I could use some advice.....

[khashka]

Should I apologize to my friend?

What happened: I have a lot of erotic art on my walls. Some of it might be disturbing to some people - S/m images, fetish images, a series of photos of naked women who've had mastectomies (because I find their absolute assurance, in spite of the trauma they've suffered, inspiring. They know they are beautiful. And they are)

So I had to have some workmen come in. My friend told me I should remove all that stuff first. I told him I'd burn in hell before I did - it's my home. And we got into an argument.

So which of us is wrong?

Khash.

[GOPisEvil]

1. It's YOUR home.

If the workmen have an issue with it, they can take it up with you.

[Shell Beau]

2. Well it would be a lot of work taking all of that down I am sure.

Do y'all live together? Or is it your place? If y'all both live there, there needs to be some sort of compromise. If not, it's your place. Do what you like.

[KitchenWitch]

3. Without knowing everything that may have been said

I think you are in the right...you should not have to remove art from your own walls for anyone.

[WillParkinson]

4. In honesty?

Neither and both.

Yes, it's your house but your friend is also trying to protect you. This is, after all, a friends job, if so able.


Should you apologize? I'd say yes. Tell your friend that you didn't mean to come on quite that strongly but the images are important to you and explain why. Also explain that you don't care how it may appeal or not appeal to others.

Finally, ask your friend if the images make HIM uncomfortable. There may be an issue there.

[TimeChaser]

5. You're the one paying them right?

They should be able to deal with it.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I would leave the stuff up.....

And apologize to my friend.......

And let the workmen know if it bothers them, to tell you.....

And act accordingly.......


Good to see you today!


:loveya: :pals:

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. What you have on your own walls is your own damned business

If YOU aren't concerned about it, then it isnt anyone else's.

My bet?

The workmen have seen worse (If i may put it that way) and won't be offended. If they are, fuck em'.

[MissMillie]

8. It IS your home, but....

why argue about it? Just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I wouldn't apologize for your position in the argument, but I see no harm in saying that you're sorry that the discussion got out of hand.

[khashka]

13. Agree to disagree

Tried that.... that's when things got out of hand. I told him we should just agree to disagee and drop the subject. He said he would not agree to disagree and after that voices started to get raised.

Khash.

[MissMillie]

44. Well, it's hard to deal w/ someone who is being unreasonable

And it sounds as though your friend is.

Tell him that your home decor is not up for discussion. You're happy to discuss just about anything else w/ him, but since you're not going to change your mind, he's best to drop the subject.

If he can't do that, tell him that you can't see him until he is able to respect your autonomy (I think that's the right word...).

[knowbody0]

9. look at it this way

exposure to your art will enlighten and provoke. and that is what art should do.

[paul_fromatlanta]

10. It sounds like your response was rude even if you were in the right

I'd probably say something like "I want to apologize for the tone I used - it's something I feel very strongly about and I'm sorry I didn't express it better."

Now me, personally, I try to avoid involving anyone, including workers in anything erotic unless they consent so I would personally choose to deserve the area before having strangers in but that's just me. I know a lesbian couple who has been known to quickly stuff their dildo collection into the dishwasher to keep from embarrassing others.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

11. Its your home, and your art!

why should you have to sanitize your living space for people who you are paying to come work for you?

[pitohui]

16. because sexual harassment is a crime

no one here would tolerate having s/m or other sexual images put in their face on THEIR job

but it's OK for a blue collar workmen to have it shoved in his face because you are paying him?

that is a damn ugly power play

if it were workWOMEN employed in the home, would you have answered the question in the same way? or would you consider that women have a right to be respected & not to encounter such images in the workplace

fair is fair, right is right

i enjoy a good s/m photo as much as another but it doesn't mean i'm going to do a desperate housewives & make the air-conditioning repairdude look at it

that's just plain creepy and wrong

[khashka]

18. A power play

in my own home?

Certainly it's a workplace situation but it's not the same as in an office or such - they are coming into my home. My home - get the difference?


The sexual harrassment issue is a total non-starter : I wasn't asking anyone to fuck me in order keep their job. It just seemed to me that if you go into someone's home (even as part of your job) you might find things there that are offensive in some way.

You do not have a right to not be offended.

Khash.

[hunter]

23. In my own working experience, it's a non-issue.

I've worked for household moving companies and as a repair person.

A person's home is their castle, and any other attitude by the working man or woman would be unprofessional. Occasionally you will see things that you think are "creepy and wrong" but that's part of the job.

Crawling under a house to retrieve a dead animal, or repairing a toilet that hasn't been cleaned for years, that's icky.

Whatever argument is going on here has little to do with the working people.

[Dora]

12. Workmen, not children.

Leave the art on the walls, for chrissake. It's your house, and you can display what you wish. We choose to take ours down, however, but it's not to protect the sensitivities of workmen.

We have one display of "erotic" art in our bathroom. It's nothing too too, only a series of four reproduced Victorian nudie postcards in a frame.

But, we take this down each week when my husband has drum students coming to the house for lessons. We are not interested in having little Jordan telling his family at dinner about the naked ladies on Mr. D's bathroom wall.

[pitohui]

14. do you really want to know?

in your heart you prob. already know it is rude & hurtful to stick images of mastectomy victims in the face of someone who is not prepared to see that

how do you know yr workmen don't have a wife, a sister, or a mother w. breast cancer, how do you know the pain you may bring to them by something that is just a work of art to you

i do not choose to be deliberately uncaring & hurtful to ppl who enter my home, there may be art that is of a edgy nature but it is not shoved in the faces of visitors or in the faces of WORKERS who should not have to see those images while they are WORKING

erotica is something private, to be shared w. yr friends, lovers, yr fellow art lovers

it should never be twisted into something ugly to hurt people who are not prepared for those images

this is why courteous ppl put "graphic" in the header before posting potentially upsetting images

[skygazer]

20. People who work in others' homes see a lot of things

And expect to. My SO does home remodels and sees much of peoples' private lives. It's part of his job and he doesn't personalize it. That's professionalism. If women were greeting him at the door naked or men were propositioning him, that would be an issue. Their art is not.

Personally, I find it rather offensive that you find images of women who've had mastectomies rude, uncaring and hurtful and wonder why you focus on that rather than the OP's mention of S/M.

[supernova]

31. Wow! Been around ill people much?

rude & hurtful to stick images of mastectomy victims in the face of someone who is not prepared to see that

There is nothing rude or hurtful aboutmastectomy scars. It's part of life, sorry to say.

I'm not sure I want to be around people who want to be protected from something that is all too real, therefore beautiful.

[khashka]

36. Agreed!

I keep them on the wall because those women know they are beautiful and you can see their beauty. As someone dealing with a disability, I often feel self-conscience and ugly, unwantable, undesirable, slightly less less than human - and those images inspire me.

Khash.

[supernova]

37. Did you ever read The Velveteen Rabbit?

In it is a character called The Skin Horse. His story is all about how he is dragged around and played with until his fur fell off, he lost an eye, stitches popped out... loved to death basically by the kid. :D.

That part of the book is all about how stuffed toys long to become so loved that they become real to their kids, not just a toy someone bought.

I often think about that story and scars. How at our most vulnerable basically, we become the most lovable.

:hug:

[khashka]

40. Fuck yes!

I have a very special copy just three feet away from me. My first really serious girlfriend gave it to me. She was not pretty, she was stocky, wall-eyed, coarsely haired. You might even call her ugly. (Which was tragic because her siblings were very good looking,) And I was gay. (And though gay and geeky I had many choices -I chose her)

She was also devastatingly intelligent, loving and had a wicked sense of humour. I loved her, I still do.

She inscribed it "one day you may understand this".

Oh, I understood it already.... which is why I chose to be with her...(She made herself so vulnerable, believed no one would really love her- how could you not fall in love?)


So I keep that copy of the Velvetteen Rabbit....


Khash.

[Book Lover]

15. Your friend, but not in the way that you think

If s/he thinks that Tom of Finland-type art is the worst thing these guys have seen, well, I suggest you pry the crack pipe from his/her hands. Do you have rooms littered with dogshit? Is your toilet fuzzy with slime? Please. It's adorable that your friend thinks these guys have to be protected from your art, but it's outta hand.

[hunter]

17. "Workmen" see all sorts of stuff...

Your stuff sounds pretty tame.

The only thing I really hated when I worked in other peoples' houses was the borderline stuff, the kind of stuff that made me wonder if I should call the police or not.

Smelly bongs left out, no problem. Pictures on the walls of people having sex, no problem. Old pizza boxes and beer bottles littering the floor mixed with dirty laundry, no problem. Naked friends casually walking out of the bathroom, no problem.

It's your house.

But evidence of child abuse or neglect, well yes, a problem. Some hazardous situation that could burn down the entire building, then yes, another problem.

Of course it may depend on "community standards."

[XemaSab]

19. I'm leaning towards Pitohui's take on it

Your friend may be out of line, but I wouldn't let that end the friendship at all. Friends are free to have their own opinions.

As far as the workmen are concerned, I'd feel uncomfortable working in a house where there was graphic female (or male) porn on the walls. It doesn't sound like you have hardcore porn, but it's still something that might make the workmen uncomfortable. Perhaps take some of the more disturbing images down, and leave the less confrontational art where it is?

[skygazer]

21. Your friend is wrong

Your home is your home and sanctuary. Art is art. People who work inside peoples' homes see that sort of thing (and much worse) every day.

I like your view of the women who've had mastectomies. To survive cancer, the loss of a part of yourself that is so identified with your femininity and still have the confidence and joy of life to pose nude IS inspiring.

[Texasgal]

22. Please forgive my ignorance

but what is a "workmen"?

I am unfamiliar with this word.

[khashka]

24. OK.....

You''re just being bitchy because you can get away with it and you know it would give me a laugh. Not "a workmen" but "some workmen" - so I'm grammatically correct. One of the workmen was a workwomen, so I should have been more accurate....

workpersons - a nongender specific term for people who do some form of manual labour.


Khash.

[Texasgal]

25. Oh!

I really thought that maybe there was some other "term" used.

I usually call them "contractors" or "yard workers" etc...

I actually thought that maybe this was something geographical.

I was REALLY ignorant! Sorry, I wasn't purposely trying to mock you or anything. :)

Oh, and no need to apologize to your friend. I believe it is ridiculous to ask you such a thing! :)

[khashka]

26. Oops did I misunderstand? (Yet again?)

Maybe it is a geographical term?

I just thought you were mocking me in a friendly way. And thought it was kinda funny.

Kiss and make up? (You can mock me later on purpose if you want to.)

Khash.

[Texasgal]

27. Your okay...

And yeah...I'd be happy to kiss and make up... your a HOTTIE!!! :P

No harm done! :)

[bertha katzenengel]

28. I can't tell you whether you should apologize, but IMO he's wrong in this

it is YOUR home. If it were me, I would not take my art down, no matter what it depicted. It is MY house, and people's reactions to what's in my home is their business. And NOT MY problem.

:hi:

[supernova]

29. I don't think you're wrong khashka

It's your house; decorate it as you see fit.

If workmen are uncomfortable there, they'll let you know. And you can hire someone else.

If, otoh, you called your friend nasty names while loudly discussing this subject, then yes, you can apologize for that. But take down the pics? Never.

Oh, and for the mastectomy pics --- :yourock: (From a girl with plenty of scars from her own battles.)

[LeftyMom]

30. I think it's none of your friend's business unless you asked

However in your situation I'd offer to remove or cover the nude art when inviting the workers in, just because that sort of thing really bothers some people. I'm thinking post-it notes over the naughty bits would be much easier than taking stuff down, should it be an issue which I doubt.

[supernova]

32. Giggle

post-it notes over the naughty bits

:rofl:

[khashka]

33. roflmao

She's funny aint she? Wouldn't that actually draw attention to the naughty bits?

Khash.

[Deja Q]

34. Your home & rules. People need to learn to respect others' homes. More,

Even when they might not agree with what is put up. Or why they should care at all; the workmen are there to do a job. Period. If they mess around with something, they'd get fired in a hurry. (so take pictures beforehand. Preferably on film as it's too easy to fiddle with digital; and negatives are hard evidence that will clear you for life if need be.)

[khashka]

35. End of story....

My friend apologized for making an issue of something that was none of his business, I apologized for argueing - and neither the workman or the workwoman were offended. In fact she was very intrigued and asked many questions....

Khash.

[supernova]

38. I'm glad everything worked out

[hunter]

41. Being "right" never wins an argument with friends or lovers...

And I'm glad your visitors were not offended.

[Floogeldy]

39. You're both wrong: Never let workmen in your home.

;)

[Tsiyu]

42. Huh?

What kind of friend wants you to pretend?

Be yo big sweet self and keep the pics on the walls. Workmen see all kinds of stuff. They'll deal.

IMHO, your friend offended and insulted you.

On edit: read the whole thread and I'm glad it all worked out :)

[NMMNG]

43. It's your home, you have the right to put up whatever you want

If your friend has a problem with your artwork he has the right to not view it. He does not have the right to try to censor it. :eyes:


I had a gay friend who had artwork of naked men on his walls. Although I didn't like the pictures (because I like naked women), who the hell was I to say anything? It was his home.






edited for clarity

[Call Me Wesley]

45. Those workmen are being paid to work in your home with

the full knowledge that they might encounter objets d'art that they might find offensive. It's part of their job, and I bet they've seen a lot worse. Besides, if they're that offended, they can decline the work and let you hire real professionals to do the job.

It wouldn't be much different than one of the deeply Catholic workers here walking in and freaking out about our Buddhist altar. :shrug: