Art vs. Craft....

[WCGreen]

There are a lot of talented folks out there, entertaining us, providing a higher level of existence to us mortal being and they all should be commended...

But a lot of what we define as artistic may be just the mastering of a craft....

I give you my favorite example.....

No one wound dispute, I hope, the statement that Michael Jackson is a fine dancer, some would even say he is great....

But is his dance truly artistic, as some would have us believe...

How can you tell....

Compare him to Gene Kelley, which, by the way, I have actually heard from some, including the MGM movie That Dancing....

Gene Kelley developed, sculpted his own dance to convey his vision of emotion, pathos or joy....

Did Michael Jackson do this? I mean construct not just follow the steps...

Gene Kelley could glide from interpretive Dance to Ballet to tap and back again all in the same production number....

Did Michael Jackson do this...

I say that art can not be taught, but a craft can...

what makes a craftsman into an artist is a certain spark that takes the work to some other plane...

Now I would contend that both Mr Jackson and Mr Kelley, operating in the popular medium of their day, were fine, maybe even great craftsmen, they had to be....

But I would tell you that Mr. Jackson is no artist while Mr. Kelley certainly was....

Michael Jackson had a signature move....

Gene Kelley let his movement be the signature....

[Ready4Change]

1. Art communicates.

Creations are crafted. They can be admired, enjoyed, and critiqued.

But, to be art, they must communicate.

While I greatly enjoyed much of Jacksons dance, and I certainly think much of it looked very cool, and wondered at the skill involved, I ahve to admit that it never seemed to say anything to me. His music often did, but his dance just seemed like eye candy. Oh look. Here are his new moves.

To me, some of, but not all of, Kelly's dance communicated. Perhaps more communicated than I think (perhaps I'm "dance deaf", perhaps regarding Jacksons dance as well?) but even I heard some of what Kelly's dance tried to say.

That's my .02

[WCGreen]

2. Well put.....

I'll take at least a nickel for those thoughts...

[Ready4Change]

4. Kinda rephrased what you said, really...

I think?

:)

[WCGreen]

6. Yea, that's why I agree

I have been exposed to dance because my father loved the movement...

My mother and I could only communicate when we went to artistic events... it seemed to be the only thing we had n common...

Now I can't dance for shit, bever tried, but I find the art fabulous when done well.....

I like the communication you mentioned. GK was able to dance us a feeling....

[Moochy]

3. What about Artisan Craftsmen?

I was thinking about this very same distinction just a few days ago. I think craftsmen are artists whose product is utilitarian. Also craftsmen's products are typically bought for their aesthetic values and utility. It's certainly a continuum, between the two types of work, and maybe the difference is strictly a sociological one, marked by class distinctions, and economic vs. aesthetic motivators.

One's motivation for the work also plays a part, but not as much. Starving artists who paint stuff that sells, but the work of art is completely devoid of any inspiration seem like craftsmen. But an artisan cabinetmaker who makes fine 18th century reproduction hardwood furniture, seems more like an artist in some ways. Volition and mindset of the worker seems to be the difference here.

But ultimately since art is in the eye of the beholder, it can be seen as an arbitrary distinction for any given individual.

[no name no slogan]

7. it's like the difference between scientists and engineers

scientists work more in the theoretical, while engineers, like craftspeople,(IMHO) apply science to create useful things.

both are valuable, both have worth, and both are utterly necessary.

[WCGreen]

9. Very Very good point.......

[XemaSab]

5. A pedophile MJ may be

but nevertheless I think his dancing is artistic.

I remember back in the day there was a sense that nobody had ever really danced that way before, and he's still incredibly talented on the dance floor.

There's a huge amount of expression there, but maybe like hip-hop not everyone can see it? :shrug:

[WCGreen]

8. I see the dance and expression

But he stopped. Just stopped..

Got to a level and never really progressed, never tried anything different or new....

As far as hip hop, I find the words compelling but the music dirivative....

I listened to Def Poets on HBO the other night and felt the rhythm and the message... The thump thump of the base gets in the way of what is being said... I know that that is part of the expression, a big part, but o me it stands in the way of the true message....

[XemaSab]

10. I agree that he did stop progressing

but if you look at him now, he seems like a total physical wreck, and I don't think a lot of that is made up. He must have really put a lot of wear and tear on his body dancing so exuberantly for so long...

[WCGreen]

11. A lot of his wear and tear probably has to do with

his numerable operations....

I think he was great to watch...

But what turned me off was when he recut his angry dance on the car to placate public outrage...

An artist would never do that....

[XemaSab]

12. It's true

the man's a complete freak, and it's hard to say where the man stops and the freak begins.