Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?

[Sean Reynolds]

Poll question: Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?

Over on another board I populate there is a debate going about the Confederate Flag because someone is using it as their icon. I myself do not find the flag offensive, because I believe it represents more than just slavery. I think people easily forget that the AMERICAN flag flew over a nation when most of its government officials condoned racism, slavery and hatred...yet not too many people find that flag offensive.

To me the Rebel Flag is one that represents the heritage of the south. Yes some have associated it with slavery, but I believe it's much more than that. The flag was adopted to rebel against the northern state NOT just because of slavery, but because of economic oppression.

I think people quickly forget how poor the south was because of the monopoly the north had on the US government. That, more than anything, pushed the south to rebel against the north.

So it begs the question, IS the confederate flag a tool of hate, or more just a flag representing more than just slavery? Do you find it offensive?

[Zuni]

1. No, it is not offensive to me.

If you see it as just slavery and the KKK it is offensive. If you see it as a Battle color that men died under, then it is different.
It was never the actual flag of the Confederacy. It was a Battle Standard that regiments marched and died under.

[xultar]

18. True, but it signifies that those troops were dying trying to keep

the racist status quo in effect.

So,

those poor suckers were dying to keep my ancestors as property.

Those poor suckers died under those colours to keep my ancestors as sexual slaves that they could rape as they saw fit.

Those poor suckers died under those colours to continue to rip my ancestors families apart so they could be sold.

Those poor suckers died under those colours to continue to be able to beat and lynch my ancestors for wanting to be free.

So yeah anyone who would fight under any colour to keep the fore-mentioned in effect is a colour that I offends me.

[Xithras]

56. The KKK destroyed it

First off, I have to point out that the Beauregard Battle Flag wasn't even an officially adopted symbol of the CSA. It was a hastily developed standard cludged together after a general accidentally fired on friendly troops during the first battle of Manassas, because the official CSA flag and the USA flag were similar in design and easily confusable in the dust and smoke of a battlefield. It wasn't "officially" anything more than a square standard carried by soldiers to keep their own allies from gunning them down. It should also be pointed out that a real Beuregard Battle Flag was a 4' by 4' square designed to be carried by soldiers on a pole. There was NEVER a rectangular CSA battle flag and the Stars & Bars was NEVER placed on a flagpole during the entire history of the confederacy. People who fly the flag as a demostration of their "heritage" are actually flying a relatively recent invention.

The KKK, however, has destroyed the historical relevance of the flag the same way the Nazi's destroyed the Swastika. When the KKK started burning out and lynching blacks, they looked for a symbol and took up the old battle flag as a standard. The Stars & Bars stood sentry while thousands of blacks were chased from their homes and countless hundreds were lynched, raped, and murdered by white racists who waved it as their banner. We can debate all day whether it's a symbol of slavery, but it's undeniable that it's become a symbol of the KKK. Maybe someday, hundreds of years from now, that symbolism will recede and it will simply become a historical curiosity once more, but not in our lifetimes. Today the Stars & Bars is too closely associated with the KKK and its atrocities to be displayed by any reasonable, non-racist person outside of the context of a historical display. It is offensive.

[billbuckhead]

2. The south rebelled because they believed in slavery

and the economic system that went with it.

[Zuni]

7. The people with the power and money did

but very few southerners actually owned slaves and there was a lot of hostility among the poor folk towards the rich planters, who were exempted from fighting

They were led to believe they were fighting for a noble cause. The people whose interests they were really defending lied to them and stayed at home

[Sean Reynolds]

8. It wasn't just that.

The south was in economic crisis because of how the north controlled most of the nation. The south, before the split, was a VERY poor nation. Whereas the north had many large economic centers, the south had hardly any and the cities were spread so thin that the direct economic benefit was not felt throughout the region. Trade was another major issue and the growth pattern of the south lagged well behind the north.

It was more than just slavery.

[Zuni]

17. the south's lack of development was because of slavery

you can't have an economic system when the main labor force do not get paid.
In the South, slavery created a feudal oligarchy. The slaves and the white subsistence farmers had no money.

The South was doomed anyway. Their system left them far behind the north.

[Sean Reynolds]

34. It was more than that.

The south lacked any big port cities, whereas the north had most of them. Plus the south's economy was built around cotton and when other nation's began finding ways of getting cotton outside of the southern US, trade was cut and their economy tanked.

[Zuni]

43. The South has plenty of deepwater ports

Norfolk, Virginia
Mobile, Alabama
Charleston, South carolina
New Orleans, Louisiana
Gulfport, Texas
Biloxi, Mississippi

there are many more, but that is all i can think of right now.


Alot of Cotton was shipped from the South directly to England and France, which is why those countries supported the Confederacy unofficially

That is why the 'Anaconda' blockade strangled the southern economy

[xultar]

3. Yes, and the new kindler gentler replacement - the SC State Flag.

As a kid I used to have nightmares that the KKK was gonna burn a cross in my yard and when they lit the fire they were saluting the CF flag.

[ewagner]

4. It depends on the context

If I see it at a Civil War Battleground or flying over an Southern Historic Site, then, no, it's not offensive, it's historic in nature.

If I see a big-assed flag flying from the back of a hopped-up pickup truck, driven by a teen-aged boy,I'm more likely to take a dim view of it.....

Mostly, I'm indifferent.....

[Zuni]

10. that is a good point

In a museum or at a historic site or if a re-enactment is going on, then it is part of our history

When the KKK pull it out, then it is evil

[ewagner]

19. More than that even.....

I was raised in Florida and it really pissed me off when the Confederate Flag was used by ANYBODY as a symbol of defiance or rebellion......

Oh yeah, one more thing, through 1965, the entire student body stood when the band played Dixie

[auburngrad82]

5. It's not the flag, per se, but what the rednecks that worship it have made

it into. In the context of the current politics surrounding the flag, it's a racist symbol. People say it's about history. If it were just a flag I would agree. But people have turned it inot more than an historical symbol. Georgia's flag didn't even have the Confederate flag incorporated into their state flag until integration. That makes it a racial statement. It's all about race now.

[Richardo]

6. One more time....

Heritage


Hate

That's it as far as I'm concerned. IF it's REALLY heritage you're honoring, you'd use the CSA's national flag, not the battle flag.

[Sean Reynolds]

12. I agree to a point.

I think the average person does not know of the CSA flag, so they obviously believe the battle flag is the 'confederate' flag. Which just isn't the case. I think that's why it's been adopted by today's generation -- NOT because of hate, but because they feel it represents their heritage. In the end, they're misinformed.

[Richardo]

16. As one of the 'six flags over Texas' they always use the CSA flag

And you don't hear a peep. If they used the rebel flag, however... :nuke:

[Sean Reynolds]

29. I think people need to be informed.....

I honestly don't believe most people that have the confederate flag in their back window are racists. I honestly believe they just don't fully understand the history of the flag and have adopted it because it's their heritage, ya' know?.

[Eagle_Eye]

9. It identifies who the idiots are. Saves me the trouble of having

to find out they are an idiot the hard way

[GoddessOfGuinness]

35. Good point...

I hadn't thought of it that way before. It's kind of like a scarlet letter, isn't it?

[CubsFan1982]

11. Rebellion is Treason.

The flags of the Confederacy represent treason at its lowest form. I see bumper stickers with the CSA flag saying "Heritage, not Hatred". To me it's simple; it's "Treason, not Tradition". They don't fly the swastika in Germany, do they?

[Sean Reynolds]

14. Actually you do find areas where they fly the swastika.

But we're not talking about Germany.

[CubsFan1982]

22. Not in front of the state capitol. n/t

[Zuni]

26. good point

[northzax]

36. and coincidentally

what do you figure the correlation between use of swastikas and use of the CBF is? how many people who use swastikas also use CBFs?

hmm...

[Zuni]

Go to Bavaria and Austria

lots of neo-Nazis there. Lots.

[Spider Jerusalem]

33. Rebellion = treason...

So America was founded by traitors. Too bad Cornwallis didn't crush the rebellion and that Washington, Jefferson, et al. weren't drawn and quartered for high treason against the Crown, eh?

[northzax]

38. you know what the difference between revolution and rebellion is?

revolutionaries win. rebels lose. such is the difference between Simon Bolivar and Zapata.

[CubsFan1982]

41. History is written by the winners, dude.

Besides, the colonists and the Southerners rebelled for entirely different reasons. The colonists rebelled against abuses of power by the King and Whitehall; the South rebelled to retain their "institutions", namely, slavery and the captive labor economic system. Two entirely different things.

[Spider Jerusalem]

54. Not really for such different reasons.

Some of the SAME economic reasons, actually. The colonists rebelled in part because of tariffs on importation of goods designed to economically benefit the British Empire (the tariff on sugar from the French West Indies, for instance), which isn't so terribly different from Southern resentment of tariffs that had the aim of benefiting Northern industry. Slavery was a great and terrible wrong, but it was NOT the only cause of the war.

[spunky]

13. I used to be indifferent, but

I live in Mississippi, and around the time of our vote as to whether or not to change the state flag. I had the opportunity to hear my boss (who is african american, an EXTREMELY good man, and for whom I have the utmost respect) talk about his days at a recently desegregated southern university, having the confederate flag waved in his face by people who wanted him to go home. With a tear in his eye, he spoke of how, every time he sees that flag it reminds him of those days.

Yes, the flag is a symbol of history. No, you can't rewrite history, and that era should never be forgotten (lest we repeat it), but if that symbol truly upsets people, then it isn't worth flying. There are plenty of people who had that flag shoved in thier face as a symbol of hatred in the 1960s. Why make them relive that everyday? And I do mean everyday, since its still on the state flag, every time I drive past the county court house etc. I see it.

When I see someone flying it on their truck, or in front of their house, I automatically assume they are racist rednecks. Now, I realize that isn't a fair characterization, but hey, that's what the flag evokes.

I see no reason why a decent, non-racist person would want to fly it, KNOWING how much it hurts and offends others.

[Sean Reynolds]

25. I can see why your boss is coming from.

As I said in another post, it seems that over time the flag's meaning has changed. Back in the 1960s during the height of the civil rights era, it WAS a tool for hate. Today, I think it's more people not fully understanding what it means. I think most southerners feel it's the flag of the confederacy, not the flag of slavery. Someone posted the Stars and Bars, which is the REAL heritage of the south. I think the confederate flag, like the Che Guevara, has lost its meaning. When someone wore a Che shirt a while back they were said to be revolutionists. Today, it's more of a fashion statement.

I think the exact same thing has happened with the Rebel Flag.

[spunky]

40. That's the nature of symbols, their meanings constantly shift,

and they can hold multiple meanings at once. But IMO, once a symbol is used as part of such heinous hatred and violence, it becomes nothing more than a symbol of hate, period, and it can never become anything else. Like the swastika.

Yes that sucks for those who view the symbol in its original context. Its not their fault some evil morons usurped it for a bad cause, but whats done is done. I don't think the Confederate battle flag can ever mean anything buy hatred ever again.

[xultar]

32. A-MEN...if the people can be offended by the swastika why can't I

be offended by the CF flag.

Thousands of my ancestors were lynched - meaning hung, castrated, and burned alive under the battle colours of the lifestyle that those poor soldiers wanted to keep.

If they can fly the CF flag then why can't they fly the nazi flag with the swastika on it?

Both the CF and the nazi flag and swastika offend me for basically the same reasons.

[Tektonik]

15. I personally am not offended by it,

but I'm offended by pricks who display it even knowing that it easily offends other people.

[northzax]

20. which one?

the battle flag or the Flag of the CSA? it makes a difference. One stood for the ideals of the south (states rights and all that) and the other flew over armies that killed my ancestors in an unprovoked attack. I equate the battle flag with the Swastika, the Union Jack and the Rising Sun. all flew, at one point or another, over armies killing my ancestors. To see it placed on the same level as a legitimate flag of an existing entity is wrong.

the swastika flew over armies, many of which fought bravely and decently, for an abhorrent regime. Many brave and honorable Germans died in that war for their 'fatherland'. Yet you would never fly a swastika and expect your Jewish neighbor to say "eh, that's just Klaus expressing his pride in his heritage." or would you fly a swastika flag over a building in which Jews worked?

the CBF flew over armies, many of which fought bravely and decently, for an abhorrent regime. Many brave and honorable Southerners died in that war for their 'state'. And you think it's ok to fly a swastika and expect your black neighbor to say "eh, that's just bubba expressing his pride in his heritage?"

You have every right to fly any flag, or display any symbol that you want. That's in the constitution of the side that won the war (I'm sure the CSA had the same provision, right?) but just as you can't wear a swastika without people saying "god, what an ignorant, racist, anti-semitic asshole." don't display a battle flag without people saying, "god, what an ignorant, racist, slave-supporting asshole." if that's the symbol you want to send out, fly your flag proudly.

[billbuckhead]

30. On October 20, 1861, Karl Marx said the Civil war was about slavery.

"The whole movement was and is based, as one sees, on the slave question. Not in the sense of whether the slaves within the existing slave states should be emancipated outright or not, but whether the twenty million free men of the North should submit any longer to an oligarchy of three hundred thousand slaveholders; whether the vast Territories of the republic should be nurseries for free states or for slavery; finally, whether the national policy of the Union should take armed spreading of slavery in Mexico, Central and South America as its device."

<http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1861/10/25.htm>

[Sean Reynolds]

37. So?

It was more than about slavery. It was about the economics of the south and the fact that the north had more political power than any southern state.

[Zuni]

50. No

actually, the Federal government until lincoln was elected was in a large part dominated by Southern factions

The Southerners had power way out of proportion to their actual numbers.

Read Eric Foner, especially Free Soil, Free Labor, Free men.

It is an excellent history of the early Republican party, and it's anti-slavery roots. It covers alot of what you are talking about.

[northzax]

42. of course he did

he thought everything was about labour and capital.

Turns out he was wrong about somethings, wasn't he?

[Zuni]

45. good point

he believed everything was about materialism, without regard to everything else
That is why i consider marxism to be a dogma

[billbuckhead]

58. Marx was quite a political observer

Check this out. Marx musing on the American 1862 elections.

Articles by Karl Marx in Die Presse 1862



A closer analysis of the “Democratic” gains leads to an entirely different result than the one trumpeted by the English papers. New York City, strongly corrupted by Irish rabble, actively engaged in the slave trade until recently, the seat of the American money market and full of holders of mortgages on Southern plantations, has always been decidedly “Democratic”, just as Liverpool is still Tory. The rural districts of New York State voted Republican this time, as they have since 1856, but not with the same fiery enthusiasm as in 1860. Moreover, a large part of their men entitled to vote is in the field. Reckoning the urban and rural districts together, the Democratic majority in New York State comes to only 8,000-10,000 votes.


In Pennsylvania, which has long wavered, first between Whigs... and Democrats, and later between Democrats and Republicans, the Democratic majority was only 3,500 votes. In Indiana it is still smaller, and in Ohio, where it numbers 8,000, the Democratic leaders known to sympathise with the South, such as the notorious Vallandigham, have lost their seats in Congress. The Irishman sees the Negro as a dangerous competitor. The efficient farmers in Indiana and Ohio hate the Negro almost as much as the slaveholder. He is a symbol, for them, of slavery and the humiliation of the working class, and the Democratic press threatens them daily with a flooding of their territories by “niggers” a In addition, the dissatisfaction with the miserable way the war in Virginia is being waged was strongest in those states which had provided the largest contingents of volunteers.


All this, however, is by no means the main thing. At the time Lincoln was elected (1860) there was no civil war, nor was the question of Negro emancipation on the order of the day. The Republican Party, then quite independent of the Abolitionist Party, aimed its 1860 electoral campaign solely at protesting against the extension of slavery into the Territories, but, at the same time, it proclaimed non-interference with the institution in the states where it already existed legally. If Lincoln had had Emancipation of the Slaves as his motto at that time, there can be no doubt that he would have been defeated. Any such slogan was vigorously rejected.

---------snip--------------
<http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1862/11/23.htm>

[tjwmason]

70. You equate the Union Jack and the Swastika?

I know full well that my country has not always observed the highest standards of behaviour, but to put it on a par with the Third Reich (which we pretty much killed ourselves trying to destroy) makes a complete mockery of your whole argument.

We've been fighting the Spanish and the French for centuries, yet I have not the slightest problem with their flags. The War of 1812 was (in large part) an agressive war by the U.S. on British territory, yet I'm perfectly happy for people to fly the Stars and Stripes.

[northzax]

73. when listing flags my ancestors have been killed for

yes, actually.

The wars I have lost ancestors in since 1750 are: American Revolution, Civil, World War II.

if I'd a cousin on the Maine I'd throw the Spanish flag in there. I don't hate any flag. it's a piece of cloth. the UJ has almost redeemed itself.

[tjwmason]

76. Your exact quote was

I equate the battle flag with the Swastika, the Union Jack and the Rising Sun. all flew, at one point or another, over armies killing my ancestors. To see it placed on the same level as a legitimate flag of an existing entity is wrong.

Which rather implies that the Union Jack is not a legitimate flag. Whatever one may think of us British, we are certainly a country with a long history and most of it internally peaceful.

If one is dismissing flags because they (or rather their countries) took part in wars, then there is not a legitimate flag on the planet. If you are specifically considering those flags which have been involved in battle against your ancestors to be illegitimate, then, with respect, that's an irrational argument and devalues any commentary on those flags which deserve approbation.

The Swastika (in its Nazi form) represents the intentional killing of millions of Jews, gays, gypsies &c. At the lowest point of the British Empire we never descended that far.

[northzax]

78. actually since the Union Jack and the Rising Sun

are both for legitimate existing entities, I would argue that you are reading too much into that sentence. how could I imply that Japan and the UK are not currently existing entities? that doesn't make any sense at all.


ok, ok, the union jack was a joke. I promise to drink watered down tea with a spot of milk for the rest of the week.

welcome to the lounge.

[Danmel]

21. To me it says "We would if we could"

It says to me, we can't keep you as slaves, but we would if we could and don't you forget it!"'

As a caveat, let me note that I am a white Jewish woman who has always lived in the Northeast. I have family down there though and their take on it is just that- To a lot of the South Carolinians, the Battle Flag represents something they wish they still had- complete domination over Blacks (My family doesn't feel that way- they are probably the only liberal Jews in Columbia)

[underpants]

23. On a side note-3/9/1862 Monitor and Merrimac battle

http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?category=general&month=10272955&day=10272974

1862 Battle of the Ironclads


During the American Civil War, the CSS Virginia, a captured and rebuilt Union steam frigate formerly known as the Merrimac, engages the USS Monitor in the first battle between iron-fortified naval vessels in history.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. I am uncomfortable with it because of the slavery aspect, but I understand

that it doesn't necessarily stand for that to others, especially those int he south. But to me, way up here in Maine, that's the first thing that comes to mind when I see it.

[cmf]

27. Yes, offensive and here's why

I am a Black person, born and raised in the deep South. I find it offensive. Show me any Black Southerner who proudly flies this flag as a "symbol of Southern culture" and I'll show you a fool. Racists and White Supremacists have draped themselves in this flag for ages. Like it or not, it represents slavery and the desire to keep a whole group of people in bondage. The whole "it represents Southern culture" argument is BS. If anything, it only represents White Southern culture, not all Southern culture, because I don't know any Black person who would proudly fly that flag.

[trof]

57. You could try this:

If you're a southerner, adopt the reb flag as your own too.
A few Saturdays ago I was listening to NPR's hour long segment where actors or authors read short stories.
Forgive an old man's spotty memory, but all I can remember is that both the author and the reader of this one were black.

The premise: A 20-something black man from South Carolina decides "Hell, it's MY southern heritage and MY flag too!"
He bought himself a BIG pickup truck with a BIG see-through Confederate flag on the back window from a VERY perplexed bubba type.

Started to spread the word amongst family and friends that it was THEIR heritage too. Pretty soon all the black owned vehicles in town are sporting Confederate flags.

And...slowly...they begin to disappear from the rednecks cars and trucks.
I laughed until tears were rolling down my cheeks.
I'm a big believer in turning the tables.

[cmf]

60. Bwah!

Great idea! Proof positive that the White people who were flying it weren't flying it to "celebrate Southern heritage". That guy who decided to claim it as his own was pretty brave. He must have been on the receiving end of some funny looks!

[trof]

62. It was one of the best stories I've heard on the show.

The audience was howling.

[VelmaD]

66. I heard that one too...hilarious...

I particularly loved it when he was in the parking lot and the white guys started toward him in a menacing way. Some black teenagers pulled up to see what was going on. And he told them "they're just admiring my 'black power flag'". *snort*

[LostInAnomie]

28. Yeah it's about history...

... a history of thinking blacks are inferior to whites. I think trying to dress it up in that line of bullshit about "heritage" is ridiculous. I find it offensive, but still feel should be allowed people to fly it because it is their right. They just need to be upfront about the real reason they fly it.

The South was poor not because of northern economic oppression, but because the institution of slavery caused their economy to stagnate. Because of "King Cotton" they put all their eggs in one basket and never tried to develop industry. This forced more reliance on slavery and cotton. While they stagnated the rest of the world moved on.

[Blue-Jay]

31. I'm always wary when someone plays the "Southern Heritage" card.

WTF is that really supposed to mean anyhow? I know what it is that I SUSPECT is usually means...

[Sean Reynolds]

39. I don't know, what's Yankee heritage?

Or Irish heritage, or hell in my case, WESTERN heritage (I'm from Utah).

I think it's all about regional heritage because obviously this country is different socially and economically all around.

[Blue-Jay]

44. Yankee..... (sigh)

nevermind.

[Blue-Jay]

52. You know what. I will reply to this.

When have you EVER heard ANYONE speak of "Yankee heritage"? Never. That's when.

Flying a confererate battle flag? Might as well proudly display an effigy of a black man hanging from a tree, in my opinion.

[northzax]

46. well, you know what 'utah heritage' is code for, right?

let's get me some wives!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

77. Yeah, Southern Heritage is like saying the White Citizens Council

how often do you see an African-American sporting a Confederate Flag baseball cap?

[Misunderestimator]

47. Yes, Quite Offensive.

[last_texas_dem]

48. Mixed feelings

Living in an area with plenty of openly racist people, I've grown up with that flag around. When I see it, more often than not on a pick-up truck or occasionally in front of someone's house, I mainly just make a negative assessment of the person. I generally figure them to be a racist redneck; an "angry white male" type. But it doesn't really offend me personally.

I see a lot of truth in your argument re: the flag. At the same time, I don't think most of the people who take pride in the battle flag are really about "heritage." Partly I'm just cynical, but it's also the fact that all the people I've known who displayed that flag were pretty ignorant of history but were strong racists.

I've always thought the design of the Confederate battle flag was quite attractive, though; one of the best-looking flags I've seen. It sucks it's been hijacked as a racist symbol.

[RatRacer]

49. More like, "eye roll inducing"

I voted "indifferent". There are some elements of Southern pride to it that I can understand, at least from Southern whites. But how can you separate that from the darker side of what that flag stands for? The whole notion of the CSA was built on seceding from the US over the slavery issue. Yes, I know that the North was not some bastion of egalitarianism at the time. And I know there were other factors involved, but the real sticking point was this issue of slavery and no matter how you slice it, that is a dark, ugly, embarrassing, shameful blight on that flag that cannot be erased.

All that said, it mostly induces an eye roll from me. All I can think is "ignorant redneck" anytime I see someone flying one.

[johnnie]

51. I look at it as another attempt to split up everyone

This country is so split in regards to just about everything. North versus South, East coast versus West coast, State versus State, City versus City...ect.
To me that flag is just another reminder how un-united we are. But that's just typical of human nature.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

53. As a white person with ancestors who fought for the South,

I am offended by the display of the CBF, especially on government property. To me, it exemplifies the inferiority of people who never got over losing the war and continue to cling to a values system that glorifies racism.

[mark414]

55. the civil war was fought for slavery, the flag represents slavery

simple as that

i don't want to hear that heritage bullshit, or any excuses made for the cause of the war.

[DS1]

59. No, it reminds me how backwards the south can be

and makes me damn grateful to be a Taxachussett's livin-in NorthEast Cheese-Eating Paper-Readin liberal

[VelmaD]

61. As a Southerner I find it offensive...

because I know it's being used by racist whites as a slap in the face to African-Americans. It's juvenile. It's obnoxious. It's petty. And it's pathetic.

You also can't convince me that the majority of the people who try to claim it as "southern heritage" know anything more about their actual history than "we lost...grrr". :eyes:

[guitar man]

63. Something I'm curious to see

There is going to be a movie remake of "The Dukes of Hazzard" coming out this year. I wonder if the "General Lee" is still going to have the CBF on it's roof?

[Divameow77]

69. In high school (in Georgia)

A boy wore a t-shirt to school that had a rebel flag on it with the words, "You mark your X, I'll mark mine" I was offended.

[tjdee]

75. Yes it will, but they ask black students for directions...

and they have a learning experience where they learn that some people are offended by it.

Can't make that stuff up!

Yay Hollywood and their astute scripts!

[kick-ass-bob]

64. When the asshole down the street from the RBC center flies the flag

just in time for the CIAA tournament (pred. black colleges) it's pretty damned clear why he puts it up.

:grr:

[Sporadicus]

65. Antebellum Southern 'Heritage' Isn't Worthy of Pride

Name one aspect of an economy based on slavery that deserves celebration. Despite the tragic loss of life that occurred on both sides to defeat the South, the world is a better place for the Civil War having been fought. Slavery as institutionalized as it had become in the South was a threat to humanity and could not be allowed to continue. Slavery is the ultimate expression of conservatives' efforts to ensure an endless supply of cheap labor. Those who cling to symbols from that failed regime identify themselves as supportive of one of the most evil institutions the world has ever known: one that cheap-labor conservatives would revive if they had the opportunity.

[cally]

67. We fought the civil war over a century ago

We are ONE country now for better or worse. Why would I ever think it's OK for anyone to continue a division in our country? To me, it's a basis for hate and division. I cannot understand why anyone thinks it's OK to continue the fight.

Then there is the issue that the confederate flag was promoted during the civil rights fights. It was not southern heritage but whites' racism. It's a symbol of hate to me and I shun anyone who displays it.

[Lone Pawn]

68. The Confederate flag?

No. That's a flag dedicated to the idea of regional sovereignty--something the blues wouldn't mind right now. That's a flag dedicated to the idea that the South ought define the course of the South, rather than the big-money, industrial-hell North.

The battle flag? Certainly it is. It was a flag of open treason, flown over groups of traitors and turncoats shooting to kill men dedicated to defending the Constitution.

[Jeebo]

71. A flag is just a piece of cloth...

...so I voted "Indifferent." I think we lefties are inconsistent on these flag issues. We say the confederate flag is "offensive" and then we say we shouldn't pass a flag desecration amendment because the U.S. flag is "just a piece of cloth." Well, I'm consistent about this. I say the confederate flag and the U.S. flag and all other flags are just pieces of cloth. And I think it's just as silly to be "offended" by one piece of cloth that has one pattern on it as it is to get all starry-eyed and whipped up into a nationalistic fervor over another piece of cloth that has another pattern on it. That's my $.02 worth.

Ron

[tjdee]

72. I'm black--and it scares the shit out of me.

I am not offended by it. But.

If I walk into a place where there's a huge ass Confederate flag, my first instinct is to flee. The instinct can be overriden--for instance, Bo Duke was one hot piece of man and the General Lee is a hot car.

And I understand the "Southern heritage" bit, which I think is kind of silly (maybe I just don't get it), especially here in NJ. Seems very poser.

[Bridget Burke]

74. If you mean the Battle Flag: Yes.

It was specifically adopted during the Civil Rights struggle by enemies of segregation. I live in Texas & appreciate many things about the South, but not the inbred, mouthbreeding racists. (They tend to be more subtle in other parts of the country.)

Why did the North have a "monopoly'? Virginians & other Southerners helped lead the fight against England. It's unfortunate that they did not reject a way of life that led to economic stagnation & poverty for so many.

[Pithlet]

79. Offensive.

And the civil war was about slavery.

[Aristus]

80. Counter question: Can a guy who was born in Germany in 1939 or so

go around waving and displaying the Nazi Blood Flag anytime he wants without at least getting called on it once in a while? After all, it's part of his "heritage". The Nazis helped the German people overcome the economic hardships of the 1920's. Many brave young men died fighting for Germany in WWII. Nations all over Europe have had periods of anti-Semitism, and anyway, it's all in the past.

This question answers yours, I think.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

81. I've always found it offensive, but couldn't really say why

until me and my husband visited Richmond, VA a few years ago. We went into the Civil War Museum, and saw many Rebel flags. At first it didn't bother me, but after awhile I couldn't take it. I felt oppressed (no, I'm not black) and I had to leave. Symbols are potent! I live in California and you really don't see it out here. At least I haven't, in my community. But I recoil when I see photos of it. For me it's a symbol of hatred and repression.