Ms. vs Miss

[Ediacara]

Is there a difference?

[Kire]

1. It depends what the meaning of 'is' is....

I'm so snarky.

[Ediacara]

5. LOL

I'm actually writing a LTTE in response to a high schooler's letter concerning evolution. The letter writer's first name is Juniper though, and I can only imagine that that's a girl's name :-) Is Ms. or Miss a more appropriate way to refer to her?

[Kire]

7. I had a girlfriend named Juniper.

That was her real name. She's got to be 28 or 29 by now.

[Stop_the_War]

2. Ms. is only the abbreviation of "Miss"

[Pithlet]

8. I thought Ms. was "mizz"

And is different from Miss.

[Ediacara]

10. I thought that too

That Ms. was somehow different, like an abbreviation for a professional woman, but I am entirely unclear, hence the asking. And ya, the pronunciation was "miz".

[Stop_the_War]

11. Huh? I pronounce "Ms." as "Miss".

"Miz" just sounds strange.

[Ediacara]

19. I know

Which may be part of my question. I never hear anyone saying "miz" but I have been taught that Miss is pronounced "mis" and Ms. is pronounced "miz".

[mcscajun]

24. And you would be correct.

Ms. is not "miss", it's "miz".

[Pithlet]

13. I think Ms. became more popular

When the equal rights movement gained more ground, particularly in the 70's. It's stuck around, although never replaced Mrs. entirely.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. My Understanding As Well

I thought the point of that abbreviation was to have a "title" that didn't differentiate between married and unmarried women. Miss means unmarried. Mrs. means married. Ms. is neutral. I believe that was the whole point of developing this idea.
The Professor

[Misunderestimator]

32. No it's not... it is used instead of either Miss or Mrs., not abbreviation

[AlCzervik]

3. Miss generally means unmarried

Ms. can be used for unmarried or married, thats how i've always understood it.

[Flaxbee]

27. yup...

"Ms." is a way to address a woman who may or may not be married - if you don't know, and she is visibly over 16 or so when you're probably still safely in "Miss" territory, "Ms." is the way to go. Or, if you don't know who you're writing to other than that it is a woman, "Miss" can be condescending and "Mrs." is just way too presumptuous. So you use "Dear Ms. _____".

Men are "Mr." no matter what, "Ms." is the same thing, it is a way to address an adult woman without reference to her marital status. Marital status is no one's damn business, and men don't have to deal with it with the universal "Mr.".

Pronounced differently, too. Ms. is not miss, it's miz.

[shesemsmom]

31. Thats my understanding too

Ms is used by people as a way of addressing a woman if they don't know if she is married or not

[Lavender Brown]

4. Miss implies you are not married; Ms. can be either single or married

I never see things addressed to a Miss anymore, it's very old-fashioned. :shrug:

[Pithlet]

9. It's gone the way of "Master" for unmarried men.

Everyone is pretty much Mr for men, and Mrs. or Ms. for women, at least in formal address.

Edited to add that I don't think this applies for little girls. I just realized I've never heard anyone refer to a 6 year old girl as Ms. :silly:

[Stop_the_War]

14. You mean "Mister" don't you?

[Pithlet]

17. No

You never hear it anymore, but it used to be common to refer to unmarried men, particularly young men, as Master. Master Thomson, for example. There used to be an old joke about unmarried men who's last name is Bater.

[mcscajun]

21. Master only applied until a boy came of age, married or not.

On reaching his majority, he became a Mister.

[Pithlet]

25. Oh, I didn't know that.

I did know that Master referred mainly to young boys and not older adults, and now I know why :)

[Lavender Brown]

15. I rarely address married women as Mrs. anymore

Unless they are older women who called themselves that when they wrote or called me before (lots of correspondence in my job).

[tjwmason]

34. I have several friends who hate being called Ms

The married ones insist on Mrs., and the unmarried on Miss.

Ms has two main uses in Britain, in cases where marrital status is uncertain; and in cases where a married woman has kept her maiden-name. Ms is used widely by businesses in junk-mail and the like; but when I worked in a service industry most new clients would give their title as either Mrs. or Miss.

[yvr girl]

6. Yes

Miss is someone who is single. Ms could be someone who either married or single. Very few women choose Miss unless they are fairly young.

[4_Legs_Good]

12. I think Ms. is a women's lib deal

which means to show that a woman is not defined by whether she's married or not. Any woman can be addressed as Ms. just like any man can be addressed as Mr.

I would always use Ms. It's a cool "word" IMO, and shows a bit more respect. If she's really young, though, Miss might work.

david

[ElectroPrincess]

43. I was part of that "women's lib movement" and we may have to unite

again if the fundies get their way and Roe v. Wade is overturned. Why? Well criminalizing abortion is just the start of the assault on women. Next will be outlawing contraception except for married ladies and making it harder for an abused woman to seek a divorce.

Viva Women's Lib!

[Book Lover]

16. Yes

Miss is for any unmarried woman. Ms. is for any woman.

Interestingly, Master is used for young boys, but is dropped for teenage males; Mister is used for men 18 and over. So men from the ages of about 10-18 are technically not addressed by any title.

[Ediacara]

18. I thought that Esquire or some other obscure word was used for male teens

[ElaineinIN]

22. Esquire

is commonly used for attorneys. I'm sure there is some reason for that (who'se got an emily post handy) If you use esq. after your name, though, you don't get a Mr. or Ms. ... just like you wouldn't say Dr. John Smith, M.D.... its either Dr. John Smith or John Smith, M.D.

[tjwmason]

30. The lawyer connotation is American

In Britain if there is any restriction placed, it is the old-style that it is for a property owner - most of the time it is simply used as a formal form of address for adult men. It is also a tad old-fashioned.

[Lavender Brown]

23. Esquire was a term for men of the gentry (squires)

now it is used mostly by lawyers.

[mcscajun]

20. I've been using Ms. since my first divorce.

And that was in 1974, certainly the heyday of the use of Ms. I haven't been a Miss since 1971, and without a Mr. I certainly can't be a Mrs. anymore.

No, it's not anything to do with Miss, for which there is no abbreviation, and in fact, while it uses a period, it's not an abbreviation at all; it simply stands alone. Most consider it a blend or a cross between Miss and Mrs.

It's the perfect prefix that gives nothing away about your marital status or lack of same, and particularly convenient when you work in a retail-like environment that requires you to display your name to the public on a nameplate or nametag.

[Zenlitened]

26. "Miss" is for children. "Ms." is for adults.

And yes, as others have noted, "Ms." was introduced by feminists, in the thinking that a woman's marital status was not relevant in business settings.

Plus, calling a grown woman "Miss" is just weird. I'm 40 years old, never married -- much closer to the "old crone" end of the spectrum than the "girls" end! :D

[eyesroll]

28. I'm 29, soon to be divorced, and I can't fathom being "Miss" again.

I am changing my name back, but I will be a Ms., if I have anything to do with it.

Actually, just call me by my first name...that's fine, too.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. Nobody knows for certain whether you are married or not if you are either

a "Mr." or a "Ms." That's the whole point of the title.

With Miss and Mrs., it's implied a woman's status is predominantly determined by her marriage status. By "neutering" the title to one equivalent to a man (who's status is rarely determined by whether he's married or not), women attained more respect symbolically.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[DelawareValleyDem]

40. What's the proper title for Grovelbot?

[Skittles]

35. if anyone called me MISS I would have to kick their ass

nt

[ProfessorGAC]

37. Excuse Me, Miss. Did You Say Something?

I just could NOT resist!
The Professor

[Skittles]

38. lol.......................Professor

:hi:

[Redstone]

39. This is not a new discussion...back in the 1880s

Ambrose Bierce wrote a newspaper essay about why there was no separate honorific for married men...he suggested "mush."

Redstone

[Bridget Burke]

41. "Mistress" is the basis for all these social titles.

Originally, it was the female version of "Master"--an indication of social--not marital--status. The abbreviations "Mrs." and "Miss" eventually assumed their current definitions. "Mistress" also assumed a new meaning!

Interesting tidbit: Contrary to assumption, Ms. was not invented by modern feminists. Mario Pei, in his 1949 The Story of Language, attributed the term to the women's movement of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Its first recorded use in the United States was on the tombstone of Sarah Spooner, who died in Plymouth, Massachusetts, in 1767.

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/women/html/wh_024200_ms.htm

Personally, I find "Ms." quite useful.

[Tafiti]

42. From Dictionary.com:

Usage Note: Many of us think of Ms. or Ms as a fairly recent invention of the women's movement, but in fact the term was first suggested as a convenience to writers of business letters by such publications as the Bulletin of the American Business Writing Association (1951) and The Simplified Letter, issued by the National Office Management Association (1952). Ms. is now widely used in both professional and social contexts. As a courtesy title Ms. serves exactly the same function that Mr. does for men, and like Mr. it may be used with a last name alone or with a full name. Furthermore, Ms. is correct regardless of a woman's marital status, thus relegating that information to the realm of private life, where many feel it belongs anyway. Some women prefer Miss or Mrs., however, and courtesy requires that their wishes be respected.