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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:26 AM
Original message
Keith Olbermann despises "The Gates" outside his window...
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 08:36 AM by Skinner
I'M NOT WILD ABOUT SAFFRON
New York - February 12, 2005 - 10:35pmET

Theyre uglier than I thought.

The Gates -- the artist Christos long-planned installation of 7500 orange portals in Central Park here -- are now complete. They, as The New York Times put it, blossomed today, as rectangles of similarly-hued fabric were draped from each of the gates that sit astride all of the parks 23 miles of pedestrian walkways.

They look like crap.

The great thing about being an artist, of course, is that you can call anything you make -- from $21,000,000 worth of gates to a 25-cent phone call -- art. And if anybody disagrees with you, you can call them a philistine.

Christo previously filled a California valley with yellow umbrellas and once dressed up the Reichstag in aluminum fabric (fortunately for all of us, he did this in 1995, not earlier). He claims to have been planning this newest version of public art since 1979.

Evidently he rushed it. Even before the fabric was installed this morning, the gates looked like over-sized track and field hurdles that the artists optimistically identified as "saffron" in color. They are, in fact, screaming psychedelic paint orange: the same awful color they make road cones and those stupid barrel things that block off traffic lanes. As I said on Countdown Thursday, they look like a terrible mistake of some sort -- like somebody was trying to build something and ran out of money.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

-- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/ -- KEITH OLBERMANN
----------------------------------------------------
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. I can't believe people think they look good. They're ASS UGLY.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Literally
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. A lot of opinion on them over this way
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. When I looked at the photo...
I thought to myself, "Give the end one a shove and they'll all fall down." :D
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. LOL! It never occured to me what a GREAT domino cascade it would make!
Thanks, Archae -- your comment made my morning! :thumbsup:

--------------
<< When I looked at the photo...
I thought to myself, "Give the end one a shove and they'll all fall down." >> Archae
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here are some photos
Christo with Jeane-Claude


And the Gates themselves
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you Keith!
Christo is an "artist" like Bush is the "president." :P
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. God damn....
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I may be too nerdy not to be a philistine....
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I just wonder...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 04:16 AM by Archae
How does this compare to my black velvet Elvis painting? :eyes: :P
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Shredr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. We were discussing the weird umbrellas from Calif earlier...
Let's hope one of these gates doesn't also kill someone by falling on her head.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. LOL..I remember that...and Cristo is schmaltz!
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. first I have seen or heard of The Gates
frankly, they are hideous
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. I prefer poker-playing dogs.
Man, that ALWAYS cracks me up.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. That is EXACTLY what I was about to write...
Literally, word for word

creepy :scared:
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. I've hated EVERY installation Christo has done.
BUT - They're all mercifully temporary, and the guy's got to make a living...
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. Soledad O'Brien on CNN's "American Morning" hates them, too.
Her co-hosts were all early-morning chipper, saying that they "couldn't wait" to see them, but she just kept shaking her head and saying they could tell her about it. We can depend on Keith to tell us the truth, but it was amusing to see an early morning anchor react this way, LOL! They must be awful!:puke:
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Just ONE of the reasons...
... we love him so much!

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:


-----------
<< We can depend on Keith to tell us the truth . . . >> Rhiannon
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Thanks, I know, he's the best!
He is one cable news anchor who refuses to be intimidated by anything or anyone. He's always been that way, and paid dearly for it, but he refuses to change for anybody. And the powers-that-be know it. And I think that they also know that he has a core audience who is loyal to him because of this, and because of his irreverence, and they aren't going to mess with success. And the fact that he does it all with humor doesn't hurt. It makes him a lot more fun to listen to and this blunts the sharp edges of his straight talk.:-)
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Rhiannon, please join our...
week-nightly KO appreciation-fest, over in the Election Results forum <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203>!
What you've written here tells me you're a natural fit!

We blog along while "Countdown" is on -- at 8 o'clock and during the re-air at midnight. I just recently joined myself. It's an extraordinary group -- joyous, funny and serious, all at the same time, just like its inspiration KO!

Look for the subject line containing secret code "KOEB." I'm sure you'll find the company compatible. :-)

--------------
<< He is one cable news anchor who refuses to be intimidated by anything or anyone. He's always been that way, and paid dearly for it, but he refuses to change for anybody. And the powers-that-be know it. And I think that they also know that he has a core audience who is loyal to him because of this, and because of his irreverence, and they aren't going to mess with success. And the fact that he does it all with humor doesn't hurt. It makes him a lot more fun to listen to and this blunts the sharp edges of his straight talk. >> Rhiannon
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Thank you, WhirlyGirl , I'm honored!
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 05:34 PM by Rhiannon12866
I found the threads. I'll join you when I can. It's hard enough to find what you're looking for, on DU, these days, so I appreciate the heads up and the invite.:-)

Keith Olbermann is a breath of fresh air, something rare on cable news, during these dark times of RW "spin" and the likes of James Dale Guckert shaping the news and the opinions that we hear. My friend became a great fan of his when he was still doing sports, and we agree that the man hasn't changed. He won't change for anybody, which is part of his charm. His show would be more accurately described as "the no-spin zone."
:evilgrin:

Thanks for including me, WhirlyGirl! I'll look forward to seeing you all in the Election Results forum. I'm sure I will enjoy the company!":D

Rhiannon:hi:

on edit: still cannot spell porn czar's real name
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You write about KO...
BEAUTIFULLY, Rhiannon!

Can't wait to read your future contributions to our 5-days-a-week discussions! :-)
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Thank you. I've watched his show for a long time
And I am still constantly pleasantly surprised. I probably started paying more attention than I would have, otherwise, because my friend, who is a fan of his from his days in sports, is rarely is able to catch his show now, because of her hours. So I try to give her the high points, when I can catch them, because I know she misses it and will appreciate them.:-)

Thanks for the compliments, WhirlyGirl. Now I have a reputation to live up to! Yikes!
:scared:
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. I wish I could see just ONE old SportsCenter clip...
... or hear his radio broadcasts from the days immediately following 9/11 which people in NY found so comforting. Where are the amateur achivists when you really need them??!!!

You could tape the shows for your friend -- or if she's online, new show segments are made available daily at the Countdown site, for when she's jonesing! -- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/

-------------
<< my friend, who is a fan of his from his days in sports, is rarely is able to catch his show now, because of her hours. So I try to give her the high points, when I can catch them, because I know she misses it and will appreciate them. >> Rhiannon
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. You should meet my friend! You'd have a lot to talk about, LOL!
My friend could tape the shows, herself. She used to watch it, later at night, after she got home from work, but they changed the schedule, and it's now rebroadcast too early.:-(

However, I had no idea that new show segments were available online! Are these videos? I will often send her his daily blog, if he mentions something that I know she wouldn't want to miss, but I'll also send her this link! Incredible, she'll love it! Thanks!:hi:
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. I never get tired of talking about KO...
... guess I'm what you might call a Keithevangelist. I want everyone to know how amazingly cool he is. You'll meet more in the KOEB tomorrow nite! :-)

Hope your friend enjoys that website. They keep stuff up there for quite a while, so she shouldn't miss too much.
Also archived there, in addition to videos from previous shows, are:
~ Bloggermann (Keith's blogs)
~ "Countdown" show transcripts
~ e-mail from fans (you have to hunt for this: the link to it is in the Bloggermann page margin)
~ Way to sign up for the newsletter

She could drop by the KOEB sometime, too, if she has a minute.
Joy! Wisdom! Hilarity! Pictures! and lots of these --

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Does the man have a fan club, or is this it? LOL!
I agree, Keith is anything but not cool!
:yourock:

Thanks for all the helpful info. I'll pass it on. I'm aware of the blog, and have often passed that on, if it's something my friend shouldn't miss. But I will pass on the link to the website, as well. I know I've visited it, before, but was not aware of all it had to offer, or maybe some of these are new features.:shrug:

I'm sure my friend would love to join us, but she's working during those hours. However, I'll make it a point to pass anything relevant on. She'd also be a perfect fit for DU, and I've tried to convince her to register, since we discuss much the same things we do on DU, and she felt, as I did, about the election, but she says that she just doesn't have the time, with the hours she works. But, who knows, maybe this will convince her.:-)

Looking forward to seeing what KOEB is all about, either at eight or twelve, and I particularly enjoy seeing pictures! Of most anything!:D

Thanks, again
Rhiannon:hi:
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Others have tried, but no official imprimatur has ever been bestowed...
... so I'd say this is the closest thing.

Heck, this is BETTER than a fan club because there are political and social issues underlying our appreciation of KO, in addition to our sort of dotty adoration of the man himself. One couldn't exist without the other.

Been real nice making your acquaintance, Rhiannon.
See you tomorrow PM. :hi:

--WG
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. I was wondering why you didn't try to start a DU group, like the one for
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 01:36 AM by Rhiannon12866
"The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," but I can see, with the code word and semi-secrecy, not to mention watching it more-or-less together, this is probably much more fun.
:party:

And yes, I see the relationship between admiring Keith, and the political and social issues that he tackles head-on, which is at the core of why we all joined DU. So, I get it. And I'm looking forward to hearing others' reactions to his comments. I sometimes have company when I watch it, but not always. And this is not the kind of show that you want to watch alone since it's the type of thing that you want to discuss. A kind of "did you hear that?!" reaction.
:wow:

I'm also going to have to make it a point to send in questions. I never think of it until the Friday quiz portion starts. This week, I had a question that I wish I had asked, but I was sure that somebody else must have thought of it. It's 50-50 whether he would have gotten it, since he kept getting tripped up by it, but, hell, I've discussed it to death here, and I had to edit two posts, just today, to correct my spelling. I'm sure that you already know my question: "What is 'Jeff Gannon's' real name?" That it wasn't asked disturbed me.
:evilfrown:

It's been nice making your acquaintance, as well, WG. Sleep well and I'll see you on the board.
Rhiannon :hi:

edited for punctuation
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
88. Was keeping an eye out for you last night...
It was a pretty good KOEB session. Couple of nice pics posted!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x326621

I was having some problems with our new "high speed" (read, LOW speed) connection. Don't know why it was so balky.

So I'm back to dial-up today. What a disappointment.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. Who cares? It is just a statement by one artist.
It is only to make one think and no one really has to like it. Frankly you do not even have to think about it. Any new thing in art has been a shock to people, even what we think as the 'great' art in history.All have been a shock.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I wonder what exactly he is trying to say with it?
Looks like a bunch of orange things to me...makes me think violent thoughts
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
71. I have no idea what he's trying to say, either
And it also says nothing to me. Maybe I'd feel differently if I saw it in person, but I don't think so.:shrug:

All I know is what I saw on "60 Minutes." He's wanted to do this particular "project," or whatever, for over 20 years, but could never get permission before. But Mayor Bloomberg is a big fan, so he got the go-ahead immediately. He said that he won too easily. Apparently, a big part of it for him is the enjoyment of taking on the-powers-that be.
:evilgrin:

So he resurrected his old drawings, and made some new ones, for what he envisioned as the finished product. That's how he makes his money, which finances these endeavors. Obviously, he can't sell the finished product, but certain people will pay top money for his drawings, and that's how he makes the millions he needs to finance these pieces of "art.":shrug:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. But many are FORCED to see it. You can't ignore it if you want to.
It reeks, IMHO. Fortunately, I don't have to see it.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. I would like to see Christo wrapped in saran wrap head to toe.
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 07:33 AM by 8643
I think the ensuing convulsions would be very artistic ending in a peaceful stillness. I still think of the person killed by one of his umbrellas that was caught by the wind in California.

The best thing about his work is that it is temporary.

But that is just my opinion.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Not a bad idea
I think a taser gun should be involved somehow :evilgrin:
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. They can call that saffron all day long if they want to but it's
ORANGE. And ugly-ass orange at that.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Yes, and it comes in lovely tints now, too,
Don't think they have orange, though. Damn.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. The umbrellas in California were wonderful.
Lack of imagination knows no party lines.
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mr_hat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. I agree. I'm floored at this outpouring of derision of Christo's art. n/t
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Doesnt seem to bother Christo one hoot.
He & Jeanne-Claude are having a rollicking ol' time.
There are really very few people I would want to be inside
their heads, but Christo is one of them. For a little
while.... Once upon a time....
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. not in his front yard, huh? not one of keiths best moments.
he doesn't hope people will feel sorry for him that his park view will be different for two weeks in the dead of winter, does he?
kinda silly all these people are having violent reactions to the installation when they haven't actually seen it.
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Hi, bettyellen!
Please don't be too cross with us philistines, B-E! :scared:
I know it's irritating when you like an artist and other folks don't quite "get" him. You know -- like a lot of people on the right have had VIOLENT REACTIONS to Keith, and they've never seen him, either!

Although I think in this case we've had enough of a taste of Christo's latest effort to constitute the basis for an opinion -- and all I can say is that I keep picturing a giant hedgehog hurtling thru those wickets like in Disney's "Alice in Wonderland"!

------------
<< kinda silly all these people are having violent reactions to the installation when they haven't actually seen it. >> bettyellen
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. 100% agreement here.
orange is the ugliest colour in the crayon box.

this installation is for shit.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
76. That's not saffron
This is saffron
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well, I (heart) KO,
but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Although I haven't seen this particular work in person, I really like the photos I've seen, and I really like Christo.

It's about seeing a familiar place in a new way.... it's about doing something which has many interpretations -- and KO's reaction is certainly one interpretation, and I imagine not an unexpected or uncommon one. People get so hung up about what "art" is or is not -- I make art out of old plumbing fixtures and pipes. Is it interesting, does it make you think, is it satisfying? It's all about the thing in and of itself, about just taking it on its own merits. I'm neither hip nor particularly artistic -- I just take the thing for what it is.

Hmmm, I may have to write KO a note about this... :)
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Hi, crispini!!
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 02:41 PM by WhirlyGirl
I didn't know you were an artist. That's cool!

I think you should send that note. Keith is very receptive to differing opinions and I'm sure he'd enjoy your comments if they are similar to the reasonable case you've presented here.
Who knows... you might even get a reply!

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

----------
<< It's about seeing a familiar place in a new way.... it's about doing something which has many interpretations -- and KO's reaction is certainly one interpretation, and I imagine not an unexpected or uncommon one. People get so hung up about what "art" is or is not -- I make art out of old plumbing fixtures and pipes. Is it interesting, does it make you think, is it satisfying? It's all about the thing in and of itself, about just taking it on its own merits. I'm neither hip nor particularly artistic -- I just take the thing for what it is.
Hmmm, I may have to write KO a note about this... >> crispini
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Ah, but I'm not an artist.
No training, no experience, no galleries or exhibits, nothing that would remotely qualify me to be an "artist." I just like fiddling around with metal and a plumber's torch. People get so hung up on what the meaning of "art" is and what an "artist" is ... I'm not buying in on that (and that's part of I think what's hanging up KO on Christo.)

I wish there was another word for "people who like making interesting visual things," because that's totally what I see in Christo, and (in a very tiny way) where I'm at.
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. If you enjoy experimenting...
with images in order to evoke responses in other people and stimulate discussion -- or even if you do it only because you find satisfaction in making what you imagine a reality -- then in my book, that makes you an artist, crispini!

Regarding KO -- I believe him when he states his objections to the Central Park exhibit: He loves the natural beauty of the park and that's why he chose that specific place to live. It's like a personal affront to him to have the view obstructed or cluttered in any way.
I totally understand his reaction, and I also understand yours. But hey -- I'm a Pisces.

------------
Ah, but I'm not an artist.
No training, no experience, no galleries or exhibits, nothing that would remotely qualify me to be an "artist." I just like fiddling around with metal and a plumber's torch. People get so hung up on what the meaning of "art" is and what an "artist" is ... >> crispini


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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
33. i guess the syracuse fans will like it
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
36. Olbermann's Lament
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 04:02 PM by lwfern
I glare at gates of saffron hues
That critics love, though I abhor -
Construction orange that blocks my view
Of Central Park, which I adore.

I dont like art that looks like trash,
Or laundry stolen from peoples yards.
I prefer a simple photograph
Printed (with stats) on baseball cards.
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. That sums it up perfectly...
Like KO paraphrased the old cliche' about art:

"I don't know much about art -- but I know what I hate"!

Christo-->:spank:<--KO-->:spank:<--Jeanne-Claude(La Christo)

-------------
<<
Olbermann's Lament

I glare at gates of saffron hues
That critics love, though I abhor -
Construction orange that blocks my view
Of Central Park, which I adore.

I dont like art that looks like trash,
Or laundry stolen from peoples yards.
I prefer a simple photograph
Printed (with stats) on baseball cards.
>> Iwfern
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. I love them
(just for the record)

The lament is from KO's point of view, not my own. I've been a huge christo fan for 20 years. We wanted so badly to have him speak at our college, but we couldn't afford the fee. It wasn't even all that high, but the school only had 300 students, so it was hard to raise it.
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Are you...
... still in school? If so, what is the fee?-- maybe we could all chip in, and you could reward our generosity by posting lots of pics from the event, plus a transcript of the speech (like they did when he spoke at Cornell).
I bet the KOEB would come through for y'all -- or at least try like hell!
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. lol
I'm still in school - but as a teacher now. I was talking about 20 years ago. And I meant we wanted Christo to come speak, not Keith, in case that wasn't clear. :)
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Hilarious subthread: "Not getting it."
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Talk about a miscommunication! LOL!
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 08:52 PM by WhirlyGirl
Guess I was thinking of KO as the verbal one. A lotta times, visual artists aren't all that articulate... but then, what I don't know about Christo would fill several volumes.

Sooooo... as Miss Emily Latella said... "Never mind!"

-----------
<< I meant we wanted Christo to come speak, not Keith, in case that wasn't clear. >> Iwfern
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. I had no idea they were supposed to be "art"!
I thought they really were "road cones" marking some sort of planned construction. :wtf:
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
41. I agree with Keith.
I am "Mr Art" and am the first person to defend artists and their work, if they deserve it...but these Saffron Gates look like shit.
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. It's about as saffron as the Golden Gate Bridge is gold.
By the way, both are BRIGHT FUCKING HOLY SHIT ORANGE.
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. I love the fact that
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 05:38 PM by name not needed
if you don't love a specific piece of "art", you're automatically an uncultured phillistine.

Flame away.
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. No flaming from me--
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 05:55 PM by Shopaholic
for the record, I like art too. I also own original works of art and have been known to visit art galleries and museums more than once in my life. I just happen to think that these "Saffron Gates" are ass-ugly, and that would be a kind assessment of what I think of them! :evilgrin:
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #42
69. I think it was a bit disingenous (sp?) of Keith to make that assumption.
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 01:42 AM by crispini
Lack of appreciation of X Y or Z does not make one an uncultured philistine. Who's saying that? Not me! I for one don't think all that much of the French Impressionists, but that's just my taste.

But, I don't think he "gets it," either. I think that even though he doesn't say it, he's falling into that old trap of "That's not art."
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. KO didn't say that HE thinks that way; he's objecting to the art world's
... cognoscenti laying that intolerant rap on folks who don't agree with *THEM* that X, Y or Z is art.

HE CLAIMS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE FOR HIMSELF that flaming orange wickets don't belong in a park. (If they did, God would've installed them in Eden, facryinoutloud.)

HE CLAIMS THE RIGHT *PERSONALLY* TO OBJECT to flaming orange wickets right outside his window, and to artsy types regarding HIM as a philistine as a result of his objection.

It's the INAPPROPRIATE SITING of the exhibit that Keith objects to, crispini! (Otherwise, I believe he would've had very little to say about the exhibit -- if anything.)

The intrusion pi**es him off. That's valid, IMO.

---------------
<< I think it was a bit disingenous (sp?) of Keith to make that assumption. Lack of appreciation of X Y or Z does not make one an uncultured philistine. Who's saying that? Not me! I for one don't think all that much of the French Impressionists, but that's just my taste.
But, I don't think he "gets it," either. I think that even though he doesn't say it, he's falling into that old trap of "That's not art." >> crispini


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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Do the art world cognoscenti say that anyone who doesn't like
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 02:41 AM by crispini
Christo is a philistine? I don't know meself, I don't read art quarterlies. :shrug: I don't like the implication that because I like Christo, I'm an art snob. I'm not an art snob, I'm an ordinary person who is willing to open her mind and think about something. I wish I could see it... I'd really like to take it on its own merits rather than get all of these secondhand reports and photographs. I'm frustrated, because I'm predisposed to like it, but I just don't know.

For all I know, KO's thoughts on the subject may be completely correct, and I firmly endorse KO's right to say it's shite art.

I just think it's funny that a big part of his objection revolves around the fact that ... GASP... he can see it from his window. Hey, maybe his neighbor likes it?

And who's to say that it's an intrusion? Central Park belongs to all the people of NYC, and from what I've gathered on this board, an awful lot of people like it.

Christo gets big props from me for creating all of these conversations about what art is and whether or not this work is good. That, in and of itself, is a worthy thing to have done. :hi:
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. I absolutely agree with you, crispini, about the artist's role...
... in provoking dialog and new perspectives!

I majored in English and love music, so discussions of this sort have revolved mainly around musical and literary mavericks -- but a lot of those same issues and ideas apply to the visual arts as well.

I believe that were it not for the creative impulse, people would be condemned to looking at the world the same way all their lives -- and that would eventually cause civilization to die. I'm sure that's not what's being advocated here.

KO *ANTICIPATED* that he would be called a philistine for objecting to the Christo exhibit, and responded to the charge PRE-EMPTIVELY! You ask who says it's an intrusion; HE does! It's an entertaining tantrum being thrown by an expert tantrum-thrower who feels the sanctity of Central Park has been violated.

Couldn't we classify tantrum-throwing as an ARTFORM, and award Keith high marks for his impressive command of the medium?! :-)

----------------
<< Do the art world cognoscenti say that anyone who doesn't like Christo is a philistine? I don't know meself, I don't read art quarterlies.
I don't like the implication that because I like Christo, I'm an art snob. I'm not an art snob, I'm an ordinary person who is willing to open her mind and think about something. I wish I could see it... I'd really like to take it on its own merits rather than get all of these secondhand reports and photographs.
I'm frustrated, because I'm predisposed to like it, but I just don't know. For all I know, KO's thoughts on the subject may be completely correct, and I firmly endorse KO's right to say it's shite art. I just think it's funny that a big part of his objection revolves around the fact that ... GASP... he can see it from his window. Hey, maybe his neighbor likes it?
And who's to say that it's an intrusion? Central Park belongs to all the people of NYC, and from what I've gathered on this board, an awful lot of people like it. Christo gets big props from me for creating all of these conversations about what art is and whether or not this work is good. That, in and of itself, is a worthy thing to have done. >> crispini
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. LOL.
I just don't like being told that because I like Christo, I've been brainwashed by Big Art Nazis, or I *am* a Big Art Nazi. I make up my own damn mind about art, and I don't like Christo because I've been told to by anybody, I like Christo because I like Christo. And KO is welcome to do the same. :)

KO gets big props from me anytime just for being KO, tantrum thrower or not. :loveya: This is just something that's fun to argue about. ;)

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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. Well, whoever called you a Big Art Nazi ain't nuthin but a FASCIST!!!!
So THERE.

Our Keith would NEVER use such O'Reillyesque epithets. He doesn't have to.

The closest KO came to inflammatory verbiage was when he intimated that when it comes to Christo, a lot of folks seem to be afraid to say the emperor has no clothes; and when he suggested that dogs have the right idea with regard to what those gates are good for -- but even then, he didn't use either the word "nekkit" or "urinate." :-)

Let's face it: Keith is a class act -- even when he's having a blue fit about orange wickets! :thumbsup:

-------------
<< I just don't like being told that because I like Christo, I've been brainwashed by Big Art Nazis, or I *am* a Big Art Nazi. I make up my own damn mind about art, and I don't like Christo because I've been told to by anybody, I like Christo because I like Christo.
And KO is welcome to do the same.:-)
KO gets big props from me anytime just for being KO, tantrum thrower or not. :loveya: This is just something that's fun to argue about. ;-) >> crispini
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Well, he IMPLIED that I'm brainwashed
for liking Christo. Which I disagree with. I don't think he's brainwashed (OR a philistine) for not liking Christo.

But, if you WERE brainwashed, would you know it? Hmmmm....
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Naw, cris, he wasn't talkin about YOU, he wuz talking about...
... Ann Couter -- only he didn't say "art"! LOL!

----------
<< Well, he IMPLIED that I'm brainwashed for liking Christo. >> crispini


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mr_hat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
49. Everyone got the Donovan pun, right? Right?
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Yeah...
... actually, the reference almost wasn't OBSCURE enough for KO! :-)
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #49
70. not until you pointed it out NT
NT
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
55. Oh, THOSE gates...
Like I said somewhere else, everything he does looks like a Tyvek wrap.

He says it's meaningless, and he's right.

He says it's beautiful, too, but there I disagree.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
57. All proceeds from this one are going to charity, btw
just thought I'd mention that. :)

(proceeds coming from the sale of art prints of it)
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Good. It's the least he can do...
... after making Keith unhappy -- regardless of any artistic merit The Gates may have.
He should have consulted with Keith FIRST --
Then installed it somewhere else! ;-)
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. I can't imagine they'll sell many prints. n/t
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Apparently, he makes millions from selling his original drawings
Of the "pieces" he creates. I learned this on tonight's "60 Minutes.":-)
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
59. 20~23 million spent on bright orange prison-grade mu-mus... where better
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 09:01 PM by HypnoToad
could the money be spent?

I dunno. Having recently seen the clip of chimpazoid* praising a woman for having 3 jobs, I find myself becoming more cynical each day. :cry:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. How could the money have been spent?
He could easily get volunteers to work on his projects, but he CHOOSES to pay his workers. So a good chunk of the money went to laborers providing temp jobs.

From another thread, someone pointed out $3 million went for a city permit, so that - minus the security cost, if that's even taken from tax dollars, and I'm not sure it is (I've seen conflicting reports on that) - is profit for the city.

The materials will be recycled for other causes, like fabric for flood control sandbags.

Jobs, city funds, art, recycling for good causes, charitable donations generated ... this doesn't seem like such a bad way for a private person to spend their money.
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #59
82. At least the artist paid for it all himself
he raises the money by selling sketches of what the finished product will look like. Not one penny came from the the city or from tax money.
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Gots ta READ the article before you can say that, Al...
... for, as Keith reports:

"The city will spend thousands of dollars of my taxpayer money to pull the cops from things like... ohhh... counter-terrorism and crime prevention, to make sure nobody spray-paints any of the 7,500 "Gates" with the message 'You Left Your Laundry Out, Lady.'"

----------
<< Not one penny came from the the city or from tax money. >> AllegroRondo
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Northern Experiment Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
61. Sorry Olberman, I disagree!
I think those are awesome. Something about "the gates" gives off a really good feeling in my opinion. Can't really explain it, but I really like them.
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #61
74. Will this disagreement alienate Christo's admirers from KO? SHOULD it?
I certainly hope folks will accord Keith a little latitude on this; after all, if folks can't vent their frustration about big swaths of material in their back yards without losing friends, how can they count on support when they talk about MATERIAL election irregularities??? :scared:

-------------
<< Sorry Olberman, I disagree!"
I think those are awesome. Something about "the gates" gives off a really good feeling in my opinion. Can't really explain it, but I really like them. >> Northern Experiment
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #74
80. LOL!
I bet Keith's expecting to get swarms of angry email from the annoying leftist art freaks out there and he'd kinda like to make a fun fuss out of this a la Dobson.... he should know us better, any emails he might get will be well-written, extremely polite, and totally not worthy of making fun of over the air. --- At least, I sure hope so. :D

It's just art -- if we can't all disagree about ART and still get along, what CAN we disagree about? ;)
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. I like 'em fine
Individually, close-up, they have as little meaning as the specks of paint in a Seurat. In the long-shot photos I've seen, they weave a path of saturated light through the bare black trees of Central Park, and I like that. Granted, I might not like them if they were messing with my view of the one chunk of nature afforded a city dweller.

I love Keith Olbermann, and his program is one of the high points of my weekday. Here he's entitled to his opinion, and I've got mine...which is also at odds with that of my sweetie, who would just as soon see Christo wrapped in pink plastic and left floating in the sea. That's an installation he would really enjoy. ;)
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WhirlyGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. There, you see?
You totally got to the heart of Keith's not-so-secret heartache, SWMBO! The issue is so simple -- yet so tailor-made for someone in a high-pressure job who treasures the calming effects of unspoiled Nature and has access to a mic and a blog to carry his message of howling protest to the immediate world when Art clumsily intrudes!

(In the longshot, with the light coming thru, the wickets sort of reminded me of Christmas luminarias. Then I remembered they were making Keith unhappy, and I became once more their enemy. Grrrrrrr! :-) )

-------------
Individually, close-up, they have as little meaning as the specks of paint in a Seurat. In the long-shot photos I've seen, they weave a path of saturated light through the bare black trees of Central Park, and I like that. Granted, I might not like them if they were messing with my view of the one chunk of nature afforded a city dweller. >> SheWhoMustBeObeyed
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KitchenWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
79. And why are "The Gates" big national news
I am in the midwest, and I like art as much as the next person, but I fail to understand why this is Front Page News (tm). Death toll in Iraq, *'s lying about what they knew before 9/11, *'s possible push into Iran, etc., now *that's* Front Page News (tm), not a large scale art project.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
84. Orange is so 1999. n/t
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