MAN the British sure were some mean SOBs, weren't they?

[Bouncy Ball]

But even at that, they are nothing compared to the neocons. At least they gave concessions to Indian rule at first.

[MrModerate]

1. Trying to grab the stream of consciousness . . .

That prompted your thread title.

Care to expand?

[Bouncy Ball]

3. I'm watching "Gandhi"

DAMN. Just damn. How cold-blooded.

[MrModerate]

5. Oh yeah.

Cold indeed. I take it you just watched the massacre at the well. Keep in mind that Britain had many liberal traditions that operated in parallel with the imperial, racist, maddog ones.

Also that some of the guys they shipped out to "the colonies" they did because they were too dangerous to keep at home.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. That makes more sense in light of what I just watched then.

Dear God. 1516 people. Men, women and children.

[Zuni]

11. Exactly

Great Britain has done much good for the world, even in Empire building. But of course, there were many Armritsar massacres too.

[Zuni]

12. You must have seen the Armritsar massacre scene

Well, it was terrible. But the guilty were punished and the UK never executed Ghandhi and eventually left India peacefully.
Imagine if Ghandhi had protested against Nazi germany or the Soviet Union.
You would have never heard of him, because he would have been killed or locked up in some forced labor camp.

[Bouncy Ball]

15. You're right

and in my original post, I did point out that the British gave concessions to Gandhi and others all along the way. More than they had to at the time.

On edit, I'll say something else: the British were smart enough to know they were outnumbered and if the uprising continued, they wouldn't win.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. ALL empires are like that.

Even the least evil of empires is still evil. Think about this.

[Bouncy Ball]

4. True, true.

I'm so sickened by this. I had no idea they did things like this.

[truebrit71]

7. Don't forget we also "invented" the concentration camp...

...during the Boer War.

I am proud of alot of what my country has done over the years...and there are some things that just make me cringe with embarrassment...

[Bouncy Ball]

9. Well, hell

I'm an American. It's not like I can talk. I guess I was just shocked to see that. I was a bit naive, I guess. I thought they just ruled India as a colony, not massacred them.

And almost everything Gandhi is saying at this point in the movie appleis to the situation in Iraq, as well.

[Lex]

I think with every colonization of another people

there will have to be lots of killings, massacres, etc.

People don't like to have their country overrun by foreigners who want to 'colonize' them.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. And that's what we are doing in Iraq.

No matter what the bushbots say, we are building 14 permanent military bases there, we are controlling the government. Same thing as colonization. Empire.

[Lex]

22. Exactly. It's all been done before with the same bloodshed

the same 'insurgents' 'freedom fighters' (whatever they happened to be called at the time) and in the end it becomes an utter failure.

Bush keeps trying to convince us that Iraq will have control of its own affairs, but no one there or here really believes that.

Didn't the Brits use to call us Yanks 'insurgents' back during the Revolutionary War? Or was it some other name? Anyway, same deal.

[Bouncy Ball]

23. I just know when I was growing up

I only heard it called by the grand name "The American Revolutionary War" so when I was an adult and found out that England referred to it as "the problem with the colonies" it cracked me the hell up. The difference in those two descriptions told me everything.

It makes me wonder what the Iraqis call this......

This whole thing going on now is so damn shameful. I have always been against the war, but I have determined we need to show the other part of America that the Iraqis are NOT being helped, but HARMED by what we are doing. This is no benevolent mission. I am determined to speak up on behalf of the Iraqis and their right to TRUE self-rule, a stable nation, and an end to the killing.

[ashmanonar]

30. "it makes me wonder what the iraqis call this..."

a giant fucking cockup?

cuz that's what I would call it if i was an iraqi.

[Zuni]

10. Britain has done alot of good for the world, and it has done bad

Where would we be without Britain?
A lot of people concentrate on the bad things countries do, but so much good has come out of the UK as well.
For every Cromwell massacring Irishmen or Gen. Dyer massacring Indians you also have the Magna Carta or standing alone against the Nazis in 1940.

[Bouncy Ball]

13. I agree.

No disagreement there. It's just kind of shocking to find out about the bad stuff.....

Goodness knows my country has enough of it, too.

[Bouncy Ball]

8. Oh my gosh, something Gandhi just said

is really relevant:

"I beg you to accept that there is not a people on earth who would not prefer their own bad government to the good government of an alien power.

Um, wow.

[Tweed]

14. Those sons of a bitches still persecute people

Just look at Ireland! Give Ireland back to the Irish!

[truebrit71]

16. Tell you what.. you give California, Arizona and Texas back to Mexico..

..and we'll get right on that 'Giving Ireland Back' thingy....K?

Oh, and while you're at it how about giving some overdue folks their 40 acres and a mule?

Wanna keep playing?

:eyes:

[Bouncy Ball]

17. Well if we're going that far

we need to just give America back to the Indians! :-)

[truebrit71]

18. That would be a good start!!!

;-)

[Bouncy Ball]

20. ...

:hi:

I guess I'd have to move to Wales in that case. That's where my ancestors are from, way way way way back.

[fudge stripe cookays]

27. Deutschland here, BB....

I was disappointed the other day to find that my one last holdout ancestor, who we always thought was "Dutch" was actually German too. And so was his wife!

That makes a full 3/4 Kraut for me.

[Bouncy Ball]

28. Heh heh

Well Mr. Bouncy Ball is only first generation American on his father's side. His dad is from Germany.

Want some jaegershnitzel? Mmmmmmmmm. Yummy. Some spaetzle? Red cabbage? I'm drooling now. Ever been to Henk's European Deli on Northwest Highway? Mmmmmmmm.

[fudge stripe cookays]

31. Yep!!!

We love Henk's. I was not a big fan of sauerkraut before I ate theirs. But theirs is yummy!

I never even ate German food until my honeymoon!! I was 34! Can you believe that? My mom's always been really freaked out about being German. She hates it. Has some very bad memories of my great grandmother, and has always hated German food, German culture-- everything.

I'm starting to really get into my German-ness. When I went to Boston a few years ago... Everyone was really Italian, or Greek, or Irish-- I didn't feel ethnic enough. Just German. Generic, whitebread old German.

When I went to Wisconsin? Brats and beer? Oompa music? Fish fries and strudel? I was home, baby!!! Ich bin zu hause! I want to go visit again. I may go to the Historical Society for more research this summer. I adore Madison.

FSC

[tjwmason]

19. Those that remain don't want to leave

The British government has stated openly and clearly that if the majority of the people in Northern Ireland wish to become part of the Irish Republic, then we would secede the 6 counties.

[fudge stripe cookays]

25. I can see both sides of that.

But after reading "Those Are Real Bullets" about Derry, I finally understand why the Catholics hate the British so much.

FSC

[RogueTrooper]

24. Ireland is an independent republic

has been for quite a long time too. I think you need to get a newer history book. However, if you mean Northen Ireland then I am sorry to inform you that the Irish don't want them and they are quite happy being part of the UK.

[Bouncy Ball]

26. I'm not the one who originally said anything about this

but I wanted to thank you for posting on this thread. I didn't know that about Ireland. :hi:

[mr blur]

35. Actually, the Irish have Ireland

It's an independent republic. In Northern Ireland the majority seem to want to be British - apart from the ones who were blowing people up, of course. But the whole thing is, historically, very nasty, especially on our (English) part. Ah, religion, is there anything it can't fuck up?

[HEyHEY]

29. I don't think the US has caught up yet to the Brute force of the Brits

Foor those 200 or so years

[neweurope]

34. They are very rapidly catching up. It's not so much a matter of years...

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Nye Bevan]

32. Yes, as a Brit, a lot of my country's past makes me cringe...

... you can also watch "The Patriot" and "Braveheart" for more examples. And the burning of Washington DC in 1814 was appalling.

However, there are some more positve aspects of British history. For example, slavery was abolished in Britain in 1772.

[Bouncy Ball]

33. Yep

the good with the bad. There's plenty in my country's history that makes me cringe.

The really bad thing is, I never thought any of it would go on in my lifetime. But it is. Can you see me cringing from all the way over here? I do it constantly nowdays.

[tjwmason]

36. Not so sure about the burning of Washington

Admittedly the whole war was rather silly and should never have started, but I thought that we just burned the Capitol and White House leaving the rest basically intact (very restrained for an army of the time), not that there was much else then.

The Patriot and Braveheart are as close to accurate history as Fox is to accurate news coverage.

On slavery we were both bad and good (as on most things), we were a major force in getting the slave-trade going - but when we turned against it (earlier than most) we really did turn against it and used the Royal Navy to suppress it very effectively.