Boston? New York City ? San Diego ? Denver ? Seattle ? Miami ?????

[Trajan]

Say you had a choice ....

Say you had a choice to live near one of THOSE cities because there are job openings in each one that represents your best chance at re-establishing your life after a long and devastating lack of employment .....

Which one would YOU choose ? ...

Some facts:

I was born in Lodi, NJ ....

I lived for over 30 years in Southern California ...

I currently (and somewhat tragically) live in Southwestern Missouri ...

After trying to start a small business with the proceeds of the sale of our Southern California home (The business is still leaking money, like most start-up's do ... We are going to sell ... It's a very decent women's gym, so it should sell relatively fast ) ...

After trying to find employment in Southern Missouri for over a half year ... I swear I have at LEAST 90 resumes and applications extant here .... I have been 'allowed' to work two extremely low paying jobs, one a temp job, and the other pays so low I cannot make my rent ....

After trying DESPERATELY to establish my family here, to start a new life in a beautiful and smog free area of the world: We are done trying .... It's time to cut bait, and move on to the next stage ....

The fishin, so to speak, has turned stale ....

So: Now I seek employment in MY field of expertise ... (which happens to be the installation, testing, analysis and repair of Electrical/Electronic/Electromechanical Systems), in ANY state, in nearly ANY locale ....

Of course: There are many factors one looks at when considering such a move ... just a few ....

1) The MOST important (to us) : Can we be happy culturally ? ...

2) Can we afford decent housing within our income range ?

3) Is the air and water clean ???

4) Will our teenage children appreciate the area ? ... Good schools ??? ... a lively artistic culture ? ... Fun stuff to do ? ...

I know that these places have interesting characteristics that make them unique and special .... I have a long standing love affair with NYC that my family didnt understand, UNTIL we went there last year ...

Wow: they do understand now .... But NYC is expensive .... (The jobs are actually in Edison, NJ, and Suffolk, LI ...) ....

We loved Boston .... HATE the roadways, but it is a special place ... (The jobs are actually in Lowell, Littleton and Leominster) ....

Seattle is amazingly pretty and the culture sophisticated and mature ... ( The job is actually in Tacoma ...) ...

Being a long time So Cal resident: we know we love San Diego .... plus my wife's twin sister lives there .. a huge bonus .... (The jobs are actually in San Marcos and Escondido) ...

We know nothing of Miami .... but how can you go wrong with gorgeous beachs and great food ? ... (Red State issue though ) ...

We have been in Denver ... we loved the clean air and pretty locale ... We could be convinced it is a good choice ....


So? ... My fellow DU brethren ? ...

If YOU had your druthers (Whatever the fuck that means ), What would YOU choose, and why ? ...

IF you know personally of any positive or negative factors, please share your knowledge .... NOW is the time for me to find this stuff out .....

DUers ? ... What say YOU ?

( I wanted to post this as a poll ... but Im too poor to afford even DU membership for the moment ..... I promise to make it up to ya's when I can ) ......

[ET Awful]

1. Well, I live in Lowell, MA where one of your jobs is, so I'm kind of

biased :) I love the whole Boston area personally. I lived in Somerville for 5 years before I moved out here to Lowell.

I moved out here from southern California, so I can relate to that too.

I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite between the two though. I love the Boston area in many ways, but I just don't consider the Atlantic a real ocean, I can't stand the beaches here :).

Overall, I like 'em both a lot, but for now I'm in Mass.

[Trajan]

4. The beaches in CA are mostly outstanding ....

But you can be 'hard pressed' to find reasonably priced housing near any of them ....

We drove down from Pennington, VT, down to Route 3 and into Boston last year .... We loved the 'upstate' Mass. foliage ... New England has a special 'feel' to it that is very appealing to us ...

But heck: San Diego is one of the most wonderful cities on this lonely planet ....

Choices .... choices .....

[warrens]

19. Ya gotta go to the Cape or to Ogunquit

But compared to Cali, northeast beaches are a dud.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

23. You haven't been to the right beaches

the Outer Cape (Eastham, Wellfleet, Truro, P-Town) have some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. I think Good Harbor in Gloucester is fabulous, and Plum Island is wonderful. Crane Reservation is pretty too.

Which ones have you been to?

[jonnyblitz]

31. is crane reservation near newburyport? I think I have been there.

i am pretty sure I have. I have yet to go to P-Town. :hi:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

37. Crane is in Ipswich-not to far from N'Port

it is a beautful long stretch of beach. I can't believe you haven't been to P-Town yet. Race Point is one of the pretiest beaches anywhere. And the architecture is beautiful there. :hi:

[jonnyblitz]

41. i know , people gasp when i tell them I haven't been there.

I am probably the only gay dude in new england who hasn't! :P

[Kathy in Cambridge]

44. I just think you might be!

:P

[ET Awful]

35. Haven't found one yet with a south/southwest facing pointbreak

that will let me ride a perfect 6-8 foot wave for 1/4 mile or so like Leo Carillo State Beach or Malibu :) (let along Rincon) :) :) :)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

36. Rhode Island is your best bet

but Cahoon Hollow in Wellfleet has some great waves (and a great bar on the beach called the Beachcomber).

[candy]

2. Denver-----beautiful and the housing prices are better than in

the Boston area where I live-----I have a son in Denver,though,and he couldn't believe what a "bargain"the houses were after leaving the Boston area.

[Trajan]

7. We drove from So Cal to Denver a few years ago ....

The back roads along the 70 are simply amazing .... Vail and Aspen are wonderful, but way over our heads money wise .... Im sure there are nice places to live along the foothills: We went to Littleton ... It was nice ... but kinda plain ....

At this point: plain isnt a bad thing .... I'd rather be living 'plain' with a decent job than 'plain' without one ....

[candy]

17. I was surprised at the geography in the Denver area also--I'm

used to more green and the sparseness of some of the areas surprised me,but the plains are the plains.

I know several people who went to Denver from the Boston area and they never came back. They all love it and it would be closer for trips back to California.Just a hop and a skip compared to the east coast locations.

I also have a son in New York(Long Island) and housing is BRUTAL.

[candy]

3. Delete-double post

[politicaholic]

5. Seattle is fantastic, unfortunately, Tacoma sucks.

If I were you I would move to Burien or Kent and then Commute. You're looking at about a $200k price for a good house with a good yard.

Yup, the community here is wonderful and though you get a blockhead here and there, they're still democrats at least.

[Trajan]

8. Yeah ... Tacoma was kinda gritty ...

Like a big empty dry dock ....

But the bay views on the back roads from Tacoma up through Federal Way and beyond really struck us wonderfully .... The sound is gorgeous .... We liked a lot of Seattle when we visited ... We stayed in Issiquah .... probably a bit too expensive for us ... but Seattle has LOTS of nice places to live ....

Again: .. We could be convinced Seattle is the place ...

[politicaholic]

11. That's why I suggested Burien or Kent, cause they're by water.

You also can work and commute for a year in Tacoma and then find a job in the city.

[The empressof all]

12. Tacoma's gotten better

I have a number of friends who love living in Tacoma. Their nightlife has gotten better and along with the new museum their art community is growing. Housing is more reasonable than Seattle. You will need to do some investigating about neighborhoods but I think it could be a good choice. I wouldn't go to Burien or Kent. If you want to commute look into Gig Harbor.

[opiate69]

46. Tacoma's way better than the Seattle-elitists would have you

believe.. I'd take a house in Old town or the North End over any house in Seattle (for a fraction of the price, no less). And, since the University of Washington opened a campus in downtown Tacoma, there's been a major revitalization there... and, Gig Harbor's really, really nice, but traffic over the Narrows bridge is abhorrent. Another thing to factor in if you're going to look to Gig Harbor or the peninsula, they're building a second bridge over the Narrows now, which will help with traffic tremendously, but it will be a toll bridge.

[Erika]

6. Seattle then Miami

Seattle has culture with an old west flavor. The people are great.

Miami is a "blue" city in a red state with wonderful Calypso music and Carribean influence. Other than hurricane season, the weather can't be beat.

I almost wrecked in Boston while driving. I didn't have the slightest idea what a "rotary" meant.

If I had all the money I needed, I would pick NYC. The diversity and the fast speed of life fascinates me.

Denver is too cold too long. You'ld have to really be into nature to enjoy Denver.

I used to think San Diego was the most beautiful city in the world.
It's changed as the people there have also.

Just my two cents.

[Trajan]

10. LMFAO to 'almost wrecked' ...

Er ..... well maybe it wasnt so funny .... But I TOTALLY relate ...

We had NO clue what the hell a Rotary was ... until we finally figured it out ....

Our biggest issue with Boston was the roadway markings : There werent any ... We were lost nearly the whole time we were there .....

NO 'crossing' street signs, only those that showed the street you were on .... We went in circles for two hours ....

NEver been to Miami ... I think the whole caribbean thing has many fine points .... but Miami can get miserably hot and humid .... But again: you get the good with the bad, and you find favor one way or the other ....

Choices ..... choices .....

[Erika]

14. I agree about the lack of signs

We thought we were in Salem Mass, but then we saw company trucks with "Salem NH". We backtracked. We had left the hiway when we saw a road sign just reading "Salem"

[candy]

20. Laughing at your post---I've been in Boston all of my life---

and it's been a long life, and I still have trouble with rotaries.

[Withywindle]

9. Have you considered Chicago?

I have a longstanding love affair with NYC too....but I married Chicago for convenience 12 years ago, and I'm VERY happy here. Culture, activities, arts, diversity, jobs. Not far from beautiful hiking/water/vacation spots in WI and MN. And we're true blue! (Not a single Repub can claim to represent me until ya get to the "president")

[Trajan]

13. I have ....

I didn't see any specific job openings that were in my field ....

I am finding it difficult to find work OUTSIDE of my long established career areas ... so I am going to go with the flow, and try to re-enter aerospace electronics .... or something close ...

Missouri simply has no place for my experience: I am either OVERqualified, or not perfectly qualified .... The proverbial rock and a hard place, to be sure ....

I do want to visit Chicago soon ..... I understand the ethnic food opportunities are superb ...

[Withywindle]

15. I'm sorry, I don't know much about that...

...though Boeing does have a headquarters here now....


Yes, we have incredible ethnic food here, all kinds. We can't beat New York in quantity (nothing can) but in quality we're on par, and we're cheaper!

[Trajan]

27. Boeing is there ....

But it is Boeing corporate that is in Chicago ... They would NEVER do any production or development work in Illinois ....

They hate paying guys like me high wages ....

In the mid 80's: Rockwell started a new division in El Paso (Boeing bought Rockwell's Aerospace Businesses in 1996, and so I am currently a Boeing layoff) .... They started to move my work from CA to south Texas, slowly but surely, .. until they closed production in CA ....

Hence why I am now out of work ....

I was paid over $25 per hr : My 'counterparts' in El Paso made $12 per hour ... and THEY had very few benefits .... They also moved work to Mississippi and Alabama ... ALSO low paying 'right to work' states without union representation ...

Hmmmmm ... see a pattern there ? ...

'Outsourcing' began at home ..... from Blue to Red states ....

[Withywindle]

29. Oh yeah, I see what you mean....

..And they're here because Chicago bid HARD to get 'em. Don't ask me why.

[Dastard Stepchild]

21. I agree... I live here as well...

but I consider it to be a bit of a tough job market in the city proper. Anecdotally, have lots of friends and associates who continually gripe about the small number of opportunities. I can't speak for my own experiences at the moment, as I have been with my employment for a while now.

[warrens]

16. Out of that list, I would take Boston or Miami

But I would take Chicago over either by a lot. You can live in downtown Chicago on a decent salary, and it's a great place to bring up kids. My daughter is a freshman in high school and loves it here. It's kinda grim here in January and February, but the rest of the year is great, particularly the summer. Lots of public transportation; you don't need a car. Just rent one when you have to take a trip. Great museums, outdoor festivals by the dozens, free zoo, etc.

I grew up in New England and lived in Boston for a few years. Even places like Lowell are getting expensive, although you could live in NH and commute. But the whole area is getting gentrified so fast, and there is a shortage of housing at all price levels.

Miami, if you live to the north, is liveable, but getting expensive. It's also really transient and impersonal. You get great weather and housing, as long as you're willing to drive a bit, is pretty affordable. The schools are really hit or miss. The same in Chicago; do your research. In New England, most of the public schools are pretty solid.

Good luck. If by chance you decide on Chicago, PM me and I would be happy to give you lots of advice. I moved here 8 years ago, and know the city pretty well now.

[Trajan]

22. One of the 'great' things about SW Missouri ....

Housing goes for a song ...

I sold my 1480 sq ft 4 BD 1 1/2 BTH pool home in So Cal for $360,000 ...

IN Springfield: One could buy a palatial 6 BD 4 Bth monster, upwards of 5000 sq ft ... for the same price .....

One problem: no damned jobs ....

Strike that: No good jobs ....

You make Chicago sound REALLY appealing .....

Perhaps I should scour the job lists a little more closely ....

Thanks for your insight ....

[barackmyworld]

25. I vote Chicago (if it was possible)

Lived there my whole life in rogers park. There are awesome (public) schools, lots of fun stuff to do, not too expensive (except for 9% sales tax)

[AlCzervik]

18. being a massachusetts native i like Boston

but i really like Seattle too.

[RagingInMiami]

24. Miami is indeed a blue city in a red state

People who move down here from elsewhere either love it or hate it. They love it because the weather is gorgeous, there is plenty of diversity and plenty of nightlife. No one parties harder than Miamians.
But some people end up hating it because at times, it can seem like a capital city in a third world country. If you don't speak Spanish, you can literally find yourself against a brick wall in certain neighborhoods. The traffic really sucks down here. I think it's the worst in the U.S. and it's getting worse each day.
On a positive note, the city is now growing upwards because we have used up all our land space. So condos are going up everywhere near the heart of the city, which hopefully, will reduce the traffic, increase property values and create even more restaurants and nightlife.
They are also building a new performing arts center in downtown Miami.
The plan is to turn Miami into a Manhattan of the south. Miami has always had a bit of NY envy. Many NYers refer to it as the sixth borough because it's their second home.
Another good thing is crime is down. We no longer shoot each other at the drop of a hat.
On the negative side, Miami is the poorest large city in the country. We are a city of immigrants and high grade industries have been reluctant to open shop down here. Although the cost of living is better than NY, LA or SF, it is quickly rising. If you invest in one of the hundreds of pre-construction condos that are going up around the city, you will have made a wise investment. The problem is, many Miamians are going to be left behind once they are all built.
If you like sports, you'll be in of the hottest sports markets in the U.S. We got Shaq and the Heat. We got the Miami Hurricanes, who have won five national championships. We have the Florida Marlins who have won two world series' in just over 10 years of existance. The dolphins just hired Lou Saban as their coach, who lead LSU to a NC last year.
PM me if you want any other info. I was born and raised here and can tell you whatever you need to know.

EDIT: Miami-Dade is one of four southern counties that are all blue; Monroe County (the Keys), Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale) and Palm Beach County (West Palm Beach and Boca Raton). The saying in South Florida is the further north you drive, the further south you get.

[Zomby Woof]

26. AVOID Seattle

Yes, they POST jobs, but the job market is so shitty there, it is next to impossible to get hired. Too competetive. It's EXPENSIVE as hell to live there, and you would not get paid your worth versus the cost of living.

Leaving there was one of the smartest things I have ever done. My life improved 100-fold.

[Trajan]

30. Hmmmmm ...

Come to think of it: Boeing has been bleeding workers for years now .... the aerospace industry in WA is as moribund as CA ....

I should have thought of that .... The competition with fellow aerospace techs makes things dicey ....

Thanks Zombs ....

[Zomby Woof]

32. 30,000 laid off from Boeing between 2001-2003

I was working a temp job under a supe who was making 28,000/year. His old job? Laid-off as a mechanical engineer at Boeing making $75,000. I was told too often "you're overqualified" or "you want too much money" (I was willing to whore myself for VERY LITTLE, but that was ther excuse). Besides, you can't survive in Seattle on $10.00 hour, the debt and poverty would crush you.

It's like the early 90's job market, but without the Alice In Chains soundtrack. :-)

Good luck though! :hi:

(for all you naysayers, I lived in Seattle from 1988-2003, so there.)

[SOteric]

42. I love Seattle, but I partially agree with Zomby here.

I'm not leaving anytime soon, but the housing market here is unrealistically inflated and several national polls have confirmed as much.

It's also correct that we're by and large a progressive and liberal community, have sophisticated arts and cultural development and our schools are better than average. On any typical summer day the air smells like heaven and the sea sparkles like a baroque jewel. You can get coffee here 24 hours a day. Excellent skiing, hiking, beachcombing, camping, mountain and rock climbing and a temperate rain forest are all available with a short drive out of town.

You have to take the bitter with the sweet, however; we're surrounded by 5 active military bases and their largely Republican inhabitants. We have active volcanoes and serious earthquakes. Most of our ocean beaches are off limits to swimming, - the undertow is serious enough to pull down 6 ton ships. It rains a lot. Some of us like that, but others find it enhances an unwonderful depressive state.

[Zomby Woof]

47. no question about the beauty

No one loved Seattle more than I did when life was good. But it's unkind when life is not.

Some of my best memories are there, and the camping and fishing were supreme. I still have a soft spot for it in many ways. I light up when talking about "the old days". I became more like Emmett Watson as time went by, lol.

Saw incredible concerts there, ate some good food, and I still pull for the Mariners.

But damn, the expense and the grey wore on me like moldy flannel when the bottom fell out of my life.

[Zomby Woof]

28. Seattle sucks

The people are passive-aggressive and their 'friendliness' highly overrated. It's dreary and full of bipolar wackos. It's damp and mildewy. The traffic sucks major shitnuggets.

Tacoma isn't any worse, except for the smell. Avoid the northwest.

Don't do it!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

33. I would say Boston, but the housing here is ridiculous

I grew up here so I have a bias, but the education is top notch, we've got four seasons, access to pretty good skiing and beautiful beaches, and there's a ton of cultural pluses to living here.

The downside is the outrageous cost of housing, the traffic and the crowding. The suburbs up by Lowell are charming New England towns with the town green and white steepled churches, and are convenient to highways and the commuter rail, but you'll pay dearly for a small home. My sister and her husband just bought the cheapest house in Andover: an 1150 sq foot Cape for 350K that hadn't been renovated since the 1950s. Andover, however, is a beautiful town with some of the best schools in the country and 20 minutes to Boston. Littleton/Groton/Acton aren't that far from Lowell, but they're pretty pricey towns. Maynard may still be cheaper-it used to be a blue collar town, but anything within 50 miles of Boston has been gentrified.

My friends live out by Leominster, which is closer to Worcester. the housing is quite a bit cheaper out there, you're close to the Mohawk trail and some beautiful scenery, and I think the commuter trains go out that far (not sure). My friends live in Sterling, which is a fairly inexpensive town for what you get (land, bigger house, etc.)...

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Kathy

PS: I would move to NYC, but the prices there are even worse than Boston.

[Trajan]

38. VERY helpful post ....

Yeah: ... I know Boston is going to be very tough to find reasonably priced housing .... We were 'house poor' in CA .. and we hated that ...

We hate living on the margin of poverty .... it takes the fun out of life ....

We made 90,000 a year in CA, and were still poor .... go figure ....

I have commuted long distances in the past ... Leominster is a ways out there, and I think I recall Sterling from our trip .... but those distances are miniscule to the kinds of drives we would make in CA ....

I once drove 115 miles to get to work ....

Daily ....

I spent 3 1/2 hours on the road per day ..... I did that for about 6 months ..... It was a great job though ....

I did it because I had to .... otherwise: I would have been in the same predicament I am in now .....

Ill keep your post in mind in the future .... thanks ...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. Taxes are lower here than in CA

but 90K is a struggle for a family of 4. Property taxes have been going up every year because home valuations are ridiculous. Car insurance is big money here too. The commutes are nothing compared to SoCal, because Massachusetts is a little state. You can be in NYC in 3 hours, and Canada in 5 hours. Everything is pretty close together-but the traffic can be a living hell as a result. The one good thing is there's public trans.

I think your kids would love it here. I grew up here and there were tons of things for kids to do, not to mention that there is history in absolutely every town in this state. They can stumble upon Indian burial grounds and colonist graves from the 1600s during backwoods hikes, and visit places like Sturbridge Village, and Lexington and Concord.

Like I said, if you have any other questions about my beautiful state, I'd be happy to help. :-)

[Flaxbee]

34. I dreamt about La Jolla a few nights ago...

I grew up in SoCal and went to UCSD undergrad; lived in Del Mar and worked in La Jolla - I love San Diego, but it is so spread out. Then again, so is almost any SoCal city. Weather is hard to beat, and there's just a feeling of freedom I have when I'm there. Can't explain it any other way. Perhaps its simply the nice weather that makes life easier, even if you are stuck in traffic.

I have lived and worked in NYC and it is expensive and crowded, though the city itself is magnificent. I love to visit now b/c I know my way around, have favorite places I want to see, etc., but am always happy to leave, too. It's terrific if you have money, but it can be overwhelming if you don't.

Boston: Neat, but another place that never called to me, I think because of expensive housing and the bad roads I remember from driving up there a few times during the summer I spent in Providence. Neat place, but a headache.

Miami I'd strike if I were you b/c you have no real ties there... unlike San Diego where your wife's sister is. You could love it, you could hate it but you'd be stuck, at least for a bit. And you can always visit.

Denver could be fun. A lot of fun.

Seattle might be a pain in the ass for all the reasons Zombywoof states...there's something about the place that just strikes me as so self-satisfied and that irritates me, however irrational it may be.

If I were you, I'd cross off Boston, NYC, Miami and Seattle. I'd look closely at San Diego, Denver, and as several other posters have mentioned, Chicago. And, if there are jobs there, check out Providence, RI... if the northeast attracts you, Providence - at least when I was there 10 years ago - was a cool little town and a stone's throw from NYC and Boston.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. Providence still is a cool little city

but not cheap anymore, alas. There are lots of great restaurants there, and culture because of RISD and Brown.

[Trajan]

40. Great post ....

and very helpful ....

I understand why NYC isnt high on the affordability list: but I wouldnt live there ... I would live 'near' there ... probably in North Jersey somewhere ... We thought the area south of Nyack, NY was fucking gorgeous ... but we have no idea what housing is selling for there ....

We drove down from Pennington, VT to Washington DC last year .... we saw lots of wonderful places along the way .... Providence was certainly one ..... the whole area, like you mentioned, simply has a mystique, and aura of culture, that is so appealing to me now .... I suppose it is the 'New Jersey' mindset I was born with .... just hearing someone speak 'eastern' transports me to a comfortable place ....

You know ? .. I REALLY had better look into this Chicago thing .... there is just too much buzz there to ignore ....

[Erika]

45. Not to hurt anyone's feelings but

I have a very negative impression of Chicago. I thought the people were clicqish and quite cold. The sidewalks downtown are very narrow and the drivers are the rudest I've ever seen. My neice married a Chicago boy whose mother owned a small apartment building right on the "L". There were crack houses all around and the closest service station had bullet proof glass in the pay station.

My sister lives in South Bend and loves Chicago for shopping but keeps her car windows rolled up all the time while in the "city".

Does the airport still have those gaudy neon lights in the lower level? Sorry, but I couldn't see relocating to Chicago.