Fuck Woody Allen. Let's move on to Roman Polanski

[jpgray]

:crazy:

He answered the eternal question of "Does Lady Macbeth sleep in the nude?"

[asthmaticeog]

1. And who is that?

[Left Is Write]

15. You can't mean that?

You don't know who Roman Polanski is?

Famous movie director (Rosemary's Baby, Frantic, Chinatown, The Pianist, dozens of others). He was married to Sharon Tate and she was pregnant with his baby when she was brutally murdered by the Manson family.

He was convicted in the U.S. of having sex with a 13-year-old girl (statutory rape), and fled the country in order to avoid going to prison.

[asthmaticeog]

18. Isn't "brutally" kind of subjective?

;)

[Left Is Write]

21. Are you saying you think the murder of Sharon Tate

was NOT brutal?

[asthmaticeog]

23. Adjust your joke filter. It doesn't seem to be letting much through.

[Left Is Write]

31. Pardon me.

It didn't occur to me that someone might be joking about such an ugly murder.

If your "subjective" is a reference to any of the previously hashed over Woody Allen threads, then I missed it. I skipped most of the posts in those threads as I had no interest in debating Woody Allen.

My "joke filter" can hardly be held responsible for an "inside" joke of which I was unaware.

[Susang]

2. You're a braver man than I

:toast:

[Deja Q]

3. So are we supposed to fuck Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, or Lady McBeth?

:shrug:

[jpgray]

4. Don't make me start a spinoff poll. (nt)

[JimmyJazz]

5. The man's wife was 8 months pregnant when she and several

others were brutally murdered by members of the Manson Family. Okay, so he's fucked up in the head - who wouldn't be after that. I'm not trying to condone his behaviour, but I am saying that perhaps this is one of those instances where perhaps judgment should be reserved.

[CO Liberal]

6. Ah Yes - Another Worthless Child Molester/Director

She was only 13 if I remember correctly. Which is why Polanski has been living abroad for all these years.

[BoX o BooX]

7. Polanski raped a child.

Polanski is a convicted criminal.

He drugged and raped a child.

CO, you are trying to compare him to a man you just hate, who never drugged anybody, never raped anybody, never molested anybody.

Why do you say "another?" Can you name ONE other director who drugged, raped or molested a child?

You can't.

Get over it.

[CO Liberal]

9. Before I Go Any Further With This....

...I need to ask you a question?

How old are you?

Because if you're just a kid, I don't want to get into an argument.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BoX o BooX]

17. Ge, my original response was deleted.

For no good reason.

I'm a grown-up, pal. A multiple-degreed, educated, well-read, intelligent, open-minded, progressive GROWN-UP.

Try not to find reasons NOT to answer my questions. That's really a chickenshit way to debate. Why won't you just answer me?

[Bat Boy]

39. And then there was silence.

[CO Liberal]

43. Oh, I Believe The Mods Had Their Reasons...

Which is why I chose not to respond to you. You may be "a multiple-degreed, educated, well-read, intelligent, open-minded, progressive GROWN-UP", but you're acting awfully immature, IMHO.

[autorank]

11. Good questions.

Name me one director who seduced the 16 year old adopted daughter of his female life-partner?

Name me one director who prior to seducing the 16 year old adopted daughter of his female life-partner took nude pictures of her?

Name me one director who caused a Connecticut States Attorney to give a press conference reporting he couldn't indite the director for sexually abusing his 6 year old child but he wanted people to know it was for technical reasons and not because he wasn't convinced that the abuse took place?

I'm with you on Roman (even though I loved The 7th Gate) but Allen has no more business being free than *.

[BoX o BooX]

12. Nice try.

1) Changing Previn's age from 18 to 16 doesn't help your case. It just shows you're biased.

2) Regardless of what the Connecticut SA said, he chose not to indict. This is still America. Farrow was a woman scorned, plain and simple.

[autorank]

13. Belated Welcome to DU.

The kid was 16 when the Woodman started macking on her. No attempt to be sneaky here. The DA didn't care what Farrow said; he stuck his neck out, as other DA's do on occasion, because he thought the guy did it. I fail to see how Polanski's problems somehow absolve Allen's. He is a puke with poor boundaries who is the one who should be scorned.

[BoX o BooX]

14. Thanks for your welcome.

It's appreciated.

Can you point me to ONE link, ONE court document, ONE reputable news source that indicates Allen and Previn had a relationship when she was a minor? Because, frankly, if you cannot, you are guilty of libel.

And I am NOT attempting to absolve Allen of any (perceived) sins because of Polanski's actions. Polanski is a sexual predator; there is not just evidence to this effect, there is a conviction in a court of law. Allen not only has no convictions for any crimes, there is NO evidence that he has ever committed a crime.


edited for the lack of a space

[autorank]

16. Dude, chill

First of all, it's unseemly to accuse people of a crime on a forum of like-minded political folks. I can say anything I want about this period as long as I have some basis in to make the statement. I don't need court records. I paid great attention to this at the time since I've got a blood-feud with anyone who messes with adopted children in any way period (guess why). Here's a link to get you started. I'm not going to do any more research but this was generally reported and agreed to.

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9702/05/farrow.book/

The happy aftermath continues for the other children.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,442,00.html

You obviously love Allen, which is fine but don't attack me because I'm telling you things you don't like to hear.

[BoX o BooX]

20. I'm ALL chilly, sweetie.

You link to a review of Farrow's book and an E! story?

Shame on you.

If you're going to accuse a man of a heinous crime, you need better sources. Shame on you.

This WAS what was reported. It was BY NO MEANS what was "agreed to."

We live in a nation of LAWS. These accusations and innuendoe are NOT FACTS.

It's odd that you think I love Allen; I am largely indifferent to everything he's done since 'Bananas.' Call me zany. I simply believe that persons should be judged upon their actions, not upon accusations by others.

I am sorry that you felt I attacked you personally. It was never my intention. Your story is your own, as is mine. All I ask is that you cease libeling a man whose personal life has stood up to the harshest scrutiny, and come out intact.

Let the man and his wife and children be, already.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

56. yes it is too bad Mia didn't scorn him years earlier

[NashVegas]

55. And the Funniest Thing of All

Is there's a video documentary bio of Polanski where Mia Farrow herself presents the apology: "but she looked so much older than 13."

Fuck 'em.

[Cheswick2.0]

53. I can name another one

Woody Allen, I don't know if he drugged her but he did molest and rape her.

[Beware the Beast Man]

57. Were you there?

:shrug:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

62. Oh jeez - here we go!

[arwalden]

71. How Would You Know That? What An OUTRAGEOUS Thing To Say!!

[Bat Boy]

83. Where did you get that information?

Even in the worst accusations that floated around at the time the scandal broke I don't think the word "rape" was used.

I'm dying to know your source on this.

[Donkeyboy75]

85. Gasoline, meet fire.

Fire, gasoline.

[miss_kitty]

26. whose mother dressed her up like a tart, by all accounts

thanks for weighing in again. Everyone REALLY appreciates your input on these threads. We have no idea how you feel about child molestation. But your wife thinks it's funny I was.:evilfrown:

[Susang]

28. Wha?

I hope that last sentence was a joke. It was a joke, right? Nobody could possibly think that it was funny that you were molested as a child, could they? :mad: :nuke:

[BoX o BooX]

29. I saw it.

If it gets hidden or deleted or something, I saw it, and I will never forget it.

[miss_kitty]

34. I won't forget it either

apparently, she found it to be such a 'LOL' knee slapper, She posted another LOL message 5 minutes later.

such good taste.

[miss_kitty]

30. she did it twice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2052297#2052483

scroll down.

[Susang]

33. Wow

I'm sorry. I really am. That's one supremely fucked up POV, IMHO. :mad:

I'll not discuss it here further, out of respect to the OP and to keep this thread from getting locked. ;-)

[BoX o BooX]

37. Kitty was being polite.

COLiberal and MrsCOLiberal (now known as the Princess) later posted THIS thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2053100

It's locked now, and soon it will not exist... unpleasant posts tend to disappear.

[miss_kitty]

42. so I guess two times was not enough

what a sad avaricious existence she must lead. To think that cruelty is a laugh riot. To not understand what I said and consider it a challenge. I pity people like that, and put them on ignore. Her statements are a reflection of her, not of me.

[Beware the Beast Man]

60. That is sick and tasteless.

I don't care if someone else has gone through the same situation. It doesn't give you carte blanche to crack jokes about it.

[Phillycat]

63. I totally agree.

See my post below.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

74. Well according to the Prince it was "irony"

[skygazer]

61. Wow

Sick, tasteless and incredibly hypocritical all wrapped into one. Very sad.

[sir_captain]

27. Why do you keep coming into these threads?

Don't you realize the irony of posting very publically in ATA complaining about a poster, and then turning around and doing precisely what you were complaining about? If these threads piss you off so much, just put them on ignore...

[miss_kitty]

32. apparent reading and comprehension problems

JMO anyway.

[sir_captain]

38. Huh?

My bad... didn't realize who replied... Sorry about that...

[miss_kitty]

41. I am Happily happily enough not that person's wife

I was making a joke! i had another answer and glad I looked up to see you changed your answer!

:hi:

[CO Liberal]

44. Why Do People Keep Posting These Threads????

Perhaps it's because they're too immature to know what they're doing. And maturity has nothing to do with age.

[Wat_Tyler]

45. One of the things you learn with age is when to let go of a subject.

If you do not want to discuss Roman Polanski, please do not disrupt our discussion. You have the option of not opening a thread you do not like, or even to ignore it. The choice is yours.

[CO Liberal]

47. And One Thing YOU'LL Hopefull Learn....

...is when to stop beating a dead horse.

[Susang]

51. This post is the definition of Irony

[Wat_Tyler]

52. What am I doing that you find objectionable?

[miss_kitty]

49. I can't believe these two

are still on the dicks of people they profess to revile. In a prima facie reading of the situation I'd say it's possible they are doing the opposite of what they say.

I of course can't see what they are saying because after the unwarranted personal attacks launched on me, I've put them on Ignore.

:evilgrin:

[Metatron]

54. Then you must be psychic!

[miss_kitty]

58. hardly.

i would consider it 'predictable behaviour'. :hi:

[sir_captain]

46. If you truly think

that you have displayed a show of maturity over the last day or so, then I guess we have nothing to argue about...

[CO Liberal]

48. These Threads are So Offensive To Many Of Us

Especially those of us who are parents and those who were the victims of abuse. If you can't grasp that concept, then that's your problem.

[Phillycat]

50. I think this is a very hypocritical post.

Your wife posted a thread entitled "My molestation is worse than yours!" yesterday that was in the poorest taste of anything I've ever seen on this website. You don't think that was offensive to victims of abuse? Well, as a SURVIVOR of abuse, I can tell you it sure as hell was. In fact, I summarily put both of you on ignore. But then I thought, no, I want to see what they'll say now.

The hypocrisy is stunning. Your wife will defend Pete Townshend to the death, mocking people who find him distasteful after kiddie porn was found on his computer, but woe betide anyone who enjoys Woody Allen's movies. What the hell?

I used to think you were both kind of weird but basically harmless. After this last business, I think...something else. I doubt you'll see me reply to any of your threads from now on.

[Beware the Beast Man]

66. Extremely hypocritical.

The same woman who uses her victimization as an excuse to go on a screed about the evils of religion, yet feels it okay to make a joke about others. I couldn't give a damn if this gets deleted, just thought you should know.

And another thing: learning disabilities STILL aren't funny either.

[Phillycat]

68. Someone made fun of learning disabilities?

[miss_kitty]

69. That thread was a personal attack on me

I am leaving them on ignore. I KNOW what they're saying.

[CO Liberal]

80. Please Get Your Facts Straight

Pete Townshend was EXONERATED of any wrong-doing. Which is more than we can say about ol' Woody.

And since my wife is also an abuse survivor, she was trying to point out the absurdity of one person caliming their abuse was worse than someone else's. Guess you missed the irony...

I for one am getting tired of all these Woody Allen threads. I will continue to point out how I feel that the pervert is undeserving of praise, and continue to ask the mods to lock these threads as counterproductive.

And if you decide not to reply to me any more, that's your decision.

[Beware the Beast Man]

81. No irony needed in such a case.

"Some" of us don't think it's "absurd."

[Goldmund]

84. What's with the constant "my wife" business?

Can't she speak for herself?

Why don't you just have a single username if you're always going to double-team and speak for each other, and express an invariably monolithic point of view?

[CO Liberal]

86. We Are Life Partners

She usually speaks for herself. And I usually speak for myself. And at times, we speak for each other. And when someone attacks her, I stand up for her. And vice versa. That's what married people do - they stand up for each other, support each other, and defend each other.

And in case you haven't noticed, we don't have a "monolothic point of view" - she has her opinions and I have mine.

[Goldmund]

87. No, I haven't noticed

or at least I haven't noticed any contradictions arise between your point of view and hers, ever. Of course, I'm making an inductive statement based on what I have seen, so I may be wrong.

But this is a message board. And that means "you are what you write" -- in other words, since the only contact we have with each other are the opinions we express, we are to each other _defined_ as the set of posts we have written.

Therefore, who or what posters are outside of that scope is totally irrelevant. Whatever you (generic "you") say about your "real" life could be a lie or a truth, and more importantly, it's utterly weak to introduce your real-life relationships as a weapon in debate. Of course, we all sometimes fuck around in the Lounge and talk about things, but that's not what I'm talking about -- I'm talking about the main substance of this site, which is political, ideological, philosophical debate.

And the first axiom of such debates is that they are made out of arguments, not of arguers. A good argument is valid regardless of who formulated it. Productive debate is a debate between two sets of arguments, not between two posters (no matter what their ages, let me add).

So in other words, nobody can possibly attack your wife here. Nobody even knows your wife here. If there is an ad-hominem attack, it's an attack on an abstract formulation of a person based on his or her posts. So in other words, there's no need to flex your husbandly muscles and come galloping on your horse in defense of your wife. Your wife doesn't exist here. Only her posts do.

Now, of course, many times you'll see a debate and you'll join a "side", incidentally. But again, that "side" needs to be independent from your personal relationship outside of the debate. Nobody here cares who your wife is and whether another poster is your wife. It doesn't lend credibility to her or to you, and frankly, your constant emphasis on labeling her as "my wife" diminishes it.

[sir_captain]

65. Likewise

the bullying and hypocrisy that your "arguments" have shown -- mind you, i'm not criticizing you, but your arguments -- have been offensive to many, and if you can't grasp *that* concept, which it seems that you cannot, then that's *your* problem.

Edit: as a note, you say that *many* have been offended, but as far as I can tell, it's just you and your wife... Of course you absolutely have your right to your own opinion, but is there really anyone else who's agreeing with you?

[Goldmund]

82. I thought it did

weren't you suggesting yesterday that all under-18 posters be marked?

[Cush]

8. Lois: "Stewie,what are you doing?"

Stewie: "Playing house"

Lois: "Why is that boy tied up?"

Stewie "...Roman Polanski's House"

[Wat_Tyler]

19. Notice that 'Van Helsing' is basically 'Fearless Vampire Hunters'?

[WMliberal]

25. oh no, are you serious?!?!

I LOVE FVH!!!!!!!!! I haven't seen Van Helsing bc of everything I've heard of it.

Sharon Tate was SOOOOOOOOOO Hot. The storyline is brilliant. The narrator as the voice of 1950's establishment/authority was nothing of genius when coupled with the ending.

[Wat_Tyler]

35. There are some pretty major similarities.

[tjdee]

36. What his victim says about it:

"What he does for a living and how good he is at it have nothing to do with me or what he did to me."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2793465.stm

Which is true, but Polanski is one punk ass and I wish someone would beat him within an inch of his life every now and then. It was many years ago and apparently he's not made a habit of this behavior--but he ran like a little prick while his victim was humiliated. Not cool.
If it were my daughter I'd want him to be hunted down and thrown in a hole.

The Pianist, however, was a fine film and a major role for my sweet baby Adrien. :loveya:

[WI_DEM]

59. No time for Roman Polanski

and it sickens me that many in Hollywood champion him--like Jack Nicholson and the like. He may be a very gifted director but he is a child rapist and fled to avoid prosecution.

[Wat_Tyler]

64. What is the actual real story?

Everyone talks about it, but no-one seems to know the actual details. What exactly did Polanski do, and what exactly was he charged with?

[miss_kitty]

67. He was charged of having sex with a 13 yo girl

however it was, I believe a set up job-I don't read gossip, but I am not above passing it along}(-I remember hearing Momma was pushy and-I think the term used was-'presented' her daughter to Polanski all made up to look older and stuff. I don't recall hearing if he said he thought she was older or anything. But i got the distinct impression Momma might have pimped her kid, trying to get her into the flicks.

[WI_DEM]

70. right, Roman had no idea it was a child

that is why he couldn't stay and take it like a man and has been on the run for nearly 30 years.

[Wat_Tyler]

73. Who knows why he ran?

While suspicious, the fact that he fled is not indicative of guilt.

[Metatron]

75. He ran to escape indictment.

Here is bio from the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/2712371.stm
It doesn't have a lot on this particular matter but it does touch on it. I didn't know about his childhood history, though.

[Wat_Tyler]

76. Yeah, I'm sure that's why he ran.

I guess what I meant was 'who knows what was going on in his head - was he guilty or was he scared of being set-up?'

[Metatron]

77. Maybe he was already charged - the article doesn't make it clear.

Sorry for any confusion.

[miss_kitty]

78. I did not say that, did I

"I don't recall hearing if he said he thought she was older or anything"

Please read before you reply.

[Wat_Tyler]

72. Did he know how old she was?

Did he actually have sex with her?
Was it an attempt at blackmail?

[miss_kitty]

79. Here's a link the trial transcript

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html It's her testimony.

from tsg link

"Following his indictment on various sex charges, Polanski agreed to a plea deal that spared him prison time (he had spent about 45 days in jail during a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation). But when it seemed that a Superior Court judge might not honor the deal--and sentence Polanski to prison--the director fled the country." from tsg link

[mitchum]

88. Pretentious, youngstuff-loving dwarf