Artest Suspended 30 Games

[Champ]

Here is the count,

Ron Artest -- 30 Games
Stephen Jackson -- 20 Games
Jermaine O'Neal -- 20 Games
Ben Wallace -- 5 Games

<snip>
Police said Saturday about a half-dozen people have been treated for injuries after a fight between Detroit Piston fans and Indiana players.

Most were treated at the Pistons' home arena, while two went to a local hospital. Michigan police are talking to witnesses and reviewing videotape, and officers also plan to talk to the players involved.

An Auburn Hills deputy chief said police hope to present the case to prosecutors "before Thanksgiving." He said the Oakland County Prosecutors Office will then decide whether to file charges.
http://www.theomahachannel.com/sports/3937171/detail.html

I pretty much agree with the rulings, but no one would be talking about this if Wallace reacted the way he did after a hard foul. But I agree with the ruling because all he did was push and attempting to charge Ron Artest as well as throwing a towell on him plus he kept it all on the court.

[PDittie]

1. Well, he wanted to take a break

to promote his CD.

And two months off around the holidays ain't bad for anybody.

BTW, I think Artest got suspended because he went into the stands and beat the shit out of a skinny white guy with glasses (who was stupid enough to throw a cup full of ice at him, and deserved the beating he got).

[Zynx]

2. The skinny white dude didn't throw shit

The guy who threw the cup was in a blue shirt with a white hat. He herded Artest past him onto the nerd, then jumped Artest from behind and tried to choke him out.

Nerdy white dude is now going to be very, very rich.

[Champ]

5. He may of thought it was him

I'm not sure because I wasn't in Artest's position but it can be very possible to not know exactly who threw it but know which direction it came from. Plus how did we get to nerdy white dude? Do any of us know him?

[PDittie]

21. I said skinny, not nerdy

and if he didn't actually do the throwin', then yeah, skinny four-eyes is prolly gonna get a big payday in civil court.

[Guaranteed]

7. See, now, did you actually SEE that happen, or is that just what you

heard?

That "guy with a hat" thing is being repeated around here an awful lot.

[Champ]

4. As well as running out into the court well after the game has been called

And squaring up with a fan.

[Guaranteed]

Uhhh, no that's not what happened.

Everyone's got an opinion on this, but they don't even know what happened.

[jobycom]

17. Fill us in

I'm totally accepting that I don't have all the facts. What did you disagree with?

[Champ]

18. That did happen

I was watching ESPN News immediately after the game(which I watched lived - Pacers fan), they interupted with what they were saying to give a report it included Artest and O'neal ran out onto the court and squared up with fans, O'neal knocked one down. They have video clips of this!

[Guaranteed]

20. No, the part that didn't happen was them

running out onto the court from the locker room and squaring up with fans. Artest was on the court, he didn't leave, after coming down out of the stands while security was trying to get things in order. Those two fans walked out onto the court toward HIM, and tried to pick a fight with HIM. He hit the one guy, and someone grabbed him and pulled him back. Then O'Neal came along and knocked the shit out of the other guy.

[Champ]

24. Your right

I probaly heard that statement wrong and only seeing single video clips of it led me to that conclusion. <snip>and at least two fans walked onto the court to challenge Artest and O'Neal.</snip>
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-fans21nov21,0,493476.story?coll=sfla-news-florida

[chenGOD]

22. Artest and O'Neal were already on the court.

The "fan" ran onto the court in a boxing pose, and then realised that he was severly outmatched and proceeded to get justifiably clocked by Artest. He then proceeded to get dropped again by O'Neal.

[MikeG]

3. Good. Good. Effing. Good.

[Guaranteed]

6. Psssh. Fuck that bullshit.

And all you acting like this is a good thing obviously didn't even see what happened.

[Champ]

8. Alonzo Mourning on Artest

<snip>

Mourning, a former Players Association vice president, said the Detroit fan who hurled a beverage at Artest - provoking the Pacers forward to run into the stands and attack a fan - should be arrested.

"When your level of intensity is that high during the course of that game and you just separated yourself from an altercation and something like that happens, some people react without thinking - I can attest to that," Mourning said Saturday. "I am almost sure that if Ron knew it would have turned into that particular melee, I'm sure he probably wouldn't have done it. You are human. He reacted without thinking. Is that his fault? Hell no, it is not his fault."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10237802.htm?1c

[Guaranteed]

10. He's right- it's not his fault.

A man can only take so much shit before he starts hitting back.

[Champ]

12. I agree

I stated that in other arguments. He kept excersized alot of self-control after a hard-shove, having someone yell comments and charge after you at as well as fans yelling out probaly terrible comments (given how many of the Pacer's Rival's fans detest Artest, I don't like to attend pro games because of some of the things fans say that are widely accepted around the stadium. And then have a towell thrown at you as well being charged at again all before having a beer thrown at you.

[jobycom]

25. Bull Frickin Shit

If he can't handle it, he needs to be banned for life, not 30 games.

Mourning is right, the fan needs to be arrested for assault. The cops or stadium security should have been on him before any of the players had a chance to be. And I know Artest gets a lot of crap from a lot of people, and doesn't deserve half of it.

But if the NBA lets its players run into the stands and confront fans, it is done as a viable business. No matter how provoked Artest was, he can't do that. If he can't take more shit than the fans can dish out, then the NBA shouldn't have him on the court, because he's a liability to their business. This whole macho "We settle everything by pounding the shit out of anyone who wrongs us" crap is why I seldom watch the NBA or MLB anymore. Hell, it's the main reason I voted for Kerry, too.

The other side is the NBA is guilty of not protecting their players better. If a fan can throw dangerous objects at a player and not be immediately arrested by waiting security, then the NBA doesn't have enough security to protect either the players or the fans.

[Guaranteed]

29. You're saying it yourself- it's the fans, not him.

The fans are the ones that need to get their shit together. Yeah, it would have been BETTER if he hadn't gone into the stands, but I sure as hell don't hold it against him after what he's been through.

[tx_dem41]

32. Agree about all that Artest has been through

I mean that cup of ice must have smarted mightily.

[Guaranteed]

37. Heh you're a funny man.

But, that Ben Wallace- man, did he ever get fouled when Artest came over his back a little bit!

[chenGOD]

44. Have you ever been hit with a full cup of beer/ice thrown from

20 feet away coming down on top of you? That would hurt.

And I'll repeat what I've said to others. If anyone threw a cup of beer at me, they had better be ready to back it up, because I would respond with fists.

[tx_dem41]

45. And if you didn't know who threw beer at you....

Then you would just start swinging indiscriminately?

If so, get used to incarceration.

[chenGOD]

48. He didn't start swinging indiscriminately, he zeroed in on that one guy.

I know I know, he got the wrong guy, but that guy wasn't shying away. If I saw some guy who was taunting me after one of his buddies (looked like they were sitting right next to each other), I'd take a poke at him too.

Fact of the matter is, the one fan doesn't throw that cup, none of this happens. Yeah Artest freaked out, he got punished. Do I think he was in the wrong? Not really. Does he deserve a 30 game suspension? No, more like 10, but the NBA wants to clamp down and make an example.

Detroit should have to play the remainder of this season in an empty arena.

[tx_dem41]

50. I'm confused by your ethics...

You admit he swung at the wrong guy, but you don't see anything wrong with it?? Weird.

And then you say he did nothing wrong, but you would STILL give him a 10 game suspension? Why? He did nothing wrong in your eyes!

Why can't everyone involved be wrong. That's what I call personal responsibility. That's a good tenet to live by, and that is what appears to be happening. Wallace and 3 Pacers punished. Responsible fans investigated by the police. Sounds good to me.

[chenGOD]

53. I wouldn't give him a suspension at all...

That's what I think the NBA should have given him. They have to do something, because otherwise they would be seen as being weak on discipline. I understand that position from them.

He swung at the wrong guy, who was taunting him and shouting who knows what. Plus he wasn't backing down, so Artest had no idea of who had thrown it. If you hadn't thrown that cup but it was the drunk asshole next to you, wouldn't you be pointing that out by wildly gesticulating at the guy that did throw it?

Personal responsibility, yeah sounds great. But sometimes personal responsibility demands you stand up for yourself. As I posted above, if I got humiliated like that I would definitely answer back.

[Champ]

54. Also according to the video of a fan witness

He said Artest was yelling to the guy "Did you throw it?"

http://www.clickondetroit.com/index.html

Click on fan punched (by Stephen Jackson) reacts on melee.

[tx_dem41]

65. Wow.....

How old are you?

Have you ever heard of "innocent before proven guilty"? You want to turn it on its head by saying that someone has to be "wildly gesticuluating" (i.e. accusing another person) to be "proven innocent"?

Are you sure you're on the right message board?

How was Artest being humiliated? Last I saw he was making an ass of himself lying on his back on a scoring table in Detroit? I thought he was a basketball player? Oh well, not all of us can be a fan of sports. Some of us (I guess you) just love drama. Maybe someday you'll love the game. Have you played it before? It can be a lot of fun.

[tx_dem41]

52. And by the way...

Swinging at the wrong guy, is a textbook example of swinging "indiscriminately". Think about it.

Your saying, that having a friend that is an asshole, makes one guilty too. Then, let me say, we're all GUILTY at times.

[jobycom]

39. I said it's both.

Players have to control themselves. They are the ones making the money to be there. They are the ones paid to put up with the crap that goes on in the stadium. The moment Artest stepped into the seats, he was wrong, no matter what had happened before.

And by wrong I mean bad business. I don't think he should be arrested, he didn't start it. But the NBA has to suspend him hard. They can't leave it up to the players to decide when they've had enough, when they can go into the stands and attack a fan. The players can never go into the stands, no matter how hurt their poor little feelings get. They should know that before, after and at every stage during the game. Going into the stands should be as forbidden as gambling or throwing a game, it should be ingrained into their psyche, it should be sacred. The way you make it sacred is by punishing the Hell out of anyone who violates it, no matter the cause.

As for fans getting their shit together, there's a reason I don't go to pro games very often. Fans are drunk, loud, usually stupid, and probably Republican to boot. They will never get their shit together, it's just one of the obstacles of the game. You have ten foot hoops, you have to ignore the fans-- that's the rules, that's what you get paid to do. The NBA should know this, and should take better precautions.

[bo44]

51. The fans blew it yeah yeah yeah but Artest could cave gotten killed

But only a moron with a slim grip on his sanity would plunge into a crowd of people and start fighting. What's to keep the rest of the Auburn palace from rushing the court and going medieval after seeing visiting players kicking the crap out their fellows? If just a thousand Pistons fans went on the court to kick some ass we would not be debating whether or not Artest is in the clear but, what a moron he was for trying to take on an angry mob and how tragic the outcome was for his team mates and coaches.

[Guaranteed]

56. For the record, he kicked ass.

I'm glad he did.

Those fans are PIECES OF SHIT. Every single of one of them that tried to pull that shit.

They tried to GANG UP ON HIM. They used a MOB MENTALITY, and he kicked the crap out of them on an individual basis. MORE POWER.

[Champ]

34. I agree - but was it his fault?

Having a beer thrown on him after not reacting to a handful of provoktions, he actually did what he could to leave the situation alone rather then escalating it. The fans however were taunting, throwing objects and started going after Pacer players who were trying to brake up the fight. Chuck Person got trampeled on, no one mentions the few Pacer players who got injured who had nothing to do with the melee. I say many of the fans were the ones that started the melee in the stands.

[progmom]

58. Joby - good post.

I think that taking the position that it was either only the fans' fault or only the players' fault is pretty ridiculous. Whether you're an NBA star or a cubicle dweller, a certain amount of self-restraint is expected. It's never ok to attack someone like that - and I'm talking both about the drink/ice thrower and the players.

[tx_dem41]

31. I agree...and a cup of ice was WAY TOO MUCH

If Artest hadn't leaped into the stands and punched the daylights out of someone...anyone...even if it might not have been the guy who threw the ice...then I wholeheartedly agree that Artest would NOT be a man. :eyes:

[Guaranteed]

35. Well, he was certainly man enough to shake it off when Ben Wallace

shoved him across the floor about 2 minutes beforehand. And then Wallace coming at him over and over. And the fans yelling insults at him while he was laying there, trying to calm down...and finally a cup of some kind of cold liquid landing all over his chest. What could bring a man to just *SNAP* like that?

It's a mystery.

[tx_dem41]

38. My guess is one of two choices...

Mental defect or immaturity. I'll go for immaturity. How about you?

[Guaranteed]

40. When a man's getting ganged up on, physically and

verbally, he's got a right to defend himself.

[tx_dem41]

42. First...

He got shoved once. Admittedly a strong shove, but after that, the refs were getting control of the situation. Ben was calming down.

As for verbal abuse...you have got to be kidding me. You are saying that Artest has the right to leap into the stands and indiscriminately start punching fans because of booing.

And, don't even mention the cup of ice. I think that is what security is for. Artest needs to be a man and exercise control.

[Guaranteed]

55. He was being ganged up on. He was already angry and on edge.

That fan deliberately provoked him- he knew what he was doing- and got what he deserved.

That's it.

[tx_dem41]

66. Wait a second....

The fan that you say deliberately provoked him, was not the guy that Artest initially hit. How do you feel about that poor guy? Do you feel like justice should be arbitrarily meted out by individuals who feel like people should "get what they deserve"?

May I suggest the Republican Party for you? You will have a hell of a lot of friends.

[tx_dem41]

49. Second....

In the last two-three weeks, Artest has tried to walk out on his TEAM and his CONTRACT. On Friday, he violated the terms of his contract (and the collective bargaining agreement his union signed with the league) by blatantly breaking its rules. A "MAN" honors his commitments. Artest is not a "MAN".

[Socialist Dem]

9. Artest should have gotten a lot more games than the others

He was the first one in (so to speak)

I still haven't seen or heard why he thought it was a good idea to lay down on the scorer's table while the fans were yelling at him.

[Champ]

11. Only he knows

I don't believe he has released a statement after the melee.

[jobycom]

13. Good. Should have been longer.

Not on Wallace, but on the ones who went in the stands.

30 games at least opens some eyes. He should have been banned for life, with the possibility for reinstatement after a year and certain conditions, like anger management, etc. I don't think AM would help much, but the NBA needs to worry about symbolism at this point. They are on the verge of becoming the WWF with all their bad press over the last few years--drugs, illegite kids, violence. They don't need the reputation of allowing fights to spill off the floor, even if some of the fans deserved their asses kicked.

Some of the players should have grounds for a lawsuit against the NBA, though, for not providing safer working conditions. Someone needs tighter security and the authorization to arrest fans more quickly, rather than letting fans throw things at the player and then stand around not afraid of any repurcussions. The moment a fan throws something, he should be taken down on the floor and cuffed, and that way the players wouldn't have to handle it themselves.

Someone above implied that there was a race factor. Hell yes, there is. The NBA is seen as a "black" league, and the media plays along with all those cultural stereotypes I mentioned above. Black people are more prone to violence, to having bastard children, to using drugs, blablabla. It isn't true, by any objective standard, but the media (including movies and music) make people believe it anyway, and the NBA gets smacked with that image. They need to be more involved as an organization in fighting that image, the way the NFL has been. You have fights in hockey all the time, but it doesn't get smeared with that same charge of reckless violence.

That's my opinion. The NBA takes a big hit on this one no matter what they do. They need to turn it into an opportunity to clean up their image, or they won't have an image soon.

[Guaranteed]

15. Anger MANAGEMENT??

Did you SEE the shit that guy went through????

[jobycom]

27. Did he not lose control? nt

[Guaranteed]

28. He was being repeatedly provoked. Physically.

He hit back, as was his right.

All I ask is that you put yourself in his place. Ask yourself what you would do if you'd gone through everything he'd just gone through.

[jobycom]

47. Well, then, that's where we have a fundamental, irreconcilable difference

I say he had no right to hit back, under any circumstance. I'm not defending the fan, but returning the violence was wrong, morally and in terms of what a player should be expected to do.

I don't really care, I guess. If that's the product the NBA puts on the floor, I won't watch it. I won't bring my kids to see it, I won't buy their merchandise. Not as a protest, but just because I don't like that product. If the NBA can afford to lose me as a fan, then they can go with your opinion. If they want to keep me, they need to listen to mine. I don't want to pay to watch players lose their temper and attack fans, or each other, no matter what they've been through. So it's a question of marketing-- do they want my business, or don't they? I'm not saying he should be arrested, I'm saying his boss should punish him to make sure that he, and any of their other employees, get the message that the game stays on the floor.

I live in Austin, I have an NBA team an hour away, and two more three hours away. I also have two MLB, two NFL, and one NHL team the same distance, and a top twenty college team just across town. I'm a big sports fan--in fact, this will be my last post for a while because the games are about to start. I'm their market-- it's just a question of whether they want me or not.

[Zynx]

61. No, it wasn't his right

Try to whup someone's ass for throwing a drink on you and see how much trouble each of you get in.

Even if Artest had gotten the right guy, there is no justification for the use of deadly force, which is what a physical assault from someone that size is considered under the law.

[Guaranteed]

63. If someone deliberately throws a drink on you and you beat them,

legally you are not liable.

[LSdemocrat]

14. Fine as long as they harshly prosecute some of the "fans"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. As A Heat Fan This Is The Best News Signing Shaq (nt)

I hope some fan-player fights break out among the Maverics, Spurs, and Grizzlies then my man Shaq can get his fourth ring...

[Champ]

23. LOL

The unfortanate thing the Pacers are going to have to win some guys without their best players. They're a deep team, they should be alright.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. They Weren't Deep Enough To Get Past The Magic Last Night...

I think the Heat are the second or third best team in the East but will struggle against elite West Coast teams...

But they have a shot if Wade and Shaq continue to mesh...

[Champ]

30. I said to be alright

They will probaly hover around .500 for the next 20 games.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Do You Think Detroit Wins The East Again...

It's them , the Heat , or the Pacers...

[Champ]

46. No

They got dominated by an undermanned Pacers team at home (The result of the game is overshadowed by this incident) and defense didn't pick up from last year. I just don't see the same defense I saw last year, but that could change. I think the East comes down to the Heat, Pacers, Cleveland, and Orlando. Those squads I feel are the most talented.

[lpbk2713]

19. All Detroit home games should be forfeited.

That should send a message to the Detroit punks who are inclined to get rowdy.

[name not needed]

33. Hand the championship to the Knicks

That'll show em.

[Bertha Venation]

36. Good. Professional athletes behaving this way is unacceptable.

I don't care who taunts them. I don't care if assholes throw trash & drinks at them onto the court/field (yeah, they can slip. If they're injured, they can avail themselves of the Great American Tradition of Litigation).

They are professionals, and as such IMO they ought to have the ability to rein themselves in when emotions run high. If they can't or won't, they should quit.

The worst offenders among the bball players ought to go before the Detroit fans and say "the fans who participated were obviously in the wrong. So was I and I apologize."

[UrbScotty]

41. This is the best I've felt since the election!

;-)

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. They had better ban some fans from games is all I am saying. That

was horrid, disgusting and a slap in the face of all fans who manage to control themselves during games. Let us now focus our attention on that. Lifetime banishment, no less, for these fans.

[alarimer]

59. Didn't Artest start the whole thing in the first place?

By fouling the guy in a very blatant way (the one that then shoved Artest). I hate, hate, hate basketball. Actually most professional sports. Overgrown, spoiled brats is all they are. I agree that the fans sucked too. Drunken idiots.

[Guaranteed]

60. No. It wasn't a bad foul at all. Seriously.

Wallace, the guy Artest fouled, had just fouled Artest badly on the other side of the court, though, and it was uncalled, and knew he had gotten away with it. So his guilty conscience reacted.

Artest was absolutely the bigger man during this whole incident until he finally broke when that fan hit him.

[alarimer]

62. Still it is all just a bunch of juvenile bullshit

I can't beleive actual grownups (who are being paid to play a GAME) do this sort of thing. You can at least blame the fan's behavior on alcohol.

[Champ]

67. Like Stephen A. said

Don't let some fans hide behind alcohol, many of them were being cowards. Many of them wanted to join the fight so they joined the ones where there were 6 around a single Indiana player. Not all of them were drinking.

[Uzybone]

64. Sounds about right

harsher than I thought it would be but they needed to be harsh. Jackson should have gotten 25 games. His behaviour in some ways was worse than Artest. Those "fans" who stepped on the court and the bozo who started it by throwing ice should see some jail time though. Thats the only just way.

[UNIXcock]

68. Good! @ $8,000,000/year the thugs can show some restraint

I hope the NBA Commissioner keeps up the pressure on any asshole(s) that cannot control his temper on the court.

[Champ]

70. Hockey players lose their temper more then anyone I have seen

But I don't see anyone labeling them thugs.

[UNIXcock]

71. WTF does hockey have to do with basketball?

... or, if a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a minute and a half, then how log would it take a monkey with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?

... WTF yo?

[Champ]

74. Nothing, that wasn't my point

Hockey players can lose their tempers and have a brawl in the center of the ice and just get 2 minutes in the penalty box(with the exception of that play where the dude broke the guy's neck, don't recall anyone calling him a thug though). They get excused for their behavior because it is just part of the game. Artest who majored in mathematics and has 4 children is labeled a thug as well as O'neal who is actively involved with the Boys and Girls club and hosts basketball tournaments during the offseason. Also not to mention an incredibly sweet thing he did last spring. It is unfortanate how many people don't realize how much pro athletes contribute to society but as an american society we treat them like fighting pit bull dog owners do instead of people like me and you who play a GAME. I wish I could watch a clean hard fought game and that's what it was til 45.7 seconds left in the game, I blame Wallace for reacting the way he did after a foul, Stephen Jackson for continually looking for a fight, and about 1,000-5,000 (estimate) disgraceful fans as well as Artest. But that hardly makes them all thugs, it was high energy game vs two divison rivals who met each other in the Eastern Conference Finals last year. Of course emotions were high between the fans, players of the two teams. It all just clashed together and erupted into a riot.

[Chimpanzee]

69. If I was the guy in the stands that got attacked

I would press assault and battery charges against Artest and sue the MF for mucho bucks.

[jakefrep]

72. Hopefully your suit would be thrown out of court..

..because you provoked the fight by throwing a beer at him.

[Chimpanzee]

73. No, The guy he attacked was not the guy that threw it.