Paul Hamm is an idiot for not giving back the gold medal

[iceman_419]

He could become one of the most respected athletes in the world if he did and it would set up a great comeback in 2008. All he has to do is give back the medal and give some sort of emotional speech and say that he will work for the gold in 2008. That would mean big rating for the Olympics in 2008 and sympathy for Hamm and people everywhere watch to see if Hamm can really win the gold. If he does, which I'm sure he can, than that would mean huge endorsement deals and advertisement deals. Even though it is not his fault that he got the gold, Hamm is taking the low road by acting this way.

[Nlighten1]

1. I disagree.

If he gives it back it might pave the way for everyone to complain and try to get someone's medal taken away.

[displacedtexan]

2. I guess being a worldwide hero...

is less important than owning a piece of chest candy.

I sort of missed the whole story, but what kind of product endorsements does a disputed medal wearer get?

[stevebreeze]

3. yup he did not win even .... any bet he is a publican?

jock from Waukesha WI? I'll lay ten to on odds!

[NC_Nurse]

4. I thought he should have given

it back when the mistake first came to light. He would have been honored for his graciousness and sportmanship. Instead, Americans have another "ME, ME, ME, mine, mine, mine! " infant representing us. So short-sighted and stoopid.
Sigh...

[Ediacara]

5. And the South Koreans are taking the stupid road

By knowing the rules, yet disregarding them.

Hamm should have won silver, there's no dispute there, but the responsibility was on the South Korean coaches to talk to the judges at the proper time.

Paul Hamm should not be demonized and punished because the South Korean coaches are idiots who chose to disregard the rules.

[NC_Nurse]

9. They were told to wait to

protest. Besides, I don't hear anyone "demonizing" Hamm, just criticizing him for not being SMART and mature. Maybe that's too much to expect from today's athletes, it used to be a major part of sportsmanship.

[Ediacara]

12. I guess calling him an idiot is not demonizing....

None of the "scandal" is Hamm's fault.

Also, I have not heard the S Koreans were told to wait, where did you hear that?

[Cheswick2.0]

36. no they weren't told to wait

even the korean gymnast admits that.

[Cheswick2.0]

35. There is a dispute there

The Korean should give back his bronze since the judges failed to take away 2/10ths of a point he lost when he had 4 "holds" in his program.

[bo44]

41. That's right Dinoboy

The idiots are demonstrating pure crybaby sportsmanship. They fucked up and got hosed. Shut the fuck and go home. Crying ass punks. Paul Hamm won the medal, he stood on the podium, he played by the rules everybody else can get cheneyed.

[TNMOM]

44. What if it was an American whose score was incorrectly

calculated and the gold was awarded to another country? Would your positon be the same? I think in all fairness, most Americans would be raising HELL if Paul Hamm was denied the gold because of a miscalculation --something that is a technial error, rather than a subjective judging error. The mistake here was not a subjective judement of the performance by judges. Everyone complaining about the four holds that the Korean athlete committed needs to recognize this distinction. IMHO, Paul Hamm shamed Americans in how he has spoken publicly and behaved publicly in regard to this error.

Whatever his true feelings were, he should have STFU about it until the appropriate committees made their decision. Instead, he whined/lobbied jealously like a 2 year old, expressing no sympathy for the guy who was robbed ((...until of course some publicist/manager/handler knocked some sense into him and he started doing that late this week to salvage his marketability)). In my view, he was defending the technical error that made him the winner. A real champion wins on the merits of his performance, and would want nothing less.

The reasons people think Paul Hamm should keep his medal are not the reasons they support athletes in their endeavors. His behavior is not how a champion behaves. I would be appalled to have him be revered as a role model for young athletes.

Keep the gold, Paul. But you are no hero. You deserve the public's scorn.

[vi5]

6. I don't know what exactly happened, but seeing him interviewed..

He just seems to be acting pretty petulant about it. He should say it's up to the judges and the Olympic committee, etc. and whatever they decide I will gladly support.

Instead all I've seen him say is "I was the champion that night and nobody can tell me otherwise" and then after figuratively stomping his feet then begrudgingly says he would abide by what the committe says.

I feel for the guy but from what I've read it was the result of a judging error. It sucks but the way he's acting about it seems less than sportsmanlike to me.

[pacalo]

45. Originally, he did say that it's up to the judges & the olympic committee.

However, when he got back to the U.S. (& probably hired a lawyer) & he was interviewed on camera at his home, he seemed to recite a prepared talking-point spiel to the interviewer, which was contrary to his original public statement in Greece.

I do feel for Paul Hamm, but I wish he'd acted more maturely & did the right thing by substituting the medal he deserved. It would have taken a big man to do that, & I'm embarrassed for him & as an American that he would settle for a medal that now is a sham in his possession. He's too immature to see that.

(edited for typo)

[Trajan]

7. An Idiot ? ...

Isnt that a tad strong an insult ? ...

I mean: I think Hamm was mediocre in the individual all-around, but he was CERTAINLY not idiotic ....

He likes His gold medal: he is a young man who believes he won it ... I dont agree with him, but I wouldnt stoop so low as to unload insults upon him ...

PURE abusive ad hominem .... and really a black mark on YOUR personage .... Sir ....

[aquart]

10. Well, I would. Jackass blew it.

[Trajan]

14. So: when a kid doesnt hit the baseball for a hit ...

Do you call him a damned loser in public ? ...

When your daughter hits the net during a tennis match: do you say to her "WHY did you miss THAT easy shot, you idiot?" ???? ...

Or if your neighbor's kid misses an easy layup in the high school game: is it YOU who hauls out the "Only a little, idiot twerp can miss such a simple shot" ? ....

You know: we make choices in the way we speak to others .....

Some make better choices than others .....

[GiovanniC]

32. I Don't Think He's Being Called Idiotic For His PERFORMANCE

So much as what he did afterward.

It's like if two teams are playing for the Superbowl. It's fourth and goal with 4 seconds left in the game. Team A has possession of the ball and trails by 4. They have time for one play. The running back gets the ball and runs next to the sideline into the end zone. They win.

Celebration ensues.

But there's a challenge on the play, and there it is in the instant replay. The running back stepped out of bounds just shy of the 2 yeard line before the touchdown. Time had expired. Team A didn't win, Team B did.

But instead of being good sports and accepting that they didn't win, they make a huge unsportsmanlike spectacle of themselves.

That's idiotic.

[aquart]

8. I agree. But it's too late now.

The medal is tainted. It's worthless for endorsements. Especially since his first reaction was a selfish ME! MINE!

Had he instantly given it up, he probably could have still made a fortune in endorsements. There are lots of fun ads that could be written for that situation...especially since the sympathy would have been with HIM at that point, not the other guy.

He could have made lemonade, instead he insisted on keeping the lemon.

[NC_Nurse]

11. EXACTLY!

He's bought himself a pile of poo, IMO, instead of a halo.

[SoCalDem]

15. He had one moment in time to do it..It's too late now

I can't understand why he even wants it now.. He could have been a great sportsman, and have had the press of the world at his feet, but he wanted that chunk of pot metal..even if it's meaningless..

A math error does not change the fact that the "other guy" deservced the medal..

With all the technology we have now, it's unconscionable that the routines are not viewed in slow-mo BEFORE scores are recorded, and medals handed out.. I would rather wait to see the medal ceremony, than to have this kind of stuff coming up afterwards.. It hurts the whole process..and it puts the "winners" in an ethics dilemma ..
How they handle that one moment of disruption, colors the rest of their sports' career..

[supernova]

13. Why can't this be settled the same way

the ice skating debacle was settled? Just award two gold medals. What's wrong with that? This decision was not the fault of either athlete. They were just doing their jobs.

This mess lies with the judges and they ought to be the ones to fix it, regardless of how the athletes are acting.

Maybe I don't have enough info.

Paul Hamm might be lacking in maturity and tact, but this isn't a punishible offense.

[NC_Nurse]

17. I don't think he should be

punished and I don't think that's what most of us are talking about. We're talking about what would have been best in his own self interest, not just to please others.

[supernova]

20. I think you all are asking

more of him than he's capable of at this point. He's just a kid, really.

The judges are wrong for asking the two athletes to fix their mess and make the them look good. That's really not going to do it.

[Shrek]

22. Apparently the rules don't allow for multiple Golds

The skating situation was a bit different because there was evidence (or at least allegations) of corruption by the judges.

Here it was just a mistake, and there were already standard procedures in place to deal with it. The Koreans failed to follow the procedures properly, so the results stand.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5839534/

[supernova]

29. Well, that "mistake"

is causing the exact same outcome as in the ice dancing instance.

What was the reason given for the lower baseline for the Korean athlete? I haven't heard it. It seems like there wasn't a reason. Otherwise, you've got two athletes whose performances are so close, it isn't even funny.

So, they should reexmine the rules. Sorry, but this will take a while.

This affects not only these two athletes, but future competitions. I mean, how can you as a gymnast in peak condition expect a fair judging of your performance if you know the judges are really worried about weaknesses in the judging system. Whether those weaknesses come from mistakes or corruption is irrleavant to the athletes.

[TheDebbieDee]

27. I'm with you, supernova....................

They should award a second gold medal to the Korean that got stiffed, put the competition in the Olympic record books with an * or footnote describing the screw-up and then everyone should just go on with life as usual, for crying out loud!

[supernova]

31. Thank you, TheDeb

I think it's the only fair way out of this predicament. But who said people will be fair? :sigh:

[Catch22Dem]

16. I hate when people attack the athlete

When the athlete didn't do anything wrong. This is for Olympic officials to decide. Don't give a man a gold medal then "suggest" he should give it back. If the officials think he should give it back then TAKE it back. The officials are being pussies about it!

Hamm didn't do anything wrong. The S.Koreans didn't either. No, the judges fucked this one up.

[Zynx]

18. No way he should have given it back

First, the South Koreans should know the rules.

Second, Olympic gymnastics is absurdly corrupt. The judges actually *changed* their scores in another event because the audiance was booing.

South Korean has no more right to medal than Hamm does.

[shadu]

19. Agreed. It's too late now.

[2Design]

21. he won...he should keep it...the other guy did four holds and would

have lost more points...even if they gave him the higher point....so he still lost...

Hamm won and deserves to keep medal

[PVnRT]

25. A voice of reason at last

n/t

[Wilber_Stool]

23. It's not his job

to decide who gets a medal.

[scared]

24. Please don't call him a idiot.

Really, that's all I have to say.

[PVnRT]

26. So, then

Are the 1972 Soviet men's basketball players idiots for not giving up their gold medals as well?

Something tells me that if the situation were reversed, you people would be calling the U.S. a bunch of whiners, calling the Republicans, blah blah blah...let's face it, the real motivation behind all of this is to bitch about the U.S., the specifics are moot.

[newyawker99]

28. I think he should keep his medal. I thought his routines

were great except for the vault.

Someone took another look at the
South Korean's parallel bar routine.
He made a mistake that would have
cost him the medal anyway. He had
4 hold moves when he was only supposed
to have 3. I don't know why the US
team doesn't argue this point. If
they penalize the South Korean now
he will lose his silver medal.

The time to argue a score is at the
time it happens and not a couple of
days later. It is not Hamm's fault
that the judges are incompetent.

I don't think any athlete should go
through what he did. He said last
night that under certain circumstances
he would return the medal but I hope
he keeps the medal that he earned.

[2Design]

30. Make the south korea give back his medal for doing four holds instead

of three.

Paul was scored accurately.
The Korean was not.
The Korean would have scored lower if he was scored accurately

[Cheswick2.0]

33. The Korean should give his bronze to the 4th place finisher

They failed to subract 2/10ths manditory deductions which would have placed him even lower, even with the higher start value.

In fact the whole compititions should be done over since they lowered the start value of at least 3 americans.

[HEyHEY]

34. This squabbling is so embarrasing

It really takes any honour or dignity out of the Olympics doesn't it?

[Cheswick2.0]

37. can you imagine if they looked at all the film

and started reasigning medals? I saw a race where the silver medalist purposely hit another runner in the back on the way by. I think we should rerun that tape and penalize him.

[NC_Nurse]

38. True enough.

I don't think Hamm is an idiot, I just think it would have been best for him to do the gracious thing. That said, I admit I'm not really a sports fan and the Olympics was the only sporting event that I watch but I'm not going to bother anymore. It seemed to me that the athletes were honorable and statesmenlike back in the day (maybe that was my illusion). Now it's becoming more and more like the disgusting corporate sports machine that we have here in the U.S.
Yuch.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. The person who has a right to complain is NOT the Korean

The person really screwed over was the russian gymnist during the high bar individual finals. He was robbed.

[newyawker99]

42. I agree! They really did a job on him.

I think he had the best routine.

[bo44]

40. Fuck the South Koreans

When the South Korean motherfucker that won the gold medal in Seuol for winning a fixed fight against Roy Jones then Paul Hamm can give his medal back.

[Baclava]

43. I'd file this one under "Who gives a fuck", except...

In gymnastics you have a grace period when you are allowed to submit an inquiry so that a specific routine can be reviewed. However, you do not submit an inquiry after all 6 men's events have been completed.

Whatever the circumstance in these olympics the judges screwed up royally. It is not the fault of any of the gymnasts and it should not fall on any of the gymnasts to correct any of their judging errors, including this one.

Those of you who have cited NFL examples are 100% correct in your analogies. The NFL games are over and the outcome has been decided. The NFL will admit it's mistakes and chalk it up to human error. Just as the IOC and/or the FIG should do in this circumstance.

Considering all the missed deductions in the routines off ALL the gymnasts--male and female, it is wrong to isolate this particular outcome. The monumental task of reviewing ALL the routines from the start to finish will wind up changing the standings in more than just this Gold-Silver-Bronze outcome.

Paul Hamm was declared the winner. The inquiry was NOT submitted in time. The Olympic judges signed off on the scores, as did their overseeing officials. The six events were declared officially over by the Olympic Committee. Paul Hamm did not malicously cheat or impede any of the judging decisions. He played by the exact rules the IOC allowed all gymnasts to compete under. He's the winner of the gold medal by their own rules, laws and governing body.

It's that simple.

[cmkramer]

46. South Korean judges

From what I understand they had filed a protest earlier for something else so they obviously knew the procedure. And even if, for the sake of argument, you believe that they were told that they had to wait to file a protest over the all-around results, did they ask any questions about why?

Paul's said that he would return the medal if he is ordered to do so. However, the IFG has already stated they aren't going to change the outcome of an event after the competition is over. So by not actually ordering him to do so, they can claim they followed their own rules but that they couldn't control what the athlete did on his own.

And how cheap was it for the IFG -- or whatever it is -- to play the "good sportsmanship" card here?

[Taverner]

47. I disagree 100%

It's not his job to cover for the supreme fuck up of the judges...sorry.

Two golds I can go along with, but Hamm should NOT give back his medal.