The Obesity Myth

[AngryAmish]

This is an interesting take on mortality rates v. weight.

What I think is fairly insightful is the idea that upper class Americans can no longer voice their hatred of lower classes for their skin color or sex, so they despise fat people (who more often are lower class).

Any thoughts?

[Donkeyboy75]

1. I agree that the BMI is an extremely crude instrument,

and has no merit. It doesn't take into account muscle mass or even body frame, so I fail to see how it could be remotely accurate. I have seen some data regarding body fat % and mortality, and was convinced. When I have more time I'll try to dig it up.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. They say I have to weight 84 kg

If I weight that, take me to the hospital. The lowest healty weight I'll be marginally able to achieve is 92 -- I'll have to lose 20 kg.

[alarimer]

21. I don't understand the charts either

I always weigh 20 pound more than I am supposed to according to the charts and I work out regularly. I am always embarrassed at the Dr.'s office when I get weighed. Try as I might I cannot lose weight so I figure just to try an eat healthy and exercise.

[sir_captain]

9. It obviously doesn't work for everyone

but BMI is not totally without merit. It is a very crude way of comparing height:weight ratios. For a lot of people, it's a pretty decent guideline--there are certainly correlations between BMIs and health problems. As with all correlations of this sort, it is not going to hold for everyone in a population.

[Donkeyboy75]

12. But there are many better metrics.

I don't need a number to tell me if I'm overweight, and I think common sense beats the stuffins out of BMI.

[sendero]

23. You're correct...

.... BMI is a joke. Why they even bothered to put it together is a mystery to me, it means NOTHING.

The real gauge of overall body health would be better expressed as percentage of bodyweight that is fat.

You can have 12% bodyfat (excellent) and have a lousy BMI.

[tjwash]

3. There is a real bias against obese people in this country...

And not just by rich people. I have a very close friend that was extremely overweight, to the point that she qualified for her insurance to cover the stomach stapling surgery, and went from 380 down to 160 pounds over the next few years. We both noticed, and continue to notice to this day, the extreme different way that everybody treats her. And it is not a conscious thing by most people. There are marked differences in body language, proximity, and inclusion. It's the way we are brought up in this culture, to shun anyone who is different, and weight is a huge factor in that regards.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. I've been arguing that it's mostly a class issue

Wholesome food is expensive, and poor people on a limited income can't really afford broccoli at $1.79/lb and free-range chicken at $5.99/lb. It's easier to make food stamps stretch buying high-carb, preservative-laden foods like ramen noodles and mac and cheese, which you can usually get for 4/$1. Many people have insulin issues that are exascerbated by this kind of diet.

Fat is the last "acceptable: prejudice.

[candy]

8. Smoking is the last acceptable prejudice

Fat is just catching up.

People always seem to want someone about which they can feel superior.

Sad

[Burma Jones]

22. I Believe, and I can't remember the reference, that....

As you go down the income scale Women get fatter and Men get thinner. I think that there's an attitude that eating healthy is some sort of Yuppie elitist thing and that real folks eat whatever the hell they want...

[NC_Nurse]

5. I have to say that I am not jumping on board with this

guy's data. I see more and more morbildy obese people all the time at the hospital, including young children as young as 2. It's a big and accelerating problem. they may not have more of some of the conditions that he mentions, but many of them can hardly move, have terrible degerative joint disease because of the stress from all the weight, and other major health problems. While I think it's true that 25 BMI might not be the threshold that people should be concerned about, I think once your rising above that , it's time to put on the brakes. Although it's true that there are plenty of poor fat people, there are also plenty of rich fat people.
Personally, I think it's our uptight, f***ed up culture that has people reaching for the comfort foods on every class rung.

[tjwash]

7. Not only that, fast food joints are serving that lunches...

...at many high schools now.

[Donkeyboy75]

14. At schools rich and middle class children attend.

[Susang]

17. At all schools, rich and poor and middle class

The processed/fast food industry has infiltrated public schools to such a degree that they are even sponsoring events and purchasing the rights to be the exclusive suppliers of soft drinks, etc to certain school districts. It's all very sleazy and it's all about money.

[Donkeyboy75]

13. But he really doesn't debunk the "obesity is bad"

idea. He simply attacks the BMI. Nothing convincing in that article, I agree.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

6. Jesus

What I think is fairly insightful is the idea that upper class Americans can no longer voice their hatred of lower classes for their skin color or sex, so they despise fat people (who more often are lower class).

:eyes:

Don't you think that's a mild exaggeration?

[tjwash]

11. It's not real hatred anyway...

...the truly wealthy, that being the upper five percent, that have a stranglehold on the majority of the wealth in this country, are taught from a very early age to never look down. And believe me they don't. It's not race, it's not weight, it's not sex. What it is, is inclusion. They look upon a physically fit WASP, that lives from paycheck to paycheck, in as much the same way that they they look upon every other ethnic background. If you do not belong to that very small club, you do not exist. It's not hatred, it's good old fashioned snobbery.

[gpandas]

10. why do so many people think they...

know why people are fat?

[NashVegas]

15. Love this

The single most noxious line of argument in the literature about obesity is that black and Hispanic girls and women need to be "sensitised" to the "fact" that they have inappropriately positive feelings about their bodies. Readers may suspectthis is a bad joke: I wish it were. One University of Arizona study found that, while only 10% of the white teenage girls surveyed were happy with their bodies, 70% of the black teenage girls were happy with theirs (the black girls weighed more, on average, than the white girls).

When asked to define "beauty", the white girls described their feminine ideal as a woman 5ft 7in tall, weighing between seven and seven and a half stone (ie, someone thinner than the average model). By contrast, the black girls described a woman whose body included such features as visible hips and functional thighs.

Obesity researchers and diet companies are doing their best to change this unacceptable situation. In recent years, diet companies have targeted much of their advertising specifically toward upwardly mobile black and Hispanic women. As for obesity researchers, a recent article noted that black girls have better body images and lower rates of eating disorders than white girls, and also noted that they weighed more.

"These findings," the authors concluded, "should be used in the development of culturally sensitive public health intervention programmes to help reduce the high rates of obesity within the black community and encourage black youth to achieve a healthy and reasonable body size." Here again, we see how crucial the health justification remains to all aspects of the war on fat.

[geniph]

16. There's a couple different things here

The first is that, yes, actual obesity is a health problem. My husband has just gone from over 300 lbs to about 270, and the difference in his health is unbelievable. It's like he's shed 10 years. No more sleep apnea, no more wheezing, no more back pain. His blood pressure and cholesterol are down, he can walk without discomfort again. There's no question that level of weight was unhealthful. Hell, even the weight I've lost myself - going from about 130 to about 115 - has made me feel more fit and less tired.

However, what that bit from the article highlights is the opposite problem; our culture's obsession with thinness. Extreme thinness is not healthy for most people either. We've developed this unrealistic cultural ideal for feminine beauty that borders on downright starvation: women are encouraged to be skin and bones, right to the point of amenorrhea.

NEITHER EXTREME IS HEALTHY FOR MOST PEOPLE. And making character judgements about people based on either is foolish; no one else can truly know all the factors that drive a person toward eating disorders. It seems to be okay to stick our noses in other people's business where their dietary habits are concerned. The health, or lack of same, of other people is not my affair until it impinges somehow upon my life. Yes, a case can be made that being overly heavy (or overly thin) costs me money in terms of raising everyone's healthcare expenses, but the same is true of many things. I'm in no position to cast stones. The real problem is that we're a society of f***ing busybodies.

[Zomby Woof]

18. can you get your arms around John yet?

And if so, can you grab a $20 from his wallet for me? :P

[geniph]

24. A single arm? No.

But I *can* get both arms around him. And he'll give me a $20, but I have to perform an act which is illegal in several Southern states first; you wouldn't want me to do THAT, now would you?

[IronLionZion]

19. What is the relationship between fat people and lower class?

Does one cause the other?

Here's my opinion PLEASE don't take it the wrong way:

Some people tend to be lazy and un-motivated. These people often end up being lower class. Lower class people or lazy people don't go buy nutritious produce and lean (more expensive) meats from grocery stores. They often buy cheaper stuff that has all kinds of horrible things in them. such as: processed foods, fast food, frozen dinners, etc. Even the ones who do cook end up buying the cheaper meats and ingredients. They may buy the really sketchy meats sold at public markets. They also consume a lot of the sweet processed baked goods like twinkies which are way worse than something you bake in your own kitchen.

Also, uneducated people tend to not know how to live a healthy lifestyle. The price of gym memberships is not a factor because any damn fool can find a way to excercise.

And the reason why Americans are fatter than anyone else on this planet has to do with the hormones and fattening agents in our meats and dairy products as well as our love of processed crap and sweet carbs.


I realize some people are just naturally large through no fault of their own so please don't be offended!

hmm...I think I'll go for a jog now.

[Lars39]

25. I remember a thread last year about stress and obesity

among low-income people. Don't have a link, but the bottom line in the study was that stress greatly contributed to obesity among those with low-incomes. It wasn't just eating the *wrong* foods or quantities. :shrug:

[displacedtexan]

20. This was last summer's filler story... not many shark attacks.

Also, the masses were tired of the missing kids stories. The obesity stories have evolved into a major nightmare, and they have resulted in major biz problems for restaurants and bread companies.