I need some help from DUers that have kids or deal with kids.

[Rainbowreflect]

My 18 month old nephew has started biting other kids at day care and sometime his parents.
What is the best was to stop kids from biting? My sister-in-law is really embarrassed about this.

[MissMillie]

1. gag him?

Of course, I'm kidding.

Seriously though, the day care provider needs to keep a closer eye on him. If she reprimands him enough, and if your sister-in-law does, he'll learn that he can't do that.

[elfwitch]

2. bite him back?

Just a suggestion. When my 3 yr old does mean things, (bites, hits, kicks) we do the same thing back to him in a very reduced fashion. If he clocks someone on the head, we lightly clonk him back. He looks all shocked and then we tell him, "See you don't like that, why do you do it to others?"

[YellowRubberDuckie]

4. GMTA, Elf...

Posted at the same time. LOL
Duckie

[YellowRubberDuckie]

3. We were always bitten back...

It stops it...I don't know how all the touchy feely people are going to take that, but it does. I'm not saying take a chunk of skin out of his finger or whatever, but just a little nip usually stops them from doing it since he can see what it feels like.
Duckie

[mr_hat]

5. Those "Silence of the Lambchop" masks are awful cute.

[obietiger]

6. do NOT bite him back

This is nothing to be embarrassed about - for some reason some children pick up this defense tactic even though they have never been exposed to it. I found removing the guilty child right away and keep repeating to them that we do not do that, the child will finally get the idea. Until they do, you have to extra alert!

[shugah]

45. that's not a bad method...but

you get a lot of bit kids and a lot of unhappy parents while you wait for the child to "finally get the idea."

[Mistress Quickly]

7. Get down on your knees (to his level)

Grasp his cheeks right where his upper and lower jaws connect, squeeze a little (NOT A LOT, IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH) a look him in the eye and say "We DO NOT bite."

I only had to do that twice. Do it to yourself to see what it feels like.

I got that from a mom of 8 / grandmother of 7

[Marymarg]

8. Yes, bite him back

He does not realize what he is doing. When he is bitten back, he will instantly "get it."

[democratreformed]

13. My answer too - bite him back n/t

[mcar]

9. My son was a biter

It's a difficult and very frustrating problem and it doesn't get solved overnight. My son mostly confined his biting to his brother and us so it wasn't as public.

Despite her embarassment (which I understand completely), your SIL needs to work with the day care staff, know their discipline policies and be upfront with them so they can solve the problem together, or she risks having her son "expelled" from the center.

Timeouts, taking toys away, sternly telling him that we don't bite people and letting him know that he can bite things: a pillow, a stuffed toy, etc., if he feels like he has to bite something. Those tactics eventually worked for us.

You also have to be ultra-aware when the child is roughhousing or getting frustrated. A lot of times mine would bite his brother while they were wrestling -- an impulse, not meanness. He also did it, I think, because it got such a reaction from us. We never succeeded in calmly disciplining him which probably would have worked a bit better.

She should not bite him back! Some people think that's a good tactic, but children that age do not have empathy. They don't know that what hurts them can hurt others, they only know that mommy's hurting them.

Finally, they must remember that he will get past this. Best of luck to them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. Precisely because kids that age don't have empathy or much in

the way of logic, biting them back IS the most effective way. You can give time-outs or say, "We don't bite people, sweetie" all you want, and you'll be dealing with biting for a long time.

One of my younger brothers was a biter, not just once, but repeatedly. My parents tried everything until one day, he bit me so hard that blood flowed. (I was perhaps six years old.)

My mom gave me permission to bite him back, which I didn't want to do, but she said to do it just enough so that he could feel it.

I bit him on the arm just enough to be slightly painful. He looked shocked, burst into tears, and never, ever bit anyone again.

[adriennui]

10. have you tried a muzzle?

you can get them at any pet store.

only kidding, but has he shown any other behavioral problems? is he a late talker or very physical?

[havocmom]

11. at 18 months, isolation will work better than a reprimand

Remove him from direct contact with others, do it quickly and ignore his protests. A reprimand can be accepted as attention and that is the goal. Removal (even just away from people in same room and facing a wall) until he settles down says two things: 1) The offending behavior will not be tolerated. 2) Offending behavior will not get you noticed.

Any attempt at behavior modification will usually trigger and increase in the behavior. The increase will be temporary as long as the response is consistent (means day care and home every time). When he is removed, tell him he can join the fun again when he decides to stop biting and behave. Then, everybody should really enjoy what they are doing so he gets the message that he is missing out due to his behavior. Kids are smart and this works with just about any of them.

They do not wanna be outsiders. Instincts tell very young children that being shunned can be a survival threat, so they have a natural drive to wards some sort of acceptance and attention. Kids in larger day care groups often develop aggressive tendencies to assure they get attention; it is a survival technique.

If it continues long after this is done religiously, might wanna seek professional help. Have hearing and vision tested to assure he is not having perception problems that he is compensating for and then see if he is truly aggressive and needs to have that looked into.

[bearfan454]

12. Bite back. I also

used to get down on the ground and throw a temper tantrum when my son would. Kicking and screaming and pounding the floor with fists and yelling. It worked.

[Kadie]

14. My son was a biter

and we never bit him back. My son has the temperament that if we were to bite him back, he would have bit back even harder. We would just tell him in a very stern voice "no, we do not bite!" Eye contact is very important. If he continued he would get a time out. It worked.

Your sister-in-law has nothing to be embarrassed about, although I do understand. My son preferred to bite me, and I didn't really have to deal with him biting others too often. Most parents have to deal with the biting issue I think. She just needs to be persistent and not let the behavior go on without acknowledging that is not acceptable.

[Sticky]

15. Don't Bite back

Simply go waaay overboard in your love and concern for the child who has been bitten. Offer the child a treat....something you know the biter would love. The victim should get all the attention making it an undesirable consequence for the biting child.

During the entire love-fest between you and the victim, completely ignore the biter!

This reaction on the care-giver's part should deter the biter in a very short time.

[JVS]

16. That kid's got a hankerin for a spankerin

Yell at him too about not biting people before and after the spanking.

[MissMarple]

21. Physical punishment is inappropriate, especially for an 18 month old.

Hitting babies is barbaric. They have almost no impulse control. People aren't for hitting, people of any age. Spanking is usually more for the parent than the child. And I can't believe biting back from an adult can even be recommended. For an 18 month old diversion and avoiding frustrating situations is a better approach. He may also be getting a secondary reward from the aftermath of the biting, as mentioned above.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

23. At 18 months...

A light spanking is ok (especially if they're still in diapers. The thick diaper will protct them). It gets their attentiion quick, teaches them that whatever they're doing at that moment is not ok. This is from my mom. And I turned out well. It doesn't hurt them. At that age, they don't understand the talking to. The quick light tap on the back of the hand when they're getting into something or a light spanking is sending a message that what they're doing right then is not ok. Yes, some people go overboard, but not everyone. Hell, half the people on DU were probably spanked.
Duckie

[drfemoe]

41. the "message" it teaches ..

is that hitting is an acceptable way to deal with problems and other people. Loud noises catch their attention just as well as physical violence. And doesn't teach violence as a "coping skill".

[YellowRubberDuckie]

42. That's crap. I was spanked and I don't think that...

That's just a copout from the Dr. Spock form of child rearing. I've seen lots of kids at the detention center who were never spanked (we did research) and they're the most violent of the bunch.
Duckie

[drfemoe]

43. but you "were spanked"

and you are advocating violence against babies (18 months old!).

Sorry, but your research and violence evaluation at the "detention center" holds no sway on my opinion.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

49. Were you spanked?

[Pithlet]

51. How is not hitting children "crap"?

I'm not in the "Spanking is abuse" camp, but I also don't spank my children. They've never bitten or hit anyone else. Explain to me how my method of childrearing is crap?

Edited to add that I didn't want to imply that biting was a result of spanking. My point is that children who aren't spanked don't turn into violent, spoiled brats. There is absolutely no true, scientific research that backs that up. There is plenty that finds that spanking is not an effective parenting tool, and in fact, spanking often has a negative impact.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

57. I've never considered Spanking abuse...

And you're likening it to it. Like it's a cycle or something. And no it wasn't peer reviewed in a journal, but it was peer reviewed at my university.
Duckie

[Pithlet]

59. No, I'm not.

I'm merely saying that parenting without spanking is not some touchy feely (as you put it) wimpy method that results in spoiled brats. I never said that it was always a vicious cycle as I was spanked myself. I've never seen a reputable study that proved that spanked kids fared better than non-spanked kids. Not a one.

I do not believe that spanking always equals abuse, however, I think it can lead to abuse very easily, more than many realize. Spanking is almost always done out of anger and frustration at the moment, when it can be harder for a parent to control themselves. And, abuse can and does cycle. Where is the line between spanking and outright abuse, and is it immediately obvious in the heat of the moment, when you want to just explode? Believe me, I know as well as most parents how frustrating and maddening young children can be. I have a very spirited 3 year old son and an infant. Raising kids without spanking can be very hard; in fact, I believe it is harder, because non-spanking methods take a lot of time and patience.

My choice to not spank was not founded entirely on anecdotal evidence, however, I can counter yours with my experiences. In every play group I've ever belonged to, it was often easy to tell who was spanked and who was not. One little girl would bend dolls and other children over her knee and start whacking them, for instance. I think that is just sad.

Edited for typos

[put out]

60. It might be a bit of a cycle

if you were hit as a child and now think that it would be alright to hit children as (I presume you are) an adult.

To whom did you submit your research for review at your university? I work with children and actually have one. I would be very interested to view your methodology and results. I really have not ever read reliable research indicating that corporal punishment of a child resulted in good long-term results in behavioral change.

Please let me know. This would be very interesting.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

62. Dude, I'm not talking paddling or belting...

I'm talking a quick, nearly painless smack on the rear or hand to get their attention. God. You guys make it sound like I'm talking about beating the crap out of kids.
Duckie

[Pithlet]

52. Was your "research"

peer reviewed in a scientific journal?

[Susang]

53. I seriously doubt it

At least not like the recent meta-study of all the data compiled from 88 published studies dealing with spanking and corporal punishment and their effectiveness. The meta-study determined that all of the studies to date & their data support the conclusion that spanking just does not work long term, and in most cases does harm to the child.

http://www.apa.org/journals/bul/press_releases/july_2002/
http://www.apa.org/releases/spanking.html

[drfemoe]

55. Thank you for posting

those links.

Our society sends out too many pro-violence messages, imo.
There's the urban legend that physical violence (hitting) is somehow less damaging than 'emotional' abuse. No one has ever explained how you manage to inflict physical pain to someone without hurting their feelings!! The fact of the matter is, neither are helpful in building relationships.

Thanks again.

[quisp]

17. father of 3 ...

1 biter and 2 bitees.

biting is VERY serious and unfortunately when you're 18 months old you don't really have much concept of cause and effect or repercussions of your actions. Reasoning with an 18 month old, while possible, is tricky and, more often than not, unsuccesful. Kids that age are in a frustrating time because the are pre- or barely verbal and are simply unable to express themselves effectively and that's why they bite.

If the day care is a professional day care (as opposed to in-home) they should have know what to do:
separate the child from the others for a period of time (18 month olders can stand 3 to 5 minutes and then they tend to forget why they're in trouble).

Make sure he understands WHY he is in trouble ("You bit Timmy") because he may be thinking it was something else ("Timmy screamed and I got in trouble!").

Talk to the child about biting and how it hurts her friend. Try to get her to express what she was feeling when she bit. Work on giving her a vocabulary for her feelings ("Did it make you mad when Timmy took your toy?")

You have to nip this in the bud or it will be a continuing struggle.

ps - this is ONLY my humble opinion
ISSUER OFFERS NO WARRANTY - EXPRESS OR IMPLIED!
YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

[Kadie]

18. good advice

and I love your disclaimer.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Rainbowreflect]

19. Thank for everyone's suggestions. I will pass them on.

They have been working on the "timeout". He hates being ignored more than any punishment.
We are afraid to try the biting back because my mom did that to me when I was biting at about the same age. She didn't bite me very hard, so she says, but it became all black & blue and when strangers would ask what happened, I would happily reply. "My mommy bite me".

[drfemoe]

56. The VERY FIRST TIME

I ever took my son to day care (when he was nine months old), another kid bit his face about SIX TIMES!! It was awful. Had to take him for tetanus shots. I also don't think they changed his diaper the whole time he was there. If things don't improve, shopping for a new day care might not be a bad idea. Babies need constant supervision. You can't just leave them on their own.

[forgethell]

20. A awat with the board of education

across the seat of learning works for me.

[amandae]

22. Time-outs REALLY worked for us on this

In a location (like a crib or playpen) where he can't be around anyone. Immediately after he bites, say "No biting" and remove him from the room to the place where you have the playpen or his crib set up. Have him stay there for about a minute, by himself. We did this with my oldest daughter when she went through this phase and it worked within a week. They don't like to be alone at this age so this is some of the worst punishment they can have and they get the point pretty quickly.

I know that biting them back sometimes works too, but sometimes they also can come away thinking it's a game or something similar.

Good luck to your brother and SIL!

:hi:

[TXlib]

24. 18-month olds really can't be punished

They don't have a really good grasp on cause-and-effect.

Try not to make a scene. The child may like the reaction it provokes.

Firmly say "no", and remove the child from the situation. That also means put him down, if you are the one who was bitten.

[jobycom]

25. It may not be a discipline issue

With 18 month olds, physical discipline is simply going to translate into later aggression problems, because all he/she will understand is that he was forced to stop doing something by someone he couldn't beat, so he may turn that lesson outward on people he can.

Time out and some form of separation, as has been mentioned, is the best disciplinary response, but it's an immediate fix, not the solution. It will teach the child that something is wrong with what he is doing, and will call attention to the fact that he needs to stop it. But there are a lot of messages he could get from that simple conclusion.

Look for a cause. it may just be that he needs to learn proper behavior, but it may be something deeper. Is it a new daycare? Does he have a new teacher, new playmate he has to adapt to? My youngest daughter has gone through several fighting/biting periods, and it is always something that is emotionally upsetting to her. Sometimes it is strife at home, sometimes it is the school.

He needs to get the message first that what he is doing is wrong, but he also needs to have any underlying causes addressed, as well. That's the harder part. It doesn't mean he has to have the cause removed (that's sometimes bad, because he learns that his behavior brings the desired result). He may need to learn to deal with it better. He may just need a patient and attentive reaction to it. During one of my youngest's tantrums, she started spitting. The worst was once she got mad at a toy because it wouldn't be quiet, and she kept shaking it. She went into a fury, shaking the toy and slamming it down (which activated its noisemaker more, thus angering her more). So I pulled it away from her, gently. She was so upset she spit in my face, literally. My wife had just walked up when she did it, and I could see she was about to scold Adrienne. I could also tell Adrienne didn't really spit on me because of me, but because she couldn't control her anger. So I just held her, and patted her on the back, and told her it was okay. She started crying, and I could feel her relax. When she calmed down, I talked to her about not getting mad at things, about walking away from them if they were upsetting her. The whole sequence of events somehow calmed her down, and her biting/kicking phase ended. If my wife had scolded her then, it would have only increased her frustration, which may have made it worse.

So keep in mind not just that the child needs to learn not to do what he is doing, but also has to deal with whatever emotion is making him do it. Sometimes too much scolding escalates the situation.

I don't know if there's anything in all those words you can use. Good luck. I know how emotional such situations are.

[drfemoe]

58. That's a lovely story ..

Allowing them to feel their emotions (validation) is 'good'.
It is also critical to teach them that they know how to calm themselves after an upset. That is very empowering and will last them a lifetime. It equips them to deal with life from an empowered position rather than a victim posture. Bravo!

[LuLu550]

26. my advice is to go to a parenting page, not DU

way too much bad advice here!

[proud patriot]

27. I'm a mom and a Trained Childcare Professional

At 18 months this is a normal behavior to test .
It becomes a problem if it lasts . It only lasts
if the behavior get's the child what they want .

At 18 months developmentally the child is "egocentric"
(the world revolves around me)Examples
Quotes from 2 year olds "the sun comes up because I wake up"
"it goes down because it's my bedtime"

The child is testing what works to achieve goals.

It is important to tell(give) the child the words
he/she needs to to successfully get what they want .

Example's "I don't like it when you take my toy"
"I want a turn" "waiting for a turn is hard"

It is also important for the caregiver to aknowledge
and give words to the child feelings by leading them
through the "teachable moments" of conflicts.

example's "I'm very mad at you" "I'm frustrated
with this activity" "I want to be left alone"

Help the child work out their frustrations
with activities such as sqeezing/punching playdough
or pillows and other soothing tactile activies .

Good luck and if you have any other specific
questions feel free to pm me .

My son went through this stage and I've worked with
biters in a preschool setting before .

[ohiosmith]

29. This sure fire cure worked on me and every one of my six siblings:

The next time he bites a parent immediately throw a glass of cold water in his face. It will only have to be done once.

[proud patriot]

31. Did you know this technique is practiced in Native American childrearing?

it doestn't hurt them and it shocks their system
immediately, without biting back or other such
"negative reinforcements" given in this thread.

[ohiosmith]

33. That's interesting. I have Cherokee ancestors.

[proud patriot]

34. I have very close family friends

who have strong medicine and are silversmiths .
They reminded me of this tradition at times of
Extreme parental frustration. This has been effective
to defuse situations and work towards healing and teaching .


I'm Cherokee/Seminole and Irish/Scottish
with a Dash of English here and there .

[ohiosmith]

36. Irish/German/Welsh/Cherokee. My uncle once told me I had so little

Cherokee blood that if I got a nose bleed I would be out of the tribe.

[proud patriot]

37. LOL .....

:D

[BigMcLargehuge]

30. biting is a communication of frustration

time outs for kids of 18 months old are not effective as an 18 month old doesn't understand a time out. Usually biting signals that the child is unable to express frustration verbally. Try and look for warning signs:

lots of activity
lots of noise
lots of other kids engaging in a group activity

These are the things that trigger a bite when the child over overwhelmed. When the pitch gets heavy pull the biting kid out for a few seconds and cuddle or distract him or her then send them back in. Also try and calm the entire group down.

The key to reducing incidents of biting are to recognize and react to the situation BEFORE the bite and not the situation after the bite.

Hitting or biting back DO NOT SOLVE the problem. 18 month old kids do not understand repercussions like that, it just negatively reinforces the sense of overwhelming that leads to the bite in the first place.

[proud patriot]

32. see my post #27 , you are exactly right Big

:D

[BigMcLargehuge]

35. Ahhhhh... what happens when you get two early child care pros together?

:)

I worked with kids from infants to school age in an early learning center for 5 years after college.

[proud patriot]

38. A rollicking fun time

:-)

[Burma Jones]

39. We discipline our kids by taking things away from them

It works, particularly here in the USA where people really love their things......

[shugah]

47. that's great - but if a child doesn't have the cognition

to comprehend that biting hurts, how do they understand the missing toys?

[SarahB]

40. Mom of 4 and early childhood ed. degree here

A few people indicated that children this age (which developmentally are still babies) are egocentric and still lack many cognitive skills necessary to understand fully the concept of cause and effect. They should not be hit back or bite back a child this age (if ever IMHO). They need to be redirected with a firm "no" or "ouch" and a sad face with little other attention. It's generally at this age done to get a reaction or attention because it worked somehow before. I find giving them some more time for something good is the best method for discouraging negative behavior at this age. My advice would be very different for a 4 or 5 year old, but this is still a baby we're talking about. Unlike what some posters said, DON'T EVER use corporal punishment on babies for gosh sakes! That's just cruel and not to mention potentially dangerous.

[Snoggera]

44. a dentist can remove those pesky teeth?

if not, know that it is only a temporary way for him to gain attention. I don't see this kind of thing as "bullying" or seeking some kind of day care dominance.

Keep talking to him. He will learn.

[shugah]

46. there is no right answer

that will cover every child in matters of discipline. sometimes a time out works. sometimes a sharp reprimand works. sometimes a spank works. depends on the child.

if you read the responses to this thread, i think you will see that the anti-bite them back group refers to "biters." others say "bite 'm back - problem solved."

kids tend to go thru a "wow! i have teeth" phase. do they bite out of malice? nah! they bite because they have teeth - and have likely been encouraged, throughout their teething, to chew on stuff. chewing on stuff is good, why not take a chunk out of mommy?

i am an advocate of children's rights. i have 2 children of completely diverse temperaments. both of them bit me once. once.

gawd, i can't believe i'm in the "bite em back" crowd!

[ACK]

48. 2 kids biting stuff common

Seperate and send the child to a time-out spot.

Call it standing in the corner if you hate the term time-out (some do).

Don't keep them there long something like a couple of minutes and emphasize before and after why the child is in trouble. Explain firmly and gently (don't bite them to teach them biting is wrong) illustrate the biting motion and do the "no no finger" waving sad disapproval look.

Please don't spank the kids.

I have slapped a hand gently in my day but the people that have the patience and self-restraint to handle physical punishment correctly in terms of spanking is rare.

Usually it amounts to smacking the kid around on their bottom becuase the parent is frustrated and has no clue what to do but to direct their anger at the kids bottom.

If you think you can handle corporal punishment without becoming a venting of frustration, then try it but I would not suggest it.

+

[drfemoe]

50. one of my most horrifying

*memories* is when I saw a tv program that showed, via hidden camera, a 15 year old (!!) being thrashed with a belt. That is NO WAY to treat children of any age. I am opposed to torture under any guise.

[MinnFats]

54. Biting a kid is abusive!

Do NOT bite. that just shows the kid you can do it too.

take something away, make the kid sit apart from the toys or what ever he/she likes, get in the kid's face and, using a sharp tone of voice (but not yelling) say "NO!"
also, let the kid know that it hurts: "You HURT George when you BITE!"
"You made George CRY!"
the kid will get the idea.
patience.

[Maestro]

61. I absolutely cannot believe some of the stuff I am reading

Biting him back to make him quit biting?

All this tells the child is that when someone does something to you that you don't like you reciprocate the poor behavior.

I deal with youngins' on a daily basis as a father of a two and four year old and a third grade teacher. Here are some suggestions that will not put an immediate stop to the biting but will offer probably more long term benefits.

1) Redirect the behavior with an isolation from peers otherwise known as time out and
2) In a stern but not over-the-top tone, explain to the child why biting is not appropriate and will not be tolerated. The child must know that you are dissapointed with his actions.
3) If this happens at home and you want to give the child a slap on the bum go ahead, but I would not let anyone other than the parents themselves touch that child. No way, no how!!!! I personally have never hit my kids and don't plan to. I grew up with THE BELT close by and was no better behaved as a child. In fact, I was a bit rebellious to say the least. But I digress.
4) If the biting continues and I am sure it will, continue with the isolation from peers, a minute per age is sufficient, then start removing things he likes for a set period of tiem during the day, a video, a toy, a trip to the park one day, a dessert, etc...Continue with the discussions on why biting is bad. Barnes and Noble's I'm sure has books with the theme of why such and such is not right. Try looking for these to read to him on a daily basis
5) Also, make him apologize to the victim either a sibling or a friend from day-care. Make sure that the day care is aware of the situation and follows through with corrective behavioral strategies like the ones I have outlined.
6) I can't remember who it was but someone posted about lavishing attention on the victim. This is a good idea and can be done while the child is in time-out. Ignoring behavior for which the child wants attention is a good way of stopping. However, no one should ignore biting since it hurts another person, but the child sure can ignored while in time-out. Well ignored is a poor choice of words. Be aware of him, but don't let him know that you are.
7) If any other child in the family starts this as well, make sure that you are consistent with the discipline. Don't do one thing for one child and a different thing for another. Children see this and this can lead to even more problems.

Hope this helps.