The people who have said they would never reinstate the DRAFT just lost

[Dems Will Win]

the argument. This is further analysis of the important WP article today on the de facto resumption of the draft, so moderators please do not dupe me.

GREETINGS!

The numbers of available troops and the actions of the government lately have put the lie to the idea that the DRAFT will not be reinstated. The article in the Post today clearly states that 40,000 troops have been prevented from leaving now and that is just the beginning of all this. And that number does not include the ones who were persuaded to re-enlist! The numbers just don't add up past March 2005 as they will not deploy anyone twice! the DRAFT is clearly coming if Bush is re-selected.

I think everyone can see now that those who thought the GOP would never reinstate the DRAFT have to admit they were wrong. The DoD has in effect already started a DRAFT "per se", as the Soldiers complain in the article. There will now have to be a DRAFT, just to save the invasion of Iraq and make the world safe for Halliburton.

The implications of this for DU and the Democratic Party are many. If people just understood what is happening here, the rug could be pulled out from under Bush, because it is his PNAC Plan and the refusal to share and make way for foreign troops in Iraq that has broken the back of the Volunteer Army. And most of the troops in Iraq protect KB&R, the Halliburton subsidiary!

Once regular conscription is authorized on April 1, 2005, as I have said before, the new Special Skills Draft will force millions of computer experts, linguists, engineers and many other occupation to register with Selective Service, man or woman up to the age of 44! 3.4 million doctors, nurses and 62 different medical specialties will also have to register for the MEDICAL DRAFT. All by May 1, 2005.
No medical deferments either here. Gen Xers beware!

And no more student deferments, college kids. No more Canada maybe, as they signed "The Agreement of Return".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36979-2003Dec28.html

-snip-

Army Stops Many Soldiers From Quitting

"An enlistment contract has two parties, yet only the government is allowed to violate the contract; I am not," said Costas, 42, who signed an e-mail from Iraq this month "Chained in Iraq," an allusion to the fact that he and his fellow reservists remained in Baghdad after the active-duty unit into which they were transferred last spring went home. He has now been told that he will be home late next June, more than a year after his contractual departure date. "Unfair. I would not say it's a draft per se, but it's clearly a breach of contract. I will not reenlist." ...

...Some of the orders have applied to soldiers, sailors and airmen in specific skill categories -- military police, for example, and ordnance control specialists, have been in particular demand in Iraq.

Other edicts have been more sweeping, such as the Army's most recent stop-loss order, issued Nov. 13, covering thousands of active-duty soldiers whose units are scheduled for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan in the coming months. Because the stop-loss order begins 90 days before deployment and lasts for 90 days after a return home, those troops will be prohibited from retiring or leaving the Army at the expiration of their contracts until the spring of 2005, at the earliest.

The proliferation of stop-loss orders has bred confusion and resentment even as it has helped preserve what the military calls "unit cohesion." In the past two years, the Army alone has announced 11 stop-loss orders -- an average of one every nine or 10 weeks. Often in the past year, the Army has allowed active-duty soldiers to retire and depart but not Guard and reserve troops, many of whom have chafed at the disparity in policies. Some Guard troops and reservists complain their release dates have been extended several times and they no longer know when they will be allowed to leave.


-snip-

Bush '04 = DRAFT'05

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. In 05 and I will parapharse a

listerner report from Rush

They are starting to say that it woudl be good for our shiftless youth

This means the programing has started

[mistertrickster]

4. This from the people who avoided the draft--it's good for them

That's rich . . .

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. It was the replacement host but still

I have been waiting for the El Rushbo show to come back on to
ahem laught at this hypocrisy...

And yes you are right... but hey that is the way the RW operates

The Grand Hipocrisy Party... for ya

[liberalhistorian]

7. So "it would be good for our

shiftless youth", eh? Too bad it didn't affect that ultimate of "shiftless youth", Dubya Dumbass himself. Of course, Daddy managed to get him out of service with his fancy family name and money (I hardly call the Texas Air National Guard, from which he's still technically AWOL, "service" in any sense of the word).

Of course, what they really mean is that it will be good for the "shiftless youth" of the underclass, since where the hell else are they supposed to go once Dubya Dumbass has finished destroying the job market and access to higher education as we know it? And we know as sure as hell that the privileged little brats of the upper classes will never be forced to dirty their precious little hands for one day with any kind of "real" military service.

[Eric J in MN]

2. Dennis Kucinich is running tv ads on the Draft issue. Please

Dennis Kucinich is running tv ads on the Draft issue. Please give him a small contribution even if he's not your favorite.

http://www.kucinich.us/index.php

[liberalhistorian]

3. Well, I have news

for the fucking PNAC neocons, most of whom have never spent ONE SINGLE FUCKING DAY IN UNIFORM. I'm a college-degreed woman who'll be 39 this Saturday, who has NO INTENTION OF, AND WHO WILL NEVER, register for ANYTHING remotely connected to the military, selective service, etc., etc. Nor will I allow my son, who's almost 13, to register when he's old enough. Hopefully, we'll be well-established in Canada by then, since I definitely plan to move if the Bushistas remain in power after next year.

[carols]

8. Amen to that sister! I have 3 draft aged children

and I will be taking a good hard look at Canada if it even looks like * is going to win. I'll stay long enough to vote Dem in Nov - if the Dems don't win, I'll be brushing up on my "eh's"!
Carol

[sventvkg]

21. Carol..don't be a Coward..STAY HERE AND FIGHT!!!!

Don't move..IF the draft comes back stand firm and Burn the Cards of your childern..We will all March in the streets..What are they going to do, Take the kids off in chains and MAKE them go to war?I have been in the ARmy and I know that will not work..At worst they will try to arrest them but eventually they will all be pardoned when we have taken back the government....DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDERN BE DRAFTED......TELL THEM TO BURN THE CARDS....STAY HERE AND FIGHT WITH US!!!!...Don't coward out and try to flee to Canada...

[Bandit]

48. Sometimes you have to know when to fold them.

I'm not sure America is still worth fighting for. Canada is everything America used to be plus a lot more. I say let the greedy bastards fight among themselves here in the good ol USA. The Corporations will not relinquish their control no matter who wins in 2004. Ain't gunna happen.

[liberalhistorian]

49. Unfortunately, I'm tending

more and more each day to agree with that viewpoint. Like I said, I've been fighting since Raygun's election, and people just seem to be getting even dumber, if that's possible. I think it'll be even worse if people actually vote for the fucker and his minions, that will show that we're just too far gone to save. It breaks my heart to even think it, but that's just the way it is. I've had enough, frankly.

[OldSoldier]

76. Burning draft cards won't work anymore

All that shit's on computer now. We're screwed.

[Rainbows]

50. Write Letters to the Editor ...

to your local papers. The kids might not read them but their parents might. If letters flooded local papers across this nation, general public knowledge of the return of the draft would turn this into a 'Campaign Issue' that would have to be addressed.

[tabasco]

10. Hi LH!! What's your favorite part of Canada?

Great idea, by the way. I'd move there in a heartbeat if I had any employment offer.

[liberalhistorian]

14. Hi Geoff!!

Where have YOU been lately? As for Canada, I like pretty much all of it, although Toronto is an especially wonderful city.

I took the Skilled Worker Immigrant Test and got a 74, you needed at least a 67 to pass. I've checked out the legal employment situation (I'm a paralegal, as you know), and the market is wide open, particularly for those who know an aspect of international law. But there is, indeed, a market for those who know a particular area of American law as well. Since you're an attorney, maybe we should move there and open a law office ourselves, lol!

[carols]

16. How do you go about taking this test?

I am a Systems Analyst (emphasis on software testing). What qualifications do you have to have in order to take the test?
Carol

[liberalhistorian]

19. Try this link

for the Skilled Workers Immigration Test: Citizen and Immigration Canada (CIC). Hope it works!

Oh, damn, it didn't work! I'll try to figure it out, because that's the name of the link someone else posted a couple of months ago that I used to take the test. But also try googling Immigration Canada or Immigration to Canada, it'll bring up a ton of info.

[carols]

27. Got it

Link is here: Skilled Worker Self-Assessment.
I googled the name of the test. Doh! I should have thought of that :-)
Carol

[worldgonekrazy]

60. I HIGHLY recommend Vancouver

British Columbia is great...extremely beautiful. Plus, Vancouver is a very international city with a great feel to it and a lot of cultural benefits. I'm thinking about making my way there myself once I graduate (hopefully before June 2005).

[Indiana_Dem]

68. What about nurses?

Surely they need nurses in Canada! (albeit there still may be some SARS running around up there)lol

[Bandit]

55. Depending on what skills you possess ~ Yukon Territory is bustling

Huge building boom going on now. Whitehorse is booming. It is also a really nice place to live.

[Unforgiven]

22. Sorry.......

...........no Canada for draft dodgers, you will be detained and returned to the U.S. for processing and fined. Now where would you like the bail monies sent to get you out of jail?

[alfredo]

35. Sweden is lovely this time of year.

[tabasco]

39. Draft dodger??

I'm a vet with two combat tours.

[Bandit]

47. Canada feels they should take care of their citizens

They have health care for all and have been running a surplus for the last six years straight. Not all of Canada is cold and the air is much much cleaner than in the USA. Crime is much lower also. It is actually a very good country to raise a family. They actually value people before corporations. Good Luck to you and maybe we will meet there some time.

[5thGenDemocrat]

75. Well, not cold to YOU, Bandit

Judging from the flag, YOU live in Alaska.
I live 120 miles north of Canada's southernmost point and it gets cold in Saginaw. Of course, it gets cold in Iraq, too -- so I can dig what you're really getting at here.
John
I could never leave Saginaw myself, even if the US was ruled by a tinhorn dictator (see? I told you). But anyone who's passing through enroute to Canada should stop in for coffee and a snack. Two hours from my front door and you're in Sarnia or Windsor (your pick).

[carols]

6. Agreed...and those who think that proposing the draft would be a deterrent

to the wealthy are sadly misguided. God bless Charlie Rangel, but he was wrong, wrong, wrong. The children of the wealthy will evade the draft one way or the other, no matter how the bill is written. It has always been that way and it always will be. Does anyone actually think the GOP would allow a bill to go through that did not allow a loophole for their children to buy their way out of? That's really naive...the poor will be conscripted, the rich kids will be busy washing their hair.
Carol

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. two LARGE exceptions

but it was another era

WW I

WWII

[Kazak]

37. WW II...I.

Sure hope not.

[liberalhistorian]

11. The children of the wealthy

upper-crust and politicians have ALWAYS managed to avoid service, from the time of the American Revolution onward. It really began in earnest during the Civil War, when rich kids would give someone a few hundred bucks (which was a LOT of money at that time) to take their place if they were drafted. Or they would simply buy out the draft board.

[NicoleM]

12. Thank you

for keeping us updated on this. I have several male relatives in their teens and early twenties, and I'm very worried for them.

[mistertrickster]

13. Don't you just marvel at the PNAC's ability to just ignore reality?

Huge budget surpluses, tax cuts for the rich, and now multiple wars so that we're running out of soldiers . . .

Why do the pundits insist on calling us liberals the ones who live in "la la land?"

[T Bone]

15. yes and I marvel at Americans who ignore the reality of PNAC & the draft

but soon they will get what they wished for. Of course the Bush regime will keep them hopped up on good propaganda-they will still never notice. Will they ? Dare they?

[sventvkg]

17. Tell the kids you know to give the finger to the Govt if drafted

Tell them ALL Em MASS To tell the Gove to F### Off!!! Blow up their draft cards...The Old PNAC Guys can go to war....

[whathappened]

18. when will these

numnuts in d.c. put there dam teeth back in there mouths and start acting like grown up , we don't need a draft , if we would just mind our own dam buiness and stop trying to be something were not in this world , there is such a short time from birth to death , why do we need to rush it by gunning everybody down befor there time

[KoKo]

20. Good for you.....seeing this between the "lies and spin!" Every Candidate

needs to understand that we "active Dems" are upset about this and see it for what it is! We want answers from our Candidates....What will YOU
do about THE DRAFT? Get it on the Dem Table NOW! This issue is a TOTAL HOT BUTTON. Because, not only will our Sons be drafted, but now our Daughters! What's fair is fair. If our Sons have to go....so will our Daughters. Don't know how this will play with Bush's 60% approval.

Maybe all folks in that percent are happy with this.....but I don't think so.....

[kalian]

23. The only army I will fight for...is the Resistance Army that will form....

here in the States.
Who is with me?! :mad:

[sventvkg]

24. I am with you...So are a few of my former Spec. Forces Friends...

This is OUR fucking country...NOT the PNAC Facist's....I'm sick of it and would see them all Hanged for TREASON Against the American People....FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT...

[Unforgiven]

25. I will...

...........but it better be damn soon, i'm not waiting 10 or 15 years for the rest of these people to wake up.

[liberalhistorian]

28. See, that's the thing,

I don't think I can take the stupid people that much longer. I've been fighting this shit since Reagan was elected when I was in high school, and right now I'm feeling that if people want to destroy their country by voting for and supporting the wingnuts and repukes and neocons, even after everything they've done, then I've had enough. There's only so much you can take.

[Unforgiven]

31. Agreed

And that's where I fail to understand why we aren't comming together here about what we should be doing to effect a cure if you will for this problem. Should we stay and fight? Do we all move to one state or area of the country? or do we GTFO? No concensus here........ I fail to understand completely why we aren't more cohesive about a very serious issue? What's plan 'B' if things go downhill quickly, do we bolt for distant shores?

[carols]

33. These are really important questions you ask

And I can see the "stay and fight" point of view. I am a fighter most definitely and if it were just me I WOULD be burning that draft card in the streets. But I am not ready to say that I would make that decision for my kids either. Maybe they would just arrest them and let them go later, but this is not your typical administration. This is a shoot-first-and-grab-your-manhood-with-pride administration. The protests at the RNC in NY will be very portentious of things to come, I think. I'll be there, though. But I'll be leaving the kids at home.
Carol

[worldgonekrazy]

62. There needs to be some debate on DU about this

We need to have an understanding of what should be done should a day come when it has to be done.

[wingnut]

34. Hey!

What have you got against wingnuts?

[liberalhistorian]

44. LOL!

I don't think Skinner and company's server would hold the volumes I could write in response to that question!

[worldgonekrazy]

61. Part of me thinks a draft simply could not happen

I would think, and maybe I am giving people too much of a benefit of the doubt, but I think that there would be a huge outcry and people would simply REFUSE to go. I think it could constitute as the "straw that broke the camel's back."

[Indiana_Dem]

70. That's what my husband says:

He's from Vietnam and the only war he or his children will fight will be on our own soil.

[Nederland]

26. $100 says you are wrong

And I'm not talking about existing soldiers having their terms extended, I'm talking about a real live draft like the one we had during the Vietnam war. As I have said many many times before, it will never happen for the following reasons:

1) The White House doesn't want it.
2) Congress doesn't want it.
3) The Pentagon doesn't want it.

So if you want to bet that there will be a draft like the one I describe above before the end of 2005, I'll take that bet in a heart beat.

Easy money.

[Unforgiven]

29. Take It

I would rather see you take my $100 than have it happen.

[PSR40004]

32. I think you are right, it's not wanted by anyone. NT

[Dems Will Win]

36. A point-by-point refutation

Nederland said:

1) The White House doesn't want it.
2) Congress doesn't want it.
3) The Pentagon doesn't want it.

1) Don't watch what they say, watch what the White House does. They are spending $28 million to reduce the DRAFT ACTIVATION time from 8 months to 75 days by March 31, 2005 (http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html)

2) Bush just has to say "we're not going to CUT AND RUN FROM IRAQ" and the GOP Congress will give him the DRAFT. Just an authorization vote.

3) You probably think the Pentagon wants the Volunteer Army only. Well sure they do, but right in the Mission of the Selective Service, it says the Volunteer Army was only intended to be sufficient in peacetime. Well that sufficiency just fell through the floor:

-snip-

According to their contracts, expectations and desires, all three soldiers should have been civilians by now. But Fontaine and Costas are currently serving in Iraq, and Eagle has just been deployed. On their Army paychecks, the expiration date of their military service is now listed sometime after 2030 -- the payroll computer's way of saying, "Who knows?"

The three are among thousands of soldiers forbidden to leave military service under the Army's "stop-loss" orders, intended to stanch the seepage of troops, through retirement and discharge, from a military stretched thin by its burgeoning overseas missions. "It reflects the fact that the military is too small, which nobody wants to admit," said Charles Moskos of Northwestern University, a leading military sociologist.

To the Pentagon, stop-loss orders are a finger in the dike -- a tool to halt the hemorrhage of personnel, and maximize cohesion and experience, for units in the field in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Through a series of stop-loss orders, the Army alone has blocked the possible retirements and departures of more than 40,000 soldiers, about 16,000 of them National Guard and reserve members who were eligible to leave the service this year. Hundreds more in the Air Force, Navy and Marines were briefly blocked from retiring or departing the military at some point this year.

By prohibiting soldiers and officers from leaving the service at retirement or the expiration of their contracts, military leaders have breached the Army's manpower limit of 480,000 troops, a ceiling set by Congress. In testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee last month, Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, disclosed that the number of active-duty soldiers has crept over the congressionally authorized maximum by 20,000 and now registered 500,000 as a result of stop-loss orders. Several lawmakers questioned the legality of exceeding the limit by so much.

-snip-

It's so bad, they just deployed the Army Color Guard to Iraq. You know they've reached the end if they're doing that!

Bush has broken the back of the Volunteer Force, that's the reality, and if we want to stay in Iraq past March 2005, we either have to double deploy the 3rd ID and the Guard and Marines OR we extend this deployment coming up and then bring in 80,000 to 100,000 draftees by the Fall of 2005. Those are the numbers.

Bush '04 = DRAFT '05

[diamond14]

38. Honor Guard from Arlington National Cemetery just left...I said

good-bye to two of them right outside the door of my apartment complex....located in Alexandria, Virginia....just a few minutes from the pentagon....

I asked them how they felt about their deployment....both admitted that they had gotten sick of flying to Dover, picking up bodies, and then standing at Arlington while lots of families cry...

as they walked away in uniform, carrying their gear...I felt real sad about who will be left to bury the dead...but I guess they'll put someone over there at the cemetary....and I remembered when my cousin came home from Vietnam in a box (Charlie, HM3 Medic...silver star, purple heart, 19 years old, not yet old enough to vote)....

every single soldier that I have spoken with lately (and I live in a huge complex that rents to short-term soldiers, and is near several big bases and the pentagon)...every one says that their friends and collegues want OUT...and they will NOT re-enlist...

[King Coal]

41. Thanks DWW

That's a fine piece of work. I'll start spreading the word where I can. :kick:

[Dems Will Win]

46. A salute to YOU!

Work it. If everyone at DU, told everyone every day "Did you hear, Bush is going to REINSTATE THE DRAFT IF HE GETS RE-ELECTED?"

This election is over in a couple of months. The media be damned--or they will finally pick this up and when they look into it--watch out! There's no way to cover up this one!

[Rainbows]

51. If Everyone at DU ...

wrote a Letter to the Editor of their local papers, the public awareness of the return of the draft would turn this into a Campaign Issue, that would have to be addressed in the Debates.

Public Awareness = Public Clamoring = Campaign Issue = Debate = More public awareness.

If the public becomes aware a involuntary conscription could effect their sons, daughters, cousins, friends ... it becomes 'very' upfront and personal, leads to activism which leads to votes. It is a long tested and successful, progressive way to political change. It all starts and ends with us. :-)

[Rainbows]

52. Sorry, I had a heavy finger on the Post key, This was a dup.

Deleted Dup.

[worldgonekrazy]

63. Why did Bush want to break the back of the volunteer army?

I don't understand this.

[Dems Will Win]

64. He didn't want to, he was just stupid about it

The way he didn't plan for the peace, the way he blew off France and Russia for foreign troops to help out, the invasion of Iraq in the first place is a medium-size war and the Volunteer Army was only intended to serve in peacetime, never in war (SSS Mission Statement).

Plus the treatment of the troops (1.5 liters of water a day in a 5-liter situation), poor health care for wounded when they came back, little body armor or Humvee armor (50%), helicopters without armor! (most from Guard units), NO TOILET PAPER EVEN AT TIMES, Longer deployments, etc. etc. etc. Troops will now vote against Bush or not vote (lots of them) and they are certainly not re-enlisting at peacetime percentages.

Plus the reconstruction is going nowhere, Bechtel and Halliburton workers are terrified and just stay in their living compounds, Baghdad w/o electricity 16 hours a day because the turbine replacements needed are made by the French and Bechtel not allowed to even talk to the French by the neo-cons. Now no democracy either as elections in Iraq put off 2 days ago for 2 years because Shia would just take over.

Biggest mess you ever saw and few willing now to die for Halliburton and the neo-con PNAC Plan.

[OldSoldier]

77. A conscript army is much cheaper than a volunteer army

That's the only thing I can think of.

The volunteer army has a lot of Quality of Life initiatives that a conscript army wouldn't need. Example: troop billeting. Fort Bragg is in the process of building new barracks for all of its unaccompanied soldiers. They're nice. It's a mix of one-troop and two-troop rooms, each room has its own latrine, there are two cable-TV hookups and two telephone jacks in each...IIRC there's broadband Internet running through the whole building. They're paying $6 million to house one brigade.

A conscript army can be housed in open-bay barracks because you don't have to worry about whether they'll reenlist. As Skeletor once said, draftees don't add long-term value to the Army. Just throw up a 40 x 60 steel building with some windows in the sides of it and you can house 250 soldiers using bunk beds and steel wall lockers.

Likewise, conscripts don't need recreational facilities, large post exchanges or parking for their cars. And you don't have to pay them very much. You also don't need family services because conscripts leave their families at home.

[MattNC]

72. not quite

1) Don't watch what they say, watch what the White House does. They are spending $28 million to reduce the DRAFT ACTIVATION time from 8 months to 75 days by March 31, 2005 (http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html)

The White House is not leading this effort - SSS is doing it on their own.

2) Bush just has to say "we're not going to CUT AND RUN FROM IRAQ" and the GOP Congress will give him the DRAFT. Just an authorization vote.

It really isn't that simple - even with a GOP Congress. You completely ignore the political effects of a draft.

3) You probably think the Pentagon wants the Volunteer Army only. Well sure they do, but right in the Mission of the Selective Service, it says the Volunteer Army was only intended to be sufficient in peacetime. Well that sufficiency just fell through the floor:

Myers and Rummy are huge supporters of AVF - no reason to think they've changed their minds. And I'd say that SSS statement is wrong, but thats just my opinion.

[Nederland]

78. So....

...are you accepting the bet?

[liberalhistorian]

45. While I wish you were right, I must

respectfully disagree. They are already quietly laying the groundwork, and they have been for months now. They are already beginning their propaganda campaign, albeit very subtly, to get people used to the idea and more accepting of it.

There is simply no way that they can maintain the needed troop levels in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other areas, and start the wars they want to start in order to keep the "war on terra" going and keep us in a perpetual state of war so that we will be ever more dependent on the Bushistas, without some kind of draft. It just cannot be done. And you need to watch what they DO and not what they SAY. In the past three years, we've seen things happen and seen the Bushistas do things and get away with things that were formerly unthinkable and that we NEVER EVER would have expected to happen. This is a new world now, with Shrub playing the 9/11 card for all it's worth and getting away with it so far, with no sign of that ending. He will continue to abuse the military and play with the lives of soldiers to further his own political agenda and ambitions, and I'm convinced he'll bring back some form of the draft in order to do so.

And just think how he could manipulate unemployment, then, with a draft, make it much lower than it otherwise would have been.

[diamond14]

30. Vietnam regurgitated....time to STAND UP.....March 20, 2004 (pic)

if you don't want the draft, then STAND UP and take action

STAND UP....in cities all across America, on March 20, 2003
(the ONE year anniversary of bush* 6-week war...)
YOUR help is needed to set up these protests all across America...there are small efforts and big efforts needed...any effort is very useful to making the message heard...just hit any link and read how YOU can help today....it's easy...

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=2136
http://www.votenowar.org/
http://www.vvaw.org/events/
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/m20/index.html





if not YOU, who?.....if not NOW, when?


just like Vietnam....

Vietnam Veterans -those who got back alive and could still walk..

[dusty64]

40. I believe this is happening also.

This will be the defining moment for the Democratic party. If they do NOT fight this tooth and nail and God forbid enable it, they will NEVER receive my support again. Not another vote, not another penny, not another word of support. I'm sure I speak for millions who agree, this will be the time finally for opposition and leadership. No more blood for corporate interests!

[randr]

42. Where are the Bush lovers?

I think a call should go out to all the bushosexuals to sign up and get with the war program. Where are all the new war lovin recruits?

[ProfessorGAC]

43. It Also Adheres To Their Bankrupt Economic Philosophies

By bringing people into the service against their will, the employment base falls. This allows unemployment to fall, as the numbers of people making up the whole number is smaller. They look like they've accomplished something.

In addition, by deferring 10% (or whatever) of the adult population's entry into the workforce, it gives those approaching retirement more time to age. So, as the draftees become available, more folks are retiring and the odds of a veteran being unemployed go down. Again, a smoke and mirrors way to make the idea look good. It's self-fulfilling and has nothing to do with good economic policy, but they would take such credit.

Lastly, you'd have a vast proportion of the workforce of the country operating at lower wages than in the private sector. So, after 4 years, when they entered the work force, the private sector salaries could be lower, since this large population would be used to really small money. That sets folks up to accept smaller salaries. Even when giving raises of 2, or 3, or 4%, the compounding of a smaller number always stays smaller and salaries get "capped" over the long haul.

So, this idea would be consistent with how these maroons think the economy should work.
The Professor

[Rainbows]

53. Interesting Progression with Insight ...

Thank You. :-)

[ProfessorGAC]

56. Your Most Welcome

The Professor

[ElementaryPenguin]

54. Dean/Clark/Kerry/Kucinich, etc. should talk this up NOW!!

From now until the general election, every time they open their yaps, Dems should point out BushCo's plans to reinstate THE DRAFT!!!!!! Even many Joe Six packs don't want their kids carted off to become sitting duck, cannon fodder!

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. Yep, the Dems need to pounce on this

as hard as they do the jobs issue.

[Gordon25]

57. The Wurlitzer turns

From the front page of the metro section of the (Tucson) Arizona Daily Star today:
http://www.azstarnet.com/star/Tue/31230SelectiveService.html

"Tucson, Arizona  Tuesday, 30 December 2003

Signing up for draft to change

Registering will be tied to getting driver's license
By Carol Ann Alaimo
ARIZONA DAILY STAR

America hasn't had a military draft since 1973, but Arizona intends to be ready if it ever happens again.

Under a new state law that takes effect Jan. 1, men between 18 and 25 will be automatically registered for selective service whenever they apply for driver's licenses or state identification cards. <snip>

Personal note: Law was pushed through at the tail end of the last legislative session by a Republican dominated state legislature.

"We are going to use the driver's license for the purpose of seeing that young men are registered," said Tucsonan Victor Schwanbeck, director of the state's selective service system.

But "this doesn't mean that the draft is coming back," said Schwanbeck, a lawyer.

He said the state is simply seeking a fairer and more efficient way of ensuring that young men comply with a decades-old federal law that requires them to register for selective service. <snip>

And if you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell ya'.

Gordon25

[Brian_Expat]

58. The thing that frightens me. . .

Is how Americans love denial.

I lived in Silicon Valley in Y2K and could see the signs of the impending great tech crash all around me -- I tried to warn people and got laughed off as a "crank" or a "kook." Lots of friends who joined start-ups I tried to warn them from ended up losing everything -- their homes, their cars, every possession, when those start-ups tanked.

I tried to warn people about the PATRIOT Act and the Iraq war and people told me I was nuts and kooky etc. Then the PATRIOT Act passed and Iraq was invaded.

The signs are all around us. Anyone with half a brain can see them. But people continue to ignore the danger signs until it's too late. It's like the claims that beef is safe -- "the government says it is." People are continuing to say that "the government says that the draft isn't coming."

It reminds me of when all these silly people in denial told me "but the CEO said there'd be no layoffs and that we are doing very well -- he cannot be wrong, you're nuts." Then at the end of the month, most of the staff, including all the deniers, were let go with no severance as the company careened into bankruptcy. :scared:

[worldgonekrazy]

59. My advice is to leave now...seriously

They'll do something to make sure people can't defect Vietnam style once the draft gets going. The only way to avoid it, IMO, is a Bush defeat in '04 (but that still doesn't mean it won't happen) or to leave the country NOW before it is too late.

[Dems Will Win]

66. kick

[oasis]

67. Kick for draft age DUers.

[opihimoimoi]

69. Ever since the Good Ole Days of Plundering and Looting

Generals had a hard time recuiting. What can I say..?

[oasis]

79. Since so many at Free Republic are pro war, they should help with the

recruiting.

[MattNC]

71. being 23

when this would likely happen i'll probably be drafted unless i decide to join up next year (which i'm leaning towards not doing these days) - c'est la vie..

[happyslug]

73. Less than 25% of the National Guard has been called up for duty

Bush does not want to call them up for the same reason President Johnson did not used the National Guard in Vietnam, calling up the Guard would bring to a head any political opposition to the war.

The real issue between now and November 2004, is how much more of the Guard will Bush call up? He has to get more troops, he will NOT adopt a draft till after 2004, that leaves the National Guard. If something happens in Saudi Arabia the Guard may have to be called up.

After Novemeber 2004, the troop shortage will be even more severe. I see the Draft at that point UNLESS THE DEMOCRATS MAKE A BIG ISSUE OF IT DURING THE ELECTION. The Democrats MUST oppose any draft. If the Democrates do not, than even if a Democrat wins in November 2004, he will face the issue of withdrawing from Iraq or adopting the Draft (With calling out the rest of the National Guard an alternative).

I use to downplay adoption of the draft as not possible, I no longer have that feeling. I See both parties wanting to stay in Iraq for its oil. Oil is why we are in Iraq, I do not think oil is worth the price of an American's life, but Bush the GOP and (unless the Democrats make an issue of NO Draft) the Democratic Party all perfer a draft to abandoning Iraq. I forsee a call out o the Guard at the same time for I see Bush wanting to attack both Iran and Saudi Arabia for their oil. Such an attack would need a secure line of supply, and that is through Beruit and Syria (which is why Syria is on the target list).

Taking all three countries will be easy (just as easy as taking Iraq), the real problem is holding onto them and that requires infantry. Infantry equiped with light trucks NOT tanks or other armoured vehicles. When it become clear that the equipment will be light trucks not armoured vehicles, I see even less people enlisting, making the draft even more likely.

Occupying a mid-east empire so that domestic gasoline prices can stay under $2.00 a gallon. That is the goal of Bush and company. If the US is likly the economy will crack and the US goes broke before this all occurs. It is bad when you have to look to a disaster in the economy to stop the GOP from permantely damaging the country, but it looks that what will happen. We run out of money as we try to occupay our new mideast empire.

[Norquist Nemesis]

74. Mike Webb's discussing this now

on KIRO.