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Expanded Patriot Act (HR 2417) passed in secret, by voice vote

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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:13 PM
Original message
Expanded Patriot Act (HR 2417) passed in secret, by voice vote
I know this is old, but I somehow missed it until now. I searched for anything on this board about it, but could only find one post in a thread about another subject, so apoligies if I somehow missed the major post about it.

It's actually called the INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION AGREEMENT

This was passed by voice vote in secret, so there is no way to know who voted for it. I wonder how many were even there for the vote. Total Information Awareness is back as well.

Bush signed new legislation last Saturday which increased the federal powers to investigate and reduces the privacy rights of American citizens.

H.R. 2417, INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION AGREEMENT OF 2004

Whitehouse Statement on HR 2417 (December 13, 2003)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031213-3.html

HR 2417 was cleared by the Congress on November 21, 2003
http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=4862&sequence=0v

Comments on HR 2417 :
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h112203.html

From Ron Paul:

"It appears we are witnessing a stealth enactment of the enormously unpopular 'Patriot II' legislation that was first leaked several months ago. Perhaps the national outcry when a draft of the Patriot II act was leaked has led its supporters to enact it one piece at a time in secret. Whatever the case, this is outrageous and unacceptable. I urge each of my colleagues to join me in rejecting this bill and its incredibly dangerous expansion of Federal police powers. "



Bush signs bill extending FBI powers
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/montereyherald/news/politics/7490773.htm
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- President Bush has signed legislation making it easier for FBI agents investigating terrorism to demand financial records from casinos, car dealerships, and other businesses.

The changes were included in a bill authorizing 2004 intelligence programs. Most of the details of the bill are secret, including the total cost of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. That would be slightly more than Bush had requested.

Bush signed the bill Saturday, the White House announced.

The bill expands the number of businesses from which the FBI and other US authorities conducting intelligence work can demand financial records without seeking court approval.
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souphound Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. One step closer to a "Police State"
We're almost there.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Hi souphound!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. They'll need those added powers...
After they declare martial law...

Tommy Franks: Martial Law Will Replace Constitution After Next Terror Attack
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/211103martiallaw.html

It's comong, friends, unless you can stop it now.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. How can it be legal in the most basic sense to slither a privacy invasion
act through in the MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT?

This is bull***T. Who do we contact on this? This is unbelievable.
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absyntheNsugar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. No ***king way!!
Did this draft include the bit about revoking citizenship without having to provide evidence?

FA**, ^&$@!!! cowardly congressman.

Time to put aside all party differences and stand behind Ron Paul(R-TX) on this one, as bad as he is - at least he's fighting for Democracy!
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. The countdown is on. American Democracy ends
...on November 2, 2004.

Or it just might, maybe, if we're exceedingly lucky and God decides he loves us after all, survive. Maybe. But it's pretty damn close to dead right now.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
51. If you think about it...
It ended on 12/12/00. with the 5-4 decision.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Been saying that since 2001
I'm always ahead of the curve, as are most here at DU.

It's why, if this were the 1600s, the Busheviks would be burning us at the stake.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you for posting this.
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 12:43 PM by enough
It happened just before the great Saddam spider-rat-hole ruckus, and it got completely lost.

This is a very significant story, which we need to get out to the various media.

Great links -- thanks again.
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. timing is everything...
galling
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Blade Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. This pisses me off...
The cowards only vote by voice, and on top of that, vote to take away their OWN rights too!!! How absurd is that? Can you say 1984???? I pray to God that a Democrat makes it into office next year, not only for me and my rights, but for the rights of others!!!!
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't think secrecy was necessary, most voters will be in favor

Despite all the talk of "freedom," it seems to me that in actual practice, freedom is becoming less and less popular.

People, even people on here, seem to be developing a real affinity for restrictions and controls on everything they do, say, even think.

While I am aware that a certain level of that is a planned result of the 9-11 events, I admit I would not have expected it to be so pervasive and irrespective of ideology.

And we are still in an early phase of the operation!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. agree with you--but I wasn't surprised
it's human nature to "go along," very difficult to resist the majority. Even among "free spirits" a sense of disapprobation pervades all.

To march to a different drummer, you need to be able to hear that beat as it is smothered and overrun by the noise of rampant consumer society.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Early phase of the operation
I'm with you, Ductape F. - it is still early in all this. But i have a hunch that the True Face of the regime will be plain enough for everyone to see before the R. convention in NYC next September.

Just going with instinct and intuition here. That is my sense of it -- but fear is such a powerful motivator, that no doubt some citizens will either choose not to look upon that face at all, or to embrace it rather than face it.

But all of this, too, shall pass.
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absyntheNsugar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. We need to know which Democrats voted for this
We need to ask them - especially those running for President (Kerry, Kucinich, Gephardt, Lieberman) and if they say they did, or refuse to answer - drop them like a hot potato.

This is pretty serious. More serious than support of the IWR.
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Blade Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I agree with you...but...
remember, ABB 2004.
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absyntheNsugar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I know...that's why I can sleep knowing
the two front runners are not congressmen.

Not saying they wouldn't have voted for it, but at least I know they didn't.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. The repukes woul not allow a roll call
They aare in the majority. If there had been a roll call it wouldn't have passed. The rep. didn't want their name on the dirty legislation. Voters wouldn't like it. The republicans break tons of rules in congress. The put additional stuff in the bill late at night. Force votes and break arms of their guys. 3hours to pass a bill after the 15 minute time was up. That is how we can get them. Rules are Rules and they break them all the time. Dictatorship.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. My predictions on the vote
Kucinich voted against, Lieberman voted for. Kerry and Gephardt went Xmas shopping and skipped the vote.
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rep. Ron Paul/Rep Dennis Moore
PAUL:
Mr. Speaker, I rise with great concerns over the Intelligence Authorization Conference Report. I do not agree that Members of Congress should vote in favor of an authorization that most know almost nothing about--including the most basic issue of the level of funding.

What most concerns me about this conference report, though, is
something that should outrage every single American citizen. I am
referring to the stealth addition of language drastically expanding FBI powers to secretly and without court order snoop into the business and financial transactions of American citizens. These expanded internal police powers will enable the FBI to demand transaction records from businesses, including auto dealers, travel agents, pawnbrokers and more, without the approval or knowledge of a judge or grand jury.

This was written into the bill at the 11th hour over the objections of mmbers of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which would normally have jurisdiction over the FBI.

The Judiciary Committee was frozen out of the process.

It appears we are witnessing a stealth enactment of the enormously unpopular "Patriot II" legislation that was first leaked several months ago. Perhaps the national outcry when a draft of the Patriot II act was leaked has led its supporters to enact it one piece at a time in secret. Whatever the case, this is outrageous and unacceptable. I urge each of my colleagues to join me in rejecting this bill and its incredibly dangerous expansion of Federal police powers.

I also have concerns about the rest of the bill. One of the few
things we do know about this final version is that we are authorizing
even more than the president has requested for the intelligence
community. The intelligence budget seems to grow every year, but we
must ask what we are getting for our money. It is notoriously difficult to assess the successes of our intelligence apparatus, and perhaps it is unfair that we only hear about its failures and shortcomings.

However, we cannot help but be concerned over several such failures in recent years. Despite the tens of billions we spend on these myriad intelligence agencies, it is impossible to ignore the failure of our federal intelligence community to detect and prevent the September 11 attacks. Additionally, it is becoming increasingly obvious that our intelligence community failed completely to accurately assess the nature of the raqi threat. These are by any measure grave failures, costing us incalculably in human lives and treasure.

Yet from what little we can know about this bill, the solution is to fund more of the same.

I would hope that we might begin coming up with new approaches to our
intelligence needs, perhaps returning to an emphasis on the proven
value of human intelligence and expanded linguistic capabilities for
our intelligence personnel.

I am also concerned that our scarce resources are again being
squandered pursuing a failed drug war in Colombia, as this bill
continues to fund our disastrous Colombia policy. Billions of dollars
have been spent in Colombia to fight this drug war, yet more drugs than ever are being produced abroad and shipped into the United States-- ncluding a bumper crop of opium sent by our new allies in Afghanistan.

Evidence in South America suggests that any decrease in Colombian
production of drugs for the US market has only resulted in increased
production in neighboring countries. As I have stated repeatedly, the
solution to the drug problem lies not in attacking the producers abroad or in creating a militarized police state to go after the consumers at home, but rather in taking a close look at our seemingly insatiable desire for these substances. Until that issue is addressed we will continue wasting billions of dollars in a losing battle.

In conclusion, I strongly urge my colleagues to join me in rejecting
this dangerous and expensive bill.
____________________
Congressional Record: December 9, 2003 (Extensions)
Page E2491

CONFERENCE REPORT ON H.R. 2417, INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR
FISCAL YEAR 2004
_____


speech of

HON. DENNIS MOORE

of kansas

in the house of representatives

Thursday, November 20, 2003

Mr. MOORE. Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to one provision of the conference report before us today, which causes me to vote against the entire measure.

This legislation authorizes classified amounts in fiscal year 2004
for 14 U.S. intelligence agencies and intelligence-related activities
of the U.S. government--including the CIA and the National Security
Agency, as well as foreign intelligence activities of the Defense
Department, the FBI, the State Department, the Homeland Security
Department, and other agencies. H.R. 2417 covers CIA and general
intelligence operations, including signals intelligence, clandestine
human-intelligence programs and analysis, and covert action
capabilities. It also authorizes covert action programs, research and
development, and projects to improve information dissemination. All of these are important and vital programs, which I support.

I am voting against this measure today, however, to draw attention to a provision which I believe should have been the subject of more
rigorous congressional analysis than merely an up-or-down vote as part of a larger conference agreement. This measure expands the definition of "financial institution" to provide enhanced authority for intelligence community collection activities designed to prevent, deter and disrupt terrorism and espionage directed against the United States and to enhance foreign intelligence efforts. Banks, credit unions and other financial institutions currently are required to provide certain financial data to investigators generally without a court order or grand jury subpoena. The conference agreement expands the list to include car dealers, pawnbrokers, travel agents, casinos and other businesses.

This provision allows the U.S. government to have, through use of
"National Security Letters," greater access to a larger universe of
information that goes beyond traditional financial records, but is
nonetheless crucial in tracking terrorist finances or espionage
activities. Current law permits the FBI to use National Security
Letters to obtain financial records from defined financial institutions for foreign intelligence investigations. While not subject to court approval, the letters nonetheless have to be approved by a senior government official.

The PATRIOT Act earlier had altered the standard for financial records that could be subject to National Security Letters to include the records of someone "sought for" an investigation, not merely of the "target" of an investigation.

While this new provision of law included in the conference report
does not amend the PATRIOT Act, I agree with the six Senators who
recently wrote to the Senate Intelligence Committee and asked them not to move ahead with such a significant expansion of the FBI's
investigatory powers without further review. As they stated, public
hearings, public debate and legislative protocol are essential in
legislation involving the privacy rights of Americans. As a member of
the House Financial Services Committee, I am concerned that these new
provisions of law could be used to seize personal financial records
that traditionally have been protected by financial privacy laws. The
rush to judgment following the attacks of September 11, 2001, led to
the rapid enactment of the PATRIOT Act, a measure which has caused
substantial concerns among many Americans who value our
constitutionally-protected liberties. Now that we are able to legislate in this area with a lessened sense of urgency, I urge my colleagues to step back and return this provision of H.R. 2417 to committee, where it can undergo the rigors of the normal legislative process so that Congress, and all Americans, can pass an informed judgment upon its merit.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h112203.html
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Folks-this one
does away with any privacy when buying precious metals. What was the last vestige of obtaining currency anonimously is now gone. Pawn shops, car dealers anything involving currency trades is now open to warrantless access by the criminals, and they don't have to tell you they peeked. Much of the bill is classified so who knows what else is in there?

The Saddam thing was good cover for * to sign this Sovietized piece of trash.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. The slippery slope...
just got a little steeper.

:(
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. I put this in LBN last week but it was saddam day
and few noticed-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=269537

WASHINGTON -- President Bush signed legislation making it easier for FBI agents investigating terrorism to demand financial records from casinos, car dealerships and other businesses.

The changes were included in a bill authorizing 2004 intelligence programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. That would be slightly more than Bush had requested.
snip>

* requires the CIA director to prepare a report as soon as possible on what intelligence agencies have learned from their experiences in Iraq. An internal review has been under way. Both the House and Senate intelligence committees have been conducting their own inquiries on prewar intelligence.

* creates a new intelligence office in the Treasury Department to improve coordination with intelligence agencies on fighting terrorist financing.

* creates pilot programs to examine whether analysts from one agency should have access to raw data from another and to improve information sharing with state and local governments.

* authorizes agencies to continue research on computerized terrorism surveillance projects formerly operated by the Defense Department. Those projects were widely criticized on civil liberties grounds, prompting Congress to remove them from the Pentagon.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-bush-intelligence-bill,0,7800436.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines



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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I saw it, I was not able to post much that day, but the fact itself

that it occurred, and was ignored, says volumes.
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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
53. Very important remark!
"Few noticed".
What a coincidence that on that same weekend that Bush signed that bill Saddam was caught.
It surely was a coincidence. After all, I am not a conspiracy theorist.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. HOUSE BILLS CAN NOW BE PASSED BY VOICE VOTE IN SECRET???
:wtf:
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. most of them never read the first Patriot Act
They just waved their flags, voted yes and went back to selling their votes for filthy lucre.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. You bet. They control
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Didn't anybody catch this?
Tommy Franks predicts Saddam's capture. "can't say it will be within 19 or 43 days" but predicted he would be caught soon. Hmmmm.
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. They already had him on ice
Just waiting for the perfect time to distract the sheeple from the emerging realization that, yep, the Bushists had to know 9-11 was coming and so they could pass another draconian law...

Martial Law, folks.

Civil War II, next?

Blue staters v. red staters?
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. La Hood referred to it, too
He alluded to something big happening, and reporters asked him if he knew something they didn't know, and he said yes.

And George himself was bouncy as a Tigger the Friday before. Extremely abrasive and arrogant. He knew.
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populistmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Depressing
It's hard to even have hope anymore sometimes. :(
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
27. kick
what country do we live in?
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. really
I mean, REALLY

so the Senate has to pass this, too, right?

unless they passed some const amend that night, as well.

is there ANY way they can get to cloture on this?

could ANY dem vote for Kerry if he doensn't deMAND filibuster?

and where are the frickin DEMS on this?

are they reading the tea leaves, cowards that they appear to be, and divining that, indeed the sheep want this rebirth of the Enabling Act to transform our system forever?
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. If bush is signing the law, the senate already passed the bill
The Democrats are thoroughly ineffective as opposition in this winner-take-all environment. We lost what hope there was to stop the takeover in 2002. Nov. 2004 is our last chance.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. what the hell was I thinking....did I miss the signing part?
guess I must've thought I'd have heard about the Senate already passing something as momentous......was there anything in the news about this? don't remember anyway......was there a Senate Resolution 2417?

will check
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Found this
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm#P

shows schedule for Dec 17.

scroll about half way down.....

under the letter "P," first thing listed is PATRIOT Act II, and says it's still being drafted by JDept.

so is this entire thread wrong, in calling HR 2417 the new PATRIOT Act?
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. A turd by any other name.....
.....still stinks! :evilfrown:

Let's see, they are just now raising the threat level to high (orange) and are predicting attacks as bad as Sept. 11 or worse!

Feeling safer now that Saddam is in custody? :scared:

Where's my plastic sheeting and duct tape? :evilfrown:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. Doubleplus good!
Long live Big Brother!
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. "You can use an eraser on the drawing board or
a sledgehammer on the building site" -- Frank Lloyd Wright.

Similarly, we can simply vote for real change in 2004 -- and that means either Dennis Kucinich or Albert Sharpton -- or we can dither and lie to ourselves now and try to enact real change with the barrel of a gun and the blood of our children in another few years.

This is not rocket science. We can pay now when it's cheap, or later when it's dear. But we're not going to get it for free!

So what's it going to be?
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wanderingbear Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. This is an Attempt by the Conservitive coalition to Overthrow the...
constitution and the Rule of the people.. This has been going on for 40 years now.. Ever sence the Civil liberties Movement won their fight in the 70ies..The conservitive have been trying to over throw the constitution.. An act of War against the People of this Country if you ask me..
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
34. Are voice votes mentioned in the Constitution? (nt)
nt
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Zero Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
35. Well...
Freedom was nice while it lasted.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. Achtung, Baby !!!
:puke:
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. This isn't Patriot Act II (Thank God)
Whew!

I've been reading through the text of the bill and the statements made by the Congressman on the record against the bill. It is not the full expansion that Patriot Act II would have been. There are expansions very subject to serious government abuse, but it's not that whole nasty ball of sewage that Patriot II is.

The biggies:

Expansion 1: Expanding the definition of what a financial institution is. Pawn shops? You're kidding, right?

Expansion 2: Making CIA and NSA agents immune from "tort liability, to be acting within the scope of their office or employment when such Agency personnel take reasonable action, which may include the use of force, to--

`(A) protect an individual in the presence of such Agency personnel from a crime of violence;

`(B) provide immediate assistance to an individual who has suffered or who is threatened with bodily harm; or

`(C) prevent the escape of any individual whom such Agency personnel reasonably believe to have committed a crime of violence in the presence of such Agency personnel."


I agree... they've almost given CIA and NSA personnel police powers... but they aren't there yet.

Overall, the bill stinks to high heaven, but it's not as bad as I thought it was when I first read this thread.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. you're right about that.....just checked here
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm#P

it's still being drafted.

can you imagine how much WORSE it's going to be than HR 2417.

what about the Senate discussion (debate?) over their version of the above?

has there been any discussion of that at all?
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littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
40. I love the smell of Nazi Germany in the morning! NOT!
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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
44. Good-bye America,
It was fun while it lasted.



:dem:
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
45. kick for Sunday (nt)
.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. Keep this kicked for the 9-5 folks
they need to see it tommorrow
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Kick
.
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evil_orange_cat Donating Member (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
48. kick... I'm moving to Canada if Bush wins in 2004...
I love America, but I don't want my kids to grow up in a police state.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I don't want to...
Edited on Mon Dec-22-03 05:54 AM by fujiyama
live in a police state either, but I fear what was once great about this nation is no more. This is NOT the same country I was taught of in grade school. Our consititution is subverted by the likes of these traitors. That's right, these people are nothing more than traitors. Surely our SC which installed this regime in the first place will not invalidate and strike down such measures which reek of something in Soviet Russia East Germany. I won't compare it to Nazi Germany just yet...but little by litte. Either way the first example is bad enough.

Being a noncitizen in the process of becoming a citizen, I feel somewhat nervous to get books from the library. Asscroft's denials that library records are searched do not comfort me.

For example, I was about the borrow a book from the library (The Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes to be exact), but I feel somewhat nervous now. I think I would rather just buy the damn thing -- with CASH.

My mom told me my records would not be searched. This is of no comfort. The title of a book, if assumed to be suspicious, will alert the authortities. I trust no one in this government now.

If this sounds paranoid, so be it. I am paranoid.

The whole tracking of precious metals sounds especially worrisome. We are all now in a fish bowl, with Asscroft peering into it.

The whole idea of anonymity is dead. Such power unheeded and unchecked will be the death of the idea of America. I feel it is grasping for air.

Each article regarding the encroachment of our privacy and civil liberties makes me worry a little more. I have finally decided that if the PAII is passed, I will most likely leave this nation, once graduating college. The "constitutionality" of these bills will be validated and be made concrete once more reactionary lunatics are appointed to the SC. Forty plus years of right wing control will be soldified I fear.

Some we will speak to will simply say "oh this is just politics...both parties play the same games".

No, the republicans are not playing 'politics as usual'. They are transforming the political structure and the amount of power that resides in the government like never before.

We are giving up what this nation was founded on.

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soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
50. Is this the text of the bill passed?
Or was this based on the 'still in the hashing it over' stage since it's a conference report and dated November 19, 2003?

I'd really like to know what's in this Intelligence Act, but I'm having a brain disconnect this morning - (not a new development - ongoing filing system failure and holding capacity overload deficiency)

So I'm reading 'blah blah blah' instead of the actual words :crazy:

Conference Report on Intelligence Authorization Act for FY 2004
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_rpt/2004conf.html
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