Do you support the idea of a Progressive Income Tax?

[JanMichael]

Poll question: Do you support the idea of a Progressive Income Tax?

Especially when much the rest of Society is financed via Regressive Taxation.

[forgethell]

1. I'm not voting.

The IRS may be monitoring this site.

[Touchdown]

2. I voted Progressive.

The IRS would love it anyhow, so watch away!

[Selwynn]

3. Here's a far better poll:

Do you support a Progressive Income Tax?

1. Yes and I make 200,000+ a year
2. Yes and I make 100,000 - 200,000 a year
3. Yes and I make 50,000 - 100,000 a year
4. Yes and I make less than 50,000 a year
5. No and I make 200,000+ a year
6. No and I make 100,000 - 200,000 a year
7. No and I make 50,000 - 100,000 a year
8. No and I make less than 50,000 a year
9. Other (please explain)

[laura888]

20. agreed - can you post this poll? n/t

[Renew Deal]

4. Kick for Guy James n/t

:kick:

[liberalcapitalist]

5. a flat tax CAN be fair

I voted progressive, but a flat tax can be implemented in a fair and "progressive" manner.

Example: What if all personal income below $25,000 per year was not taxed at all? The tax rate above that would be flat... Say it was 30%... But someone making $50,000 would really only be paying 15%, since the first $25,000 would be untaxed. In conjunction with this, corporate taxes would be floored at $50,000. So small businesses would be able to grow, as they would pay ZERO taxes on profits up to $50,000. Over $50,000? 50% tax. This would return us to the small business econonmy that made the country great, and also it would cut into CEO pay (helping out the personal tax issues as well).

[0rganism]

19. A flat tax with a deductible is no flat tax at all

You essentially have 2 rates: 0% and 15%, or whatever your second rate is.

Basically, we're currently only a few rate steps beyond that with the system in place now. There's a top marginal rate of 35%, two middle rates of 27% and 30%, and two lower rates of 15% and 10%.

[wanderingbear]

6. Personally I perfer No taxes..But..

If we have to have taxes. A progressive one would be the best..With those earning under $25,000 a year paying no taxes..

[Deja Q]

34. I prefer no capitalism, and more to the point - no money

But those who make more from this society must in return pay more back into it. It's only fair, especially when they consider their employees to be no better than discardable then their usefulness ends, amongst other nasty realities.

[cirej2000]

7. What's the progressive tax?

From a numbers standpoint? Who pays what?

[wanderingbear]

10. RE.What is a Progressive Tax..

It is a sandard of Taxation in which level of income is taken into accout. Taxes are assessed by precentage on how much your yearly income is.. Those who dont make alot pay a smaller precentage and those who make more pay a larger precentage.. As opposed to a flat tax that makes you pay the same thing that the rich guy is paying no matter how much you make..

[pasadenaboy]

8. If you want a flat tax

you are not a democrat or a green. Period. The only way to get around that is a huge exemption for part of you income. The problem with that is then you have to phaze out mortgage deductions, etc which are so popular, you could never get it done.

[cirej2000]

9. Why not? And what is the progressive tax in %?

Please someone.

Anyway, nobody would ever do the flat tax. It would put 90% of the IRS out of business.

[wanderingbear]

11. A flat tax..

would put all but the richest people out of busness..

[pasadenaboy]

12. The flat tax is incredibly unfair

why should a family of four making $30,000 per year have to pay 20% of their income into taxes and a guy making $3M have to pay 20%? Its unfair to the poor because you take out a large percentage of their income, which they can't afford.

The point of a progressive tax code is that those who make more can afford to pay more in taxes to pay for the upkeep of society.

For example, if you make 35K a year, you pay 20% in tax. If you make 100K a year, you pay 30%, Now most people have deductions where they don't really pay those amounts, but the principle that you should contribute based on what you are able, rather than forcing the poor to contribute the same percentage is, in my opinion, one of the keystones of a just society.

[cirej2000]

14. You're not taking a larger percentage than you would a rich person!

But it's from a psychological standpoint more because there's less to go around. But doesn't the flat tax mean that there would be no more deductions?

I could still see having 0% for those who make less than a certain amount. Because hey, they're struggling. But then again student who's working a campus job or a highschool kid living with mom and dad and paying no rent those cases might make that unfair as well.

With the progressive tax you might have the rich guy who might figure he can keep more money if he takes less in who get a wage cut or defers money or some crap like that. If he really has more than he needs. Or a CEO who puts his salary back into the company...keeping a nice cushion for emergencies, etc.

Ahhh not a CPA by any means, but it's just tricky with both flat and progressive.

Someone's gonna get burned. And I don't think that all rich people are evil nor do I think that all poor people are lazy. We need to fix the tax system either way in my opinion before either would work. And that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[0rganism]

23. You're confusing tax rates with tax shelters

A progressive tax simply means, all else equal, the relative amount paid increases as one receives more money. If you want to simplify the system and make those rich folks more honest, just take away some loopholes. Cutting back to one marginal rate is unnecessary.

[sid dicious]

31. Just take away all loopholes...except maybe for

certain charities. Where the actual amounts donated can be accounted for.

No 10000 different ways to make deductions. Anyone who owns a house can make them though rich poor whatever.

A question I have is what if a person who was making 200K a year decides that he/she no longer wants to work in a high pressure job and decides to become a social worker at $20K a year. Would we tax their savings or what?

Is there a Tax Person in the house!?!?!?!

i hate tax time...not looking forward to the day when I have to use a 1040!!! Far off as that is!

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Sorry, you aren't in charge

Many Democrats support a flat tax. What this thread wildly misrepresents is what that means.

I support a flat tax with a big floor, say $30,000. Nothing under $30k is taxed. That means higher-income folks pay a higher percentage of taxes while still using the same fair tax structure that all enjoy.

Such a system solves instantly the ridiculous complexity of our current system that clearly only favors the rich and takes the pain out of the tax system.

For example, let's try a 20% tax rate so I can calculate it easily. The real rate would probably be higher:

Taxpayer A: Earns $30,000, pays no taxes/0% of income
Taxpayer B: Earns $50,000, pays $4,000 in taxes/8% of income
Taxpayer C: Earns $100,000, pays $14,000 in taxes/14% of income
Taxpayer D: Earns $200,000, pays $34,000 in taxes/17% of income

[0rganism]

22. This doesn't do a damn thing for the "complexity"

The complexity of our current system has little to do with the effective rate of individual taxation, and everything to do with the system of deductibles, shelters, and loopholes. From the taxpayer's viewpoint, the difference between looking at a preprinted table to find their effective tax under your system as opposed to the current one is negligible.

Why not tax individual income over $100k at 30%? You get more revenues that way, and only about 10% of taxpayers would pay the tax.

Why not tax individual income over $1M at 50%? Under 1% of taxpayers would pay the tax, and you'd get even more revenue.

Why not do all of the above, and publish the effective composite rate in an easy to use table, thus receiving even more revenue? That's pretty much what we're doing right now, and the government can barely pay its mortgage.

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. Why shouldn't all of us be treated equally?

Right now, the system is overly complex and clearly the rich or more knowledgeable benefit. That is inherently unfair. Two identical taxpayers could file two completely different returns and pay completely different tax amounts.

As for the rest, why are some Americans treated unequally under the law? I want a system that is equally fair or unfair to all.

[cryofan]

26. Hmmmm

Let's make it really fair: let's tax the hell out of the rich, and the upper income brackets and give the money to the less well off, and use the money to achieve economies of scale and leverage for such things as universal health care, etc.
BTW, you need to understand something: 50K is actually a high income for an American. In fact that income puts an individual in the top 10% or possible even higher...yeah, look it up....I have.....

[cryofan]

25. changing a percentage is hardly adding complexity

Obviously, as the other responder below pointed out, the real complexity of the tax system is caused by the labrynthine brambles of the deductions (hello!?) and other aspects of the tax system, and certainly NOT because someone at bracket Y pays N% and someone in bracket X pays M%....hellooooooo???


Anyway, here is a more desirable set of tax brackets and taxable percents:

Taxpayer A: Earns $20,000, pays no taxes/0% of income

and there would be gradations up to next highest bracket

Taxpayer B: Earns $30,000, pays 20% ($6000) of income

and gradations, etc....

Taxpayer C: Earns $40,000, pays 25% ($10,000)
....
Taxpayer D: Earns $50,000, pays 30% ($15K)
.....

Taxpayer E: Earns $60,000, pays 35% (21K) of income

at 80K, pay 45%

at 100K pay 50%
....
at 150K pay 65%

and so forth...

This may seem like a lot of taxes, but everyone would be able to walk into a hospital and get care and pay nothing....same for dental

also, no one pays anything for public education or daycare. No need to worry about money if you cannot find work.....that taxation would pay for minimum income for all citizens who are not working.

No homeless except the inevitable crazies who have schizophrenia etc,

Don't think it is possible? It is already happening in the social democracies of Europe. Try reading these URLs:


http://www.american-pictures.com/english/racism/articles/welfare.htm

The above URL tells the story of how the Danes have fought time and time again for their welfare state. And it tells you what a welfare state is and should be.

I highly recommend it!

Also, here are some other links of similar nature:


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Economics/AmericanProsperityMyth.html

http://www.geocities.com/kew1788/SocialDemocracy.htm
http://www.geocities.com/kew1788/TakeBackNation.htm

http://maxspeak.org/gm/archives/00000791.html

http://geocities.com/aufheben2/stc_intro

http://faculty.insead.fr/fatas/econ/Articles/Chasing%20the%20Leader.htm

http://post.economics.harvard.edu/hier/2001papers/HIER1933.pdf

http://www.mylinuxisp.com/~cryofan/

A thread discussing this subject can be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=920274

[brainshrub]

29. I want a flat tax

and I am DEFINITELY a Democrat. Proud, true-blue, yellow-dog Democrat with a capital D.

Muddleoftheroad can speak for me on this issue...I agree 100% with his points.

[Pobeka]

13. I voted for flat tax because it is more progressive than we currently have

-- assuming of course, we can eliminate the loopholes. This is all a mute discussion if loopholes are still there for the rich and wealthy to exploit.

[TahitiNut]

15. I'll support a "flat tax" ...

... when there's a "flat income." :silly:

[brainshrub]

30. What do you mean by that?

I know you are kidding...but what is a flat income?

From my perspective, that's kinda like being against a Progressive Tax until everyone is paid progressively.

[Trajan]

16. What does Adam Smith think about Progressive Taxation ??? ...

"The subjects of every state ought to contribute toward the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state ....{As Henry Home (Lord Kames) has written, a goal of taxation should be to} 'remedy inequality of riches as much as possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich.'"
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

[Redleg]

28. Yes, another Smith sentiment the conservatives conveniently ignore.

Although the quote doesn't suggest a progressive tax rate per se it does imply wealthy ought to pay higher taxes than the rest of us.

[RaRa]

32. I guess I agree with Smith

I've always felt that taxes are about "hurting" and everyone should "feel the hurt" equally. My brother who makes about $800K should pay more than us (not even making $100K). Ten or twenty percent of his income isn't going to affect what he eats every day. Does for me.

[Lone_Wolf]

17. Yes! Income tax should definately be progressive...

Why?

Our current tax system steals from the poor and middle class and gives to the rich. The people who are top income earners usually benefit disproportionately from government spending. For example, people like Cheney, when he was a former CEO of Halliburton, probably benefited more from government spending than 10,000 needy families 'benefited' while on TANF.

I truly think people would be sickened to know how much public money is used to subsidize U.S. corporations (and to line the pockets of the pigs that control them). Thus corporate costs are socialized by as while their profits are privatized by a few.

Furthermore, I think it should include a top rate of 90%!

[mmonk]

21. I'm for a progressive income tax

but if it becomes 90%, I'm moving.

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. Bad wording.

How about: "I believe that economic reality and necessity dictate that progressive taxation is the only sensible option"? Better than arguing on philosophical grounds (nice, but not practical justification for supporting progressive taxation).

[evil_orange_cat]

33. Kennedy tax code was good :)

73% top marginal.... wonderful... :D