Who's hearing the names Sam Nunn and Evan Bayh as possible VP's?

[blm]

Too centrist for me, but I know that many people here don't have that same problem trusting core centrists as much as I do.

[thebigidea]

1. ewww, Evan Bayh

what a creep. He was insufferable on the talking heads shows all throughout 2002, bleating the Bush tune every step of the way.

[David Zephyr]

2. Sam Nunn and Evan Bayh Couldn't Even Deliver Their Own States

Nunn and Bayh: The two men in America that can actually make Joe Lieberman look like a real Democrat.

[Granite]

25. What Dem could deliver Indiana?

The last Dem to carry Indiana was LBJ. My vote for Gore was essentially wasted in 2000, because Indiana was wrapped in red before I could even pull my lever (or blacken my circle, or whatever). Bayh is too conservative for me, but he's the kind of Democrat that appeals to Hoosier state voters. That said, I'm not sure what the Dems gain in having him on the ticket - Indiana isn't going Blue in '04 with or without Bayh sharing the Democratic ticket.

[Nlighten1]

34. Jesus Christ couldn't deliver Indiana for the Dems

I don't like Evan though...too tied to corporate interests.

[Bombtrack]

3. I've heard Bayh as a possibility for Kerry

and a midwest/west strategy probably would be alot smarter than an attempt to win any southern states other than Florida for him.

thing is, you can't discuss possible veeps without linking each one to individual candidates. It's not a universal process.

Clarks best bet would be Graham, and then Edwards
Kerry's would also be Graham, but not Edwards, but possibly Bayh
Edwards would probably be Clark, etc

[blm]

6. No. I haven't heard Bayh in connection with Kerry, at all.

If Kerry got the nom then he would certainly choose Edwards or Clark, or even Spitzer, imo.

[Bombtrack]

21. those would all be bad choices for Kerry

i need to avoid alot of the vernacular and intracasies of the world of public policy analysis and political science so it can be hard for me to explain things with out me typing for 3 hours but I'll attempt to simplify as best I can

It wouldn't make sense for Kerry to chose Clark because, mainly it would be a pander ticket. People basically understand that the dem party has a security-gap with the republicans, and a military guy at the top of the ticket would be acceptable, as well as one at the bottom would help numb the lack of those credentials for the guy at the top. But a Nam hero/Nam hero ticket would work against itself, and be cause for ridicule, the party trying to overcompensate etc.


It wouldn't make sense for Kerry to chose Spitzer, firstly because it would be Massachusetts/NY ticket, and that's just a silly prospect, I don't think I need to elaborate. Besides, Spitzer needs to run for governor anyway. 4 of our 5 largest states are controlled by the GOP and that needs to change.

See my Edwards explanation below in the other post

[bearfartinthewoods]

7. why not Kerry Edwards?

i was thinking that two senators wouldn't work but you seem to think
that's not an issue if you favor Graham? Edwards has such a strong 'every guy' image and a strong economic platform i would think he'd be perfect for Kerry. plus with his positive message, Kerry could play bad cop and Edwards good cop.

[JohnKleeb]

10. personally I wouldnt mind that ticket

I still support Kucinich mind you but I do like that ticket.

[Bombtrack]

18. because it wouldn't work at all

VP's reflect on the person at the top of the ticket mostly in 3 ways

Ideology
demography
geography

to start with the last one first. Edwards base of geographic relatability, probably one of his strongest features(at the top of the ticket at least) is in places like NC, GA, an TN. Kerry would never come close to winning those states and an attempt would be foolish. Edwards also has a strong rural appeal, but not so much that he could make up for someone with such a lack of one at the top, from the bottom of the ticket.

And lastly, they are both 2 rich white guys named John, with very similar politics.

[MGKrebs]

4. Me and the spouse have talked about Nunn.

He would be good for THIS election, but doesn't do much good setting us up for down the road.

Similar to Bob Graham, it would be great if Nunn were to accept one term only, and then leave the door open for Hillary or Edwards (or any number of others) in '08, thereby setting up THAT VP for '12.

[JohnKleeb]

5. Ive heard those names mentioned

:scared: I hope not blm, those arent appetizing VPs for me at all.

[Saudade]

8. Evan Bayh

This guy is an embarrassment, a genuine nitwit.

[jonnyblitz]

39. i agree

don't know why he is even a DEM.

[bearfartinthewoods]

9. only from tweety...................

[pmbryant]

11. They both sound good to me

The key for choosing a VP should not be ideology, but electoral politics. If Nunn or Bayh help the eventual nominee to be more competitive in otherwise sure-GOP states like Georgia or Indiana, their choice will be well worth it.

Personally, I think Bob Graham would be a better choice, though. :-)

--Peter

[PissedOffPollyana]

12. Oh goody... enablers...

that sounds ... well... puke-inducing.

[earthside]

13. I Know Dean's VP

:think:

You heard it here first ....

If Howard Dean is the Democratic nominee ...

His vice presidential candidate pick will be ...

US Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana.


More at www.earthside.com

[newyawker99]

37. Hi earthside!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mlawson]

14. Nunn is (was) a homophobe!!!!

He was the asshole who pushed Bill Clinton to abandon his earlier policy to allow gays to stay in the military.

HIM we do NOT need!!!

[blm]

16. I know. That bothered me, too.

Kerry was spearheading the move to allow gays to serve openly and Clark, even, came out and backed Kerry up. Too bad. What an opportunity.

I just think it's going to be interesting watching people who usually have no love for centrists applaud either choice as a "pragmatic" one.

[JohnKleeb]

19. Whos your ideal VP for Kerry?

:hi: Been wondering

[blm]

23. Ideal....

Kucinich. But, I also like Marcy Kaptur and Julian Bond.

[JohnKleeb]

26. thanks

I wouldnt mind that too. Kaptur from what I read is another fine representive from Ohio, I would dig that. Bond, Ive seen him on civil rights documentaries, seems like a great guy with a lot of knowledge.

[comradebillyboy]

15. why should either be a leading candidate for vp?

nunn is old news and evan will not do anything for the dem base. need a vp that will get dems excited.

[cosmicdot]

17. Sam Nunn is a key corporatist - I wish we'd run the other direction

sits front and center of US's most powerful corporate boards which interlock with other powerful corporate boards - they rule, they make decisions which affect our lives ......

but, he did play the role of the US Prez in the Dark Winter exercise

- sits on board of trustees of Carnegie Corporation of New York

- international advisory board to Barrick Gold

- Board of ChevronTexaco Corporation, The Coca-Cola Company, Dell Computer Corporation, Internet Security Systems, Inc., and Scientific-Atlanta, Inc.

http://www.theyrule.net

Evan Bayh ... no thank you

[David Zephyr]

24. I'm Running With You, Cosmicdot!

Amen. And Amen.

[mot78]

20. NO!

They'll divide us more than unite us! Bayh is chairman of the DLC.

[dsc]

22. Of course no link

Why am I not surprised. I would ask you for one but heck I know better by now. But see, I remember what I read and you didn't count on that. If you look at the P and C forum and find this thread, you will see where it came from. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=101286

It came from Robert Novaks column. Here is a direct link. http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak14.html


and here is his actual text

Influential Democrats in Washington and in the South are privately talking about former Sen. Sam Nunn of Georgia as vice presidential nominee in 2004 no matter who is picked for president.

Nunn, who served 24 years in the Senate ending in 1997, is seen by the increasingly small number of white southern Democrats in Congress as a conservative ballast to any national ticket that might coax Southerners back to their ancestral party.

In addition, Nunn is viewed by his supporters as a Democratic version of Dick Cheney. He is an older hand (now 65 years old) with no presidential ambitions who has strong national security credentials (as Senate Armed Services Committee chairman).


end of quote

Note what isn't mentioned here (Dean) and that he is mentioned as possible for every candidate. That poster told a story she liked. Maybe we should wonder why she pretended this came from someone other than Novak. I will leave it to the reader to imagine why.

[dsc]

27. kick

Inquiring minds want to know.

[dsc]

28. kick

yet another kick. I want some sort of answer here.

[blm]

31. Nope. You're wrong.

I didn't mention any candidate, so how was I telling a story?

And please stop getting so personal with me in an effort to overanalyze a legitimate question. It's getting creepy.

[dsc]

32. Oh please

We just so happen to have a thread in P and C siting Novak with Nunn as VP. This has never come up before. Then, on the very same day, without a link, you post this. Now, if you provide a link for another source then that would be one thing. But your record speaks for itself. You habitually post anti Dean posts and rarely provide links when asked. Frankly, barring some link it is utterly impossible for me to believe this didn't come from Novak.

[blm]

33. That's not true.

You just keep asking for the same links over and over again. When I merely reference an incident that everyone should be familiar with you dump on me if there is no link. You rarely do it to other posters. Please stop targetting me unfairly.

[dsc]

35. Oh really

Let's run through a list. I asked for a link where Dean endorsed Jeffords. Failing that I asked for the race. Even after posting a seperate thread for that not one person came forward with said link. Not you or anyone else.

I asked for a link to back up your contention that Gary Hart said "Dean was unfit to be President" we all know what happened then.

I asked for a link here. Now, if this is so wide spread why is this the first thread on this in GD. BTW I searched GD for the last 6 months using Sam Nunn. Three, count them three, threads came up. One was yours, one was the Dean foreign policy speech, and one was the thread about Clark sitting on boards. I admit the archives are down but this was presumedly over the last few weeks. Only your thread mentions him as a possible VP. So tell me again how we should know this.

[blm]

38. I said that Gary Hart didn't think Dean could handle foreign policy.

And I posted the article many times.

I said I heard the names Nunn and Bayh...big deal...so many threads here are started by people who hear things. You want to rule this forum like LBN?

Back off. I didn't mention any candidate name. You are the one who is out of line, here.

on edit: Here...for the twentieth time:

>>>>>>>
While resisting a request to handicap the remaining contenders for the White House, the former Colorado senator offered these observations about some still in the field:

>>>>
Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, lacks crucial defense or foreign policy experience.
Joe Lieberman, U.S. senator and former vice presidential candidate, is making a futile appeal to the "amorphous middle" by parroting Bush policies.
>>>>>
Dean, the former Vermont governor, is so inexperienced on defense and foreign relations that before his first trip to Israel in January, he called Hart and said, "Gary, what do I do?" Hart said.
>>>>
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E64%257E1373786,00.html

Article archived...you would have to purchase.

btw...Hart endorsed Kerry as the most qualified candidate. The author of the Hart-Rudman report endorsed Kerry.

[dsc]

45. No you didn't

and when the archives come up I will prove it. You said what I said you said, and when I asked for a link with what you said in quotes you purported to have posted it before. Only after someone found it did you change your tune.

[blm]

47. I was condensing at the time...paraphrasing...

something everyone is allowed to do here apparently except you decided I cannot. The exact quotes were located and the point in the article that Hart doesn't think Dean can handle foreign policy is still valid. You disproved nothing and in fact, just proved that you have no tolerance for paraphrasing, if the paraphrase comes from someone who doesn't trust your candidate.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Sam Nunn is a HOMOPHOBE, and Evan Bayh is a Hoosier Zell Miller

They are both pukes!

With so many qualified Democrats, why do we have to reach down into the muck for names?

[AntiCoup2K4]

30. No thanks. I'd prefer some actual Democrats!

They're too right of center for VP. Nunn might make a decent defense secretary if he hadn't have fucked up the whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing.

[RainDog]

36. Evan Bayh? good way to turn away voters

before they even get to the polls...

I say that, even though, or because he is (supposedly) my representative.

when will the dem leadership wake up to the FACT that people are apathetic because the dems offer warmed over b.s. and claim it's soul food???

why are they so lazy that they can't go after registering more citizens of this country, rather than continually pandering to the same 30-ish percent who now vote, and especially those in the southern states (who, if they are fundies, would not vote for a dem till hell freezes over, for the most part.)

Nunn is also a conservative, but he has some foreign policy chops. nevertheless, I will really, really hate the dems if they make this next election a situation in which I have to hold my nose and vote against the Bush bastard.

[blm]

40. I don't think Dem leadership picks the VP.

Some campaign people may just be floating names out there to see what the reaction to them on the ground might be.

[mitchtv]

41. why not Z Miller?

who needs a Democrat? I habitually post "I am a loyal Democrat etc etc" But Sam Nunn? sorry I would bolt at that one .

[adadem]

42. I like

Harold Ford, Jr of Tennessee.

[tlb]

43. I heard it as a remedy to Dean's lack fo "gravitas".

I can't really see why Nunn particulalry or Byah either would want to get into this though. Then see themsleves trashed like Lieberman was for the inadequacy of the top of the ticket after the crash and burn.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. Sam Nunn? No thanks!

I remember him as one of Ronald Reagan's prime enablers, one of those hawkish Dems who loved the Contras and the right-wing Central American dictatorships and always thought the Pentagon needed more money and everything else needed less.

Evan Bayh? Uh....no way.

Gee, why don't we just ask a Republican to be on the ticket?

[dusty64]

46. WAY too rethug-lite

for me also. Nunn has been out of the scene so long who remembers him anyways. How old is he now? Bayh is not exactly anyones favorite and the last thing we need to do now strategywise is to take another Dem from a red state.