Strom Thurmond--Senator and Rapist?

[cryofan]

From this article, http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/local/7493857.html it ooks like his interracial romance that sired his daughter occured when he was 22, and she (the family maid) was 16. Anyone know what the minimum age of consent was in South Carolina 70 years ago?

[Zuni]

1. I do not know

but that sure seems to be unethical at the least.

[papau]

6. Thurmond,, Reagan, Bush43 all rapist - but only Thurmond was not a

private racist.

And Reagan's rape of Seleena was so long ago and only got into Kitty's book and a People mag interview with the lady raped, so it does not count.

And Bush's statutory rape has a 15 year old victim who really liked the fact that Bush arranged for and paid for the abortion - and Bush's daddy got her a husband, so she will not talk (although her friends will).

So why is everyone picking on Strom?

[Beaker]

11. Strom's is the only one that's provable...

without hard evidence and a willing to talk "victim", Raygun and smirk are nothing more than conjecture.

[LeahMira]

28. Time will tell...

Raygun and smirk are nothing more than conjecture.

Who would have imagined that Strom Thurmond would have mixed it up with a black woman?

Anyhow, Reagan and Smirk are not dead yet. The business about Thurmond didn't come out until after his death. Plus, it was not the lady involved but her daughter who eventually has spoken out. Unfortunately, these days, when the ladies involved speak out they tend to be labeled as gold-diggers or patsys for the political rivals. Who needs that?

[Frances]

2. In the 50s guys in the military talked about

statuatory rape. That meant that sex with someone under 18 was considered rape whether it was consenual or not.

But I don't think it would have been possible to get a rape conviction when a white man had sex with an African American female in South Carolina 70 years ago.

[Exultant Democracy]

3. I'm sure it was probably around 14

The age of consent in CT is 15 even today with parental permission. Was what he did shady? Well yeah, but it probably was not against the law because of age. If anything it might have been against the law because she was black and he was white.

[amazona]

50. it is now 14

I just googled it. I bet it was even younger in the 1920s.

[RBHam]

4. Ol' Strom was gettin' some chocolate lovin'?

Did the poor girl have a choice? To either say "no" in the first place, or to say "no" to the payoff?

Tsk Tsk. Taking advantage of a young, emotionally immature girl with such callousness.

What an asshole.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. "Strom's love-child is black"

Now imagine if we could have had that headline back in the 90s when he was attacking Clinton.

[papau]

7. Define "black" - Why is white plus black = black? why is she a color?

Race has no real meaning - so we are into skin color and home town and relatives.

Given that Stom's daughter acknowledges her as sister, the "white" relatives get to claim her as "white" - or do they?

Man, being a racist is complicated.

But I agree - a 90's headline "Strom's love-child is black" would have shaken the GOP a bit - esp. those "value's" types - but it would not have affected the media since they whore for right wing money - and would have not spent much time on the topic as they raced back to sniff Clinton's penis.

[Isome]

8. - Why is white plus black = black? why is she a color?"

Because if you're not a blue-eyed blonde with white skin, white people don't consider you one of their own. That's just the way it is. Always has been, showa NO signs of changing.

Why do you think Halle Berry's white mother told her (and Halle agrees) that she's a Black woman despite her multi-racial makeup. Why do you think in her winning the Oscar was hailed as a FIRST for Black women in America? No one challenged that... no one!! Because that's the way America is. Should it be that way? Who cares, it is and it isn't changing.

Essie mother's frame of reference at the time was one where her refusal of his advances would have cost her her job at a minimum, and most probably would have led to repeated and tortuous rape. My own mother has stories from the 40's of having to have her brothers walk her through the kitchen area of the hotel she worked in and all the way home from downtown PA to thwart the unwanted advances of white men who felt ENTITLED to pick and choose the Black women they saw unescorted, because they could often act with impunity.

That rat bastard followed the code of the day by paying for her college education and so did all of those who knew about it during that time and in later years. That doesn't change his political machinations that were oppositional to the positive evolution of this society. He gets no credit for that! Whoever tries to mitigate the horrific circumstances of that era (by querying the age of consent and crediting him for paying her way through college) that produced scores of 'Essies' (see the college she attended and the multi-racial background of most of them) is being an apologist for the babarity of the larger community. Nothing excuses the sum total of his actions in this life. Nothing!!

[Beaker]

17. exactly why this woman should be held in contempt...

for her silence. she allowed strom to continue to cause social harm to her race and her gender.

[beaconess]

21. Anyone who understands the complex history of race, racism, and classism

in America would never make such an insensitive remark.

Unless you grew up black and illegitimate in the South in the 20s, 30s, 40s and lived as a black person through the 50s, 60s and beyond, and walked a mile in this woman's shoes, you really aren't in a position to attack Ms. Williams for not publicly calling out one of the most powerful politicians in the country about an issue of such intense sensitivity in this country during that time.

Maybe instead of criticizing her, you might direct your disdain to the numerous powerful white folks who also knew about this situation and helped Strom cover it up. Ms. Williams was certainly in no position to go up against Ol' Strom and, even if she had done so, she could never have stopped him from causing the harm he did. She just would have been crushed - and likely would not have managed to outlive him to tell the tale.

[mbali]

35. You've GOT to be kidding

No . . . I guess now.

How sad.

48. you're kidding, right?

Sometimes personal issues outweigh social issues. You can only be concerned about the larger picture once you are straight on your own self.... even if the larger picture affects your personal picture.
Held in contempt is way too harsh unless you know the personal circumstances of this woman & even then it's awfully harsh.

[amazona]

52. whoa i can't agree

I don't think we can obligate someone to go out in the world and announce that they are Strom Thurmond's daughter! I would not have cared to do that myself!

Besides, we are talking about her dad. There has to be complex emotions there. Do you want to make your life about taking down your dad?

I think it's perfectly reasonable that she waited until he was gone and the family had time to mourn before she came forward to correct the record. We can't ask everyone to be a superhero.

[Edwards4President]

87. You're right!

That must be why civil rights leaders have been falling all over themselves denouncing her as a traitor to their cause ever since the news was first confirmed.

They haven't?

Well, they should, don't you think, given that "this woman should be held in contempt" for causing "social harm to her race and gender?" Certainly, the people who have been in the front lines of the fight for civil rights must be outraged by the damage "this woman" has done to the cause they have devoted their lives to.

Why is it then that not a single one, not a single one , has said anything against Essie Mae Washington Williams for keeping silent all these years. Why aren't they as outraged as you? Are they hypocrites, too? Should they be condemned along with Essie Mae? After all, you seem to have no doubt that "this woman" should be harshly criticized for not exposing Thurmond when he was alive and for "besmirching" his reputation now that he can't defend himself. I can't imagine why civil rights leaders (or even just some regular, run of the mill black people) aren't up in arms about the evil Essie Mae.

Damn those civil rights leaders and the other clueless hypocritical black people who don't have anything close to the understanding about this situation that you have! If only they got with the program and exposed "this woman" as the miserable coward she is.

Thank God you've stepped in to fulfill the duty so woefully neglected by the civil rights community and are giving this terrible woman the proper flogging she deserves.

[mbali]

78. Actually, the appropriate headline would be

"Strom Thurmond has a child out of wedlock."

I remember back in 1992 when Republicans started a whispering campaign about Bill Clinton, claiming he had "fathered a black child out of wedlock." I wondered what was the point they were trying to make - that Bill Clinton had fathered an illegitimate child or that he had "besmirched" himself by having sex with a black woman. It didn't take long for me to figure out the answer.

[Catherine Vincent]

85. "It didn't take long for me to figure out the answer."

Word!

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. All about Strom

http://stromwatch.com

FUCK BUSH Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[Beaker]

10. This whole thing REALLY pisses me off...

why did the woman let Strom live with his lies? The scumbag probably became her father by raping her mother, and she lets him live the life of a "respected" U.S. Senator, speaking up only after he's dead and gone...why couldn't she have spoken up 5 or 6 U.S. Senate terms earlier??? after all, she's 78.
This really royally pisses me OFF!!

[beaconess]

13. If you have to ask the question

you'll probably never understand the answer.

[Beaker]

16. why now, then?

If she could stay silent for 78 years about the circumstances of her conception, why would she speak out now that he's dead?
after all- she wasn't the one who was raped.
why would she let Strom continue to spew his hate towards those of her and her mother's race...where was her self-respect?
During the Clinton Impeachment hearings might have been a good time/place to go public.

She let Strom win-
plain and simple.

The woman disgusts me, and is a shame to her race and her gender.

[Karenina]

20. Do we have another example here

of a white person defining the terms of racism?

"The woman disgusts me, and is a shame to her race and her gender."

This is the MOST offensive, ignorant, supercilious post I have read on this subject. I, for one, would not ever second-guess the personal decision of someone in such a complicated situation. These issues are NEVER "black and white."

[Beaker]

23. oh well.

It's my opinion, and I stand by it.
the woman disgusts me, and by her inaction, Strom was allowed to carry on with his hate-filled rhetoric thru a very long Senate career, and even a run for the white house on a platform with one defining goal/concept: Segregation.

I honestly don't understand how this woman can look at herself in the mirror.

[beaconess]

26. What makes you think

that if this woman had spoken up, Thurmond would have been stopped in his tracks?

If you truly believe this, you obviously don't know a thing about our history.

I'll let you in on a little secret. This was never any big secret. It was common knowledge throughout South Carolina that Strom Thurmond had an illegitimate black daughter. It has been discussed for years, particularly in the black community. Although Thurmond always denied it, he never took great pains to cover it up. One of the reasons is that, while it may have come as a shock to you and to anyone else ignorant of the South's complicated racial history, in reality, this was a very common occurrence.

Ms. Williams could have tried to come out on Thurmond, but it wouldn't have done a damned bit of good. He would have publicly denied it, everyone around him would have denied it. Ms. Williams' life would have been ruined - not because she had harmed a powerful politician (since this would have in no way ruined him), but for upsetting the delicate balance of unspoken relationships that have always existed in the South.

Sure, you can argue that she should have stood up to that, that she somehow owed it to "her race and gender" to make such a sacrifice. But that's bullshit. You could make the same argument about every black person who silently endured humiliation, degradation, and discrimination in the South (or anywhere else) during this time. Oh, sure, those black kids who were herded into inferior, segregated schools should have rebelled and rioted if necessary, if only to make a point. Those black folks who let themselves get lynched should have fought back - shame on them for not standing up for themselves. Those black women who let themselves be raped by their white employers owed it to the rest of us to just say no.

Yes, you can argue all of those things. But such arguments only make you appear clueless and insensitive.

Unlike you, I would never attack anyone for refusing to put their ass on the line to fight a fight that I have never had to face in my own life. I take my hat of to this woman for enduring what she endured and for speaking up when she did. She deserves much more praise and respect than people who offer us lectures and judgments about choices and lives they clearly know nothing about.

I understand how she can look at herself in the mirror. I wonder, though, how you can.

[Beaker]

30. the time for this woman to speak up was when the man was alive.

if she didn't have the guts and fortitude to come forward then, she should have had the decency, respect and class to let it rest after he had died, and couldn't give his side of the story.

[amazing grace]

31. Apparently, his family disagrees with you

They sure wasted no time in acknowledging the truth.

How proud you must be that Strom Thurmond's family is exhibiting more grace than you are.

[Beaker]

32. If they knew, why didn't they speak up when he was alive?

instead of living with the hypocricy and the lie?
yeah, they sure showed a lot of "grace" over the past 62-some years...:eyes:

They are just as reprehensible as she is and he was.

51. however much of a scum Strom may have been

he was her father. Get it? Her father.
That's why she didn't speak up. Get it? Her father.

Blood creates strange conflicts and behaviors.

[Karenina]

56. Blood creates strange conflicts and behaviors.

The story of my life. I do so appreciate your sensitivity.

[Beaker]

61. maybe you're right...

if I was the product of a RAPE, I suppose I couldn't help but have love for the man that RAPED MY MOTHER, and then spent a lifetime publicly denying me and denigrating my race...
yeah...I suppose I can see your point of view.

[Karenina]

68. You're really getting disgusting now.

.

[Beaker]

73. you're welcome to your opinion.

please allow me mine.

and i find your "white supremecist" accusation to be particularly ignorant and disgusting as well.

funny how you weren't able to back it up when I called you on it, huh...?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SemperEadem]

70. I"m curious

in your world of everyone getting justice and no wrong going unavenged, what exactly would you have had the woman do--being that this time period in which you are whimsically fantasizing about female power and women's automony is from the 1930's onward.

Who, exactly, should she have approached to take her case?

What sheriff, exactly, could be entrusted to make sure that her rights were protected under the law so that she would get justice?

What jury (of all white men) was going to see to it that a 22 yr old grown white man sexually molesting at least and raping at most a 16 yr old black domestic worker was going to be punished?

Because in the reality of the universe we all live in, she had no chance if she went up against him. She would have been portrayed as crazy, unbalanced and either locked up in jail or lynched.

In your parallel universe, probably she would have received the justice she was due, but that's only accessable by your mind. In the circumstances in which she found herself, she did the best that she thought she could do at that time.

Your judgement of her worthiness to her race is unimportant, as your definition does not hold sway.

[Beaker]

82. case?...sheriff?? when did I ever say or imply that charges be filed?

I never said anything about a criminal case, did I?

There have been plenty of instances over the past 5 decades where she could have spoken up to silence strom hateful rhetoric by exposing him officially for the hypocrite that he was.

[amazing grace]

27. Nicely said n/t

[beaconess]

22. I am very proud of this woman

It's judgmental attitudes like yours that are disgusting.

I doubt that you know anything about this woman or her life or why she made the choices she made. Do you know what it was like for black folks in the South in which she grew up? Do you have any idea how many other black people - thousands and thousands - found themselves in similar situations and knew that they had to keep their mouths shut or risk degradation, harrassment, and even death? Do you have any experience living in an environment in which refusing to call a white man "sir" could result in being lynched? Are you even remotely acquainted with anyone who had to face the choices this woman had to face?

If you had even an inkling of knowledge about this, you would better understand why a black woman would choose to keep silent and, in the view of many people, maintain her dignity even into an era where exposing one's innermost personal issues to the public is not only par for the course, but now fully expected.

It's easy for some people, looking back from the comfort of a changed society, to attack Ms. Williams for choosing not to turn her life into a futile crusade against Strom Thurmond. But you are in no position to judge her.

Shame.

[Beaker]

24. I stand by my opinion.

the woman has been in no danger of being "lynched" for at least the past several decades...her silence is tatntamount to support for Strom's campaign of segregation and hate-filled rhetoric.
The woman is a coward.

[SemperEadem]

74. Exactly how do you know this? Can you see into the minds of

people? You can predict anytime, anywhere, what any person is going to do?

Folk also believed lynching was dead before James Byrd was dragged to his death about 5 years ago, too. So, I do believe she had good reason to consider her own survival more than your immature fantasy about her raising her standard and mounting a crusade against Thurmond.

Now is the best time to speak out-- you can't slander the dead.

[Kanary]

65. How many women have you supported through rape charges?

Have you gone out of your way to give women what they need in order to bring about justice?

If not, I suggest you do a bit of soul-searching in terms of your judgemental ways.

Kanary

[Beaker]

66. I'm not exacly sure of what you're trying to say???

the woman of whom i'm being "judgemental" wasn't raped- so what is the connection that you're trying to make?

[LoneStarDem]

19. Well

Well, it could have been because he was her father, they had a good relationship even if it wasn't public, and she didn't want to make political hay out of her family's history. I get the feeling that she felt his racist past was more one of political expediency than of deep seated beliefs. I think she felt he was a good man and had financially supported her over the years. Who knows, this was family biddness, and political implications aside, I find it hard to criticize a 78 y.o. woman for doing what she thinks is right.

[Beaker]

25. then why go public at all?

if she felt comfortable keeping the secret for 78 years, why does she choose to besmirch the man after his death, when he can't defend himself?
that's pretty low.

[Karenina]

29. BINGO!

We have a "winner" here folks!

"...why does she choose to besmirch the man after his death, when he can't defend himself?"

Ah, he needs to "defend himself" against a woman who may be "besmirching" his lily-white character, eh? I think this post reveals to anyone reading it everything they need to know about its author.
:eyes:

[Very Good Dem]

33. Poor, poor Strom

To have a lifetime of achievement "besmirched" by this horrid 78-year-old woman.

Keeping quiet and not publicly humiliating her father (who just happened to be one of the most powerful and ruthless politicians around) sure set back the cause of civil rights for the rest of us. If only she had said something before now, the world would be an entirely different place.

What an awful, awful, awful woman to do this after poor old dead Strom can no longer defend himself.

It's really comforting, though, that Strom has people like you to stand up and fight for his rights and reputation by trashing the evil Essie Mae, who has done so much damage to the cause.

As a black woman, I thank you for your concern.

[Karenina]

34. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Classic! :toast:

[Beaker]

36. you missed the point by about a mile or so...

in the post I was responding to, the poster said:

"I think she felt he was a good man..."

read my response again with that in mind.

[LoneStarDem]

37. The reason

I've read a couple of articles about this where they interviewed her, and her stated reason was that had nothing to do with politics or advancing a cause in either direction. She said she was urged to go public by her children so that her family could finally come to terms with its roots and so that they could know their history.

[Karenina]

38. The depth of understanding

displayed here is breathtaking in its brazen assumptions. Erraaa...
YOU may think he was a creep, I might agree with you, but he was her FATHER and NEITHER of us has a right to judge their relationship.

[Beaker]

40. SHE was the one who put the relationship up for public scrutiny-

not me.
but I do have an opinion,and reasons for that opinion. I think that if it's something she wanted to go public with, the time for it is long past. He may have sired her, but he was no "father"...and he should have been made to publicly face and address his hypocricy on the segregation issue that he championed so proudly while denying his own offspring.
Does anyone think for one minute that Strom was "in love" with the 16 year-old maid who was her mother? He probably viewed her as less-than-human, and just something to use when you weren't satisfied with just jerking off...that was the attitude on the plantation, and the mindset that the prick was raised in, and he died a happy and satisfied man.
God Bless America

[Very Good Dem]

44. I guess you would know . . .

Too bad Ms. Williams, at the tender age of 78, doesn't have the level and depth of insight into her personal life, relationships and motivations that you have managed to gain in the last 48 hours.

[Beaker]

64. I see...I'm not allowed to judge her, but you can judge me...

that makes sense.

[Karenina]

49. We All wan' thank ya

fo makin' everthin so cleah ta us, this mawnin' y'all.
You have every right to your opinion and the option to express it on this board. Be aware that they reveal a VERY UGLY character and mentality. Who are YOU to declare a "statute of limitations?" Who are YOU to judge their obviously complicated relationship? Who are YOU to pass judgement? Are YOU privy to any of the conversations that may have occured between them? Jackass or not, he was her FATHER. Does it matter if he "loved" her mother? Do YOU know that he didn't? Do YOU know he died a happy and satisfied man?

G_d bless your particular manifestation of "American" arrogance. NOT!

[Beaker]

59. "statute of limitations"???

you've obviously confused me with someone else...I never "declared" a "statute of limitations"???? :shrug:

[Karenina]

69. Oh?

"if she didn't have the guts and fortitude to come forward then, she should have had the decency, respect and class to let it rest after he had died"

[Beaker]

71. yes...

where do you see or get "statute of limitations" out of that?

when you assume...

[Very Good Dem]

39. No one missed your point

"she allowed strom to continue to cause social harm to her race and her gender."

"The woman disgusts me, and is a shame to her race and her gender"

"the woman disgusts me"

"I honestly don't understand how this woman can look at herself in the mirror."

"if she didn't have the guts and fortitude to come forward then, she should have had the decency, respect and class to let it rest after he had died"

"her silence is tatntamount to support for Strom's campaign of segregation and hate-filled rhetoric."

"The woman is a coward."

No - we haven't missed your point. You've been clear as a bell.

[Karenina]

41. DING-DONG!!!

:think:

[Beaker]

42. Good.

I'm glad there was no misunderstanding.

[Isome]

43. Explain how you "birsmirch" someone by

telling the truth? How does that work exactly. He doesn't have to "defend" himself, DNA will do it for him.

[Very Good Dem]

46. Dupe - sorry

[Very Good Dem]

47. Depends on where you're coming from

To some people, being linked by blood (not to mention at the loins) to a black person is the very definition of "besmirchment."

Having such information come to light after one cannot "defend" himself could certainly cause folks who think that way to go absolutely ballistic, don't you think?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

55. I agree

I got so angry I posted a reply before I got further down the page and saw that others had already said what I thought without it seeming to do any good.

[Beaker]

58. please explain.

If you're going to call me a rascist and a white supremecist, I'd like you to point out what I said that had any rascist intent on my part. I'm no fan of strom's, I think I've made that VERY clear. But I also despise this woman that allowed him to get off scot free with his lifetime hypocricy.
so- please explain your statement.

[Isome]

62. Your post wasn't directed towards me... BUT...

Please allow me to explain what I see...

You specifically refer to her decision to confirm her lineage as birsmirching his reputation. The woman has led an ordinary life, no criminal record, college educated, a teacher, married with grown children. There's nothing about her to be ashamed of... The inference is that because her mother is Black, her very existence would bring shame to a white man.

With regard to her speaking out late, I'm one who faults her for waiting so late. We're in agreement about that. However, I also consider the facts that 1) he was her father and he provided for her over the years and, 2) she wasn't the only one who could confirm his paternity and they chose not to do so. IMO, she is far less guilty of allowing this disgusting era in American history to remain under wraps than others who weren't related to him and didn't live under the threat of being lynched or smeared, and had opportunities to anonymously speak to news outlets. Not everyone is strong enough to stand up, especially when they're standing up against their own father.

Her life has to have been conflicted. W.E.B. DuBois spoke of the duality of our (Africans/Blacks) existence in this country; she didn't have the luxury of a mere dual existence, she had a plural existence. We can't say how we would have reacted, because we're not her.

[Beaker]

63. I've never known the word "besmirch" to have any racial implications.

and I definitely didn't use it within any such context.

[Isome]

92. You've never known it as such, yet you used it as such.

Your failure to respond is response enough. Thanks for identifying yourself.

[Karenina]

75. No fan of Strom's

but DESPISE this woman. :eyes:

[Beaker]

67. "birsmirch"??

huh?

[mbali]

76. Perhaps you should refrain from

commenting on misspellings in others' posts - at least until you go back and correct your own numerous errors.

[Beaker]

80. you're the one that put it in "quotes"-

that generally carries a little more responsibility to get it correct.

try a little harder in the future.

[mbali]

83. Perhaps you should also try harder

to direct your responses to the correct person - especially when you're making snide remarks about content.

[youngred]

12. and dead.....

the man was a pig, a fool, and conservative nut, but he's dead now...so who really cares?

[thebigidea]

14. dead? Strom will NEVER die.

[Leftist78]

15. This is a pretty big thing here.

I just wish I'd known about it when I wrote that article for alternet the day he died. That would've been great. :)

shameless plug for the article :evilgrin: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16277

[FDRrocks]

18. Both

[CalebHayes]

45. LOL - What an A** hole!

[Scott Lee]

54. Rapists don't have a "love child"

I wish to hell the press would stop using bullshit terms like this.

A 20 year old White man and a 16 year old Black housemaid in the SOUTH in the 1920s??

To quote Tina Turner, "What's Love Got To Do With It?"

[Isome]

60. Thanks... n/t

[Cleita]

57. This wasn't the law he broke.

There were laws back then about mixing blood. Blacks and whites were forbidden to marry.

[Fescue4u]

72. What do we do? Dig him up and try him

for an 90 year old crime?

He's dead jim.

Lets worry about the criminals alive and in office.

[Karenina]

79. Really.

I'm guilty of wasting bandwidth here responding to fetid garbage. I get it now and apologize it took me so long. Over and out.

[amazing grace]

81. I'm no fan of Strom Thurmond

in fact, I think he was despicable.

But I have to give him some credit on this one. Anyone who understands the racial climate of the times has to understand why he could not and did not publicly acknowledge his black daughter. But, to his credit, he didn't take the course of which many men in his position availed themselves (and don't be fooled - there were many, many men in his position) - he didn't abandon her, but provided for her through most of her life and seemed to have developed an affectionate and mutually respectful relationship with her.

A relative of mine attended SC State with her in the 1940s and remembers Thurmond - while he was governor, no less - coming to the school to visit her. Everyone knew about it but also believed that this was just not the sort of thing people broadcast around. It was a private family matter as far as they were concerned.

It is generally believed that his interest in her well-being and educational opportunities were largely responsible for his support of funding for HBCUs, something that many of his Southern colleagues opposed. It's also considered to be one of the reasons - along with a shift in the political tide - that Thurmond's views softened over the years.

While Thurmond was horrible in some ways, he was also instrumental - or at least helpful - in the appointment of several fairly liberal black federal judges in the 60s and 70s, including Matt Perry, the first African American federal judge from South Carolina. Strom was no saint and much of his behavior was reprehensible and unforgiveable. History, I believe, will not be kind to him, nor should it be. But this incident can help remind us that life and people are extremely complicated and even the people that we most abhor are very human.

[Karenina]

84. Thank you, Amazing grace

for such a thoughtful, understanding and informative post.

[mbali]

88. Hear, hear. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

86. HOW DO YOU SPELL HYPOCRITE?

R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N

I must say I just read thru all these posts. And I enjoyed the exchange between Beaker and the others.

[ecstatic]

89. I'm sure it was rape in every sense. who would consent to sex w/ a racist?

Or should I say, what black woman would?

[amazing grace]

90. As I think about this incident,

one of the things that strikes me about it - and bear with me here, this might sound weird at first - is the way it demonstrates how racism in American harmed not only black people but damaged and diminished whites as well.

Racism damages everyone it touches and its damage is not limited to its intended targets. Those who inflict it - despite their evil and horrid opinions and actions - are also victims in the long run. I strongly believe that unless and until people realize that racism affects each and every one of us as well, we will never really confront the issue.

Thurmond is a perfect example. Yes, he held reprehensible views, behaved despicably and did great harm to blacks and the country as a whole. But he was also a product of his time and was probably trapped into and driven by a situation that was far larger than he was. Of course, he could have bucked the system, rebelled against its strictures but, like so many other people, he did not behave heroically. He did what most people do - just went along with it and rode the wave.

Who knows the circumstances of Thurmond's relationship with Ms. Williams' mother? Many people assume that Ms. Williams was the product of a rape or something close to it. But it is possible that her parents had what passed for a mutual relationship in 1925 - it was not necessarily a rape or even a coerced situation. I say this based not only on the fact that Ms. Williams' mother seemed to have maintained contact with Thurmond and even arranged for him to meet their daughter, but also on my knowledge of numerous relationships by people in similar situations. For example, a member of my own family was the product of a consensual relationship between a black maid and the son of her white employer in the 1920s. They actually cared for one another, but knew they could never marry or even let anyone know about the relationship. When she became pregnant, his family sent him out of state to avoid scandal. And he ended up just going along with the system, becoming a very prominent member of the white community who benefited greatly by - and even helped exacerbate - the racial climate of the time. Sound familiar? And this sort of thing was not uncommon at all - in fact, it happened quite frequently, it just was never talked about. That's probably one of the reasons the exposure of this incident has been met with a giant shoulder shrug in the black community - most of us are thinking, "so, what else is new?"

Of course, this relationship could have been something entirely different - something more sordid and sad. None of us knows for sure, but we should not immediately discount the possibility that a relationship existed.

Like many white men of privilege during that time, Thurmond certainly knew he could never have a normal relationship with his daughter - for whom he obviously felt some affection and obligation - nor would he likely have even tried. But one doesn't have to be blind to his shortcomings to be somewhat touched by his efforts to be some kind of father to her - helping with her finances, arranging for her education, visiting her in college, staying in touch with her for the rest of his life. And one does not have to be an apologist for Thurmond to feel a little sad for him - after all, not only did he end up living a lie for nearly 80 years - for reasons not all of his own making - but he missed out on a real relationship with a child who would have greatly enriched his life and would likely have made him a better person. What a waste.

Multiply this by the number of people who have missed out on so much in life because of the barriers put up before them - and that they themselves often helped to perpetuate - and we can better understand how racism has infected and pulled down our society in so many ways.

As Bill Clinton said in his beautiful speech commemorating the 35th anniversary of Bloody Sunday, "Just as Dr. King predicted, the rise of black southerners to full citizenship also lifted their white neighbors. 'It is history's wry paradox,' he said, 'that when Negroes win their struggle to be free, those who have held them down will themselves be free for the first time.' . . . My fellow Americans, this day has a special meaning for me, for I, too, am a son of the South, the old, segregated South. And those of you who marched 35 years ago set me free, too, on Bloody Sunday, free to know you, to work with you, to love you, to raise my child to celebrate our differences and hallow our common humanity."

How sad that it has taken so long for America to realize this (if it even has yet). Imagine what our world would be like had the Strom Thurmonds of the world figured this out 80 years ago and had the courage to actually do something about it.

[Isome]

91. Please stop romanticizing bigots!

Yeah, he was a man of his time alright. At the time Black women were seen as nothing more the easy targets for caucasian sexual predators. That's it in a nutshell.

[amazing grace]

93. There's a big difference

between romanticizing and trying to understand the human element of a situation. Nothing in life is simple black and white - there are all sorts of shades of gray in dealing with human beings. That's one of the reasons that issues of race in the South have been so difficult to grapple with.

Understanding how racism affects everyone - white and black - does not romanticize wrongdoers. Understanding the pathology of bigotry and the many ways it has left an undeliable stamp on people of all races does not gloss over the evil done in the name of racial superiority. And while putting things "in a nutshell" may be convenient and more comforting than actually trying to comprehend extremely complex and painful histories, it in no way brings us closer to a better understanding of our history and where it has brought us today.

So, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but please do not mischaracterize my analysis as romanticizing a person I find morally reprehensible.