Hell has just frozen over........

[deminflorida]

This is a true story Du'ers and I need to let everyone know. My Father who is 73, is very upset about the new medicare bill passed by congress. We just finished a converation about politics which I don't normally go into with him because, he is the worst right wing form of Republican from Alabama on the planet, I also don't want to cause him to have a heart attack. He has "The Boy Clinton" proudly displayed as the center piece of his library. He listens to Rush daily and religiously. Most of the time I don't even approach politics with him because it sours my stomach, but he is my father I can't change that. However this morning during our conversation, after discussing Howard Dean's tax policies and my differences concerning that, and the recent early Gore endorsement....he stated that well if I thought that I was upset with my party about that...then we have reached common ground, because if Tom Ridge tries to push his plan legalize illegal aliens than he was going to stay home on election day. When I asked him about Wesley Clark to my amazement, (almost fell out of my chair), my father stated that he would have to give Clark some consideration, because he felt that Clark was strong on defense and he liked the idea that Clark had never been involved in politics, to quote him he said "I'd have to consider him over everyone else even if somebody from the Republicans decided to run against Bush. There has to be a change soon, and as far as I'm concerned the ones that have been in Washington, they're all crooks."

The bottom line, for my father the biggest Freeper on the planet to even consider a democrat....well like the title states:

HELL HAS FROZEN OVER THIS MORNING

[eileen_d]

1. Bring on the ice!

What a great story. :bounce:

[Loonman]

2. Nikita Kruschev quote

"all politicians are the same. They want to sell you bridges even if there are no rivers"

[retyred]

3. "The Boy Clinton"

proudly displayed as the center piece of his library.?

Meaning what exactly?



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[Catherine Vincent]

8. Yeah, what is that... a book?

[deminflorida]

10. It's probably the biggest right wing slam of Clinton ever....

complete and total conspriacy....horrible, I read about 5 pages and almost threw up.

[Solomon]

4. I got flamed for saying Clark could get a lot of

republican votes.

[ShimokitaJer]

6. Don't take it personally

You're going to get flamed whenever you mention any candidate these days... except maybe Carol Mosley-Braun.

[bloom]

12. thats what I was thinking

(I wasn't going to say it)

[TexasSissy]

26. AND Independent votes, AND Democratic votes.

That's why I think Clark has the best shot against Bush. So many voters in different camps would vote for him.

[Clark Can WIN]

5. I just love the winter

Can you imagine the wonderful landslide victory we could achieve with Clark as our nominee? I't just gotta be him. I don't want a squeaker, I want a full fledged unholy beating of the *.

[wryter2000]

7. Yahoo

I keep hearing stories like this from everywhere. It's hard to know what the individual examples mean in the grand scheme of things. But I think there's a real change of tide going on in this country.

[veganwitch]

9. thats my dad too.

hes not a freeper (fundie ideologe republican) but just a fiscal republican and does not approve of all the spending and tax cuts and the tanking of the ecomony.

we should start a club for converted dads.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. My grandmother, a lifetime GOPer

has been reading the likes of Greg Palast, Al Franken, and Jim Hightower.

She won't be voting for the GOP again, at least not for Prez.

If only I could win my in-laws over. But it won't happen. They are very right evangelicals who adore Bu$h for being such a good an righteous Christian man. :puke:

[wryter2000]

15. Heck

My stepson is a born-again type. When you mention Bush, smoke comes out of his ears. "I thought he was a good, Christian man!" He won't be voting for Bush again.

[nostamj]

13. i have not discussed Clark w/ my father... YET

but, i do feel that he would consider a vote for Clark.

he is not a Rush-loving repub but he did ask for Coulter's TREASON for Xmas. <yikes!>. (i'm still hoping he was just yanking my chain)

but he is a smart man and he has many grandchildren... several of whom will be in the path of *'s war machine by the end of a 2nd * term <shudder><SHUDDER>.

the way I see it, the Dems are going to vote for the Dem candidate. we stand the best chance of ousting BushCo if the Dem candidate also appeals to disenchanted Rs and the independants.

homeland security and foreign/military issues are (imho) going to be the key issues in a post-9/11, post-Afghanistan, post-Iraq environment. especially when those issues are tied to a floundering economy and international trade policies.

BushCo is a disaster across the board. (we can save the domestic and fiscal outrages for another post)

maybe, just maybe, enough Rs will finally realize they are rallying behind a 'photo-op' leader who does not care about their interests. and, when compared to someone who has demonstrated real leadership, they'll make the choice that will really make them safer and the country stronger--domestically and internationally.

i think i could get dad to vote for clark. but i just don't think he'd go for any of the others.

$.02 | I remain committed to vote for the Dem candidate and will ignore any Clark-bashing this post might start. ousting * is more important than the success of any individual candidate. i have not and will not bash any of the Dem candidates and look forward to seeing them come together with ONE voice to defeat all things bush* next year.

[wryter2000]

16. "Our" issue

I think Bush's big spending is the best issue we have with conservatives. I don't think even the worst conservative approves of throwing money at the drug companies as the Medicare bill does. This is the single issue that I get complete agreement with conservatives on.

[nostamj]

22. no argument there

if anything, we have TOO MANY solid issues.

i only hope they are framed:

the environment is being destroyed because of bush* policies

rather than

bush is BAD and he's messing up the environment too.

etc etc etc

[mmonk]

14. Can I bring my hockey skates?

[On the Road]

17. You Heard it Here on DU First

We are the grassroots here. Nationwide trends show up in hundreds of personal stories before they make the airwaves. There have been way too many of these personal stories here to be an aberration.

If your father was polled, he might still sound like a RW Republican in his answers to the pollster. But there will be a difference that doesn't necessarily show up in the polls.

Bush is losing way too many supporters, one by one. I believe he will lose next year, and it will come as a shock. The seeds of that defeat are being seen in all our experiences with family and coworkers.

[lastliberalintexas]

18. I think that's wonderful

But I do have a question for you. We have a wonderful field of candidates this time, the proverbial embarassment of riches, if you will. Why not start talking about the positives of all of our candidates now, so that you have him softened up to vote for our Nominee next Nov? Speaking positively about ALL of our candidates does nothing to diminish Clark, you know. Just as bashing any of our candidates to people like your father does nothing to convert them at a time when they are ripe for the picking (so to speak).

The criticism of Dean to your father does nothing to bring him to our side. It may satisfy your desire to hate Dean or his policies, but nothing to help Dems. I just don't understand it. Is it more important to only convert someone to Clark, or to the party in general? You've got enough opportunities to criticize Dean here on DU- please don't do it with undecided voters.

BTW- I don't like Clark myself- he's last on my list. However, I will vote for him and even donate/work for him if he is the Nominee. I don't speak ill of him with anyone I know who is either a fence sitter or politically ignorant, because I don't want to drive ANY potential voter away from ANY of our candidates. After all, elections can be decided by just one vote. I just wish others could see the harm they do in bashing one candidate rather than praising their own.

[deminflorida]

23. I don't hate Dean.....

But I do hate his tax stance as far as it applies to the middle class. I will vote for Dean in the general if he gets the nod...but that Tax Stance towards middle class America has to go...

I know he gets accused of Flip-Flopping on many issues, well prove some of those accusers correct this time by Flip-Flopping on that one, and Dean sews it up...It's as simple as that.

The heat he takes for changing mid-stream on that issue is going to be a hell of alot less than what he'll take by sticking with it. You can spin anything, he needs to spin that one and quick.

[lastliberalintexas]

25. Ok

Really, you're entitled to your opinion on any of our candidates- it wouldn't bother me if you *did* hate Dean. Just so long as you didn't broadcast that hatred around undecideds. A very good friend of mine hates Kerry with a passion, no matter how much I've tried to work on him. He'll still vote Dem even if Kerry is the nominee, and that's all I ask of him. That, and to not speak ill of Kerry with undecideds! Reagan's 11th Commandment, you know. (the only good idea the man ever had- though it probably wasn't even his!) :-)


And just so you know, Dean wants to do 2 things in connection with taxes- (1) repeal the Shrub tax cuts; and (2) re-implement the more progressive tax structure we had under Clinton. That second step seems to get ignored when some people are talking about his tax stand. Though personally, I'd like us to go even more progressive than that!

[SpiralHawk]

19. My mom is 82

And has never been very political, and always charitable to GW Bush and Poppy. But she is pissed now.

It's everything. LIHOP. Medicare. The Iraq lies. Bush's AWOL record. His grandstanding on the Abraham Lincoln "while our boys were dying in his stupid oil war."

I was blown away by her grasp of the scene, and the fire in her belly when we talked by phone about a week ago. I din't even bring up politics -- she did. And she said most of the "old ladies in this retirement home feel the same way."

Sheesh. What's going on? American smelling the coffee (and the BFEE)?

[mzmolly]

20. The only caution is not to sway your Dad away from Dean...

he might be our nominee and you don't want to plant seeds against him if he is. He also has a Republican following.

http://atlblogs.com/republicansfordean/

[IronLionZion]

21. Awesome! There are many good Republicans

and conservatives out there who have become disenchanted with Bush. My own Father is a Republican, albeit a moderate one, who disliked Clinton but hates Bush even more. He is still registered R so he can't vote in our PA primary, but he will definitely vote Democrat this time.

Bush is obviously not compassionate, but I hear he's not really conservative either. Real conservatives don't like to send our troops off to die, don't like to send our tax money to Iraq, and like their civil liberties and want less government intrusion.

If Bush is not a fascist, then he is very close and tries to hide it with a conservative christian facade.

[deminflorida]

24. You hit that nail right on the head.....

I used to live in Italy and know all too well the history of the facist movement. There are striking similarities to it in the modern day GOP....


"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, April 18, 1946, while awaiting the Nuremberg trials.

[bobbieinok]

27. MEDIA - MEDIA - MEDIA - FL2000 - FL2000

I love what everyone's reporting -

BUT Media will spin and lie for reps 24/7 and those who can keep their sanity will have their votes disappear.

WE have to get an honest media and an honest voting system by May or so or it will be 2000 and 2002 (CLELAND) again.