Lieberman supported by more than 50 people who voted for McCain

[pruner]

Lieberman’s campaign unveiled a fifth television ad Friday, in which he chides Dean for refusing to unseal private records from his governorship. This week, Lieberman will tape a 30-minute town hall-style meeting, which his campaign will air Saturday on Manchester’s ABC affiliate, WMUR, at a cost of $15,000.

The campaign has made a far larger investment of $300,000 in its first television ad placement with a Boston affiliate.

The ad features seven New Hampshire voters who backed 2000’s Republican victor, U.S. Sen. John McCain of Arizona, and who plan to vote for Lieberman in January.

Lieberman enjoys the public support of more than 50 voters who backed McCain and makes constant mention of it on the campaign trail.

…

http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10629230&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=6

[meegbear]

1. Saw it about 3 times this morning at the gym ...

Bragging that repugs support you for the Democratic nomination is nothing to brag about.

[boxster]

2. Why is this a bad idea?

Showing that you can swing voters from Republican to Democrat is bad? No offense, but I disagree.

If we're going to win in November, we need more than just Democrats voting for our candidate. Joe obviously remembers that McCain kicked Bush's butt in NH in 2000, so he's targeting what is likely a very large voting group.

Frankly, I think that's pretty smart.

And, how is it any worse than targeting ultra-right-wing voters with Confederate flags on their pickups?

[pruner]

3. it's not a bad idea for a general election…

but trying to convince Democrats to vote for you because Republicans like you isn't exactly the way to win a primary.

[boxster]

4. But, is that what he's doing? I don't think so....

I don't think he's saying vote for him because Republicans like him. I think he's saying that these voters are former Republican voters that his candidacy has converted to Democrats.

Again, John McCain did extremely well in NH in 2000. Courting those voters is NOT a bad idea. It's actually one of the smarter things he's done in this campaign.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like a lot of Joe's politics, and I would only vote for him if he's nominated because I'm adamantly ABB. But, chastising him for this seems a little misguided.

And, you didn't answer my question - why is this worse than courting ultra-right-wing voters with the Confederate Flag issue? If you believe that Lieberman should be chastised for courting moderate Republicans, does that mean Dean should be feeling our wrath because he's courting the right wing wackos? Seems as though he's running in a primary, too, and not the general election.

Edit: the Democratic strategist in the article seems to agree with me...

"I think he’s trying desperately to find a base," Duffy said. "You need a base, and Howard Dean has really co-opted the hard left, the antiwar left, to the point of really destroying the Kerry campaign."

"There are a lot of independent voters that vote in New Hampshire, and in the last primary they propelled McCain. … It’s a stretch, but you could say that McCain, as a Republican, was able to draw moderates into the party to vote for him. I really can’t fault what (Lieberman’s) trying to do."

[pruner]

5. Dean's campaign is based on a 50 state strategy

Lieberman's is not… he just moved his family to an apartment in NH.

[boxster]

6. That's a cop out. Nice try, though.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

If you're going to bash Lieberman for courting moderates, you sure as hell better bash Dean for courting extremist voters that will never vote for him in a million years. At least Lieberman is courting people who might actually vote for him.

As the article quite clearly states, it's about the only chance he has. If you're fighting for your political life, you often have to take what's available. In Lieberman's case, his first several options are gone, so this is what's left.

[pruner]

7. your analogy was poor

Lieberman is trying to position himself in Dem voters' minds as a credible general election candidate by suggesting that he appeals to Republicans.

his problem is that he doesn't appeal to Democrats.

[boxster]

11. I never said he did appeal to Democrats. That's exactly the point.

What choice does he have? Read the article you linked to. The strategists in that article agree - it's a good strategy and it's the only option he has.

Dean has sucked in the left wing and the left-moderates, Clark and Kerry and the others are taking up most of the rest of the Democratic voters.

Who else is left? Other independent voters and current and former Republicans. Joe's only hope is to get people to switch parties and vote for him.

Frankly, in the long term, this is GREAT for the eventual nominee. If Joe can help swing Independent voters to vote for a Democrat now, maybe they'll vote for the Democrat in November.

Don't flatly ignore a positive situation for the Dems just to bash Joe. There are plenty of other things to bash him about.

My analogy is perfectly fine. You just choose to apply your standards to one candidate and not another.

[salin]

22. Interesting and valid point...

Frankly, in the long term, this is GREAT for the eventual nominee. If Joe can help swing Independent voters to vote for a Democrat now, maybe they'll vote for the Democrat in November.

Far too often in these discussions we lose sight of the big picture. There are many things that different candidates are doing right now, that will help the eventual primary winner in the general election. The point you raise - about bringing independents and maybe moderate (diseffected) republicans into the primary - is a good one. For some, it is hard to make that initial switch (indeed there is an old adage that people are more likely to switch their religious affiliation from that of their parents, than they are to switch their political affiliation - some habits die hard). Once made, however, it is easier to do again.

I once had a friend who came of age in the era of Reagan. For whatever reason she bought into the whole image. She would say that she was 'socially liberal but fiscally conservative' and that the latter won out. I would show her CBO numbers that showed the Dem. House ALWAYS having the lowest budget numbers (compared to the higher spending repub senate {pre 1986, and the dem return to power in the senate}, and always much lower than the reagan proposed budget). It made no dent.

Several years later she went back for a bachelors degree and was taking more and more poli sci classes - which focused her attention on social issues. I laughed in 1992 that the day she declared herself an independent - it was over for her... that she would quickly become a democrat (where her actual stand on issues fell). She informed me that she had already made the switch (from gop to ind to dem - all within very short speed.)

I hadn't thought of this regarding this story and Sen. Lieberman - thanks for pointing it out, it is a very good point.

[boxster]

8. Really? Has Dean been visiting and campaigning in all 50 states?

Or is he, just like every other candidate, concentrating on the early primary states?

Hmm, that would be the latter.

I hope that you don't really think his Confederate Flag comment was part of some grand 50-state scheme. It targeted a select group of voters who aren't going to vote for him no matter what he says, and it pissed a bunch of other voting groups off.

If that's your idea of a general strategy, I'd hate to see your idea of a targeted one.

Besides, you ignore the obvious. If Lieberman doesn't show well in NH, it's over for him. He needs to survive NH if he has any chance, and he can always expand his campaign if a miracle occurs and he does well enough to hang around. There's no point in having a 50-state strategy if you don't make it through the first 2 or 3 states.

[pruner]

9. you're damn right the flag comment was part of a 50 state strategy

while all the other candidates seem willing to write off the South, Dean is not, and that's what the comment was all about.

[boxster]

15. Sure, it was.

Oh, please.

That comment did nothing positive for him, because he screwed it up. He meant to say that they should be voting Democratic because of insurance, health care, etc. What he said was that he wanted to represent them. Two entirely different things.

Strategy only works if your message is what you intend it to be. If the message is screwed up, it doesn't have the affect you intend. And, if you honestly believe that it didn't sway some voters (negatively), you weren't paying attention to either the media or DU at the time.

But, again, you avoid the question. Why is it ok for Dean to court extremists but not ok for Lieberman to court Independent voters? Your argument makes no logical sense, and it's pretty hypocritical.

Lieberman is trying to bring people to the party - should we only be interested in the votes of left-wingers? If so, we might as well kiss off election 2004.

[Bucky]

18. The flag comment shows how naiive Dean is about Southert voters

Liberals have been talking about winning over Southern whites since Hubert Humphrey. It's never worked except when a candidate shows that he's not culturally elitist. Clinton did this. Another liberal Democrat who did this was Jesse Jackson in 1984 with his original Rainbow Coalition, which was far more diverse than his 1988 effort. By then he was too much of an establishment figure to pull off that routine.

I can tell you why Dean isn't going to resonate in the South, but I can't quantify it yet. I can tell you that I get a gut level feeling from listening to him that he's talking down to me, that he thinks he knows better than the little people. It may not be true, but I still get that feeling and I'll bet good money to tangerines that most people down here in Flyover Country will get that same impression.

Of course my gut instinct told me that Boyz2Men would never hit it big because audiences don't like co-dependent whiny little sissy boys.
So my prognosticatory skills are not without flaw.

[Bucky]

12. Good point, except

"how is it any worse than targeting ultra-right-wing voters with Confederate flags on their pickups?"

I would dispute that most folks with Confederate flags are "ultra-right-wing." They're anti-establishment, altho not in a way that will ever do Dean any good. Everything about Dean announces that he, culturally, is part of the establishment.

[RPG-7]

13. bad logic

Voters (the people who count) are extremely polarized on Bush. The Bush people, really, really, like Bush and the anti-Bush people really, really, hate Bush.

America is split right down the middle and the winner wont be the guy who can grab a few votes from W. The winner will be the guy who can bring out the anti-bush vote. For every McCain republican Lieberman would pick up he would lose as many as five anti-bush, anti-Crusade on People Who Eat Ham votes to people who just sat home in disgust or vote third party.

[boxster]

16. What are you talking about?

This isn't about Bush. This is about Lieberman's strategy in the primary in one state. He's courting Independents and moderate Republicans who voted for McCain. This discussion has exactly nothing to do with Bush.

Lieberman's not going to win the nomination. He's not going to win NH. He's hoping he can place as high as third. Anti- or pro-Bush voters will have very little to do with anything in this article or in this discussion.

[BigMcLargehuge]

10. I just got their mailer

LOL

[KG]

14. appealing to repook voters

seems to be the liebermans and the DLC's strategy.

geez think what could be accomplished if they tried to appeal to dem voters?

[pansypoo53219]

17. exactly

how about appealing to democrats JOE?!?

[Bombtrack]

19. have you people ever heard of independants

you're living in a world where there are only republicans and democrats, some where only conservative republicans and liberal democrats.

McCain had success because all the anti-2 party independants flocked to McCain. Which is why Gore won so easily.

And McCain is most democrats favorite republican, although obviously anyone with an R after their name is obviously a nazi to alot of you people.

We all know Lieberman has been dead in the water since he began, but you're responses are rediculously narrow minded

[boxster]

20. Yes, and NH has one of the highest Independent voter percentages

in the country. If you don't appeal to the Ind's, you don't win NH.

[Gringo]

21. For every 50 McCain voters Lieberman gets, he loses 60 dems

The man is not liked or trusted by most of the party rank-and-file. I personally don't like him, even though he has occasional moments where I want to cheer him on. He should drop out, along with ambassado, Mosely-Braun and congressman Dennis Kucinich. They have no chance. I'd recommend the same to Sharpton, but he's just so entertaining to listen to that I'd really miss him. Lieberman should just join the GOP. Maybe he could help bring some sanity back to that extremist party. He is way out of the mainstream for a dem, and betrayed Al Gore after the 2000 selection (and NOW he has the nerve to say that he and Gore should have WON) To hell with him.