"Dean supporters act like * supporters." (long rant)

[He loved Big Brother]

This statement was posted by another member, and at first glance makes sense. But upon closer examintion it really means nothing. Ex: Dean supporters act like Dave Matthews/Phish fans.

I had to post a thread to try to make peace as a Dean supporter, or at least give my interpretation of where we are coming from in regards to the article posted in this thread- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=83051&mesg_id=83051&page=

Dean supporters act like defenders of this that and any other thing they strongly believe in. Doesn't mean the cause is an incorrect one.

Passion is admirable. Fundamentalism is not. * supporters are fundamentalist...Dean supporters will follow the logic, point out to Dean what needs to be changed (medical marijuana stance for example), and he will do so accordingly. Dean LISTENS, and has NOTHING to lose by doing so. "Beware the man who has nothing to lose." And bless the man who listens to us instead of us listening to him.

It all comes down to this...Dean is NOT NOT NOT a rival of TRUTH and PROGRESS. Not that some other Dem candidates are, but some of them do seem to be rivals of truth and progress happening in a timely fashion...

It's SO important, after the Gore bashing of 2000, that a good candidate isn't brought down by bubblegum labels, biased ignorance of what the American people really believe, and half-assed reporting. Of course, that has always been an important cause, but where was everyone when it was happening to Gore???. The internet was just as open and available for utilization back then, was it not? For some reason, few Gore supporters were riled up enough to organize and correct the untruths or stand up against the bashing en masse.

The Dem candidate, whomever they are, will of course get bashed up one side and down the other, but the question is THIS: When it comes to winning or losing, will we FEEL the deep down urge to defend, tooth and nail, any candidate enough to help him through that? Will we BE SURE to correct anyone and everyone, even fellow Dems, so that nobody is unenlightened to the facts about the Dem we happen to support? To make sure no bullshit goes unpunished, to make sure people and the media KNOW "we the little people" are paying attention this time and intend to do whatever it takes to make sure they get away with NOTHING that we let them get away with when Gore was running?

Show me some hard-core supporters of DEMOCRATIC candidates that invoke the passion and MOTIVATION that Dean does to me (or Kucinich does to others), and I will throw support behind him as well. I want to be in the group that speaks up against faux reports of ANY Dem candidate. I want PASSION for what I believe in to be on display constantly, and in displaying that passion, my motto will be "the rules are, there are no rules." If Bush can win with far fewer supporters, we can defnitely win, because there are MORE OF US LEFTIES, and even worse, we are smarter and more pissed off. It doesn't bode well for the wingnuts.

The media better learn quickly what they are up against. And if you feel the same way about Kerry, Clark, or whomever, then get your word out. Bashing other candidates constantly does nothing but take valuable time that could be spent shouting from the rooftops how great of a president your candidate will be.

Like me- I do not bash, I simply say these things about who I will vote for. I will not vote for a candidate who voted in favor of nullifying the constitution (PATRIOT Act), I won't vote for Lieberman, and I will not vote for a candidate that, now that the falseness of the evidence came out, still stands by his mistake of supporting Bush's Iraq cause by voting in favor of it. That's about it.

The rest of my time will be spent looking for reasons to vote FOR Dem candidates that deserve it.

[Egnever]

1. Excelent!

Well said and with much passion!

Thank you and bump!

[Khephra]

2. Excellent post!

Well said!

:toast:

[Eloriel]

3. Here here!!

Or is it Hear hear!!

Eloriel

[hedda_foil]

6. It's "Hear! Hear!"

Right "Here Here" too! Great, great post.

(And it is "HEAR" as in "listen to what this guy is saying" or "I hear and agree.")

Grammar police on patrol.

Hedda

[Teacher4dean04]

4. You're my hero!

Excellent post! Thank you for nailing it on the head: Dean has given people way to harness their feelings of being ignored and trampled over by the * misadministration, and turned that energy into a realistic way to get * out of office and fight all those who try to ignore We the People. Dean is all about We the People, and I'll happily support any candidate who speaks for We the People.

[Egnever]

5. We the people!

just a shameless kick for a great post!

[dajabr]

7. Nice job boiling it down, HLBB.

Deanocrats are just highly motivated Democrats - with a hearty helping of concerned citizens of all stripes, ready to get off the couch and participate, mixed in. This is why Dean will win IMO.

[IDUDOYOU]

8. It is not what people say, it is what is heard

From this rant, it was stated that you would not bash other candidates, but you would not vote for Lieberman because of his support of the Patriot Act.
Why not just say positive things about Dean and ignore other candidates?

To me, this was just an irrational rant by a Dean supporter who sat down at the computer and started typing away because of criticism of their candidate.

Please, if this is an example of someone who supports Dean, I'll vote for anyone else.
And please stop bashing other candidates if you support Dean.
No wonder the Republicans are pulling for Dean.

[Touchdown]

9. Let me get this straight...

Saying that a candidate's enthusiastic support for the destructive, and fascist Patriot Act disqualifies him in one voter's mind, is now an irrational rant???

This is one person's ethical and civic choice (a choice I happen to agree with), and you paint all Dean supporters with the same broad brush.

Before you lump me in with your other stereotypical Dean straw men...I haven't made my choice who to support yet, but your rants and scoldings are moving me closer to Deans camp every day.

[DavidNY]

17. If you disqualify people for voting for the Patriot Act ...

You're wiping out essentially the whole U.S. Senate (unless Feingold runs). I wouldn't have called it a "rant" ,but I do disagree strongly with that position. You're ruling out people who would make very good Presidents, just because they didn't join the lone dissenter in one vote.

I think both John Kerry and Bob Graham would be very good Presidents, Kerry especially. (My tentative favorite at the moment is a Kerry-Graham ticket.) You're going to give up on a social-issues liberal with a stellar environmental record, a tremendous background in foreign policy and an inspiring and character-shaping life story because of one decision that 99% of the Senate agreed on? Or if the Iraq war vote is a dealbreaker for you, you're going to give up on someone who voted against the war, has proposed government investment in infrastructure that will get the economy moving again, strongly attacks the administration's absurd coziness towards Saudi Arabia, and has a very successful political record in the electorally most important state in the nation? That's your right, but it seems to me you'd be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and in politics complete perfection is basically unattainable.

[Touchdown]

19. I can't speak for Big Brother, but I myself can

see the difference between those that voted for the Enabl...err...Patriot Act, and those, like Lieberman that enthusiastically endorsed it. It was passed in the heat of passion (so to speak) right off the heels of 9/11, and I can forgive a bit of over-protectiveness. Like Big Brother, my list of Holy Joe's sins are much longer than just that though.

[He loved Big Brother]

24. I think many who voted for it would make good presidents.

But the Constitution is really all we have, and voting to nullify the very thing that defines us and protects us makes me wonder why that person deserves to sit in the Oval Office...if any Senators running for President renounce it, I will vote for them. And I mean make it a centerpiece talking point that it is one of the worst things to happen to our freedom, and explain how they felt "protective" at the time...our representatives are human, they freak out and make impulse decisions just like anybody. But they can redeem themsleves, should they feel the desire to do so, while running. And I think (this is just what *I* think) if you want to be America's leader, you should feel the desire to keep the Constitution intact. Is that too much to ask? I am not a one issue voter, but it's the CONSTITUTION! And I want it back! Especially in lieu of the possibility that the SCOTUS will become even more conservative.

[He loved Big Brother]

10. My choice about Lieberman-

Is based on much more than just his support of the PATRIOT Act.

[IDUDOYOU]

11. A group is judged by the least common denominator

What candidate's supporters attack any criticism much more than any other?
Undoubtedly Dean's.
When someone sits down and types a long, obviously spur of the moment rant attacking criticism of their candidate and contradicts themselves about bashing candidates, why should I listen to what that person has to say about their candidate?
By the way, I do not know who I am voting for.
A candidate's supporters can say a lot about their candidate.


"Gentleman can disagree without being disagreeable."

[IDUDOYOU]

12. Again, the point I am trying to make is

Dean supporters need to tone it down.
Blunting criticism is one thing, but being blunt is another.
How you deliver a message is just as important as the message itself.

"Gentleman need to disagree without being disagreeable."


In case Dean supporters are popping a blood vessel from my "criticism", remember it is constructive.
You can change the tone and method without changing the message.

People read more into attitude than the words actually said.

[He loved Big Brother]

13. I am blunt.

Sorry, but I am. And I don't see it as a liability. I do, however, use tact.

I don't feel I need to retract anything I posted. :shrug:

[IDUDOYOU]

14. One should never dwell on the past

but remember what happened in the past.

[Touchdown]

18. I think we got your point, and

your "constructive" criticism is well taken, as has been all day. It might be time to take some of your own advice, and lay off. Nobody likes an incessant nag that carps on the same thing ad nauseum. That behavior, as in your words..."turns people off!"

"A group is judged by it's least common denomiator."

Mindless sophomoric platitude.

[ChrisNYC]

20. How is it bashing Lieberman to point out his conservative record?

Are the facts bashing now?

[He loved Big Brother]

22. What's funny is I didn't bash Lieberman.

I just said I wasn't planning on supporting him. I said, before that as a seperate point, that I also won't vote for someone who voted to nullify the Constitution. Not for POTUS anyway.

"And that's...ok." Stuart Smalley ;-)

[Khephra]

15. One more time

"It is not what people say, it is what is heard"
Posted by IDUDOYOU

(If people hear what they want to hear, then why should anyone say anything? This is Alice In Wonderland logic.)

From this rant, it was stated that you would not bash other candidates, but you would not vote for Lieberman because of his support of the Patriot Act.

Why not just say positive things about Dean and ignore other candidates?

(Then why are you bashing Dean supporters in threads here today? As the good Doctor might ask: "Do you practice what you preach?" from this thread, and the one post I responded to in BN, I guess not.)

To me, this was just an irrational rant by a Dean supporter who sat down at the computer and started typing away because of criticism of their candidate.

(And you are different from the original poster of this thread in what way?)

Please, if this is an example of someone who supports Dean, I'll vote for anyone else.

(I think anyone who has read your comments here today knows that you're never going to vote for Dean, so stop playing coy.)

And please stop bashing other candidates if you support Dean.

(Pot, meet kettle.)

No wonder the Republicans are pulling for Dean.

(Strange, but in the thread in BN you posted:

"Dean supporters are really rubbing some people the wrong way.
And these are Democrats! Just imagine the message that might be relayed to independents, Republicans, and others."

There you are concerned about him driving Republicans away. Make up your mind, ok?)

[Touchdown]

23. I think he's laid off this thread

and resurrected his own...but he's still harping on Dean supporters.

Talk about your single issue voters!:eyes:

[JNelson6563]

16. mmm hmmm

interesting......

[DarienComp]

21. Good points all.

Thanks.

And yeah, I am a Dean supporter.