Church wants to punish pro-choice pro-gay marriage politicians!

[wyldwolf]

The three Catholics in the Democratic presidential primary quickly fired off statements supporting the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruling last week that same-sex couples have the right to marry.

Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio and retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark made the announcements despite two Vatican directives this year to Roman Catholic officeholders never to promote laws that endorse gay marriage. --- Politicians' practices -- known as "cafeteria Catholicism" -- led U.S. bishops last month to begin exploring possible penalties for officeholders who ignore church doctrine. It would be the first time the U.S. church threatened to discipline individual politicians.

"This is a miracle," said Judie Brown, president of the American Life League, a Catholic-influenced anti-abortion group based in Virginia. "It takes seriously the problem of pro-choice Catholic politicians."

Punishments could range from bans on speaking appearances at Catholic institutions to excommunication.

http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~1801647,00.html

[ablbodyed]

1. These people are NUTS...........

and we wonder why the rest of the world HATES us. Those old twerps in their cassocks should be more concerned with justice than with running peoples' lives to fit their perverted (and celibacy IS PERVERTED) world view. They hate anybody that doesn't conform to their orders. It's been true throughout history, so I guess none of us should be surprised that it continues.
IT'S TIME TO REJECT ALL ORGANIZED RELIGION FOR THE FLAWED (BUT unbelievably SUCCESSFUL) SCAM THAT IT IS.
Embrace your spirituality: REJECT MAN'S ATTEMPT TO CONTROL (FOR HIS BENEFIT, not not not not not YOURS!!!!!!!!!)THE DEEPEST NEEDS OF YOUR SOUL.

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Hating religion

Well, you just throw your cards on the table at least.

Your post is so offensive, it's just so hard to say where to start.

* Why are they, "nuts" to expect that members of their faith adhere to the rules of that faith?
* As for the world hating us, I doubt this has anything to do with it since Catholicism is active in many nations and a good number of people there seem to dislike the U.S.
* What rationale do you give for claiming religious sacrifice of one's self (celibacy) is perverted? Just because you don't agree?
* All things are flawed, but I'll take organized, or even disorganized religion, over most any day.
* So, do you agree man has a soul? If so, who put it there?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. While I wait for your post to be deleted

I would like to remind you that such bigotry and hatred has no place in our society, much less so here.

[liberalnurse]

3. I guess they prefer to not

to follow the Constitution.......Separation between Church and State.

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. Followers

I think even the most unreasonable person would say a church has the right to expect that its members follow its rules. Those that don't follow those rules are subject to sanction.

[KensPen]

8. Muddle makes good points

I don't begrudge the Catholic church trying to have it's members push forth it's agenda.

I support gay marriage, or more specifically gay unions. I think that there are many legal aspects of a marriage that should be made available to gay couples. I support any church who chooses to perform the ceremony. But I also support those churches who do not.

I personally believe the Catholic church to be on the wrong side of morality on this issue. But I prefer the way they address it to the Southern Baptists who send hate commandos to all gay related news sites.

[NicoleM]

15. I agree with you.

*

[BlueJazz]

5. Fine with me, I think they should get involved with politics.

I think the church should start publishing lists of politicians that
to the church, don't fill their idea of true Catholics.

While their at it, they can start paying Taxes like any other
corporation.

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. They are not a corporation

They are a religion and are entitled to discipline their membership as they see fit.

[BlueJazz]

16. I still feel when any church gets into politics whether

directly or in this case, indirectly, then it's Tax time.

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. So you trust the IRS

To determine what is religion? How well do you think THAT would go right now?

Personally, I do NOT trust government to make an accurate distinction.

[BlueJazz]

20. Sorry, I trust the IRS a lot more than I trust...

...people who believe in Sky Fairies.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. If I don't believe in you?

Will your posts disappear?

[jsw_81]

6. The Church would probably burn us "heathens" at the stake if they could

Just like they did for centuries when they ran things. Remember the Dark Ages?

[youngred]

26. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

there's a huge difference between them chastising politicians who are members of the church and burning heathen's at the stake. Nice exaggeration

[dusty64]

10. A perfect reason

why these political organizations should be forced to follow the rules other blatantly partisan groups have to. I believe a return to the taxrolls is also in order for these multibillion dollar businesses, especially as their main agenda these days seems to be working hard for the denial of other people's rights.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. So you want to tax religion

Simply because you disagree with it.

The hell with that Constitution thingy.

[KensPen]

13. Taxing a church

might not be a bad idea......

I would give a church very liberal tax loop holes...
and if the monies it collects are funding the church, and charities,
I would agree they should be tax free,
but if they are being used for politcal purposes or other such activities I think they should be taxed.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. You trust government?

To be a fair arbiter of what is religious? Especially when there is a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow? Or would they more likely allow that with which they agree and disallow what they oppose?

[BlueJazz]

18. I don't trust Religions to be....

...a fair arbiter of what is Religious. They've proven time and time again
that they can't keep their noses out of the policical scene.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. More the reverse

Politicians have proven time and again they can't keep their hands off religion.

[LeahMira]

24. Who pays attention to Catholic excommunications, etc.?

You trust government?
... To be a fair arbiter of what is religious? Especially when there is a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow?

This fellow has it right on the nose...
"They are afraid of alienating pro-choice Catholics and suffering the consequences of that alienation, including loss in donations and loss in federal funding dependent (on Catholic abortion-rights politicians in Congress)," said Deal Hudson, editor of Crisis, a conservative Catholic magazine.


Talk about the pot of gold!!!

It's the same reason why they are so upset at the reports of child abuse among their clergy... fear of lost donations, which some dioceses are dealing with right now. Serious losses.

The Catholic Church is exactly like any other business. Money insures its continued existence. It's certainly not unique among the religious groups, but neither is it any noble exception.

The Catholic bishops in the U.S. (as I've probably bored everyone by mentioning) published "Economic Justice for All" back in 1986. Most Catholics don't know anything about it, and their parish priest isn't going to tell them about it. First preference for the poor? Heck, that would mean that the churches might have to stand in line!

Meanwhile, Catholics are up in arms about Catholic politicians supporting choice and/or gay marriages. What's with this Catholic hang-up about SEX.

The day the Catholic Church starts to excommunicate politicians for not following the bishops' teachings on economic justice is the day people will start taking Catholics seriously. Until then, who the heck cares what politicians they excommunicate?

Those who support choice and gay marriage have my vote for sure.

[youngred]

27. Its not just a Catholic hang up with Sex

many religions and sects of christianity have the same bizarre hangup

[mrgorth]

19. This is why I've started

going to a United Church of Christ church as of yesterday. I'm disgusted by what the catholic church is doing. For those of you who don't realize how serious this is, here's an article about how the conservatives are trying to drain every ounce of liberal thought from the RC Church:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2003/11/02/the_crusaders/

snip
A powerful faction of religious and political conservatives is waging a latter-day counterreformation, battling widespread efforts to liberalize the American Catholic Church. And it has the clout and the connections to succeed.
snip

[mrgorth]

22. kick

.

[BootinUp]

21. Isn't the real issue

that if certain Church leaders are going to start picking the splinters out of the politicians eye they need to address the logjam in theirs. As I see it this sort of action is perfectly up to the church, but it will probably end up costing them more followers in the end.

I basically bailed from practicing catholicism because of all the hypocrisy making me ill. That doesn't mean I didn't get some good things from being raised a catholic just that I have bitten the apple of knowledge and can no longer have blind faith in all the dogma of the vatican. I suspect I am not alone.