Inside the Clark campaign... Many good questions. Policies vague.

[mojowork_n]

This is a link to a column in The Nation by a guy who used to write for "The Exile", Matt Tabbai. "The Exile" is to "The Onion" what Missy Elliott is to Debbie Gibson, or what a good crunchy baguette is to Wonder Bread. I don't know, pick your own analogy. The main difference being they're just better writers, and a whole lot smarter.

So consider the source, but do read all the way through to the end, and draw your own conclusions carefully:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1128-05.htm

[IranianDemocrat]

1. This article is garbage.

The author already had preconceived notions about Clark before the author wrote the article and never portrayed clark correctly.

Classic bullshit from commondreams.

[slinkerwink]

2. commondreams.org is not full of bullshit

it's one of the few websites out there that actually give good editorials attacking Bush's policies.

[IranianDemocrat]

5. Ya but...

I have no problem with their anti bush rhetoric, I have a problem with lies about democrats.

[slinkerwink]

7. do you also have a problem with tiabbi writing lies about Dean?

He obviously has an anti-Dean/anti-Clark bias, based on the articles he's written about them. The question is whether other supporters will think the anti-Dean piece is correct while ignoring the same reporter's bias towards their candidate.

[IranianDemocrat]

18. Yes I would have a problem with tiabbi'/s anti dean rhetoric.

Because like me, Dean is a Democrat. I respect Dean a lot, and I would look down on any smearing done to him by a progressive as well.

[slinkerwink]

19. thank you for saying that...

[CWebster]

30. That doesn't make them immune from criticism

So long as you have opportunity to counter the criticism. Clark supporters tend to react to the fact that there is criticism rather than addressing the criticism.

[Pastiche423]

9. Pretty soon

there will be no good liberal websites that are to be believed...

According to the clarkites.

Commondreams not an excellent liberal site? P'shaw!

[FrenchieCat]

3. You are only the

5th "Kind" poster that has posted this garbage...where have you been?

Thanksgiving holiday?

Kinda like the Waco article that was posted 5 times yesterday.

Boy, we are desperate to lose this election, aren't we?

[slinkerwink]

4. comes from the person who whines about lack of media coverage

Form a rapid response team! Actually write e-mails to writers that write "crap" about your Clark......don't whine, get off your butt and actually do something.

[KittyWampus]

6. who the heck do you think you're talking to slinkerwink

what freaking nerve!

[slinkerwink]

10. oh, we need freaking nerve to win this election

we can't be whining about everything. Why do you think I work my ass off for my candidate and put him in the news coverage at my college? Work to get your candidate in the local news too, and if you see obvious bias or lies about your candidate, work to counter that! Instead of sitting here in GD whining......

[KittyWampus]

13. HOw Do YOU KNOW What Frenchie Does Or Doesn't Do?

you omniscient?

Seems I've seen her post SEVERAL letters to the editors on DU.

And there IS a letter writing crew amongst Clark Supporters....

[slinkerwink]

14. I don't know, but all I hear is the whining about lack of media coverage

that's what she seems to bring up a lot. I do concede that the media is biased to the right, but whining about lack of coverage for your candidate isn't going to help him get elected. So........form a letter response group or whatever.

[_NorCal_D_]

17. I'm working

with the same vigor at my school to get my candidate nominated. Unfortunately I have to contend with these smart asses: B-)

http://studentsfordean.berkeley.edu/ B-)

[unfrigginreal]

15. You should consider yourself lucky.

Slinkerwink should have charged you for the advice. It will help your candidate a lot more than moaning about perceived sleights.

[slinkerwink]

16. nah....don't want to be rich that way....

who needs advice from someone who interned in DC with a Congressman? ;-)

[IranianDemocrat]

8. Good point actually.

.

[mojowork_n]

40. My Bad, Yes, I don't spend every waking minute here in the forum, so...

I had no idea the article had already been posted. I don't actually hate OR worship Wesley Clark, or any one of the other candidates. They all have their good points and their weaknesses.

Al Sharpton's the funniest, but unfortunately, his *coiffure* is the least presidential of all of them. Dean projects a straightforward, honest passion about the issues he raises that also sometimes gets him in trouble, with sound-bites he might have thought twice about if he was a less candid sort of individual... You can go down the list.

But I don't really have a good idea of WHY anyone is for Clark, except that he's been a talking head on CNN, has GREAT hair, and seems to be a pretty slick telegenic type. I'm not ruling him out from my own personal list of Democrats I'd be happy to see BEAT BUSH in 2004, I'm just wondering what's behind the facade, what it is we might live to regret, if he gets to be the front-runner.

So far, based on the responses to Matt T.'s article, I have a good idea of what sort of insults, insinuations, and impreccations Clark supporters are capable of, when faced with criticism, but not much of a grasp of WHY any of them support him, or what it is that brings out their loyalty. No one took the time to counter any one of the points made in the Nation piece. Which Commondreams listed near the top of their daily list, so I tended to give it credibility...

Pardonez moi.

[knowledgeispower]

11. This paragraph sums up the Clark campaign perfectly:

...paying close attention is not really what the Clark campaign is about. In fact, it's very much about the opposite: squinting your eyes, blurring out the margins and focusing on the one main goal on the horizon--beating George Bush. In my time around the campaign I got the sense that this "blurring out" is central to the thinking of the Clark supporter--a desire to dispense with the moral nitpicking of the post-1960s era and get behind the man for the Big Win.

Kinda like Clinton, no? I still can't decide if that is really a bad thing though. Maybe a Clark/Clinton type is the only Democrat that can win a Presidential election these days. But is it really much of a "win" for the left?

[_NorCal_D_]

12. This has been posted

several times before:

Clark's True Colors
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=92700

Clark's True Colors - The Nation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=23136


This Matt Taibbi character is obviously biased.

[slinkerwink]

20. so?

write to taibbi instead of whining about it here on GD.

[OKNancy]

21. Can we quote you in the future

when you see an unfavorable article about Dean? By the way, has anyone told you that the picture on your sig file of Dr. Dean makes him look like a goofball?

[Scott Lee]

25. Yeah but your candidate looks like a big poopyhead! Nyah!

honest to gods.....and people wonder why some Democrats are losers...

[wtmusic]

22. Well that sorta hits the nail on the head

good post--thanks!

[OKNancy]

23. If anyone cares to know, after the zillionth time this has been posted

Look up Matt Taibbi. Google his name and read some of his stuff. He's a far left fringe fellow who fancies himself to be quite clever.
He's the leftist answer to Pauly Shore.

[Pastiche423]

24. What is far left fringe?

[Scott Lee]

26. Anyone who doesn't kiss Wes Clark's florsheims, obviously.

.

[Zorra]

28. Democrats?

:shrug:

[OKNancy]

32. The fringe hates Democrats

They hate Clinton with a passion. Hate Gore, Hate Clark, and they even hate Dean. They think spiking tress is a good thing. They think Russia is a better place to live now than the US...since things have gotten so bad ( at least this author does) They think Mumia is a hero. Do you need more?

-----
Dean candidacy announcement, June 23: "The Americans I have met love their country. They believe deeply in its promise, our penis and our penises. But they know something is wrong and they want to take penis. They want to do something to right our path. But they feel Washington isn’t listening. And as individuals, they lack the power to penis the course those in Washington have put us on."

http://www.nypress.com/16/44/news&columns/cage.cfm

[Pastiche423]

35. The article you linked to

said nada about the "far left fringe".

Why did you link it?

I have been "accused" of being far left, yet none of what you say applies to me in any form or fashion.

Me thinks you know not about what you blather.

[OKNancy]

44. If you will read my post

you might understand that I was speaking about the AUTHOR of this piece. He is nasty to Dean, as well as Clark. Look him up.

[Pastiche423]

46. Well, are you going to answer my question or not?

There were no quotation marks in your post, stating that the far left fringe hate democrats. So, I had to assume you were giving your opinion.

[roughsatori]

37. Your post reads like it was written by a Member of the Free Republic

Or a satirist mockingly quoting Ann Coulter writing about the "Far left." I am a Democrat who you might call "fringe" but your description is wrong in every way regarding me.

DU has moved so much to the Right due in large part to the invasions of Clarkies--but your post has just inched this site more toward a Free-Republic then I would have thought possible.

I don't hate Clark. I think that he is a phony white man with a blank stare who has a record of helping the Republicans but not the Dems.

As well, he will lose the election if he wins the nomination. The people who lean to the Republican side already have Bush* to vote for in the election.

[OKNancy]

43. You guys are reading me all wrong and what I said.

If you will read my first post, I was talking about the AUTHOR or this hit piece on Clark. He is fringe, not you and certainly not Dean supporters. He doesn't like Democrats, it doesn't matter who they are.

Just because I support Clark doesn't mean I'm a freeper. I hate nasty slam pieces, and I don't care who they slam. Even our own Indiana Green has debunked and ridiculed this author and this article.

If he slams Dean, I'll say something about that too....ok?

[Zorra]

41. I am a Yellowdog Democrat.

You would probably consider me fringe if you consider Matt Taibbi fringe.

Matt Taibbi, in his own words:

I was never much impressed by the "Howard Dean problem." To me personally, the whole issue seems ridiculous: I would vote for Count Dracula over George Bush.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031006&c=6&s=taibbi

So what is fringe?

I have never voted for a republican, or anyone other than a Democrat. I am willing to bet Matt Taibbi has never voted for a republican either.

Have you?

[OKNancy]

45. Once for Corporation Commissioner

I was with Clean Gene.

[roughsatori]

33. Deleted by the author of the post

I must have hit post before I was finished. :shrug:

[roughsatori]

34. My father a moderate life-long Dem, WW2 Vet, Church goer must be a radical

fringist. He supports Dean (I support Kucinich). He watches CNN all the time including their War coverage. After he heard about the Draft Clark movement he asked me: "Isn't he a Republican commentator for CNN? Why do Dems want to draft a Republican for the ticket?" When he and my mother get back from Communion at St. John's I will inform him that by many DU Clarkie standards he is a raging leftist. It is strange because he is part of the Demographic that many of Clark's supporters claim are guaranteed to vote for Clark--yet he is a Deanie.

He asked a brother of mine who is a Clark supporter (and who last year announced he was thinking of becoming a Repuke) if he could send him a list of actions that Clark has ever done that would indicate he had Liberal tendencies. My brother could only send him a link to a recent report of Clark helping to raise money for a Dem.

When I hear Clark espouse some Liberal ideology I always think of the saying: "Even the Devil can quote Scripture."

[CWebster]

31. cracks about Common dreams... "far left fringe fellow"...

We are through the looking glass here folks and it sure do sound like the Fox network.

[roughsatori]

39. The post you are referring to is so against the posted goals of this site

that I am surprised it has not been deleted. The Trojan Horse that is the Clark movement has begun to empty within the DU walls.

[Zorra]

27. Let's Just Nominate Kucinich Or Dean.

Both of them have so much less baggage, and any Dem is going to win in 2004 anyway. Why take the risk?

I'll vote for Clark if he's nominated, but what is the point in nominating him?

Other candidates are much clearer on the issues and in their statements, have legislative experience, have never voted for or supported republicans, have less "colorful" histories, want to regulate big business, and can defeat the Chimp.

[Jai4WKC08]

54. You gonna share that stuff you're smokin'?

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

29. I think

we should elect the most liberal antiwar talking suit at this particular time:eyes: Actually, Clark is against this war and a lot of the baggage written by anti Clark writers isn't real baggage. However, he is far from a weak candidate.

[Pastiche423]

36. He is also far from a liberal candidate

[Donna Zen]

38. True

But he is certainly more liberal than Dean.

[Pastiche423]

42. Proof?

Please supply a link that proves clark has done anything liberal prior to his "coy" period and prior to his running.

His liberal script does not count, as that is only repeating words written by someone else.

[Pastiche423]

47. Can't come up w/even one, eh?

[BeHereNow]

50. Forget the past, let's examine the PRESENT

Realities surrounding Clark-
As far as looking into Clark's buddy boy circle...
Take a look at Anthony Huang and a company
called Rexton Media. Take a look at their customer list.
http://www.rextonmedia.com
Next have a look at Entrust Technologies, the company
Clark just stepped down from...
http://www.entrust.com (Kind of sounds like Enron, doesn't it?)
Now go look at the insider trader reports here:
Look up symbol ENTU and go to insider info-
(take note of NORTEL connection there too.)
http://www.finance.yahoo.com/
And who is Nortel? FRANK CARLUCCI president until
very recently...who is Nortel in partnership with?
ENTRUST!
What contracts are they picking up?
GOVERNMENT! DARPA! HALLIBURTON!
And the best and most recent?
NORTHROP Grunnam...BIG ole contract for Entrust and Homeland Security
an in relationship to the lovely Patriot Act. (NEW PATRIOTISM ring a bell?)
The usual suspects.

Wesley Clark is neither a Dem or a Repub-
He is a corporatist, as are Bush and and his Cabal.
Also, note Entrust and Nortel both have Canada companies,
why does that matter? Because that is where Poppy Bush's
buddies, the Brown Harriman bankers hide.
(Entrust funded by Carlucci/ Nortel Network etc...)
Anthony Huang and Clark former Board (Sirva) are also heavily into
the business of outsourcing and corporate tax minimalizing
with off shore banking.
They specialize in how to save the corporations money
by outsourcing jobs.
Nice huh?
Especially if you look closely at Clarks pitch
for a civilian service program...
Answers?
Explanations?
I remain open, but so far I have had NO
reasonable responses from Clark supporters about these concerns and
corporate connections as far as Clark is concerned.
I think they are reasonable concerns and warrant further
discernment and investigation.
Flame away...
But the facts remain, AND they are not personal, but concrete facts
about a candidate who says one thing but is CLEARLY
enmeshed with the corporate elite who have seized our government
and country.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

52. I am kicking...

Because I would like to hear Clark supporters
response to the links I posted.
Please refrain from emotional repsonses and
rather indicate your political comprehensions
of what these corporate connections mean to you
in a concrete and logical frame of discourse.
For me, they raise SERIOUS and imporant questions
as to "in whose interest" WC is employed.
BHN

[wyldwolf]

53. * * * * More far left conspircay paranoia... * * * * *

As far as looking into Clark's buddy boy circle... Take a look at Anthony Huang and a company called Rexton Media. Take a look at their customer list. http://www.rextonmedia.com

Despite my best efforts, I can find no direct link between Welsey Clark, Anthony Huang, and Rexton Media. The Closest link I could find was that while Clark was managing director of merchant banking for the Stephens Group Inc. of Little Rock, Ark., the company bought shares of Tyco stock and that Tyco is a client of Rexton Media.

If this is the case you are building, I totally reject it. It is nothing more than the odd little connect the dots game that gets played here often. Are we living in a bizarro world where associations, even indirect associations, with companies that one political group or another finds to be lacking makes one lacking, too?

But I did study Rexton Media's customer list like you suggested. Sure. Some baddies on there. Some good folks, too. Can't find a Carlucci link (that you mentioned in a PM) unless, again, Carlucci is associated with one of Rexton's customers which gives an odd "third cousin twice removed" link with Wesley Clark.

Next have a look at Entrust Technologies, the company Clark just stepped down from... http://www.entrust.com (Kind of sounds like Enron, doesn't it?)

I guess ENtrust does sound like ENron. So? Are you implying that because the company did business with several government agencies, this is a bad thing for General Clark? And because "Entrust" sounds like "Enron" that makes them bad? "Intel" sounds like "Enron," too.

Where's the connection?

Now go look at the insider trader reports here: Look up symbol ENTU and go to insider info- (take note of NORTEL connection there too.) http://www.finance.yahoo.com/ And who is Nortel? FRANK CARLUCCI president until very recently...who is Nortel in partnership with? ENTRUST!

First off, what does "insider trading" have to do with the link you gave?

Secondly, Carlucci wasn't president of Nortel, he held a non-executive chairman of the board position.

Now, the Nortel-Entrust connection? This is about all I can find:

"Entrust Technologies Inc. (Nasdaq: ENTU), the global leader for solutions that bring trust to e-business, today announced that Nortel Networks'* (NYSE/TSE: NT) Contivity* Extranet Switch has passed Entrust Technologies' in-house testing earning the designation of Entrust-Ready™. Customers of Nortel Networks are now assured that the Contivity Extranet Switch is tightly and securely integrated with the Entrust/PKI™ software to bring scaleable and manageable trust to their remote access, branch-office, and business-to-business Virtual Private Networks (VPN's)."

So Entrust tested a Nortel product, it passed the test, and now they partner with Nortel using it?

So?

Where does Wesley Clark fit in with this? Oh, I get it. Because Clark was on the board of directors at Entrust at the same time Carlucci was the non-executive chairman of the board of Nortel when that deal was struck, right?

WRONG!

Wesley Clark was on the board of Entrust from January 2002 to October 2003. Carlucci resigned from his position at Nortel in April of 2001! They never served on the respective boards at the same time.

You post is just another example of far-left "Six degrees of Kevin Bacon" name/corporation association that, after scrutiny, just doesn't wash.

Your implication is that being associated with said companies and/or profiting from them makes you a corporatist.

Here, then, is what I expect from you:

You cannot purchase, use, or benefit from the following companies who have done business with Rexton Media:

Do not buy gas from...

Amoco
BP
Texaco

Got an Air Conditioner from Honeywell? Rip it out!

Don't use phone and phone services from Sprint or T-Mobile (oh dear god! Actress Catherine Zeta-Jones is T-Mobile's global spokesperson! She's in bed with Clark, Carlucci, and the BFEE!)


Zeta-Jones: Whore for the BFEE?

If you get sick or injured in Houston, DON'T go to the Methodist Hospital of Houston. Die before you let them corporatist pigs work on you!

You cannot purchase, use, or benefit from the following companies who have done business with Entrust:

Cisco Systems Inc.
IBM
Lucent Technologies
Microsoft Corporation
Novell
..and many others whose products and expertise have allowed you to post on Democratic Underground..

[mmonk]

48. I don't see where Clark is so vague

compared to the other candidates. Maybe its because I listen to him and have read one of his books? Maybe its because I don't see the others being all that precise. I think alot of this is just plain bull.

[Pastiche423]

49. Me thinks you have blinders on

clark's vagueness has been demonstrated on this very thread.

[ShaneGR]

51. Well, other than that big document on his website, spelling out his views

There's nothing else. So I guess posting a long document on your homepage, spelling out your views, everything is vague.

And what does Missy Elliot have to do with this?