Beyond the Cloture Vote - Daschle Calls Point of Order Thread #2

[Tatiana]

Barbara Boxer up, explaining why the point of order was called.

Basically because it "busts the budget."

If the Repubs don't get 60 votes, the bill will go back and they will have to start all over again. Have the chance to have a good bill, a fresh start. Selling off family heirlooms is not something we want our seniors to be doing.

Seniors would be forced into HMOs.

(other thread was getting long)

[Tatiana]

1. Chris Dodd up.

Using Barbara Boxer's chart... calls it "alphabet soup."

[maddezmom]

2. Dodd doing a good job

The repubs used the same point of order earlier on the bill.

[0007]

3. Why didn't you bring the link?

'Tis confusing when one thread is broken and no notice on the other one was given.

[bain_sidhe]

6. Here ya go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=767678

[Tatiana]

4. Good God I HATE Santorum!

Just looking at him gives me the creeps. He's semi-ranting about how the Democrats are complaining that the Medicare bill is over the budget but the Democrats want to spend even more.

Says the point of order is a gimmick.

[Cocoa]

5. this stuff is boring

and complicated.

Can't we just go back to posting funny pictures of Daschle lookin like he's gay?

[KayLaw]

7. I'd like to know when they have to vote

This is interesting.

[Tatiana]

8. Corzine confuses me.

He's complaining about the bill. Talking about negotiating for price controls. Sounds like he's against the bill...but he voted for it! :shrug:

[Tatiana]

9. About Cloture and Points of Order

Cloture:

"The cloture rule–Rule 22–is the only formal procedure that Senate rules provide for breaking a filibuster. A filibuster is an attempt to block or delay Senate action on a bill or other matter. Under cloture, the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours of debate."

point of order - A claim made by a Senator from the floor that a rule of the Senate is being violated. If the Chair sustains the point of order, the action in violation of the rule is not permitted.

(From the Senate glossary)
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/b_three_sections_with_teasers/glossary.htm

[Nlighten1]

46. So this means?

Daschle is trying to get the filibuster stopped?

[Tatiana]

73. He stopped Kennedy's and Kerry's filibuster.

And now he's engaging in a type of filibuster of his own with this point of order.

[bain_sidhe]

10. Excellent strategy, IMHO...

As I posted in the other thread before this one, this "procedural point of order" gives cover to Senators who might not want the medicare bill, but are afraid to vote against it. Voting for the point of order is a vote to enforce the budget resolution. It's completely different from voting against the Medicare "prescription drug benefit" (translation, "steal from Gram and Gramps to enrich drug companies and HMOs")

[maddezmom]

11. Dick Durbin

giving it to pRick Santorum about price fixing. Why not Tommy Thompson did during the Anthrax situation. Guess it's only good to try to secure lower rates if a Repbub is doing it.

[Tatiana]

12. God Bless Dick Durbin

He's laying it all out there. Connecting the dots with the insurance companies (and AARP) and how they stand to profit. He feels very strongly about that.

Eliminate the giveaways!

"Sustain the point of order!" he says.

[dweller]

13. Durbin connecting the dots

gingrich to golden rule to hca (?) to aarp....

sweet!

dp

[maddezmom]

14. Go Dick Go

I'll second that...SWEET!!!

[redqueen]

15. Thanks to everyone

for these updates, explanations, etc...

Durbin will be getting a "thank you" call from me! :D

[creativelcro]

16. This is awesome!

I love this process... I wish we had more senators on our side to start with... BTW, personally, I would benefit from this, obsiously, as I'm young and healthy (so far)... But the point is that there are people who need this stuff more than I do...

[Cocoa]

23. if you're young, the $400 billion cost will not help you

unless you are a pharm or insurance company.

[Tatiana]

27. Or own stocks in such companies n/t

[1songbird]

17. Breaux is the next Zell Miller.

[dweller]

19. who let that Dino

up to speak?
whadda dink.
dp

[bain_sidhe]

18. coming up to the end of the P.O.O debate

Er... that's point of order debate. Should be voting on it pretty soon. If nothing else, it will be interesting, to see how the vote goes... and what happens after that -- does Daschle have another trick up his sleeve or not?

[creativelcro]

21. so, we only need 40 NOs, right ?

[Tatiana]

22. If this point of order is sustained...

Daschle has probably saved his job. It was certainly a creative maneuver.

[creativelcro]

24. Baucus (D-Montana)= traitor

[maddezmom]

20. wonder what next ? n/t

[Tatiana]

25. Max Baucus (D) - Montana up.

Says this is a "good bill."

:puke:

[creativelcro]

26. Daschle says "last chance"

Don't think he has other tricks up his sleeve...

[maddezmom]

28. there has to be something else???? n/t

[Tatiana]

29. Me either :(

Says if the president is concerned about controlling costs, he will sustain this point of order.

"This is our last chance!" Then, he yields the floor.

Lord... callin the roll....

[bain_sidhe]

30. voting now.

Most people not there at the moment... will have to go through the list at least once more, I suspect.

[Emboldened Chimp]

31. Daschle yields, calling the roll

they're about to vote...keeping my fingers crossed...

[Langis]

32. Voting on P.O.O. right now

I am really nervous.

[drdon326]

33. ANYONE KEEPING COUNT?

.

[Emboldened Chimp]

34. Results are now coming in...

we'll get the finally tally soon...ayes coming in

[Tatiana]

35. Damn...

9 min 40 sec. and counting...

[Tatiana]

50. Mr Coleman - Aye

Mr Bunning - Aye

Cornin - Aye

Reid of RI - No

Edwards - No

Feinstein - AYE (sellout!)

(To Clarify they are voting whether or not to waive the procedural rules)

[Emboldened Chimp]

36. Reid of RI the first NAY

they've been mostly AYE...Edwards NO

[DemBones DemBones]

37. Relying on y'all to tell us when the vote is over!

I've rewound my TiVo & am transcribing Durbin's great little exposition of the connections between Republicans, United Health Care & AARP. Now taking a short break to ask:

Max Baucus & Trent Lott: twins separated at birth?

[oxymoron]

38. Edwards - no, Feinstein aye? (nt)

[Emboldened Chimp]

39. Feinstein AYE...

BIG fucking surprise there...I really hate my senator...why doesn't she learn from Boxer?

[kentuck]

40. Under the Budget Act, aren't there supposed to be offsetting cuts...

For any extra spending? Is this why McCain and Hagel voted against it?

[Emboldened Chimp]

41. Feingold NO...Smith AYE...Jeffords AYE (jerk)

[Emboldened Chimp]

42. Boxer NO...take that, Feinstien...Biden NO...Lieberman NO

[Malva Zebrina]

43. Biden NO this time

[creativelcro]

44. 28 nays so far.

[Langis]

47. my count is

yes 33

no 21

I could be wrong, but I don't think I missed anyone

[Langis]

45. so far

yes 29

no 13

[Emboldened Chimp]

48. NOs making a comeback: Dodd, Cole, Clinton, Sarbannes...

[bain_sidhe]

49. At the very least...

(and this assumes I understand what Daschle said correctly) Democrats have a great campaign point... "Republicans voted to bust the budget just so they could give drug companies and hmos" X billion (missed the number) this year.

However, this is based on the following point, which I may have ... ah, imperfectly understood:

As I understand the point of order, the problem is what's being spent in 2004 - and there's no money for seniors in 2004, the only money this bill spends in 2004 goes to insurance companies & drug companies.

Anybody know if I've got that right?

[creativelcro]

51. 32 nays

[Emboldened Chimp]

52. Scumbag Chambiss: AYE...Bayh a big fat NO

[creativelcro]

54. 35 nays

[creativelcro]

55. 36 nays

do we need 39 or 40?? is the senator who did no vote back ?

[Emboldened Chimp]

53. Magic Bullet Spector: AYE...Rockefeller NO...Collins AYE...Levin NO

[Emboldened Chimp]

56. ARRRGGH: Landrieu AYE (what's up with her?)

[1songbird]

65. Following in Breaux's footsteps

[Tatiana]

57. How many "Nays" we got?

Need 41 to be safe.

[Egnever]

58. scheumer looks happy I think we got this!

republicans look decidedly unhapy!

[Tatiana]

59. Are we at 40 "nays" yet???

[Egnever]

62. holding the vote open

i wish we had a firm count. looks to be very close.

[creativelcro]

60. I think so far we have 36 nays... not enough

[creativelcro]

61. is the senator who did not vote earlier back?? if not we need 39

[creativelcro]

64. Why are they slowing down???

[Egnever]

67. twisting arms

same thing that hapened in the house.

[KayLaw]

69. Is there no time limit?

I haven't heard Kennedy's or Daschle's name called, though I may have missed it because my sons keep talking to me.

[Egnever]

71. republicans control the gavel

so no esentially there is no limit.

[Tatiana]

63. Who's not present?

The other side doesn't have 60 do they?

Schumer, Kennedy, and others need to start some good old-fashioned arm twisting...

[Langis]

66. They have 50 by my count

[Tatiana]

68. Okay so both sides are waiting for Senators to show up.

More than 10 are missing, no?

I should have paid more attention to the roll call.

[dweller]

70. who is they?

yay or nay?

edit: i lost my connection, but got it back to hear 61/39

dp

[creativelcro]

72. THEY is the yays! I think we have 36 Nays (did not count the yays)

[creativelcro]

74. SHIT

[Langis]

75. They said the vote was

61

39

[Tatiana]

77. Damn.

That's sorry. Feinstein, coming from California should have known better. Wonder how many corporate donations she'll receive for her reelection campaign????

[1songbird]

76. I feel betrayed

[Langis]

78. As do I

Why did so many democrats fold on this? I have more respect for McCain at this point then all the DINOs we have out there. :argh:

[Tatiana]

79. Cause we have been betrayed.

I mean, c'mon McCain voted AGAINST his party... at considerable cost (they'll make him pay for his vote), but yet we can't find any damn loyal Democrats to help support the fight against this bill?

WTF!

How many Republicans do you see crossing over to vote with Dems? And how many feckless Dems cross over and vote with the Republicans TIME and TIME again? This is ridiculous. Where is the opposition in our party?

If this is the case, why don't morons like Feinstein and Baucus and Breaux just do us a favor and switch parties because they sure aren't with us when it counts.

[Malva Zebrina]

80. I expected it

and so have been preparing myself and not getting my hopes up anymore. Betrayed? What else is new. Senior citizens, especially the poorest and the sickest, are easy targets--they have little resources to fight back. Picking on women, and picking on gays and all the people who are the weakest--they are out to git em--as Ted Kennedy, who BTW, fought the hardest I have ever seen him fight, said--the next will be Social SEcurity and after that, I think, it will the public school system--Republicans have ALWAYS hated the idea that they are giving their money to the poorer, or the weaker--damm it --it is THEIR money and it should be given back to them. Yet, it will be the poorer and the weaker whose money will go, when it , along with SS and education, goes to faith based charities--because NO ONE will oppose him on that either--even though they are not of the religion they are supporting. It is ironic that AARP is using the money of the seniors to make this move against them.

[1songbird]

81. My guess is money.

There must have been kickbacks and other incentives the lobbyist offered. This is a shameful day for our party.:(

[Langis]

82. I feel sick

:puke:

[qanda]

85. I'm unhappy about this, but...

I think the backlash from the seniors is going to be so severe that they will have to come back and undo this if they want to keep their jobs.

[dweller]

83. Has Cspan stopped coverage?

cspan2 now has capitol hill stories or such scheduled now.

dp

[maddezmom]

84. still on

but playing classical music now.