The CALIFORNIA CONSITUTION CALLS for Cruz Bustamante to be governor

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

in the event that Davis cannot complete his term.
Cruz Bustamante was elected by a MAJORITY not a plurality

California voters ELECTED him to do so.


California voters already HAVE a remedy if they don't like it which is to RECALL Bustamante.

To do otherwise would be a de facto recall of Bustamante,and/or a de facto reinterpretation of the duties of Lieutenant Governor.

All power rests with the people. The people voted for Bustamante by MAJORTIY NOT PLURALITY.


SEC. 9. The Lieutenant Governor shall have the same qualifications
as the Governor. The Lieutenant Governor is President of the Senate
but has only a casting vote.


SEC. 10. The Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor when a
vacancy occurs in the office of Governor.
The Lieutenant Governor shall act as Governor during the
impeachment, absence from the State, or other temporary disability of
the Governor or of a Governor-elect who fails to take office.
The Legislature shall provide an order of precedence after the
Lieutenant Governor for succession to the office of Governor and for
the temporary exercise of the Governor's functions.
The Supreme Court has exclusive jurisdiction to determine all
questions arising under this section.
Standing to raise questions of vacancy or temporary disability is
vested exclusively in a body provided by statute.


CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL


SEC. 17. If recall of the Governor or Secretary of State is
initiated, the recall duties of that office shall be performed by the
Lieutenant Governor or Controller, respectively.

[pfitz59]

1. Darrel Issa is toast!

Do you think Fat Tony will butt in, again?

[Oilwellian]

2. I'm so glad you posted this

I was asking a friend last night why the Lt. Governor wouldn't take over the duties if Davis were recalled. Hee heee!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I'm not saying that is how it WILL turn out, I just think the constitution

calls for it and an argument is THERE. If one wants to replace Bustamante one can so the people are not left without remedy if they are unhappy about this.

The point is the constitution says all power should be with the people. Bustamante can be recalled too if need be. If Davis is recalled, Bustamante SHOULD become governor because the OPERATIVE word in the constitution is SHALL. SHALL IS A MANDATE.

Since any recall of Bustamante could be accomplished at the next general election, were it to qualify, it would cost the voters onf the state of California no more money to do so. The only person(s) it would cost more money for is the Republican party who is attempting to set aside an election properly reached.

[Clete]

4. Thanks for posting this.

Calling all Californians to write your representatives in the legislature about this:

http://www.sen.ca.gov/

http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/defaulttext.asp

[GOPisEvil]

5. There you go, getting all legal again!

The law doesn't matter to those people.

For what it's worth I'd make a simple sign: start with an electric bill from summer 2001, then Enron, then 72%-28%. Ask which party is responsible.

I can't believe that Gray Davis would take the fall for something that Pete Wilson (ptooey!) started and Bush, Cheney and Enron finished. But then we're talking about Machiavelli's wet dream with Republicans...

[JackSwift]

6. Nope, not a ghost of a chance

I researched this question a few days ago when it came up and there is no question in my mind (and I am a lawyer in California, not that the Supreme Court agrees with me often).

§ 16. Recall procedure
The Legislature shall provide for circulation, filing, and certification of petitions, nomination of candidates, and the recall election.

Adopted June 8, 1976.

Section 10 does not address recall. Section 17 specifies only "recall duties", which by other sections is clearly calling for the election.



Election Code 11322 says: In addition to the material contained in Section 11320, the
following shall appear on ballots at all recall elections, except at
a landowner voting district recall election:
(a) The names of the candidates nominated to succeed the officer
sought to be recalled shall appear under each recall question.
(b) Following each list of candidates, the ballot shall provide
one blank line with a voting space to the right of it for the voter
to write in a name not printed on the ballot.


Time to get your heads out of fantasyland. If you don't want Davis recalled, send his committee money now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. I'm already doing so but here's where I think you may not be correct

The code reads as it does because most recall elections concern offices for which there is NOT already another constitutional remedy for replacement. There is a Commission on Government that this could come before but they are mostly Dems and John Burton sits on the board.

The constitution states that power rests with the people. The people are not without remedy. A majority rests MORE power with the people than does a plurality.
To give the executive office and executive powers to one elected by PLURALITY removes power from the people it does NOT rest it.

One section of the state constitution does NOT cancel out another section. A section of the state constitution already addresses the manner in which the governor is replaced.

Again, to do otherwise would REMOVE power FROM the Lieut Gov.

Again, I am NOT saying this WILL occur, I simply think there is a strong argument FOR it.

And I am also working with an atty assn. to raise funds for Davis.

[JackSwift]

40. As someone who professionally interprets Cal law

I don't think that it is at all ambiguous, and the Cal Supreme Court, only one Dem appointee, has exclusive jurisdiction, and I strongly doubt they would interpret it that way.

[damnraddem]

12. Was any of that from the CA Constitution?

Clearly the Election Code is not. In other words, are you citing statutes that might be in conflict with the Constitution?

[Trek234]

25. If so...

Does the state constitution always override state law?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. Laws FOLLOW the constitution, not the reverse.

[JackSwift]

42. Laws and regulations and opinions

interpret the state constitution. Yes the constitution controls, but if it isn't clear, laws control, then regulations are advisory to the court, and lastly the court can decide. The constitution is silent on the question of the Lt. Gov. in the event of recall, the people passed the recall provisions at the same time so they could have included recall and did not, so the silence is an ambiguity at best and is silent deliberately in this instance because the recall election provisions apply.

[JackSwift]

41. In the event of an ambiguity

The election code would be given deference to the point of it would be foolish to argue it, unless it is clearly wrong.

[Trek234]

24. deleted

.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Quick question Jack

SEC. 10. The Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor when a
vacancy occurs in the office of Governor.
The Lieutenant Governor shall act as Governor during the
impeachment, absence from the State, or other temporary disability of
the Governor or of a Governor-elect who fails to take office.

Sentence ONE does not say TEMPORARY, only sentence TWO does. The remaining sentences apply to the order of succession PAST Lieut. Gov. Since no precedent exists in a Governor recall...

[JackSwift]

43. The law should be interpreted as a whole

As there is a specific procedure for recall, it probably cannot be defined as a vacancy when if appropriate (he's recalled) automatically elects the fool with a plurality.

[Terwilliger]

29. he needs money? thats bunk

if he needs money, then he didn't manage his 2002 campaign well...he had more commercial time California than any politician I've ever seen before...and these are most tv stations in all the major state markets which means his commerical tirades against Simon (and earlier Riordan, who he would have lost to) were extremely well financed.

Now a well financed constitutional challenge later, there shouldn't be any whining about the power of ungegulated money.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. Come on Ter! He beat repubs at their own game and they don't like it

If you want a Green to hold office, fine but let them win by majority as well , not plurality.

[JackSwift]

44. The facts are contained here

http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Campaign/Committees/Detail.aspx?id=1069390&session=2001&view=general

So he does not have enough left over to run a real campaign. I only suggested that people who wanted to do something donate. I don't like Davis enough to donate myself, and I hardly expect any opponent of his to donate. If Camejo runs, I will not be voting for him, I'll write in Bustamante. I will never vote for a Green

[Character Assassin]

7. That can be argued two different ways.

So why would there even be recall process? Why would it specify the method for choosing a replacement? If this were immaterial because the Lt. Governor would automatically assume power, it wouldn't exist.

California Constitution Article 2, Section 15:

SEC. 15. (a) An election to determine whether to recall an officer and, if appropriate, to elect a successor shall be called by the Governor and held not less than 60 days nor more than 80 days from the date of certification of sufficient signatures.

(b) A recall election may be conducted within 180 days from the date of certification of sufficient signatures in order that the election may be consolidated with the next regularly scheduled election occurring wholly or partially within the same jurisdiction in which the recall election is held, if the number of voters eligible to vote at that next regularly scheduled election equal at least 50 percent of all the voters eligible to vote at the recall election.

(c) If the majority vote on the question is to recall, the officer is removed and, if there is a candidate, the candidate who receives a plurality is the successor. The officer may not be a candidate, nor shall there be any candidacy for an office filled pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 16 of Article VI.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. See my post 11

[dfong63]

33. one possible reason

So why would there even be recall process? Why would it specify the method for choosing a replacement? If this were immaterial because the Lt. Governor would automatically assume power, it wouldn't exist.

the recall law doesn't just apply to the governor's office, but to other state offices as well.

[JackSwift]

45. Again, it is a matter of reading it as a whole

if appropriate, means if the vote is to remove, not if it is the Gov and the Lt is standing by, in which case it would say so.

if there is a candidate means if someone has filed to run in the election.


This thread seems to me to be wishful thinking that is ignoring political realities as well as standard rules of legal interpretation. I understand that most folks aren't acquainted with how to read statutes (and contitutions), but if people want to defeat the recall, it's going to take money and shoe leather, not pie in the sky.

[jamesinca]

8. This was addressed in a news conference today

Mr Bustamonte does not assume the governors job. Only if Davis can not show up. It does not pertain to a recall. Since a recall effort has never been this far in CA, people are scrambeling to look at the election laws on this. The dems are still saying they will not run anybody. The last poll I heard was 51% wanted Davis out. Bustamonte has some things he can do 1) select the date of the election, Oct 7, 2) the wording of the ballot. He may confuse people with the wording, it may be clear, in any case it is Bustamonte that selcts the wording.

51% want him out - CA is, the last I heard, 55% dem 45% repug. If the Dem party gets all their people out there and overcome apathy by the voter you are still looking at a good part of the Dem party wanting Davis out. If they don't get the voters out, the repugs are always ready to go, that can be counted on. I think in either case Davis will lose his job. I will not vote against him, but I do think he will lose his job. I will write in Bustamonte on the write in line if that is allowed. I think that is the best chance that we have here is to get the Dem party educated about the ballot and have them write in Bustamonte after they vote no on the the recall.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Damn missed the press conference

Who stated that?

[jamesinca]

38. This was in the noon time news

they showed clips from the press conferences today. They happened sometime this morning. The reporters were live in Sacramento. It was the ABC affiliate here in Fresno Ch 30. I am sure it is on theire website. The S.F Chronicle is certain to have something. I have not been there yet to see the coverage they will give it. www.sfgate.com

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. I think whomever addressed it was addressing the LIMITED language

in the recall clause, not the other relevent constitutional issues.
My argument doesn't hinge on IF APPROPRIATE.

[damnraddem]

18. Davis should agree to have Bustamente list himself as a Dem candidate.

Dem leaders should make it clear that they will oppose any other Dem candidates. Then, if Davis is recalled, there will be multiple GOP candidates, but only on Dem -- the guy who would have replaced Davis were Davis otherwise to leave office (and who perhaps should anyway under the CA Constitution after a recall).

[Clete]

9. On another post NSMA

said that the recall election on Oct. 7, is about whether to recall Davis or not. If he wins that one, there is no recall and no further problem. All California Democrats need to mobilize all pro-Davis people to get to the polls to reverse the recall.

Also, shouldn't something happen to Issa and the other perpetrators of this scheme?

[Walt Starr]

10. Don't worry, there will be a SCOTUS decision that cannot be used as

precedent that will cite the 14th amendment and the irreparable harm to Daniel Issa.

Ain't no way Fat Tony is letting this thing slide...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Can't it's a state issue and the matter rests with the California SC

which is mostly Repub too though.

[Walt Starr]

17. That didn't stop them from interfering with a state matter in Florida

remember 2000? That was a state issue too and it didn't stop them then.

[Walt Starr]

15. Moot point, Bustamante announced election on Oct 7

http://www.msnbc.com/news/942889.asp

It's a two part ballot.

If they don't put up a Democrat, I give up on the party. Plain and simple. Handing over the governorship of the largest state in the union without a fight and a backup plan is so foolish, I do not want to be a member of such a party.

[gasperc]

23. the two part ballot is still up in the air

Looks like there is an attempt by petition in northern Cal plus by Bustamente to hold the successor election up to 180 days from the recall.

But I think Davis can beat the recall, he's taking the fall for everything. enough's enough

[Mike_from_NoVa]

19. Question

If Davis were to resign BEFORE the recall election, wouldn't the recall become moot and Bustamante become Governor? If polls indicate a Davis recall looks likely, I'd think this is what CA Dems should advocate. This would stop 'em.

Bustamante can appoint Davis Lt. Gov. and if there's another recall fiasco, they can repeat as necessary until the next REAL election.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I don't believe he can now that a recall has been certified. Not certain

[SoCalDem]

32. If Davis had a heart attack and died today

Bustamonte would be Gov.. no recall.. I don't see why he could not resign at any time prior to the election, and have Bustamante replace him..

Does it say anywhere tthat a Governor cannot step down for ANY reason??

If Bustamante id Gov, there is no recall against Davis..:eyes:

[Clete]

21. California has budget woes as it is.

How are we going to pay for all these recall votes?? Another solution is needed.

[salmonhorse]

36. True & Agreed ~

A major reason to not hold a recall is the cost itself. Far more than Davis' "fault", it is the ongoing scourge of Prop 13 cheer leaded and only then voted in long before Davis showed up and by re-publicans themselves; energy theft perpetrated by Texas oil pipeline and energy companies such as ENRON and Four Corners that have since and by sanction of the Bush/Cheney white house and felonius activity across state lines drained the Cali St Treasury.

Performing legislative analysis and tracking the mood of the electorate some 2yrs ago in was determined; the budget numbers went up from 23bil, to 25 and 26bil, if you will, so as to say: 'accordingly'. There was no "lying" on the part of Davis. The numbers were right there for all who cared at the time to look at them. re-publicans ar4e palying the Cali electorate for utter fools. It has all been laid out there the entire time as unpleasant as it was to see it as such. Much of the difference was what was on the table in the form of a suit brought by Cali before the FRC for which Cali was only awarded a fraction thereof due to the perpetrator's affilliation with the Bush/Cheney white house.

The difference between what was prayer for in suit and awarded is the basis for Isaa's bitch-kitty, hissy fit. There is nothing else for him to stand on other than what was 'winked & nodded' over by the Bush/Cheney white house.

[Walt Starr]

22. Nope, he had to do it before the signatures were submitted.

That was the only way around it.

[Mike_from_NoVa]

26. Why didn't he?

Is he vain enough to think he's going to get enough support from the party to avoid getting recalled? From what I can tell, he's too damn unpopular with Dems to survive this. This is a dirty shame.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. He's more popular with Dems than Issa or Simon would be

possibly NOT Arnold though.

[salmonhorse]

34. Go Cruz Go!!!

:toast:

Rove/RNC/Nixon-Bush-Cheney/Halliburton-Harkin-Big-Oil-Bechtel/Bush-Family-Oligarchy Admin = Issa = toady = lap dog?

:spank:

[dud]

35. I wouldn't get my hopes up just yet

The repukes are fighting back with this ditty from the California Constitution that deals specifically with filling the vacancy caused by recalls:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC 15 (c) If the majority vote on the question is to recall, the officer
is removed and, if there is a candidate, the candidate who receives
a plurality is the successor. The officer may not be a candidate,
nor shall there be any candidacy for an office filled pursuant to
subdivision (d) of Section 16 of Article VI.


If you ask me it looks like there is going to be an election. Some people had better get their heads out of their asses and wake up to reality or next thing we know there will be a Republican as Governor.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Right but MY argument is that there is ALREADY a constitutional remedy

for the vacancy of the office of governor.