The Dean is a Radical Leftist Red Herring is In Full Swing

[Stevendsmith]

The media echo chamber is now chanting the Dean is a radical leftist crap at full volume. Utter nonsense! Dean supporters need to denounce this spin loudly and often. Opposing a bogus war does not make one a radical left winger. Dean, a moderate liberal, has been calling bullshit on the Iraq adventure from the beginning. And events have shown that he was dead on the money.

It's disgusting to see how the GOP-spoon-fed media presents the Dean is a radical lie as an accepted truth and then moves on from that point of departure:

"Howard Dean, the candidate of the radical anti-war far left, blah, blah, blah..."

The most troubling aspect of this hoax is that it will likely be persuasive. As Chomsky asserts, if you repeat lies loud and often enough, they become true. This has been the MO of the Bush administration from day one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

1. That's because they are trying to get Dean nominated.

Which won't happen if Democrats understand what he really stands for.

[Stevendsmith]

3. Yep

And we need to make sure their strategy backfires.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stevendsmith]

15. Oops

I assumed the post below mine linked to Dean's web site. Now I see where you're coming from. I support Dean. And I agree about the circular firing squad.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. we ask the same of Dean supporters!

At what point are you going to come out and say you want Bush elected, since that's the obvious result of nominating your candidate? Oh, you disagree with that assessment?

The only thing worse than candidate bashing is bitching about it. Face facts, it was Dean that started the candidate bashing when he started misrepresenting his record and attacking the other candidates as DINOs ( a joke coming from him).

[Hep]

20. First of all

he didn't exclude rabid Dean fans from his admonishment.

Second, it's pretty sad when you pull out the "He started it" crap. If you think it's wrong, don't do it. If you think it's OK, don't criticize others for doing it.

Third, it's either scary or funny that you say the only thing worse than bashing is bitching, when your very next sentence serves to bitch.

[displacedvermoter]

22. The only thing worse than candidate bashing is bitching about it?

Excuse me, but what the fuck are you talking about? I'm not sure who I support yet. I've sent money to three different candidates (Dean, Kerry, and Kucinich)andI don't know who is the best candidiate yet. I sure as hell know that I am more inclined to disregard candidates whose champions are strangers who insult me and people like me who are listening to the candidates, and ignoring people like you.

How the hell do you know that nominating Dean will obviously lead to four more years of Bush? It's like being on the psychic hotline around the clock around here, with all these seers looking a year in advance and making bold predictions. But I do know that continued hard feelings stimulated by personal attacks on this site could, very likely cause rifts that could, in turn, lead to problems whenthe camapign starts for real. Frankly, I'm pretty much prepared to support the Democratic nominee, whomever that is.

Unfortunately, I doubt the common sense and maturity of some who spend all their time attacking individaul candidates to come to their senses next year and vote in the best interests of us all, namely voting for a Dean or Kerry or an Edwards even if that wasn't your first choice.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. "Candidate bashing" = "being critical of a candidate"

Did Dean and Kerry (whose supporters are the number one bashers on DU) think they were going to waltz into the nomination without anyone criticizing the many things there are to criticize them about?

No one gives a damn about candidate bashing on DU, and no matter how vile or foul we are it will not compare to what the GOP will do to our nominee. Perhaps I should have said the only thing more tiring than candidate bashing (which has a purpose, criticism and defining attacks) is bitching about candidate bashing, which is just so much wasted keystrokes. I guess bitching about bitching about candidate bashing is worse, so what are you gonna do?

[displacedvermoter]

27. Put me down as a 69%er!

OK?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. good answer

that is the correct answer when you have no point!

[Lorien]

68. Agreed

If our candidates can't stand up to criticism from fellow dems, then they don't stand much of a chance against the opposition party. Once the nomination process is over, however, we should indeed insist on unity.

[mrgorth]

35. From what I have seen on here

the Dean bashing is far worse than that against other candidates. I may say why I prefer Dean to Kerry or that Kerry is focusing too much on Dean but I would never say he's not electable or not really a dem or any of that other bullshit. John Kerry would be a great candidate. Let's see him get the nom. Just don't sell me this illuminati agenda shit. Good posts displaced.

[displacedvermoter]

72. Just saw I had a couple of messages poofed!

I was saying that I was tired of the constant aggravation that gets stirred up daily. Thought maybe a little more civility might make things more pleasant. You know, let's not tear each other down completely before next year when the republicans do it for real!

Funny, I called the other guy an ass -- kinda fooling around -- and that didn't get poofed.

Rip away at each other, I guess.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. I understand, if you're not for Dean, you are for Bush

I forgot that Howard Dean, the economically right-wing pro-corporate governor of VT, had already won the Democratic primary.


Oh wait, he didn't. You're full of it.

[IronLionZion]

55. economically right-wing?

spoken like a socialist.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

60. Tell us what he's like - haven't heard much from Vermontians...

n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

61. Vermonters on Dean

Howard Dean: the Progressive Anti-War Candidate? Some Vermonters Give Their Views

Luck, pluck propelled Dean to national spotlight

Vermonters for a Clean Environment on Dean's environmental record

[Upfront]

28. Bull Shit

I know what he stands for, and it is the average American. Go Dean!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. What politician doesn't say he stands for the average American?

Totally meaningless. If you are happy supporting Dean, knowing his record, knowing that "his political enemies for the first three terms were Democrats at the State House, not Republicans" then fine. I don't think his record is going to win him the nomination because I believe he is way to the right of the average Democrat.

(When Dean became governor) they (liberal Democrats) were all thinking, oh we got a Democrat back in the governor's office. And all of the sudden they find Howard Dean's worse on spending (than Snelling). The state was headed into a recession at the time. And Snelling before he died, he and Ralph Wright cut a deal on raising the income taxes and (inaud.) the deficit--a few years of austerity. Howard stuck with the plan. And as Dick McCormack (Democratic Senator from Windsor) will tell you of the meeting where he (Dean) met with the Democratic Caucus and told them then, and this might have been before, when he was still lieutenant governor, and told the Democratic Senators, you're never going to win because people don't trust you with their money. None of your great and lofty goals and plans and aspirations will ever be achieved because people don't trust Democrats with their money. We got to prove it to 'em. And that was key. I mean his political enemies for the first three terms were Democrats at the State House, not Republicans. Republicans loved his budgets.
--Peter Freyne, veteran Vermont political reporter
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/freyneint.html

[neuvocat]

67. Dean said it was most unfortunate

because at the time he was the furthest left candidate out there.

(I don't know if that was before Kucinich entered or not.)

[ShimokitaJer]

2. Personally, I think we should ignore this particular spin point

Dean's record as governor makes it impossible for this one to stick. Dean is conservative in exactly the way middle America wants a president to be conservative: financially. When the time comes to compare Bush and Dean, calling him too liberal isn't going to fly in the face of Bush's fiscal irresponsibility.

In the meantime, I wish we could quit feeling we have to counter every RW spin point, no matter how inane.

[caledesi]

4. They can repeat their phoney mantra all they want bec Howard

Dean is no Al Gore. I really believe one of the biggest mistakes Al Gore made in his campaign was allowing the repetition of lies about him. Saying he created the Internet etc. Al Gore should have challenged these thugs at every turn.

Do you think Howard Dean is going to allow these thugs to diss him without challenging them? I think not. HD is a "street fighter" and that's one reason that I am a supporter. The thugs will try to "McCain/Gore" him, but there will be retaliation. I am sure that Trippi/Dean have it all planned out.

[Jacobin]

5. Yep. Heard Brian Williams say it the other night

Holy Joe is undermining his minions efforts to discredit Dean by using confederate flags in his TV ads to tweak Dean. Which is it? Is he too liberal or too conservative?

I like him cause he regularly makes statemens which no one else (until of late) has the cajones to make criticizing Chimpster.

[Scott Lee]

19. Joe Lieberman is a bucket of sleaze

Ignore that geriatric crap-cake. He'll be out of this race before you can say Ariel Sharon.

[DrFunkenstein]

39. Actually, Dean And Sharon Are Old Buddies

In November, Dean paid his first-ever visit to Israel on an excursion that was organized and paid for by AIPAC. He was apparently unperturbed at his sponsors’ close ties to a government that engages in a pattern of gross and systematic human rights violations and blatantly violates a series of UN Security Council resolutions and other international legal principles. During his visit, Dean did not meet with any Palestinian leaders or any Israeli moderates.

Dean also appears to reject the widespread consensus among Israeli peace activists and Middle East scholars that Palestinian terrorism is a direct outgrowth of the 35-year Israeli military occupation. Instead, Dean seems to argue that terrorism itself is the core issue.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm

After meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Dean stated: “I do not think that as long as Yasser Arafat is president there will be peace." Before leaving, Sharon asked if Dean would support requests for new loan guarantees to Israel. Dean “promised him he would.”

http://www.aaiusa.org/countdown/c120602.htm

Dean's alignment with AIPAC and their right-wing politics goes much deeper. Last year, he named Steven Grossman, a former AIPAC head, as his campaign's chief fundraiser. Soon after, he flew to Israel on an AIPAC-sponsored junket.

In a major foreign policy speech earlier this year, Dean, while calling for an end to Palestinian violence, did not call for an end to Israeli violence, let alone an end to the illegal Israeli occupation.

Last December, Dean told the Jerusalem Post that he unequivocally supported $8 Billion in US loan guarantees for Israel. "I believe that by providing Israel with the loan guarantees...the US will be advancing its own interest," he said.

His unconditional support for the loan package, in addition to $4 Billion in outright grants, went further than even some of the most pro-Israel elements in the Bush administration, like Paul Wolfowitz, who wanted to at least include some vague restrictions like pushing Israel to curtail new settlements and accept a timetable to establish a Palestinian state.

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000119.html

Dean believes the Bush administration should be giving Israel $4 billion in military aid to fight terrorism, not the $1 billion it proposed last month.

Despite his opposition to the war, Dean received a warm welcome earlier this month at a Jewish gathering largely supportive of the war.

At a meet-and-greet session after the official festivities one night at the annual AIPAC policy conference, Dean spoke to a capacity crowd in a small room, shaking hands for several hours and progressing slowly to the exit, encircled by well-wishers.

"The only way to beat George Bush is to stand up to him, not to try and be like him,'' he said.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030418/us02.shtml

[IronLionZion]

54. The pro-Israel lobby is so powerful

that you can't win an election in the US without supporting Israel. Why else would they do it? Don't you think any sane politician would try to steer clear of the Middle East? I certainly would. We don't need all that hatred against us. How has helping Israel helped anybody?

And don't get me started on the Shabri and Shatila massacres.

[DrFunkenstein]

57. Pro-Israel = Pro-Sharon?

Mideast violence continues, Israel split over how to end it

JERUSALEM (AFP) - As the cycle of violence continued unabated in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, a row between the Israeli army and government over how to end it was growing deeper.

As the more than three-year-old cycle of violence showed no sign of letting up, Israel was embroiled in controversy over its policies towards the Palestinians.

Leaks of Israeli chief of staff Moshe Yaalon's recent criticism of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's uncompromising attitude towards the Palestinians have sparked a stormy debate in political and military circles.

But former Labour leader Amram Mitzna expressed his support for Yaalon, saying: "He was pointing to the fact that, without any political prospects, the Israeli army's operations in the territories do not bring security."

Mitzna is one of the leading doves who drafted an unofficial peace plan -- the so-called Geneva initiative -- with Palestinian politicians and intellectuals.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031030/wl_afp/mideast_031030212622

[IronLionZion]

59. Yeah, I agree with you

Sharon is not Israel. Someone should have the balls to protect the Israeli people from terror and hatred by simply freeing the Palestinians. The only plausible explanation for keeping Palestine is to use it as a buffer against invasion, or the fascist Likud party is too arrogant.

The dream team would have been Ehud Barak and Mahmood Abbas, then there would be peace with the two separate states.

[Skwmom]

6. The Bush MO

I think many could argue that this has also been the MO of the Dean campaign. Dean is a straight-shooter, Dean has been consistently anti-war, Dean is electable, etc. When the truth does come out the Democratic party is going to have a lot of disillusioned voters on its hands.

[Stevendsmith]

8. Okay, I give up

What is the "truth" about Dean?

[TLM]

11. The only truth is that Dean

is beating the candidate Skwmom wants to win. So everything good about Dean is a lie and everything bad is fact.

[TLM]

12. dupe

delete please

[ACPS65]

13. Dean standing opposite George Bush

Sorry, doesn't look that electable to me.

[newyawker99]

48. Hi ACPS65!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[RetroLounge]

62. Yes, the Dean campaign would be better served

by saying Dean is a NOT a straight-shooter, Dean has been INconsistently anti-war, Dean is NOT electable.

You that'll work...

[Cocoa]

7. I haven't seen that yet

any examples?

[Stevendsmith]

10. You're Probably Not A Masocist Like I Am

You see, I have this problem in which I watch cable "news", where the Dean is a radical leftist spin can be heard on a nightly basis.

[Cocoa]

16. I watch cable news a lot too

I haven't seen what you're saying. To me, it seems they're enthusiastic about Dean being the front runner.

[CWebster]

14. This war is a losing proposition

It is ripe for the candidate who opposed it from the start.

[Scott Lee]

17. Wait - I thought Dean wasn't even a "liberal"?

This is all so confusing. Tomorrow I expect to read on DU or the general media that he is an alien pod person sent to prime earth for Tau Ceti colonization.

Oy.

[NewJeffCT]

21. He'll be portrayed as a liberal

For signing the gay marriage law. That will be push-polled all over the South with him being portrayed as a Yankee liberal threatening to send gay married couples to teach their children in all the schools or something like that.

[Cocoa]

25. gay marriage

No doubt, the media will play that up big time. They're awful quiet about it now, it seems to me, I can't remember the last time I heard it even mentioned. They must be waiting until ater the primaries, then it'll be all gay marriage all the time. Get ready to get reacquainted with Bill Bennett and Dr. Laura.

[mrgorth]

33. They all support civil unions at this point.

.

[JohnKleeb]

34. Actually Kucinich is for gay marriage

as seen at Rock the Vote.

[NewJeffCT]

45. Yes, but

Dean was the one that actually signed the bill into law in VT. He will be portrayed as the point person in the decline of American values.

[no name no slogan]

70. signed Civil Unions under duress

Actually, Dean signed the Civil Unions bill into law after the state Supreme Court made him do it. He also doesn't favor a national law granting marriage rights to GLBT folk, but prefers to leave that up to the states.

[NewJeffCT]

71. Do you think

that Karl Rove will care that the VT Supreme Court made him do it? Dean will be pigeonholed as the root of all evil in push polls in every swing state... they will show pictures of him signing the bill into law, with no sound needed.

[Bertrand]

23. It's pretty simple

Dean created the appearance of being a progressive for the Democratic primary, and the mainstream media picked up on that impression since he has risen based on his outspokeness on the buildup to the iraqi war and has been successful in fundraising because of it.

[CWebster]

26. He is who is

Others spin it for their own ends.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

31. He opposed the war from the start

which is a very liberal position in anyone's eyes.
You say that's a winning position but most Americans disagree with that stance as the polls show, regardless of how badly it is going now.

[mrgorth]

37. And switching positions is better?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

44. good question- seems like Dean did indeed do that

I can't keep track of what he said when. I do know, (and this is the important part) that he said he would have voted 'NO' on IWR.

[mrgorth]

47. No moving to other issues

you say Dean is doomed because he was against the war from the start. This is like the civil unions thing. Its irrelevant. They all support CUs and will get slammed because of it. Yes, Rove would use the war against Dean but he'd use the war against Kerry, the $87 billion against Edwards, the war against Clark, and if, magically, it was Gep he'd say "he voted for the same stuff I did. Why change?" and he'd have a point. Dean isn't perfect and can be beaten but all of them have that problem. Rove will be tough no matter what. Peace.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

65. How can Rove use the war against Kerry?

No. 1, It was Bush's war, not Kerry's. Kerry supported action against Saddam but that was all. Support for Bush did not translate into any specific action. Although Kerry essentially said before the vote 'be careful'.

No. 2, No matter what happens or how it is resolved, how can Kerry be criticised by Bush?, Kerry did what most Americans would have wanted, which is to support the President in an action ostensibly for the good of the nation's security.

[janx]

36. They are doing this because they don't want him to run against

Bush. At least the right-wing is. So they construct him as a crazy fringe type in hopes that he won't get the nomination.

Clearly, it isn't working.

And there's no way it will work if he does get the nomination, because that's the time he will start his overall appeal to the nation.

Don't worry about it. People who are involved in primary politics can see through it--or they should.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mrgorth]

41. Even though that's not me

I apologize on behalf of all Deaniacs for that post. It's wrong. I DO consider John Kerry to be an honorable man and I would be proud to have him as my president.

[Scott Lee]

42. It's no lie that Kerry is a Beltway Insider and BushWar Enabler

I would balk at "corrupt", because I've seen no true corruption coming from him. But you cannot deny that your boy was one who helped hand the reigns of war over to the Smirking Chimp (and breathed a sigh of relief that he successfully abdicated his congressional responsibility). That sure qualifies him for Bush enabler.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but let's just say that the incessant bleating the Deanophobes do about the confederate flag non issue gets them some of the same. What goes 'round comes 'round.

[Bertrand]

49. By your logic, isnt Dean a BushWar Enabler Too?

After all, he supported Biden-Lugar and said:

"as I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/02/20/dean/index2.html

[SahaleArm]

64. He would waffle back...

saying he was against the Biden-Lugar IWR; Of course one has that luxary as Governor of Vermont where the toughest decision was whether to give IBM another environmental awards.

[jeter]

40. This is a dangerous strategy for the GOP

Because if people think that Dean is not some crazy liberal, they won't believe anything else the GOP says. This is what happened in 1980 with Reagan. The Democrats were trying to paint Reagan as this crazy right winger (not all together a lie) and when he appeared normal during the debates, his numbers shot up 10 points.

[DrFunkenstein]

51. Not So Dangerous When They've Got Miles Of Footage

Of Dean saying, uh, unfortunate things and looking extremely unstable while saying them.

Want a sneak peek?

http://www.gop.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/TLvideo2.htm

[DrFunkenstein]

43. So Much For Teflon - Dean Is A Polarizing Radical

It doesn't matter that his record is centrist, he's campaigned on an angry "us vs. them" platform. If you go through the records of newswire photos, it is almost impossible to find a picture where he doesn't look pissed (unless he has that awkward smile that seems unnatural on his face).

If you look at the numbers, Dean inevitably comes up worst in head to head contests against Bush. People around here think Dean's anger is a positive, but it plays right into Bush's hands. Although he's been the frontrunner since September, he is still acting like a politcal attack dog rather than a future President. For the Bush haters around here, that's fine, but the American people have never voted for an attack dog, especially an anti-war attack dog.

---------------------------------------

In a Bush-Dean race, the contest would likely hinge on three semantic differences. The way the electorate defines the gay marriage, tax-cut and Iraq issues will spell victory or defeat for the candidates.

Dean will insist that he does not support gay marriage but only the limited concept of civil unions. Bush will say that if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck. Bush will characterize the Dean bill as a gay marriage act and will challenge Dean to approve of the Defense of Marriage Bill that prohibits homosexual marriage.

The former Vermont governor has also proposed repealing most if not all of Bush's tax cuts. Again, polls indicate that Americans break about 50-50 on this issue. But Bush will say that Dean wants to raise taxes - a 2-to-1 no-no in public-opinion polls.

Early media is the answer. As soon as the Democratic candidate is chosen, before he has time to reload his depleted coffers, Bush must strike aggressively and characterize the issues in his own light and cast them to his advantage...He could win the election in a spring offensive.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102322,00.html

Honestly, I am surprised that the GOP let Dickie out of the bottle with this one. So far, they've been maintaining radio silence, trying not to spook the Democrats before it's too late.

In any case, here's an article on the anti-gay backlash brewing:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0332/goldstein.php

Here's an article by Krugman arguing that full repeal of the cuts is a political loser:

http://truthout.org/docs_03/101803I.shtml

And here's a quick preview of what $200 million in ads will look like, only a thousand times nastier, 24-7 throughout 2004:

http://www.gop.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/TLvideo2.htm

But at least we can trust Dean to keep his cool during the debates...

[blm]

50. Dean's teflon granted by the media always had an expiration date.

As soon as they felt assured he'd be the nominee, then they strip it off Dean and put it back on Bush. The problem with all that teflon was that Dean examined closely doesn't hold up as well under greater scrutiny. He's changed positions on some issues, and doesn't handle being challenged on those positions.

Check out all the PR they're giving Bush on the economy, and all the "good" things that are happening in Iraq. CNN and MSNBC are hanging right in there with FOX.

[pruner]

46. Dean represents the far left/right McGovern/Wallace wing of the Dem party

:eyes:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

53. What a totally idiotic comment.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrFunkenstein]

58. I Think He Meant Your Point, Smart Person

:think:

[Ksec]

63. WHY DONT WE SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE

We could be as powerful as we think they are. We dont own media but we buy products they rely on. Something like that gets a whole bunch of attention.

[Lorien]

69. That should and hopefully will happen

AFTER the primaries. What's happening here is actually a pretty normal, healthy part of the process.

[Cleita]

66. I don't see anything wrong with being a radical leftist.

As a matter-of-fact we should embrace it as a contrast to being a jackboot stomping greedy, racist, corporate fascist. Leftists champion clean air and water. They believe all children should have an equal opportunity to flower into the adults they could become and thereby return their gifts for the betterment of society. They believe the sick should be cared for and the elderly spend their last years in comfort and peace. They believe a worker should be adequately compensated for his labors. I embrace being a liberal and if they want to paint Dean that way, I think it will help him immensely.