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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:16 PM
Original message
Kudos to Dean on his Union endorsements....
I know they are both probably coming next week but at this point both are foregone conclusions based on what I saw and read today. And he deserves credit for this, mostly because the positioning of the endorsement didn't seem to be set up as a "Dean vs. other dem candidates" and was mostly focused on Dean vs. Bush. This cuts to the heart of any of the positioning of Bush as being for the working man. And the ethnic diversity of this particular union is also heartening.

I have my issues with Dean and I have even more issues with many of his supporters, both of which I'm confident will fall by the wayside if he wins the nomination. But credit is due where credit is due and these endoresements this early in the game are a good thing for Dems. Especially after the relatively lackluster Gore union support in 2000.

I'm sure I'll continue to have my Dean complaints before our nominee is chosen, just as I will with all the other candidates. But when something happens this otherwise depressing primary season that makes me feel good rather than bad....well then I feel it's important I express that since I tend be cynical and negative far too often even for my own taste.
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StoneCold69 Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah good for Dean,
I like Dean, but he'll never beat the Chimp, unfortunately. I'm just being a realist. It's simply not gonna happen. He won't carry any of the southern states. The redneck population likes the current idiot and chief too much.
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Dean is going to choose
Graham as his running mate, and this will help him TONS in the South
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michaelbmoore Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. You're Right!
There's just no way he will. I was in a non-partisan group of students for RTV and the reaction among everyone about Dean was amazement and laughter. They just gave him no respect and shook their heads. The Dean supporters (both of them) didn't help their cause. Very shrill, and they were the 4 years of college crammed into 7 years of enrollment kind of students, and that just doesn't fly well down here. 200K rabid supporters may win a nomination, but there is no way he will win the general election without major charm school time. My wife, who is a physician and not tuned into politics walked in when Dean was speaking on the TV three weeks ago and said, "is that guy a doctor" and I explained who he was. She said, "He'll never be elected." I asked why? She said "Not all, but most people don't want to be preached to."

Thanks

Mike

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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I've unfortunately found the same reaction.....
I've talked to a lot of friends and family who are average joe centrists, and if anything are a little more liberal than anything. They're just not rabidly political is all.

And every one of them is always cracking jokes about Dean and laughing at him. These are people who don't like Bush and would still probably vote for Dean just to be anti-Bush, but don't we ultimately need a little more than that?

I'm not saying they are any more enthused about any other candidates, they just particularly enjoy mocking Dean.
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ferg Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Dean doesn't need the South
Gore didn't carry any Southern state, either.

Dean would need to pick up NH and AZ and keep the Gore states.

WV and OH and NV would also be reasonable pickups for Dean.

The fact is, no Democratic candidate is going to carry the South. Maybe Clark could get AR. But that's it. There's no point worrying about "the South" when "the South" really only means picking one smallish state.
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haymaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Give us something besides bullshit
will ya pal. I don't give a flying fuck about your gut feelings. You look like just another in a long, long line of Dean bashing disruptors.

Now either give us something substantial or exit stage left.
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michaelbmoore Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kudos for Dean
I agree, Dean deserves a lot of credit for the endorsements even though I also "have my issues with Dean and I have even more issues with many of his supporters." Congrats to the Dean supporters.
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karlspur Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. What has Dean done exactly to be percieved as "pro-union"
Why not Kerry, Gephardt, and Kucinich get these endorsements? :shrug:
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's sort of beside the point.....
The fact is that these particular unions looked at all the candidates and perceived him to be the best of the crop, particularly with regard to beating Bush.

I actually think of the (IMHO) top tier candidates (Kerry, Edwards, Dean, even Gephardt)Dean is going to have the hardest time in a general election against Bush. But these 2 unions don't think so and as a big part of the democratic base/constituency I take their word to mean a lot.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. This, exactly.
The AFL-CIO honored former Gov. Howard Dean in January for his support of the successful effort by AFT Healthcare to unionize nurses at Vermont's largest hospital. Dean was one of two recipients of the inaugural Sen. Paul Wellstone Award.

Dean, who is a contender for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination, strongly endorsed the campaign by registered nurses to form a union at Fletcher Allen Health Care in Burlington. He urged the hospital to honor the employees' choice regarding a union.

"Gov. Dean went so far as to say that if he 'were a nurse, would vote to unionize,'" noted Roy Vestrich, president of the AFT's state federation, the United Professions of Vermont. "These would have been powerful words from any governor, but they resonated even deeper coming from a governor who is also an M.D. and familiar with the day-to-day lives of nurses and other health practitioners."


http://www.aft.org/publications/american_teacher/apr03/...
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karlspur Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. He is a doctor
Of course he would unionize nurses but why is he more deserving then people who have a much larger pro-union track record then Dean?
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. You saw right through it!
Yeah, those AFL-CIO idiots were duped by Dean, giving him the Paul Wellstone award like that. What a bunch of suckers!
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karlspur Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. You twisted my comments around
Gep has a much longer pro-union track record then Dean, all he did was unionize nurses but he gets an endorsment but Gep gets left out in the cold.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Yep
You asked what he did to get union support. I posted it. It's their choice, I don't see why you have to be suspicious of them just because you don't like the guy they endorse.
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Yes but Gephardt and Kerry supported the Iraq war and many of these
union members did not - and a member's support for the war was one of the questions posed in AFSMCE's presidential straw poll. We were also asked what was most important to us in a candidate, adherence on issues or electability. I think this is where DK may have suffered.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. They based their support on medical plans that could pass and were
the best overall. They carefully examined/interviewed each candidate.
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michaelbmoore Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I believe he has really worked their grassroots. . .
Starting last spring. I think he really worked hard for it.

--Mike
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karlspur Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I see
So he basically bribed them for their endorsement.
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. bribed them?
anybody who wants a union endorsement needs to work hard for it and it doesn't mean bribing, it means meeting with union leaders and their members and allowing them to get to know you and understand your positions. Do you think Kerry bribed the firefighters or that Gep bribed his union supporters into supporting them?
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. And also
to understand them. Just thought I'd add.
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karlspur Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No
Gep has a long pro-union track record, all Howard Dean did was unionize nurses yet he gets their endorsement but Gep gets left out in the cold.
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. as far as bribing
you really should give something to back that kind of assertion up. Otherwise you just sound like a sore loser.
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haymaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Man, get a grip on yourself.
Are you listening to what you are saying? (Reading what you are writing)

You are doing NOTHING but bashing. Without fact. Without merit. Without a clue.

Who is the guy, or girl (which I seriously doubt, because unless I miss my guess you wouldn't vote for a woman even if it was your mother) that you support. And feel free to say Bush, cause I don't care either way.

10 to 1 says you won't reply.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. "bribed them"? What kind of fiddle faddle
and Rot is that? Why do you use negative spin words for an accomplishment by a Democrat?
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. He actively backed the nurses in VT unionizing
That's pretty pro-union if you ask me.

That's what he's DONE.

What he talks about doing as President is amending WTO and NAFTA to "globalize" labor rights, environmental rights, etc. And that will go a long way toward stopping our biggest current export -- jobs.

Eloriel
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't know about you guys
but it seems to me a bunch of the Clarkettes got them some shiny new DU screen names. LOL

It's funny. Really, it is.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. wink wink, nudge nudge...
;)
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean will blow away the Boy King.
Don't you forget it. Clark folks have a good man at this point.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Yeah, it must be the 1000+ posts that gave it away.....
Honestly just when I think I've read it all.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Even more intriguing
There's a LarKspur and a KarLspur.

I wonder if anyone is playing both sides of the fence here?
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