Question for DUers of color...

[JackRiddler]

Well, as a white guy (not to mention as a secular Northern internationalist who doesn't normally wave any flag) I'm wondering...

What do you think about the Dean statement?

(While you're at it, tell us why, and maybe a little bit about where you come from and what your experience of that flag is...)

THANK YOU.

[screwfacecapone]

1. sort of offensive

I found it slightly offensive, but he apologized for it, and thats what counts, unlike *cough* hack Trent lott and Rush Limbaugh. The hopelessly nieve part of me hopes he didn't mean to be offensive to blacks.

[_Jumper_]

2. His apology was as fake as Lott and Rush's

The difference is that we know Dean isn't a bigot. I was dissapointed to see him publicly declare he wanted the votes of those that display a racist symbol, though.

[Lars39]

30. Is it possible.....

and pardon me if I can't find the right words-----but is it possible that Dean was saying in essence, "look, I even want to help the ones who are too stupid/brainwashed to realise they're voting against their own best interests, we've got to look out for the people we don't even respect, because it's the right thing to do" ?
And he reeeallly used a controvery-laden example to say it? When I first read his statement, I thought he meant it as an insult to the redneck. :shrug:

[mbali]

38. If that's what he meant

that's what he should have said.

Frankly, I'm pretty tired of Dean apologists telling us "what Gov. Dean really meant was" or "Dr. Dean was trying to say," etc. Howard Dean is a grown-ass man with a substantial education and perfectly good speaking skills. I have no doubt that he can articulate his thoughts quite well. It is extremely annoying to have people constantly try to spin his words and try to convince us that he didn't really say something he said and that he really meant to say something he didn't. He should be held accountable for what he says, not what his supporters WISH he had said.

Dean didn't say any of the things you suggest he meant. He said that he wanted to be against the candidate of confederate flag wavers. Whether he meant it that way, that was insulting to those of us in the party who find such people to be reprehensible. Their interests are antithetical to those of many of us in the Democratic Party base, particularly to African Americans. What made it worse is that he refuses to acknowledge that this attitude is offensive - instead, he treats us as if we are just to sensitive or ignorant to understand what he REALLY meant.

African Americans have developed extremely good radar and are at least as good at understanding nuance and subtlety as Dean's supporters are. We undertstood him perfectly well and don't need his words interpreted for us.

None of us can read Howard Dean's mind but we all know what came out of his mouth. And what came out of his mouth was offensive and only compounded by his and his supporters attempts to spin it into something else only further insulted the very people he claims to be so down with.

Dean has shown me that, regardless of his intentions - which I'm sure are quite good - he is NOT equipped to lead any serious dialogue on race.

[rini]

16. I thought her was

offensive to Southerners. Typical Yankee who thinks all of us are rednecked idiots married to our first cousins. Who cares about that stupid flag anyway.

[xultar]

3. I think it is a non issue....The CF Frightens me to death...

I think it is a non issue for the 2004 Elections cuz there are so many other things we need to be concerned about.
Yes, we do need the CF wavin, red-neck bubbas from hickory to vote Dem. Are they? No. Were they ever gonna vote for a Dem. No. Will they NO. They already have representation from the Repugs...they are just too stupid to know that they could give a shit about poor white people. Plus they were never gonna vote Dem cuz they are Pro-War and want to bomb the Muslims off the face of the earth.

Why cus the party is already linked to people of colour.

Dean is not a racist or bigot. Dean was however, trying to be politcally smart and suave and he opend his pie hole and got himself into trouble. There are certain things that should be left unsaid especially where race is concerned. If he wants to represent the CF wavin people. That is fine with me. He won't, however, represent me nor will he have my support.

The CF as always been frightening to me. I live in the south and when I see someone with that symbol on their house, car, or body tattoo I know to stay away. Pure and simple.

[GinaMaria]

50. some use the CF

to scare you to death, that's their intention. Wish I could take that feeling away for you :-(

Peace, uultar

[atreides1]

4. My Take

First off I'm multi-racial, I personally consider the confederate flag to be a historical banner for the CSA.

If, as some have indicated the Stars and Bars represent slavery and racism, then what do the Stars and Stripes represent.

Lets go to a time after the Revolution when our founding fathers declared that all "Men are created Equal", unless you were black.
How about when the young United States tried in vain to conquer Canada
and lost.

Maybe to the Native Americans who saw the flag of a new country, leading a cavalry charge at places like Sand Creek or Wounded Knee.

Or when the Stars and Stripes were raised over Iolani Palace as the
United States illegally took over a sovereign nation by force, mainly
because the US Representative didn't like the fact that whites were
being ruled over by people of color.

If the Stars and Bars are truly a reminder of slavery and racism, then the Stars and Stripes represent a history of conquest, racism, slavery, genocide, and the theft of property and resources. All based on the premise that whites were superior to people of color.

What do you think.

My suggestion is that we get off this confederate flag crap, and start
concentrating on the real issues. If any of the challengers win they will have to be President to all Americans, not just the ones who agree with their policies, like the current brainless idiot, but all
of us.

Whether you're from the Georgia, Vermont, Iowa, Michigan, California,
or my own home of Hawaii, we all should be able to agree that we need a leader for all Americans.

[whitestar]

8. "My Take Too"

atreides1,

so well put... My question would be, has there ever been a time in American history that what you want is true? A President to all Americans, IMO, is impossible at this point in time. It would have to be a half baked, true as can be, all world, asshole.... to please everyone. And maybe mauve in color.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

35. I ditto to your response .

Staying on the flag issue is wasting time when we could be talking about something else more important .

[sangh0]

5. I'm white. My family is multi-racial

and IMO I'm qualified to describe their opinion because I'm the one they ask when they want to know what their opinion is.

They think it was a politically unwise statement that could contribute to the perception that Dean is a bit of a loose canoon, but it was not a racist statement.

[ulysses]

6. ?

and IMO I'm qualified to describe their opinion because I'm the one they ask when they want to know what their opinion is.

Huh?

[qanda]

22. Got me on that one too.

HUH? :shrug:

[CWebster]

25. Really

What?

[greyl]

32. Married folks have families, right? nt

[CWebster]

33. And they have to check with the master

for what and how to think?

Is that what it said? Can't be.

[greyl]

34. I thought that part was a joke...

but that their family really was multi-racial. Had to be. right? :)

[sangh0]

51. And the answer is

simply that my family knows how knowledgeable (and obsessed) I am on the subject of politics, and they often come to me to discuss politics. Though their knowledge is usually not as detailed as mine, their political leanings are similar to mine, and they are biased towards my descriptions of current events. When they come to me with questions on issues, 99% of the time, they leave agreeing with me.

[Forkboy]

36. Listen bud

when we want your opinion we'll give it to you :)

[sangh0]

52. Mom???

I thought I told you stay in the basement and keep quiet!!

[GumboYaYa]

7. I invited a friend who is a columnist for

the Post Dispatch and is also African-American to the Dean Meetup last night. We discussed this issue in depth. His opinion: he is glad Dean is talking about racial issues and he doesn't think Dean should back down in the face of criticism. One common theme in my friend's writing is that white Americans want to play ostrich and act like racism is cured. People get offended when you talk about it. He says good let them be offended, but at least Dean isn't scared of talking about the divisive race issues in the country.

[1songbird]

9. I will admit that I have some issues with the flag

As a black woman that grew up in the rural south, AL specifically, I've seen the flag used as a form of intimidation and hatred. These good old boys with confederate flags on their trucks and cars would drive past us kids and yell the most hateful words that you'd ever hear. I have never forgotten and I never will.

Having lived in a segregated area where literally a lake separated the black and white neighborhoods perhaps my perspective is different.
I remember when Al was courting Mercedes Benz for their SUV plant and Gov. Jim Folsom removed the flag from the state house. Once Mercedes accepted Al's bid they attributed their decision to the removal of the flag and thanked the Gov. for his courage and wisdom.

Well inspite of the fact that Gov Folsom brought this great co. to Al, the good citizens voted him out the next election over the freakin flag.

Since becoming a DUer and listening to the debate about Dean's comments, I'm starting to question my beliefs about the people that waive the flag. Maybe I'm too sensitive based on past hurts.

I think Dean was trying to reach out to a constituent of southerners that sometime sacrifice their own good over ideology (Gov Folsom). I'm a Clark supporter but if I were a Dean supporter I don't think I would hold his comments against him.

[JackRiddler]

10. kick

k

[Hep]

11. Thanks for this topic

We had an african american gentleman speak about how deeply affected he was by Dean's comments. He was impressed with Dean's coming out and apologizing for hurting people. He says that Dean chose the wrong image, but his message was right on.

[JackRiddler]

12. I'm really curious

Any more responses?

[Tatiana]

13. Dean's mind and heart was in the right place.

But his foot was in his mouth.

I don't think his statement meant that he wanted the votes of racists. I think he just meant that as a candidate, he wanted to represent people from all backgrounds, classes and interests.

I was raised in Chicago, but born in Texas. I have family in Arkansas and Mississippi and I can say that the flag is a slap in the face to most of my relatives. I don't know any black person that sees the Confederate flag as a source of proud heritage. The people who see the flag as a source of pride and heritage are mostly white. I was discussing this issue with a gay worker of mine (who likes Dean, btw). He told me he was disappointed in Dean's words and gave me an analogy:

He said he once had a roommate in college that was a big fan of the rapper Eminem. Eminem has many songs with lyrics that are derogatory to gay people. He said he tried not to make a big issue of the roommate (who was an otherwise affable guy) playing the songs, but after hearing one particularly vulgar and violent song
("My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge/That'll stab you in the head/whether you're a fag or lez/Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest/Pants or dress - hate fags? The answer's "yes" Homophobic? Nah, you're just heterophobic..."), he told the roommate that he didn't want to hear that $hit ever again, or he would request to be moved. His roommate apologized and said he didn't mean to offend him. The next day, all of his Eminem posters had been taken down.

My co-worker told me that the roommate relayed to him that he had taken the posters down not because he no longer liked Eminem, but because he realized that what the posters represented was a source of pain for Dan (my co-worker).

That's sort of how I feel. I hate that flag with a passion!

We need the votes of those Confederate flag waving Southerners, no doubt. But at the same time, I feel that it is wrong to sanction that behavior and I believe, in some respect, Dean's comments seemed to say that it was OK to wave that flag with pride. Ask the descendants of sharecroppers and slaves if they want to wave that flag with pride. My great-grandmother worked on a plantation picking cotton as a young girl from sun up until sun down and later sharecropped before earning enough to purchase her own land. When I drive down south every summer and I see that flag, I have a knee-jerk reaction of wanting to scream with rage and cry out of sorrow for the Southern economy that was built on the backs of black slave labor. That flag is an old Civil War relic which was flown with pride by supporters of SLAVERY.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. - From the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. - From A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

The Presidential election of 1852 resulted in the total overthrow of the advocates of restriction and their party friends. Immediately after this result the anti-slavery portion of the defeated party resolved to unite all the elements in the North opposed to slavery an to stake their future political fortunes upon their hostility to slavery everywhere. This is the party two whom the people of the North have committed the Government. They raised their standard in 1856 and were barely defeated. They entered the Presidential contest again in 1860 and succeeded.

The prohibition of slavery in the Territories, hostility to it everywhere, the equality of the black and white races, disregard of all constitutional guarantees in its favor, were boldly proclaimed by its leaders and applauded by its followers.

With these principles on their banners and these utterances on their lips the majority of the people of the North demand that we shall receive them as our rulers. - From Georgia's Declaration of Secession

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them? - From A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union

Read those words. That's what that flag represents to me. And it does bother me that someone wants the votes of people who fly that representation everyday outside their homes and in their courthouses. That being said, I don't think Dean really understood the dynamics of the emotions surrounding the flag issue and, not being from that geographical region, didn't have the charisma or wherewithal to address the situation by placating both flag-wavers and flag-haters like Clinton did.

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/plat.html

[Julien Sorel]

15. I was going to forget about this issue, but your

post so perfectly expressed my opinion that I'm going to chime in. My family on my father's side were sharecroppers as far back as anyone knows; before that they were slaves. Except for stints in the military, they never left Mississippi until my father did, when he was discharged after serving in Korea. Segregation stunted and ultimately destroyed my father and my uncles, who were all extremely intelligent people who never received a real education, and that flag is the symbol of segregation and racism in this country: there is essentially no other. Dean's fuckup and this whole issue dredged up memories I had buried, and now I have to deal with putting them to rest again. There is no way I am alone in that. It infuriates me that these Wonder Bread white people keep saying how it's a non-issue. They have no idea.

[Tatiana]

19. Ditto.

Dean's fuckup and this whole issue dredged up memories I had buried, and now I have to deal with putting them to rest again. There is no way I am alone in that. It infuriates me that these Wonder Bread white people keep saying how it's a non-issue. They have no idea.

It's like Dean's carelessness with words has opened up those old wounds, though I'm not sure those wounds will ever be healed until the majority of southerners realize that flag needs to be taken down. It's not a non-issue. It's a right-wrong issue. There is nothing positive about the Confederate flag.

Nothing.

[RetroLounge]

44. Wonder Bread white people ????

and this isn't offensive?

Pardon me while I restrain myself and not break DU rules.

&^%$ You!

[KaraokeKarlton]

21. You know what really sucks about this whole issue?

The battle flag had nothing to do with slavery or oppression at all. The stars and bars looked too much like the Union flag. On the battlefield, both sides were confusing their own men for the enemy and it was causing deaths from friendly fire. Some military guy saw the Cross of St. Andrews Banner and decided to use that as the battle flag because it didn't look at all like the Union flag. The battle flag came to be because ther was a need for some battlefield safety. Let's not forget that the Confederate soldiers weren't slave owners. They were pretty much victims of those same plantation running slave owners because it wasn't anything the poor guys were doing that brought about the war. Put yourself in the shoes of those poor southern pee-ons. A war was being brought to their homes. What were they going to do? They had wives, kids, mothers, homes...of course they fought. They weren't fighting for slavery, they were fighting for survival of them and theirs. The battle flag is a very important symbol to the families whose relative fought and died in that war. It's unfair to the memory of those poor pee-ons who did NOTHING wrong to deny them their heritage and commemoration of the bravery and sacrifice of their relatives. You just can't take that from those people.

The real problem began when a few REAL racists (those are actually few and far between) who opposed the Civil Rights Movement and saw an opportunity to fool others into joining their cause by opening that old wound and resentment about the north forcing their will upon the south. Those few bigots wrapped themselves in the battle flag and by the time everyone figured out what they were up to, the battle flag had already been tarnished and hijacked. So here we are, having this debate. Should we be? I don't think so. I think what we all need to do (southern blacks and whites especially!) is to take the damn Rebel flag AWAY from the likes of the KKK and educate people about what it really stands for, or at least DID prior to it's hijacking. The NAACP needs to play a part in this too because part of the problem is that they aren't talking enough about what the flag means to a lot of the white people in the south. That's just as divisive and misleading, in my opinion, as what the actual racists have done. We need to be more saavy than that. There is NO doubt in my mind that blacks are genuinely offended by the Rebel flag. There is also NO doubt in my mind that it's mostly what they feel the flag represents that is the source of the offensiveness. The solutions is perhaps to work together to re-define the battle flag to represent what it originally did...respect and recognition for the poor NON-slave owning whites who were just as much victims of those slave owners as the slaves were. These two voting constituencies have a hell of a lot more in common than they realize.

There's my 2 cents.

[Tatiana]

29. Excellent post.

The battle flag is a very important symbol to the families whose relative fought and died in that war. It's unfair to the memory of those poor pee-ons who did NOTHING wrong to deny them their heritage and commemoration of the bravery and sacrifice of their relatives. You just can't take that from those people.

The war was unjust. The reason for the war was the South's right to own slaves and their anger over the North not returning their fugitive "property." I'm sorry, I just don't see anything brave or noble about fighting for the right to buy, sell, and trade my ancestors as property. The "poor pee-ons" were brainwashed, to be sure, but that doesn't excuse or legitimize their behavior.

I don't care if the flag was black, red, and green... I would still hate it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

48. Well, what would you do if an army was coming to your town with guns?

Would you just sit there and wait for your home to be burned and your family to be harmed? I know I wouldn't. I'd be fighting too, regardless of who started it or why.

I despise racism, prejudice, bias and bigotry...as well everyone should. Here's the point I'm trying to make...this issue is causing genuine suffering for BOTH blacks and the relatives of those non-slave owning poor whites who died doing nothing more than trying to protect their homes and families. Just as those slave owners manipulated the situation way back then, the KKK and other hate groups have been allowed to manipulate things too. I'm thinking that there is a serious lack of sensitivity to the feelings of everyone with a strong opinion of the battle flag, whether they hate it or love it.

The only way to put an end to racism and bigotry is to talk about it and for those with bias against other races to make the effort to get to know each other and try to understand each other. The battle flag issue is just one of many issues that BOTH sides use as an excuse to avoid that necessary dialogue. But that's the easy thing to do because as long as everyone has an excuse to avoid each other, no one has to have the difficult discussions. Whites and blacks are equally responsible for that avoidance and it really needs to be overcome if the problems are to ever be addressed. We're all in this together, and black, white, brown, yellow, etc...in the end we're all members of the SAME race...the HUMAN race. Bush is BAD for the Human Race and rather than use that flag to avoid talking to each other we need to work together to get the miserable bum out of power.

[incapsulated]

14. What Tatiana said :)

She stated my own general opinion quite eloquently, so I will just say: "Ditto"! :) (I'm also rather exhausted by this topic.)

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Didn't bother me.

I don't think much of that flag, so no apology was necessary, imo. If the proud and ignorant whiteys want to fly that flag in their pickup trucks, let them. If everyone ignore them, they'll go away.

[Tatiana]

23. We've ignored it for decades.

They haven't gone away. In fact the "proud and ignorant whiteys," as you call them are only raising their children and their children's children to appreciate and revere a symbol of slavery.

Some issues have to be confronted and dealt with in order for them to be resolved and "go away." I think, perhaps, this is one.

[RapidCreek]

41. Worse yet

They're raising them to rationalize it.

RC

[RapidCreek]

40. Yea?

I'm sure it'd be easy to ignore if you were tied to the bumper of that truck being dragged down an asphalt road. Yep we should have ignored Hitler too....he'd of just gone away.

RC

[Cleita]

18. He knows where he is coming from because I have known

those same people that he talks about. I say people because those guys do have wives and girlfriends who feel the same way they do. I think he should have stopped short of mentioning the confederate flag though, not because I think he offended that demographic but because he would and did offend a different demographic.

[qanda]

20. I don't care!

I just wish we could stop being so petty and come up with some solutions to the problems facing our country. If all we have to do is scrutinize each word that comes out of the mouths of each candidate we are going to get no where and we'll be there faster than you can say, we've lost the 2004 elections.

[Tatiana]

24. I question whether or not we are being "petty."

At first, I thought it was silly. And I do think some of the candidates took some unfair shots at Dean because of his gaffe.

However, once I thought about it, I realized that I DID honestly care about the issue. I was ignoring my discomfort and anger with respect to the Confederate flag because I didn't want to address the fact that Dean (someone I like and respect) courted and gave tacit support to people waving a symbol of slavery. Cognitive dissonance at work, in my opinion.

[qanda]

27. It's not just this one issue.

It seems like every time I turn around we are discussing some minor, petty issue. I think taking something that is not new (Dean mentioned this same sentiment way before last week) and making it a way to score points against the "frontrunner" is not using the little bit of time we have to get our messge out wisely. By the way, I am not a Dean supporter.

[mbali]

39. The issue may be minor to YOU

but, as evidenced by the beautifully eloquent posts by several DUers, it should be obvious that it is not a minor or petty issue to many people.

To dismiss it as a political tactic is insulting to those who feel strongly about this issue. It also helps to illustrate why some people feel that Dean and his supporters (although you claim not to be one) are shallow and clueless when it comes to the complicated issue of race.

It seems that most of these folks have totally missed the irony of chasing around after and proclaiming such great concern about the needs of a bunch of bigots who have shown no interest in supporting Democrats while telling the loyal African American base to just shut up and get over whatever it is that's bothering us.

[FrenchieCat]

26. I was offended with both the CF and the AA attitude

I am biracial as well, and was offended by both the FC and the AA issues. It shows, not that Dean is a racist, but that he is insensitive to the plight of minorities. When the young black man at the debate told Dean that he was offended, Dean didn't address the issues the young man nor the black plight, although he was presented with the perfect opportunity to do some repair. Instead he was defensive about "his" statement and appeared to run off his rehearsed answer and started rattling off MLK quotes....Which I thought was tacky and opportunistic.

He should have been much more thoughtful, carign, humble and open minded. In addition, the apology was not given until it look like the whole episode was going to blow up in his face.....and it seemed forced....again, not a good sign for me.

I take the same offense on the Affirmative Action issue. Him thinking that a black person is only discriminated against if they are poor, again shows a lack of perceptive and ignorance for the plight of minorities. It shows that he has had little experience with minorities and appears to take them for granted. When I couple that with Dean saying he doesn't care what 70% might think if he's president he will do what's "right". Well That remind me of when I was marching against the war, and Bush didn't give a fig.

Beyond that I found out that Dean only signed the Gay union bill because of the Supreme Court made it obligatory and not necessarily due to his own conviction. That is also problematic to me.

Add to the fact that he has not been a "Wellstone" democrat for most of his political career, but yet claims the mantle, add to my doubts.

Furthermore, the manner in which he handled the whole controversy of the flag...that is while he was on stage showed me that he doesn't do well under pressure....he was almost speechless, stumbling for words and looking not too good for the wear.

Anyway, that's what I think.

[Sweetpea]

37. Yes, I agree with you. When I hear DU'ers say Sharpton was

race baiting at the Rock the vote debates, it is irritating. Dean was answering a question posed by a young black male. He had an opportunity at that point to turn the statement around. It felt like arrogance to not reply more with sensitive tone which then became fuel for Al Sharpton who if anyone forgets is a civil rights activist. The flag issue has been one that stirs up outrage for me and other blacks that i know. I remember even seeing it sold in a Woolworth store on the upper east side in Manhattan and asked the store to remove it because of it's offensive nature.
When those whites talk about heritage pride, it does make you cringe knowing the heritage was intertwined with brutal oppression and cruelty.
I except his apology but question his ability to respond under heat. He had to know going into the debate that a question like that could come up. So he needs better people to help prep him for controversial issues . Bush and his ilk can definitely use the good ol boy approach to this northener not understanding us southerners.

[Solomon]

28. The Confederate Flag is to most blacks

as the swastika is to jews.

Be that as it may, we understand what Dean was trying to say and I was not offended. His appology was icing on the cake.

[JackRiddler]

31. kick

k

[Kamika]

42. I dont care about it

Ok Im asian so I dont know if I count as a colored.. anyway I think his statement will earn him votes from just those peple since the other candidates will bash him for it.

Those "rednecks" he spoke about will think that Dean isnt as elitist as the other candidates. (NOTE: Im not saying they are elitists just that they think they are)

[rman]

43. Dean knows black southerners vote Dem anyway

So him mentioning whites doesn't mean he excludes blacks.
It's just that white southerners require extra effort to convince them to vote Dem.
(or did you mean another Dean statement?)

[Sweetpea]

45. I wonder what would have happened if he had said

I want to reach out to all voters including the hip hop gangstahs and their hoochies, chinese mafia, dumb blonds, the morbidly obese, welfare moms, and sunday Kentucky Fried chicken eaters...etc......

[JackRiddler]

46. don't forget X-Files viewers...

Well, if he does it a bit more diplomatically than you suggest (and perhaps a bit more diplomatically than he has managed with the flag), and if he actually offers something worthwhile to said groups... why not?

I confess, whitey or no, I've always disliked that flag... but I see that many people in the South and bordering states seem to view it as a regional symbol, or a symbol of rebellion. I'm sure a lot of people fly it to provoke and show their coolness, rather than to express support for slavery and racism. I also expect the group of those who tolerate it as a regional peculiarity is probably larger than those who actually fly the damn thing.

From a Machiavellian perspective, Dean was very clever in cracking into this issue in a controversial, attention-grabbing fashion. Now that the controversy has broken the ice, it's up to him (and the rest) to treat it more broadly and sensitively, and to address the underlying issues: "culture wars" vs. "bread-and-butter," the country's continuing racism, and the way that race is used to divide class.

[Sweetpea]

47. Dean showed that class can divide race too by reaching out to

poor whites who wave confederate flags. There was nothing clever about comments that generated such hostility. If anything the apology was the most clever part of the week. Lack of forgiveness, lack of respect, lack of compassion, lack of vision, are components that continue racism.

[JackRiddler]

49. kick for the afternoon people

x