Our democracy, and the 04' elections, hang by the thinnest of threads

[Flying_Pig]

Think about it. All it would take, would be a major "terrorist attack", or two, in some of our major cities, to provide Bush all of the reasons, legally and otherwise, to declare martial law and cancel the elections.

With news this evening that Al Qaeda is warning Muslims to leave New York, D.C. and L.A., because attacks are imminent (link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=200436 ), this nightmare possibility could become reality.

The problem I have, is that I would not put it above Bush and his henchmen to stage attacks, and blame them on Al Qaeda, in an effort to put the nation in a fascist stranglehold.

Think about it. If attacks were to occur, staged or not, Homeland Security would go to Code Red, which would suspend virtually all civil rights, including the right to even leave your house.

It is truly a nightmare scenario. Further, it's just amazing to me that we even have a president like Bush in office, where the thought him "staging" a terrorist attack to save his ass, is a plausible, and entirely (I believe) possible reality, given the craven evilness and corruption of this individual, and those that surround him.

Now why would Bush risk doing something like that? Would it be the mere thought, or possibility, that he may lose the election? I think yes, and wouldn't put it past him. We've seen the hubris and dishonesty in this man.

But, I think there may be an even bigger reason. The walls are closing in. The 9/11 and Iraq War investigations, if they are conducted with any honesty at all, are, at the very least, going to find gross negligence, bordering on the criminal, in the actions of this administration. Does anyone here think Bush and his gang will just stand by and watch the walls crumble around them, without taking extraordinary measures?

But what if there were even more incentive for Bush to stage attacks? Like the discovery that 9/11 was indeed MIHOP (which I personally believe), and that irrefutable evidence surfaced (actually, it already has), that Bush and his neonazicons lied about everything concerning Iraq in the run up to the war, deceiving the nation, and causing the deaths of tens of thousands of people in the process.

Would this not be enough incentive to have some of his more crazy neonazicons, or Christian soldiers, stage an attack, to preserve Bush's "God chosen" role as leader of this nation?

Scary thoughts. But every time I read or hear about another Al Qaeda threat, I don't think about Al Qaeda, or Muslims, I think about the evilness and destructive potential of the whacko fascists now running our nation.

Do any of you feel the same?

[frank frankly]

1. I feel the same way

we are in Big History and in Big Trouble.

but I feel tonight like we will prevail. barely.

[mmonk]

2. I do fear

one party right wing government. It bothers me we have so many people retiring. I want to be optimistic but I just don't know. I hear the greens are going to run candidates as well. The anti-rightwing vote will divide and the wing nuts will conquer.

[Thoth]

3. Well said

Yes, though I don't think suspension of elections will be necessary. Diebold will take care of the pesty election ;-)

It is scary to ponder the fascist depths this regime may sink to. However, there's still hope. With more of us aware of the 9-11 shenanigans, it may not be as easy to stage another major attack, though I'm probably wrong.

[Flying_Pig]

5. It seems the worse things get forthe Bushies, the more brazen they

get. Their defensive posture, is a damn-the-torpedos offense. If it's the economy or tax cuts their catching flak for, they try to pass MORE tax cuts. If it's the Iraq war, they start planning another invasion (Syria). If it's Enron or their oil and gas buddies, they pass big tax breaks for them, and give them lots of Iraq business. That's what I mean. The level of hubris among this bunch, has never comeclose to being duplicated by any another administration in this nations's history.

[Minstrel Boy]

4. A scary linkage I just made:

(1) The Al Qaeda warning for Muslims to leave cities and (2) the various reports of heightened military air activity.

Watch this space....

[Flying_Pig]

6. Please report back!

n/t

[pretzel4gore]

7. yes but....

you forget- the busheviks are cowards, and though they control machinery etc, they must have nightmares about EVEN ONE official somewhere suddenly saying 'fuck these traitors' and knocking their entire nasty bushit wagon over with well placed trap.....the internet is vital to economy (thus to bushwack) so they must finesse their efforts to control it, tho no doubt that might be possible. It's fear and loathing that's driving bushinc (if you notice, 911 actually was very carefully arranged so relatively few people actually died 3000 instead of 20, 30, or even 40 thousand (?) deaths could have easily happened) and this was because...well when truth comes out it will be obvious....among the hard men who run USA fear was tempered by anger so much that bushinc was, through the bushit media, able to direct that anger: remember how the confusion quotient right after 911 was worsened by the anthrax scare? then of course the carefully prepped CNN/Bin Laden?Barb Olsen bushit at same time (with finding of terrorist passport in rubble of WTC!!) also recall how the busheviks shut down airspace for a few days (filling newstime) etc etc with one damn thing after another (but NORC results on back pages where mediawhores could lie safely about them) until flight 587 on nov 10th which REMEMBER the media immediately deduced was not terrorism (terrism serve no purpose at the time, indeed it would have damaged US economy forcing airlines down, so they CALMED US DOWN buy lying gently)....
It fits together like a big goofy puzzle, and the thing I most enjoy is knowing all them pigs SWEAT (the merdiawhorews) cuz they never signed on for the destruction of US democracy, and they're a-getting it!
they lie to themselves they happy, but you can feel it; they fucked the USA like nothing in history, tore its very guts out....
for what reason?
i just read 'Babbitt', and that explains the reasoning....

[shance]

8. Does he have the right to enforce Martial Law or does that have to be

approved by Congress?

[Flying_Pig]

10. The president candeclare it by Executive Order. And, I believe

the Patriot Act gives him additional powers as well.

[shance]

11. No legislative branch can question that action?

Not to mention the Patriot Act has been essentially invalidated in over 140 cities now. They include Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston and New York.

[Flying_Pig]

12. I am not sure. Perhaps there is a legal scholar lurking about who

might answer that question?

[Zan_of_Texas]

21. check your facts

I live in Houston. There has been no invalidation of the Patriot Act here, to my knowledge. If you have a link to something that says different, please post it.

[Trek234]

32. Do you understand what martial law is?

Of course no legislative or judicial branch can question that action. In martial law they are totally suspended.

And please, take a class in US law. "the Patriot Act has been essentially invalidated in over 140 cities now" Last time I checked city ordinances don't trump federal law. Those citys statements/ordinances mean NOTHING. They have NO legal standing what so ever when facing federal law.

[tom_paine]

14. That's Imperial Fiat

"Executive Orders" are implemented by Presidents of Free nations.

Bunnypants* is Emperor. And a strong argument could be mde that Amerika is no longer technically free. Yes, I am well aware that, for the moment, there are no signs of wholesale, overt oppression in our daily lives.

"The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery, for slavery consists in being subject to the will of another, and he that has not a vote in the election of representatives is in this case."
--Thomas Paine

The fish rots from the head down. When the head is done, rotting, Tyranny will "trickle down" to us Serfs, IMHO. It's one of the few aspects of "trickle down" that really works.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. If you really want to scare yourself,

read about the "Mount Weather" installation and FEMA's shadow government:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/bases075.html

Code Red, here we come.

[jenm]

13. Did You Know?

That:
* EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

* EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Management Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

[Flying_Pig]

15. Do you know when these EO's were adopted?

The one I find most egregious, is the one that says Congress cannot review the actions of the president for 6 months, if he decides to declare a State of Emergency. That's called fascism. Congress is supposed to represent the people, and this rule/law gives the president the right to ignore the will of the people for 6 months.

:wtf:

[jenm]

16. that one gets me too

Pre-1995, here's the link to the article

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html

[Flying_Pig]

17. Yep, and it's all Bush would need to cancel the elections....

:grr:

[shance]

18. When were they adopted?

n/t

[Flying_Pig]

20. See Post#16, this thread.

n/t

[DerekG]

22. This FEMA was a goddamn bipartisan effort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nixon, CARTER, Reagan, Bush...

Could this be part of the reason why the Democratic leadership folded in last year's war resolution?

[iangb]

19. Im not quite blue in the face yet, but.....

.....as I've posted umpteen times before, Congress granted Bush Emergency Powers soon after 9/11.

The limits of Presidential Emergency Powers have not been tested, but could include 'rule by decree'.

As a point of interest it was the Emergency Powers in Germany's constitution that allowed Hitler to exert dictatorial powers in the 1930's.

But of course we all know it couldn't happen in the US............don't we?

[Kinkistyle]

23. No! Actually it would be disastrous for Bush

Because it would mean everything we've been going through, all the war, and giving up of our rights were USELESS. The Republicans claim to be the "Security" party, but if another 9/11-type event occurs again, it means they are incompetent at everything. It will be one disaster they actually can't blame on Clinton.

No, they won't stage a terrorist event.

[Trek234]

33. That is flawed logic

You COULD think about it that way, but it will NOT be thought of that way.

People will be begging Bush to save them at ANY COST. Burn the constitution? Fine with most americans when they think it's the only way to save their asses from being next in line. In a time of panic that is what most people think of. Self preservation. Logic can go tell hell. There is no disputing this point. If a city gets vaporized on TV you will see this very basic human response working in all it's glory.

Logically Bush can NOT be held accountable for a terrorist action. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to stop any and all terrorist actions that may occur. Got that? He can NOT possibly stop it. No one can. No organization can. You can potentially stop a good number of them, but logically at least one is going to be pulled off successfully eventually.

Please prove to me that it is within Bush's power (or any government agency) to stop ANY AND ALL terrorist attacks before they happen. If it is not within their power, how can you blame them for it?

You're right, they won't blame Clinton. They will blame those who carried it out, which is where the blame belongs. Not with a person who could not have stopped it. If there is a person who can stop any and all attempts please name this person. (eargerly waiting for Clark/Dean/Kerry/some dems name to pop up)

[Ani Yun Wiya]

24. Sounds about right to me.

Although it's probably in the offing for some time late next summer.
With Syria as the next target.

[neebob]

25. Unfortunately, yes

I believe it was LIHOP, but I'm not convinced it wasn't MIHOP. I wouldn't put anything past this pack of criminals. They will do anything to stay in power.

[Lexingtonian]

26. No

If he did something that brazenly dictatorial after compiling the record he has he'd get killed in short order. Not as a matter of desperation but because enough people have run out of patience with him.

None of the political rationales by which he has governed has any majority consensus to it anymore. And I don't mean the official ones. "Well, he's still better than Nothing" is pretty much the platform he really stands on right now nationally. If he does enough of something of that order of magnitude, Nothing is going to become meaningfully appealing. Some whacko will then notice that and see a chance for everlasting personal glory in it.

[Flying_Pig]

27. Hmmmm. I'm not sure about that. Bush still has the support of

a little less than 50% of the voting public, or so say the polls. The South still thinks he walks on water, and Christian fundies everywhere support him. I think if the strikes were to occur, these people would stand by him just like they have through all his lies about Iraq. Those that might try for his "forced" removal, would likely be facing a civil war. But of course, if it were suspected that he pulled something like a staged terror attack, then let the war begin, because it may be the only way to dethrone him.

[Flying_Pig]

28. Morning kick ... I'd really like to hear from others who may, or may not

be feeling the same way. Thoughts?

[iangb]

29. The lack of response speaks volumes.

We don't want to think about it.


Though now would be a good time to start with some 'plan B' thinking......just in case.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. What "democracy"?? You must have missed the Coup of 2000.

[bobbieinok]

31. Oliver North played a major role in setting up FEMA to

stop domestic dissent.

See link in #16.