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Starpass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:23 PM
Original message
The Powers That Be Will Never Let the People Rule Again
I've always said that the American Revolution didn't really kick in until about the 1950's. It lasted a couple decades and now the powerful are crushing it and making sure they never make the mistake of letting the people rise again.

The first component of that revolution was in and around the 50's when labor unions finally came into their own, grew strong and set a good livable wage for average Americans and gave them an underpinning of benefits. Prior to that the Unions not only fought the wealthy business owners, they fought their own blue collar people who were lead to label them as "commies". Now the powers that be are busily destroying those unions and those jobs.

Then came the civil rights revolution and the women's rights revolution. All you have to do is look at modern day repukes and their agendas to know that all that is under attack, too.

The rich have kicked themselves for 50 years that they ever let things get out of hand in this nation and allow the "trash" to rise. The "trash" needs to wake up and realize they are being taken out to the curb for pick up and disposal. It is sickening to see them support those who want them destroyed instead of adding to those revolutions and making this nation work for it's people. If these fools were around in 1776, we would still be kissing King George's ring and worshiping the ground he walked on while living in poverty.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am afraid you are right.
Fascism is in place in America, and anyone who REALLY criticizes it will be put down (thus the hysterical effort to stop Dean--there is a fear out there that unlike most of the other-he cannot be CONTROLLED> ;)
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. What can I say but that I completely agree
"A couple decades" in which the promise of America was gradually coming closer to being fufilled.

As Geo. Washington said:

"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."

Unfortunately, what he didn't foresee was that pushing towards that goal would ultimately result in the end of the American Experiment he helped found.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Union hatred widespread
Unions become almost the universal bad guy during the '70s. Even members weren't too happy (high dues, forced membership, corruption, etc).

Now workers have lost just about all power. There's little effective organization. The central theme is "everyone for themselves".
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think the high water mark was the Freedom of Information Act (1974?)
The government had to keep all actions public unless it involved proprietary bidding for contracts, national defense, etc. Now we are regressing from that with the Patriot Act and court rulings ever since the burning of the Reichstag, er, I mean 9/11.
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ablbodyed Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. So true....
But now there are right-wing militias to enforce the coup. If there's ANY CHANCE AT ALL that a Democrat will win, there'll be another 'terrorist' attack and the election will be 'postponed' under the "Patriot" act. I know many who would be glad to intimidate and, if necessary, kill those who protest. The bullies, who have NEVER believed in democracy, are in control and the dream of freedom that WAS America is now a nightmare. I think that we liberals/progressives should all arm ourselves, but we are much too concientious to do it, and MAY
be too moral to even save ourselves. I PASSIONATELY HOPE THAT I AM DELUSIONAL about the future of this country, so PLEASE give me some good news.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Two things happened in the 40s and 50s
that brought about some of the changes you're describing. First, World War II made the U.S. one nation in a way it had never been before. Regional politics (particularly the old wounds of the Civil War) and the urban/rural divide were healed to a significant extent. Young men of all social classes and all levels of education (it is difficult to comprehend how many perfectly intelligent people were illiterate back then) from all states of the nation came together and fought as buddies in the big war. Korea, in the 50s, took this one step farther by integrating the military racially.

The other thing was an unprecedented and unreplicable economic boom. The United States was the only significant industrial nation (there was also Canada) that hadn't been bombed to a cinder in the war. Our infrastructure and production capacity was undiminished. Consequently, everything from steel to radios were made in America. We had virtually no competition. The beginning of the end of this boom was when Germany started competing in automobiles and Japan in electronics. But it was a time when the only check on production and profit was the supply of labor, and so working people were in the driver's seat for once.

Now, the first condition (nationwide integration) is still happening in many sectors of society. Television and the public schools, to name two, bring people of different backgrounds together. Notice the moves to destroy the public schools (vouchers, "choice") and to splinter television into a million niche audiences. The second condition is in full retrograde. Globalization is making labor largely powerless. And the hell of that is that globalization is not dependent on NAFTA and other such laws - it is a private-sector movement that is not dependent on specific agreements. To get rid of globalization, you'd practically have to outlaw multinational corporations (or corporations altogether). And globalization has some good effects, such as giving the Third World a leg up and keeping wars small and infrequent (I'm not kidding myself that the effects of globalization on the Third World have all been positive).

Still, do you really believe that there has been nothing good about this country, compared to the rest of the world, that dates back farther than the 50s? Also, do you really believe that the progress of the 40s-70s can really entirely be taken back? Do you believe that legal resegregation could ever happen? That religion could ever again have such an iron grip on schools and other social institutions as it used to have? That working conditions will ever truly revert to the days of the Industrial Revolution (cf Dickens, Sinclair, Riis)?

I'm not saying that we don't need to turn the tide back to progress in this country. But we're a long way from the Bad Old Days.
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Starpass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. We are closer to it than you know with the shifts in wealth
in this nation. We just have a few more core wealthy people than a hundred years ago. I was married for 23 years to a VP of one of the nation's major corporations. Already 20 years ago this "all American" company was heavily invested in by a certain foreign entity. I entertained the "people" from this entity in my home and it was where I got the real education of where this nation is going. They came from countries where there are the extremely wealthy and below that is squaler, disease and peons. They were livid at the wages and benefits paid in this nation. Their number one priority for the execs was to slash and burn the American worker any which way possible. They hated the idea of things like company pensions, etc. They contributed heavily to our elected officials---they owned them. Company president, in fact, became one of Ronnie's ambassadors for his fine work in raising millions for Ron. This nation is heavily invested in by foreigners (do the Saudi's ring a bell). They not only own these corporations, they own our government through those corporations. They have no interest in stupid American crap like livable wages, benefits, pensions, retirement accounts, standard of living, rights, democracy and all that rubish. So we are replacing the robber barrons of old with a new breed that is far more vicious. We serve their purposes now. Their future plans involve the future of certain other selected countries while we are to be brought into line with the norm. But we we at least be peons with a tv set.
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ablbodyed Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yes, prisoners....
in a gilded cage with strong self-interest in maintaining our captivity.
I work with a fool who delivers the mail. Makes $65K+++ a year!!!!!!!! This is ENTIRELY due to his union, which he mocks. HATES Democrats, curses their political mailings and throws them across the room; cradles his guns. How long does he think (though even accusing him of thinking is a stretch) that he'll make that kind of money under an unfettered Repug anti-union admin? They'll declare the union void (decertify it) under security laws and he'll be out on his thin ass.
But Hey, he loves his kid, even though the policies of the people he supports will make her life much more constrained and difficult. But he HAS NO CLUE that he facilitates this.
I have to give the school system some of the blame for this ignorance. What do they teach in civics? I remember in fifth grade, criticizing someone who took the fifth amendment. Teacher told me that the innocent are more in need of the constitutional protections than the guilty, because you never know when you're going to be the one on the defensive. Stuck with me, and I guess the beginning of a VERY MUCH too long journey from conservate to liberal beliefs.
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ablbodyed Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Your last paragraphs give hope until....
you factor-in how incredibly confining and controlling the technological economy is. Just try to get along as an active rebel when your every move is under scrutiny in some way or another. That's the monster under the bed. A few computer clicks and you're financially destroyed. All the safeguards can be over-ridden under 'national security' Want to bet that there's some provision in the "Patriot" act to do just that?
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That's kinda paranoid, isn't it?
Any proof that that sort of thing is actually happening?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I do believe Amerika could turn most or all of it back
Given enough span of time and advnaces in psychomanipulative science.

Of course, it wouldn't be exactly like the 1890s or the 1590s.

But read "Farenheit 451" or "1984" as to how we could get there without completely and directly negating all the progress of the 40s to the 70s.

Amerika 2100? Maybe by then (if trends remain unchanged).

Amerika 2200? (if it's still around in any recognizable form, which I'm very skeptical of)

Give it time. The Busheviks have only just begun.

Though I most ferverently hope I am wrong and I'm not giving up!
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. 2010, I think
These things seem to go in cycles. 3 things make me think this is the time.

1. People don't want to emulate thier parents, they want to emulate thier grandparents.

2. Baby Boomers have failed to plan for thier retirements. Which means as they rely more and more on SS to fund thier retirements, they will demand more government services. And become more liberal.

3. Large disparities of wealth almost always leads to revolutions as the populace gets tired of oppression eventually.

Some food for thought: Almost all of the empires of the 20th Century have fallen. The Ottomans, British, Soviet, German, Japanese, French.
The Amerikan Empire is the last one and it will too from its own arrogance and feelings of invincibility.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. yup
to the barricades!

A French Revolution is needed.

ANybody have a guillotine to donate?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not willingly anyway
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Never say never
It took the likes of "rabble" like Sam Adams to begin the first revolution. I would guess there will be another like him to rise to the top. I for one will be at his or her side.

When the multinationals take away the dignity of employment and food from the table on a broad enough scale, when the "meritocracy" envisioned by the enlightened Founding Fathers closes its doors completely to protect to the entrenched elite, and (and this is controversial but very important), when the government--even under the guise of the misnomered "Patriot Act"--comes to take away the guns, you will see the rabble rise on a grand scale. Gun-toting, beer-drinking wild boys along side with militant, liberal hippie chicks taking back the country. What a sight it will be!

Are ya ready to rumble?
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