it's pretty clear that Kerry wants to be the "anti-Dean" candidate

[pruner]

instead of using his blog to promote himself, he's using it to try & tear down Dean.

Weekend Roundup

Most of you have probably seen the headlines about Dean's incredibly misguided comment about wanting to be the candidate for people who fly the Confederate flag in the back of their pickup trucks.

Just in case you've missed a few, here's a rundown of the many stories that ran about the offensive comment in the national press today. With this many national newspapers covering the incident, it certainly shows that it's far more serious than your typical campaign dustup.

To be sure, Dean's only response to the comment so far has been a statement he released that basically criticizes Kerry for finding the comment offensive in the first place.

Well, here are the headlines, so you can judge for yourself:

New York Times: Rivals Attack Dean for Wooing 'Guys With Confederate Flags'

Washington Post: Dean Is Criticized Over Remark on Confederate Flag

Associated Press: Dean's Rivals Decry Flag Remark

Boston Globe: Candidates criticize Dean for Confederate flag remark

Des Moines Register: Dean flag comment offensive, rivals say

http://blog.johnkerry.com/

[w4rma]

1. If Kerry somehow won, I'd have to hold my nose to vote for him after this.

Kerry is an outright liar. He and Gephardt should apologize to Dean.

[cavebat2000]

3. Kerry is dividing the democratic party

and hes really starting to tick me off.

[janekat]

44. Kerry's only attacked Dean that I know of... Who else has he attacked?

Did something recently happen?

I think Dean is much, much worse - he's also gotten attacked quite a bit by all the candidates except Clark.

The only attacks not involving Dean were maybe a couple of them on Clark - but I don't think it was Kerry who attacked him.

[HazMat]

6. oh please

you people say that everytime one of the other candidates "attacks" poor 'lil Howie. Do ya really mean it this time ? Do ya really ?

The Deanies need to grow up and realize that this is a political campaign. And lest we forget it was Dean who attacked the field first. We had a solid electable candidate like Kerry who was coasting to the nomination. Dean is the one who will cost us this election if he's nominated.

[pruner]

7. if Kerry's so electable…

how come it looks like he's not gonna win any (primary) elections?

[blm]

54. John Glenn could beat Reagan in 84. The Dem primaries gave it to Mondale.

Primary winners don't always do best in the general election.

By 1992, the Dems were so sick of losing that they finally came round to someone who could put forth Democratic ideals using language attractive to moderates, too.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

59. Don't speak so prematurely

nearly 3 months ahead of the vote.
If Kerry wins NH the Dean teeth gnashing will be unbearable.

[Forkboy]

9. "coasting to the nomination"

lol...now that was a funny one :)

[sendero]

62. coasting...

... to extreme mediocrity would be a better description.

[CWebster]

52. Show me the documentation

because if you really want to be accurate--In their very first confrontation it was Kerry who challenged Dean, and I am sick of hearing this falsehood that accuses Dean of attacking first repeated without question.

Kerry will never win. He won't win the nomination and everyday he alienates Dean's hugh base more and more- And should he win the nomination, and it is a close election by then, he will lose the general on his lack of popular political assets.

It is Kerry who sabotages the Democrat's chances.

[MercutioATC]

2. Gee, I thought Gephardt wanted to be the "anti-Dean"...

...looks like they'll have to wrestle for it...

[billbuckhead]

8. If standing up to the Confederate flag and the NRA divides us....

so be it. We have stand for something. Deans pathetic pandering to the Confederate flag/NRA crowd makes him the ultimate pink tutu Dem. Few on either side will respect this guy at the end of the day. Dean has alienated long time democratic constituencies on a Don Quixotelike quest to win over these voters who wouldn't vote for him if Dean gave them free ammunition.

[MercutioATC]

28. Nothing but spin....

He did NOT "pander" to anybody.

On gun control, Dean supports all existing federal gun legislation and also supports closing the gunshow loophole. Realizing that different states have different gun legislation needs, he leaves further regulation up to them (this is NOT a relaxation of present gun laws).

His Confererate flag statement illustrated how two groups, in this case southern blacks and southerners who display the Confederate flag, have the same needs regardless of philosophy and how they would (and we ALL would) be better served standing together than separately.

Neither is a negative...

[RetroLounge]

57. This post ani't nothing but shite

Pink TuTu Dem?

Like the ones who voted for the War?

Like the ones who said they were Glad Bush and his team were in power and switched to be a Dem just for this election?

Like the one who stood with Bush* in the rose garden?

p.s. DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN

[Dagaz]

10. If by anti Dean you mean establishment

Yes those two are competing to be the Clinton/DLC-like candidate. There is life after Iowa and NH and that's why Dean is promoting the Confederate flag. SC is next.

[pruner]

12. Dean is by no means promoting the Confederate flag…

and you damn well know it.

what he's promoting is healthcare for all (including those who have a Confederate flag on their trucks).

[billbuckhead]

20. By pandering to Confederate flag owners, he gives them legitimacy.

He could have used a million other "hooks" to reach out to blue collar whites in the south but he has carefully chosen this one. I've been persuaded that he actually is using this caricature of southern blue collar whites to appeal to his own base. Surely it's so ham handed it can't possibly be aimed at winning these voters over, it can only be aimed at his "true believers". They'll give him more $$$$ like a Pavlov dog at the expense of rednecks and minorities.

[robsul82]

23. What else could he have said...?

"The guys who watch cars make 1200 left turns on Sunday?" "The guys who pronounce 'wrestling' as ''rasslin'?" "The guys who look at their cousins and say, 'Well, that thar ain't too bad...' "

Later.

RJS

[billbuckhead]

26. How about just pickup truck owners?

Or how about NASCAR dads? Or how about pickup truck owners with Bush/Cheney stickers on their trucks but no health insurance for their familes. No Howard carefully has chosen to use the Confederate flag.

[robsul82]

27. Hey now...

...according to John Edwards, saying ANYTHING about trucks would be insulting to truck owners. Watch yourself! :)

Later.

RJS

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

29. "Carefully chosen"?

"Carefully chosen"? I thought that Dean's BIG PROBLEM is that he speaks without thinking.

This whole confederate flag thing is a major scandal only to people who already don't like Dean or are running against him. Nobody else gives a shit. Try again. Sorry.

[MercutioATC]

24. How is he "pandering"?

According to Webster:

Main Entry: 2pander
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): pan·dered; pan·der·ing /-d(&-)ri/
Date: 1602
: to act as a pander; especially : to provide gratification for others' desires <films that pander to the basest emotions>
- pan·der·er /-d&r-&r/ noun


How is Dean "pandering" to either Confererate flag owners or the NRA?

[billbuckhead]

30. 8 endorsments from the NRA, making Confederate flag wavers a

worthwhile subgroup of voters for the Democratic party. States rights for everything. What more do you want.

[MercutioATC]

Again, how is that "pandering"?

I've invited you, on numerous occasions, to examine Dean's gun philosophy and express your differences with it. You've chosen to simply spout "NRA endorsements" over and over again. What is it about Dean's gun policy that irks you so?

If you bothered to read Dean's statement, it's clear that the message was "We're all in this together and we'll be better off if we STAND together." At no time did Dean say anything supportive of racism. He simply stressed the common ground that we ALL share. Frankly, I fail to see how this is anything other than a message of inclusion. I also fail to see how it hurts the Party in the least.

[Clark Can WIN]

4. I tend to favor Kerry over Dean but

This turning negative by him is turning me off.

[tsipple]

5. Kerry Will Have to Get Past New Hampshire First

And he'll have to explain why he voted for the Iraq War and the Patriot Act to do it.

That's tough.

[aldian159]

14. patriot act

In fairness to my guy Kerry, every Senator not named Feingold voted for it. One didn't vote, and 98 voted yea. I don't know who wasn't there, but all but one of the follwing voted for it (most likely):

Kennedy
Boxer
Wellstone
Feinstein
Durbin
Edwards
Graham


http://www.civildisobedience.us/press/synopsis.html

Still doesn't make it OK, but, cut the guy a little slack

[Forkboy]

15. The fact that 98 others were wrong as well

doesn't lessen Kerry's wrongness on the issue though.

[La_Serpiente]

18. Excusme

to clarify Dean's posistion, he feels that the Senators and House members shouldn't be blamed for voting for the Patriot Act. It was a very emotional time in America.

And Dean didn't have to vote for it. That's a big difference.

[tsipple]

19. That's Fair

Good point. Anyone deserves a pass for one bad vote.

I listed two, though. :evilgrin:

[Forkboy]

22. I dont agree with Dean on that

emotions aren't what makes a good leader.That's the time for reason and thinking,not sweeping rules based on fear and anger.

[La_Serpiente]

32. That's not fair

many Congressman were under great pressure at the time. You cannot intelectualize this and leave emotion out of it. It is unhealthy.

I respect those like Kucinich, Abercrombie (my rep) and Feingold for having the resolve to vote against it.

It took me about three months after 9/11 to actually put into perspective. I believe that was what many Congressmen were thinking at the time. Disbelief and horros, a natural human reaction.

[Forkboy]

34. There's no excuse for voting for such sweeping laws

WITHOUT EVEN READING THEM based on emotion.The emotion is understandable.Acting on that emotion,and that emotion alone,is not.

[JohnKleeb]

63. Serp I agree whole heartily

I do forgive those who said AYE, I really do but I also give props to those who you mentioned, they deserve it and I proudly support a man who said NAY to that legislation, however we cant hold it against them really, personally although a Kucinich supporter I dont use the Patriot Act as a litmus test, its the man's vision is why I support him, and that vision by god it can take our nation places.

[blm]

55. That's why they insisted on sunsetting.

.

[tsipple]

17. Dennis Kucinich Voted NAY

He got that vote right.

[JohnKleeb]

25. He gets a lot of votes right

and has great ideals thats why I support him. I think those who voted YES on the patriot act screwed up but I can forgive them. Now on IWR, horrible decision to say the least but I do know that Bush has fucked the nation up more ways than this.

[robsul82]

11. Kerry's seriously turned into..

...one big, to be juvenile, jerk. A lying, dishonest jerk. It's a shame too.

Later.

RJS

[seventhson]

13. Kerry is turning out to be the anti-Kerry Spokesmodel

Pitiful.

But Kerry was ALWAYS kinda pitiful.

From his "J.F.K." emossed briefcase in prep school

to his joing Skull and Bones with the Bushes

to his filmed reenactments of war "heroism"

to his fake tossing of his medals in protest (when he reallt kept his own medals and threw away the medals of others).

to his vote for the Bush Endless War with the Muslims for OIL

to his insane attacks on Dean.

and for amny more reasons.

He is his own worst enemy and always had been.

[Forkboy]

16. And he's the BFEE's left-winger

for their hockey team.

[mitchum]

21. Well, If you mean anti-Rockefeller Republican...

you're right.

Oh Howie...he's so rad...he's anti-establishment...he's a rebel...gets me all wet

[HazMat]

31. what's sad is how much power these latte liberal suburban kids have

over our nominating process. If Dean gets the nomination he will lose badly. The Democratic Party has to think about restructuring the primaries to prevent this sort of hijacking from happening again (like they did after '72). The process should produce a viable national candidate. Even with all of the corp media pushing Dean, he still does poorly in polls vs Bush head to head. Dean is weakest on the most important "issue" - ability to win.

[robsul82]

36. I just don't think...

...there are that many "latte liberal suburban kids" across the nation who are into Dean, I'm sorry. "Hijacking" the primaries, I can't believe it. Grasping at straws, just like your man Kerry.

Later.

RJS

[tsipple]

40. I Thought Kerry Supporters Drank Lattes

What's a latte, by the way? :-)

[tsipple]

67. Restructuring the Primaries?!?

The Democratic Party has to think about restructuring the primaries to prevent this sort of hijacking from happening again...

Hmmmm... OK. If John Kerry is running, I guess we'll just have senators from Massachusetts pick the nominee....

In other words, are you kidding? How could the current system be any friendlier to John Kerry? New Hampshire has the first primary, remember?

I guess everything and everybody except John Kerry is responsible for the fact that not everybody is worshiping John Kerry.

By the way, I've reinvented English grammar rules so that John Kerry gets the special emphasis he deserves.

(Sheesh.)

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HazMat]

35. According to Dean followers, most of them

aren't even Democrats, so it would follow that they wouldn't vote for a great Democrat like Kerry anyway, even in the general election .

The fact is we won in 2000 without them and we'll win again. If Dean is nominated he won't win, even with our vote.

[Forkboy]

37. "Most of them aren't even Democrats"

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

38. I'm a Dean supporter and I've ALWAYS voted Democratic

I can understand your annoyance at what is admittedly an unfortunate trend of many Dean supporters beating up other candidates, but that's not all of us, and it's certainly not most of us. Most of us, like me, have no desire to step on anyone's toes or talk shit about anyone's candidate, and will be more than happy to vote for whoever ends up getting the nomination. So please don't let the behavior of a few dictate your attitude towards all of us.

[DrFunkenstein]

43. You Are Absolutely Right - I Apologize For The Generalization

There are definitely very cool Dean supporters. Why is it that the annoying ones seem so much more prolific? I have all but given up on the Politics and Campaigns forum, because every post gets swamped with flaming Dean supporters.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

47. The annoying ones are always more memorable

If you're talking to five Dean supporters, and two of them are assholes, that reflects badly on all of them, no matter how cool the other three are.

I wish I could somehow argue that all Dean supporters are wonderful at all times, but I know that's not the case, and whenever I see someone else who supports my candidate saying uncalled-for shit about other candidates, I really really cringe. We're supposed to be presenting ourselves as a viable option, not as a bunch of self-righteous shit heads.

I'm almost positive that most of us "Deaniacs" would be more than happy to vote for Kerry (or any other Democratic candidate) if he gets the nomination. We ARE in this together.

Take care.

[DrFunkenstein]

61. Don't Believe The Hype

When push comes to shove, all of the Kerry supporters around here will be ready to slap the donkey no matter who it is.

[pruner]

41. the main reason none of the other camps like Dean is…

he's kicking their collective asses all over the place.

:spank:

[janekat]

45. Clark is in first place - I haven't heard anybody attacking him except

Dean.

[robsul82]

46. Um...

...huh? Not checking the primaries, he isn't.

Later.

RJS

[janekat]

51. He's was in first place in a recent poll. He was also in 1st place for 2-3

weeks. YOU must not follow the polls. The polls showing Clark in 1st place have been posted here multitiudes of times...

[robsul82]

53. He's not in first in any primaries...

...which is what counts, not the 46-44 margin of error hypothetical Clark-Bush races. Period.

Later.

RJS

[tsipple]

72. Clark *Was* #1 Nationally

Dean seems to have reclaimed that position, though, in multiple polls, including the latest Washington Post poll.

Mind you, Lieberman was also fairly recently #1 in national preference polls. Which is too bad, because the Democratic Party doesn't have a national primary.

I'd also point you to the Wisconsin Badger Poll which polled favorability ratings of each candidate. Lieberman leads that poll, with a little over 30% of Wisconsonites saying they have a favorable impression of him. The vast majority of Wisconsinites say "Who?" and have no opinion. (Wisconsin has a reasonably early primary and could be a factor.)

And then it goes down from there. Clark is the least known major Democratic candidate in Wisconsin, according to that poll. Over 80% have no opinion. Almost no negatives, but no positives yet either.

I say all this because all Democrats need to realize how long and how far we have to go. It's a full year until the 2004 general election, and nobody (relatively speaking) is paying attention, with the possible exception of voters in Iowa and New Hampshire. That's why we have a state-by-state primary system, so that Iowa, New Hampshire, and some other early states can audition and interview the candidates for all the rest of us so we can concentrate on the NFL season and other important matters.

It's also why it will be so critical to build a big volunteer grassroots organization (and two-way Internet communications) to win this thing. Bush will have $200 million to spend on TV. No Democrat -- even the best financed one -- will be able to compete head-to-head against that. The Democratic nominee will need to do an end run around conventional political marketing on TV. That's why I hope all Democrats, Clark included, will get into high gear on that organizing.

[blm]

56. Correction: some of us saw through his fraudulent rhetoric

last January when he was below Sharpton in the polls. Our consistency in pegging him early on as a compromising centrist with Libertarian leanings who successfully coopted Nader's antiDemocrat rhetoric of 2000, should be noted and recognized for accuracy.

[w4rma]

50. DrFunkenstein says: I signed up as a GOP Team Leader…

they send me talking points!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=72587&mesg_id=72884

[DrFunkenstein]

60. I Love When You Link This

You think you are attacking me or something.

Let me quote the original post in full for you:

----

I Love The RNC!

I highly recommend to everyone to keep tabs of what they are saying about your candidate. Nip that crap in the bud.

They're the source of alot of my best Kerry quotes. It's like Bizarro World. What they despise (pro-choice, pro-environment) sounds great to us!

Plus they have the world's funniest recruitment video!

http://www.gop.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/TLvideo2.htm

I signed up as a GOP Team Leader...they send me talking points!

----

It was actually Tom Tomorrow's blog that gave me the idea in the first place. After they sent me that video, I knew it was worth it.

I'm tired of listening to these fundamentalist preachers! Gotta love the Howard Beale schtick!

[seventhson]

65. Kerry, the war criminal - Your assertion is false, and...

I'm sure George Clinton appreciates you using his nom de plume from the PFunk daze.

What I have posted is the assertion made by others that Kerry killed a downed and wounded teenage Vietnamese who was wearing only a loincloth and that this MAY have been in violation of the Geneva convention.

Kerry's gunner on his boat had shot the kid and Kerry pursued him and killed him even though the young man did not fire (he was allegedly carrying a rpg launcher) and was already shot and down.

Apparently only Kerry saw what happened and so the question is really an open one. Is he a war criminal. I do NOT know for sure and have never said I was SURE he was.

I believe Kerry and his men have admitted killing civilians in another incident where a baby was killed by one of Kerry's crew (possibly Kerry himself) - (according to that story the civilians were "shielding" VC)

In any event what disturbs me MOST about the incident with the teenager in the loincloth is that Kerry filemd a reenactment with his men shooting super 8 pictures apparently in the SAME location where he was attacked showing Kerry emerging from the bush with the rpg weapon. This is the incident where he won the silkver star. He put his men in harms way to do a reenactment firing live rounds to "recreate" the incident in hostile territory which he since used in his political commercials or for PR with reporters.

Kerry is a goon and a loser in my book. The fake medals toss shows him to be a coward when it comes to principles.

War is hell and I generally do NOT believe that isolated incidents of accidental or "collateral damage" killings in the war zone deserve extreme blame for the soldiers where they were sent in by the politicians. But Kerry's actions were reprehensible to me in the sense that he used his own crew and endangered them to recreate an event for future political use and that in that incident he may have killed a wounded and downed enemy soldier in violation of the rules of war.

Kerry has admitted in his own writings that he should perhaps have been court martialed for the killings of the civilians.

He wrote that in his wartime personal journal at the time - which actually is a PLUS with me (an acknowledgment of his own complicity in that evil).

But to allege that I am muckraking in unfair territory regarding the war crimes issue with respect to Kerry is unfounded.

Kerry may or may NOT have committed war crimes (although I believe he probably did). I have said that in war these crimes are pretty much inevitable and the soldiers on the ground are not usually entirely to blame. But sometimes they ARE entirely to blame: and Kerry may be too.

[DrFunkenstein]

70. Kerry Protested Civilian Deaths While In Vietnamn

The possibility of killing innocent civilians haunted Kerry. With many of the South Vietnamese waterways in ''free fire zones'' - meaning that the US Navy was authorized to shoot anyone who was violating a curfew - the likelihood that innocent villagers could be killed was high.

Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy put civilians at such high risk. So, on Jan. 22, 1969, Kerry and several dozen fellow skippers and officers traveled to Saigon to complain about the policy in an extraordinary meeting with Zumwalt and the overall commander of the war, General Creighton W. Abrams Jr. ''We were fighting the free fire policy very, very hard, to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions, to the point where crews were starting to mutiny, say, `I would not go back in the rivers again,''' Kerry recalled during a 1971 television appearance on the Dick Cavett Show.

But Kerry went back in the rivers. Indeed, it was after this meeting that he began his most deadly round of combat. Within days of the Saigon meeting, he joined a five-man crew on swift boat No. 94 on a series of missions in which he won the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, and two of his three Purple Hearts. Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml

[sendero]

66. and the really bad news for the...

.... "bush-lites" is that Dems by and large agree with Dean. Even folks with little interest in politics can easily see that the Dem senate has absolutely capitulated.

They (the Bush-lite crew) can be mad at Dean for WINNING and having NEW IDEAS and the guts to SPREAD THEM, but if they wish to place blame they need look no further than a mirror.

[DrFunkenstein]

68. ANWR? Estrada?

So what did Dean win and what new ideas does he have? Please don't say the internet, because its well documented that he had little to do with it. I know Kerry has a comprehensive Middle Eastern trade plan to "drain the swamps" of terrorists, which seems pretty new to me, but I don't see anything radical about Dean's ideas except the volume at which he discusses them.

[sandnsea]

39. Thanks! I hope people actually click the link

They'll get to read about Senator Kerry's visit with an 83 year old WWII vet, meet the winner of the Spend a Day with Kerry contest, vote in the scariest Republican contest, find out what Bush would know if he read a paper, and even download graphics for a Kerry T-Shirt! And if that's not enough, click the 'issues' ink to the left and actually learn where Kerry really stands on the issues and always has.

[aldian159]

42. thanks

The guy has been a Progressive in the senate since before I was born, and I'm in college. Plus, unlike Dean, he can beat Bush. I know its a tired topic, but picture Bush debating Kerry (or Clark, my #2) on the merits of Iraqi War. Kerry (or Clark) would own him b/c they were soldiers. I've actually met Kerry, and the man is warm, affable, and articulate.

Thanks

[robsul82]

48. Well...

...as Carlton Banks once said on A VERY SPECIAL EPISODE of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, "We in the same race, brother. Why are you tripping me up?"

Later.

RJS

[realFedUp]

49. I have less respect for Gep, Kerry and Sharpton

because of the way they've gone after Dean on
this one remark.

[blm]

58. Maybe they were offended by Dean's 10m mth. long attack of "Bushlite"

charges against them? Dean telling audiences they voted for Bush's taxcut for the wealthiest when NONE of them did?

How do people rationalize defending Dean when he was clearly the guy who threw the first twenty punches? Why do you believe he deserves the break he would never consider giving others?

[DrFunkenstein]

64. How Many Dean Supporters Aped The "Kerry Was Misled" Line?

Russert: ...and I'll show it to you. You said in January, Governor, "I would be surprised if didn't have chemicals and biological weapons."

Dean: Oh, well, I tend to believe the president. I think most Americans tends to believe the president. It turns out that what the president was saying and what his administration's saying wasn't so. We don't know why that is. So...

Russert: What did you think of Senator John Kerry's comments that President Bush misled the country.

Dean: Well, I thought it was Senator Bob Graham that said that and I agree with that. And Bob Graham is in a position to know. He's a senior senator on the Intelligence Committee and...

Russert: No, John Kerry said the president misled us and...

Dean: Well, I wasn't aware that Senator Kerry said it. I knew Senator Graham had said it in Iowa. But I believe that. I think we were misled.

http://www.deanrocks.com/page.cfm?p=1&c=9

In less than a month (6/22/03 to 7/25/03) Dean changed his tune quite a bit:

''A bunch of the people who voted for this war are now saying, `Well, we were misled,''' said Dean. ''The fact is you can't afford to be misled if you are running for president of the United States.''

[tsipple]

69. DrFunkenstein, We Can Talk About Iraq As Much As You Want

I can tell you that the howard dean campaign would like nothing better than to have John Kerry talk about Iraq as much as He wants, too. Especially in New Hampshire.

(Note: I have taken the advice of one of John Kerry's supporters and changed the system, namely the rules of English grammar, to give John Kerry the respect and admiration he is automatically entitled to, and to give corresponding deemphasis to the doctor from Vermont. Thank you. :-))

[DrFunkenstein]

71. Well It's About Time

I've been talking to several prominent grammarians about that very issue.

As far as Iraq, I don't think Dean really does want to talk at length about that. Because after you get over the initial "I opposed the blank check" stuff, Kerry's plans are - and always have been - much more comprehensive and visionary.

It suits Dean to keep things at sound bite level.

[tsipple]

74. "Several Prominent Grammarians"

I've been talking to several prominent grammarians about that very issue.

(Chuckle.) I laughed! That was very funny. :-)

While you're consulting, can we put in a request for the following style regulations?

John Kerry
george w bush the minor
Democratic Party
Democratic candidate
Democratic nominee
Wesley Clark, Secretary of Defense to President John Kerry

How's that? :-)

On a serious note, the Kerry campaign does need to lose that whiff of entitlement. This is hard work, campaigning and persuading, and nobody gets automatic credit. Even Al Gore had to fight for it, and he was the clear leader in a two-man race.

[realFedUp]

79. I don't berate the candidates I may vote for

I'll vote for the Dem who wins the nomination.
I'm hoping that's Dean.

[Octafish]

73. So, no one is allowed to criticize Dean? Even when it's based on truth?

Those headlines you posted are all based on what Dean said:

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," (Des Moines Register, 11/1/03).

What part is not based on truth?

Allow me to post some stuff on Dean based on what he DID:

Dean got a draft deferment so he could stay out of the US Army and Vietnam. To do so, Dean needed a note and X-ray from his doctor stating he had a bad back. He got it and was classified 1-Y. To celebrate his good fortune, Dean spent the winter skiing in Vale, Colorado. His back continued its seemingly miraculous recovery when Dean, as governor, would hike the entire length of his state.

What part of that is not based on truth?

Here are the links:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/dean/articles/2003/09/21/a_back_condition_wins_dean_a_vietnam_era_draft_deferment/

http://www.aldha.org/howdean.htm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087543/



"My back feels much better."

[tsipple]

75. Sure, Go For It

But realize that campaigning is a fine art. People pretty quickly tune out if you do nothing but whine about your opponent.

There is ample evidence Kerry's negatives are going up, and these attacks are probably why.

I keep forgetting why Kerry wants to be President except that he's not Howard Dean. I know exactly why Howard Dean wants to be President.

[CWebster]

76. Depends on how you want to twist said "truths"

to satisfy your own agenda.

The point is anyone can dig for something and then distort it and broadcast it.

The fact that Dean didn't go to Nam doesn't bother me. Why should it? But I wonder about Kerry who enlisted at a time when most young people were protesting and praying their numbers wouldn't come up. So Kerry went and he came back and led protests against it and testified to the horror and he described the nature of it in front of the Senate:

"I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

And he threw his medals over the fence, as symbols not to be proud of, but they weren't really his medals--they were someone else's, but he let the perception stand that they were his.

Then twice he condemned other candidates in the past who brought up Viet Nam service as some sort of measure of presidential merit.

While his fellow founder of "Viet Nam Vets against the war", Ron Kovics is still speaking in front of massive anti-war rallies, Kerry, who brags constantly of the insight and authority his military experience brings him, couldn't seem to see his way clear through Bush's fraud.

As usual, as with most things in Kerry's world, every move is calculated for Kerry's perceived advantage and his judgement just ain't that good.

[tsipple]

77. About that Vietnam Thing...

The fact that Dean didn't go to Nam doesn't bother me. Why should it?

George W. Bush didn't go to Vietnam, and Al Gore did.
Saxby Chambliss didn't go to Vietnam, and Max Cleland did.
Bill Clinton didn't go to Vietnam. George W. Bush and Bob Dole served.

Democrats are, frankly, hypocrites for arguing that a presidential candidate must have Vietnam service in his resume. We crossed that bridge: Bill Clinton.

For better or worse, that dog won't hunt. Not to mention that Wesley Clark is available for those who think it does.

[Upfront]

78. Screw Kerry

[tsipple]

80. Oh, Come On

He's not that bad.