We are to blame for Zell Miller

[HFishbine]

Oh, the rage! The rightous indignation at that turncoat Zell Miller.

NEWS FLASH: Zell Miller is a symptom, not a cause. He is the consequence of the democratic party's aquiesence to the "center;" of the DLC's disproven theory that the democratic party can somehow survive by repudiating its traditions; that it can win by presenting a barely distiungishable alternative to republicans.

As the mainstream of the party moved to the center, the more conservative democrats moved too. Zell Miller is no further from the party center than before. But as Miller maintained his degree of separation and the party moved to the "muddle" it pushed Miller to the point of complete overlap with the republicans.

Miller didn't cross some unforgiveable line, he was pushed accross it by a party shifting in the same direction.

[mrgorth]

1. I called the DNC yesterday...

and said I was outraged. Receptionist said "we can't tell people what to say". I said "fine. McAuliffe should throw his ass out." She directed me to a comment line. You think any repug would get away with that crap!

[Yupster]

17. McCauliffe should escort Zell

out the door.

And we should lock the door behind him.

McCauliffe's time was up a long time ago in my humble opinion.

[kodi]

2. no way does that analysis conform to objective reality

he went off the reservation because in his eyes the party moved left, not because it remained or moved to a centrist position.

you're grasping at straws and are using miller's remarks to defend your own political positions that the democratic party is too centrist, and you seem to know very little of miller's career down here in georgia.

he is another traditional southern democrat who became a democrat before civil rights, used that movement to remain in power by throwing fig leaves at african americans while remaining true to the old southern democratic power bases of business and strong national defense. the latter two bases have been co-opted by the GOP and miller is still representing his root political base in georgia. this is why miller won overwhelmingly in 2000, and bush is still is favored by 55-60% of georgians

richard shelby of alabama was the same type southern democrat a decade ago as miller is now, and shelby left the democratic party the same way miller seems to be doing.

[HFishbine]

6. Kodi

I lived in Atlanta for a while and even voted for Zell Miller once, so I'm not completely without some understanding of his politics -- although you certainly provide some historical perspective of which I was unaware.

But I don't think your observations are at odds with mine. You note that Miller seems to be leaving the democratic party. Examine that in light of my perceptions and my point would simply be that if the democratic party were more left, Zell would have bolted already. The move by the democrats to the right gave Miller an opportunity to stay in the party longer than he would have otherwise -- it provided him politcal cover. Had the party been more aligned with its traditional progressive views, Miller would have been exposed long ago.

[burr]

9. I agree...

There was almost a compromise on healthcare reform in the Senate called the Mitchell bill, and it had the votes to pass. This compromise almost ended the filibuster being led by Phil Gramm and others. What saved the filibuster? One man's vote....Richard Shelby!

And at the time I knew that man was scum. After the 94' election I was proven correct, because he was the first to switch parties! Now I say the same thing about Zell, and you'll probably agree with me.

[progressivejazz]

14. I remember that vote very well.

And you're right. The man was scum and remains scum. Miller is cast from the same scummy mold.

[kodi]

12. you indicate that the democratic party in the past was more leftist?

i don't.

just because it had presidential nominees like mcgovern, mondale or dukakis does not mean that the majority of democrats were left of center. actually all the aforementioned got beat badly in the election they were in due to significant numbers of democrats voting republican.

the democratic party regulars have never that leftist, or are most people who call themselves democrats. only a minority, albeit a vocal minority espouse leftist causes.

the former head of the GA democratic party just fired a salvo back at miller, it is linked somewhere here today on another thread about miller. it reviews miller's past flirtation with racism, lester maddox, and cronyism.

i grew up in the philadelphia area, where even most republicans were to the left of miller. i saw him for what he was instantly when i moved here to georgia years ago.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. What kind of "leftist" do you mean?

If you're talking about behavioral issues (abortion, guns, gay rights), then, yes, the Democratic establishment is farther left than it was when I was younger.

But if you're talking about economic issues, then the party, with its kissing of corporate ass and its advocacy of corporate "free" trade, is farther right than it was in years past.

You can be both behavioral and economic left, or one and not the other. You can't just say that someone is "too far left" without defining your terms.

[kodi]

18. ask fishbine, he said dems no longer hold traditional progressive views

which i referred to as "leftist".

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Yup.

Seems to me Miller is one of the few remaining Dixiecrats who hasn't switched parties. Maybe he doesn't know how. Maybe nobody else wants him. Who knows?

A lot of people seem to forget how the Democratic party was split for so many years between the northern urban Democrats and the Dixiecrats who rarely had good thoughts for each other.

Even with all the pissing and moaning going on about the DLC, I think we're better off the way things are now.

[mmonk]

11. no true centrist goes hard right

which is where the republicans are now. Centrists don't follow blind ideology. Hence, the word "centrist". However, some may call themselves that.

[candy331]

20. Kodi

I agree completely with you.

[bryant69]

3. This is nonsense

I mean, do you really think Mr. Miller sat in his office saying, "Hmmm the Democratic Party has moved this far right so now I can move even further." The truth is that Miller was always pretty conservative particularly on the sorts of issues that are coming to the forefront right now.

I don't agree with moving to the center, but I do think in this time of madness we need to be the sane alternative. President Bush's policies and the positions taken by those on the right seem increasingly bizarre as they try to contort out of where we are as a nation and how we got here. President Bush's policies have not been mainstream, they have been driven by a far right mandate he imagines for himself.

Zell Miller would have betrayed us no matter where the party was--that's just the way it is.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. I'm not to blame for that piece of shit

But good morning anyway.

[burr]

5. When was Zell pushed across?

He has been zigging and zagging across that line since he entered politics. The Democratic Party's mistake was using his political career as our rolemodel for rebuilding the party.

One more thing...Zell is not a conservative neither, to use his own language. He's an opportunitist, Zell is moderate when it works only for him and a neo-con when it works only for him. He is pro-business when it suits him, and well..anti-labor when it suits his contributors. We do have one thing to blame our party for...nominating Barnes as Governor, and we can blame Barnes for appointing Zell. There were many young Democrats to choose from, and why Barnes picked an old crank like Zell to be Senator will always be a mystery!

[number six]

16. Let's not put the blame anywhere other than at Zell Miller's feet.

No one else is responsible for this wanker.

[Tyler Durden]

8. Dixiecrats were NEVER democrats (note small "d")

Note the vast numbers of them who follow the conzies over to the rePukes. The factionalization of Republics is always one of the most blatant symptoms of imminent decline. Patricians vs Plebeians, it's all the same over the ages.

Zell Miller is as was stated in another post: an opportunist, as are most true RICH NEO-CONS. His weasley behaviour is typical of the breed, and has been part of his nature since the Maddox years.

If as you state he is a DLC/DNC failure, then his actions over the years were at the very least prescient by more than 20 years before the organization you cite makes the condition you trumpet.

The Dixiecrats were NEVER our friends, and the only use Zell Miller ever had was as a counter with a "D" beside it to keep the rolls up.

[Jack Rabbit]

10. Zell Miller's problem with the Democratic Party

Senator Miller's problem with the Democratic Party is that there are too many Democrats in it. He doesn't share the values of most Democrats. He should let the other shoe drop and switch parties. He will be happier as a Republican.

Even given that, I still can't understand why he or anyone else would support Bush. Bush stole the election, uses tax legislation to give the keys of the treasury to his cronies and abrogates the Bill of Rights in the name of national security. Never before has an occupant of the White House so closely modeled himself after a banana republic dictator. If that isn't enough, Bush led the country into war when all of his stated reasons were false and he knew they were false. Most banana republic dictators wouldn't do that. Never in the human history has there been such a national betrayal.

It is hard to imagine, even allowing for the perfidy involved in Bush's ascension to power, an established system of free elections producing a less worthy leader than Bush. Regardless of party affiliation or ideology, any reasonable or knowledgeable person who would urge that Americans embrace this man's leadership should be ashamed of himself.

In my view, Seantor Miller's endorsement of Bush is not merely a betrayal of the Democratic Party and its values, it is a betrayal of America, democracy and the principles of constitutional government.

[leesa]

15. We??? I have never been part of the move to the right. Did you mean the

DLC and the plants put in place in the Dem party by the Republican machine?

[Ficus]

19. Zell Miller

is a confederate. Good riddance.

Do you ever notice though, how the Republicans will discredit their members who do stuff like this, and the Democrats just put up with it. This is why Terry M. sux.

:dem: :dem: