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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:38 AM
Original message
Stars & Stripes letter: We ARE at war based on a lie
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 07:39 AM by lebkuchen
‘No gee-whiz supersecrets’

It seems a few lieutenants at Camp Liberty (where the biggest hazard is tripping over a rock and burning your hand with a Cinnabon coffee) have their facts twisted (“Officer discredited Army” and “Saddam’s lie, not ours,” letters, Dec. 2). We are at a war based on a lie. There are no weapons of mass destruction, there was no Saddam/al-Qaida link, and there are still no gee-whiz supersecrets to Saddam’s arsenal. He was simply bluffing in order to keep Iran in check (a task we’ll have to inherit thanks to our invasion).

Congrats people, we’ve done it again, broken a country and now we’ll have to fix it. And Iraq too! If we were in the evil-regime-evicting business, why not start with Iran? They’re building nukes! How about North Korea? Where are all of the “cowboys” now? We’ve seen all of the faux-patriotic country songs with the videos of tanks and helicopters blowing the crap out of already-half-dead villages and terrified civilians. How about that same video, say, in Tehran, Iran, or Pyongyang, North Korea?

It’s just like a politician said: “Invading Iraq in response to Sept. 11 would have been the same as invading Mexico in response to Pearl Harbor.”

Sorry, lieutenants, kissing up in Stars and Stripes won’t get you your O-3 train tracks. How about using your freedom to think a little bit? Isn’t that one of the freedoms we’re fighting for?

Sgt. Raheim Azadi
Abu Ghraib, Iraq


http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=33863
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ouch. If that is this guys real name, he's in for some serious...
...retribution. Right or wrong, I would imagine his superiors are pretty "non-plussed" with him.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes, brilliant, but there goes his career.
Sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, though. No matter the costs.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Clever way of getting booted out of Iraq?
:evilgrin:
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Uh no, more likely an extended tour there with guys who might frag your
ass, for speaking up.

Whenever anyone in the military signs off on a public letter speaking out like this they are literally putting their life not just their livelihood on the block. These are very very VERY brave people, they are heros and patriots (I dont mean that jingoisticly either, I mean it in a Tom Paine way). I know you were just joshing around but really no one gets booted out of Iraq this way, unless its to Leavenworth for insubordination, conduct unbecoming or any other assorted bunch of clap trap they pull out of the UCMJ to prosecute them with.

Sorry (really) and not to come off harsh here Robert, but we do these brave souls no favors suggesting ulterior motives such as what you stated.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Did you see the letter following that one? 'Lie' letter was no lie
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 08:42 AM by lebkuchen
‘Lie’ letter was no lie

The writer of “War based on a lie” (letter, Nov. 28) was accurate.

Although unfounded and misguided that the “bottom line” was “the security of Israel and lucrative oilfields,” reasons leading to the war were primarily based on the assumption that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction. It was clearly stated in the National Intelligence Estimate “Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons.” In as much, the writer’s statement was not an act of dissent, it was a fact.

The officers whose retorts were published Dec. 2 derived a great deal more than the truth from his letter. “Officer discredited Army” (letter, Dec. 2) stated the writer of “War based on a lie” is in “relative comfort behind forward operating base walls” and took an oath that was taken “freely and without mental reservations.” I fail to see how these affect the truth regarding why we went to war.

“Get out of the military, captain” (letter, Dec. 2) stated the writer of “War based on a lie” “should get out of the military because his country does not need him that badly. I only pray that he is not permitted around soldiers.” Is it really your belief that anyone whose opinion differs from your own shouldn’t be allowed to serve in the military?

“Saddam’s lie, not ours” (letter, Dec. 2) states: “he captain believes we are here to force Western ideas of entertainment and pop culture on these people.” Do we not toe a precarious line when we use war to spread any ideals?

In “Laughable letter about ‘lie’ ” (letter, Dec. 2) somewhere amid McDonald’s, death camps and a book review, I found the statement: “Weapons of mass destruction? Who cares. We took out a dictator.” I completely agree.

It is, however, important we do not forget the real reasons why the war began. In the end, they proved to be without merit.

Spc. Matthew A. Shaul
Kandahar, Afghanistan

http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=33863
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. What's even more interesting is the fact that the letter was even....
... published by Stars & Stripes. One gets the sense that the top people at Stars & Stripes also believe that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, otherwise they could have simply chosen not to publish it.
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. Sgt Azadi, we have a mission for you...
Go check out Fallujah.

No, no, not your platoon.

Just you.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. He's a pretty courageous person for submitting and signing that letter.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. He was responding to this letter: War based on a lie
War based on a lie

Weapons of mass destruction? I’m still looking for them, and if you find any give me a call so we can justify our presence in Iraq. We started the war based on a lie, and we’ll finish it based on a lie. I say this because I am currently serving with a logistics headquarters in the Anbar province, between the cities of Fallujah and Ramadi. I am not fooled by the constant fabrication of “democracy” and “freedom” touted by our leadership at home and overseas.

This deception is furthered by our armed forces’ belief that we can just enter ancient Mesopotamia and tell the locals about the benefits of a legislative assembly. While our European ancestors were hanging from trees, these ancient people were writing algebra and solving quadratic equations. Now we feel compelled to strong-arm them into accepting the spoils of capitalism and “laissez-faire” society. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy watching Britney Spears on MTV and driving to McDonald’s, but do you honestly believe that Sunnis, Shias and Kurds want our Western ideas of entertainment and freedom imposed on them? Think again.

I’m not being negative, I’m being realistic. The reality in Iraq is that the United States created a nightmare situation where one didn’t exist. Yes, Saddam Hussein was an evil man who lied, cheated and pillaged his own nation. But how was he different from dictators in Africa who commit massive crimes again humanity with little repercussion and sometimes support from the West? The bottom line up front (BLUF to use a military acronym) is that Saddam was different because we used him as an excuse to go to war to make Americans “feel good” about the “War on Terrorism.” The BLUF is that our ultimate goal in 2003 was the security of Israel and the lucrative oil fields in northern and southern Iraq.

Weapons of mass destruction? Call me when you find them. In the meantime, “bring ’em on” so we can get our “mission accomplished” and get out of this mess.

Capt. Jeff Pirozzi
Camp Taqaddum, Iraq

http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=32923&archive=true
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I don't think that's correct. He agrees with the Captain that wrote....
...the letter you posted in that the Captain also believes that the invasion of Iraq was "based on a lie", but strongly disagrees with the "lieutenants" that he mentioned in his letter who evidently supported going to war against Iraq.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You're right, but
the letter initiating all the feedback was "War based on a lie." In terms of being courageous enough to write and sign the letter, he's not the only one to do so.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. both letters are important
and I wish this would get more coverage in the MSM. Amazing they were published in the Stars and Stripes. Good to know they weren't censored, and that some in the military no they are getting a bad deal - on so many levels.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Stripes has printed letters like this for some time now.
Here's another:

October 22, 2002

Acts belie concern for troops

Our federal government has recently made a decision that will have our country expanding its war on terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. In light of this decision, I feel that I, as a U.S. soldier, should issue a dire warning to the U.S. public concerning the state of military morale and our prospects for victory.

I’m willing, even eager, to go into combat for my country. I’m willing to fight and even to die to protect the United States and the world at large from terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. In this I am not alone. But I’m considerably less willing to fight for a president who himself lacked the courage to fight, for an administration clearly representing big oil, and for an Army leadership that seems unconcerned with the rights and welfare of its soldiers. In this, too, I am not alone.

Once again, our country’s top leadership is asking us to live and die by principles that they do not possess themselves. The first President Bush was a war hero. Jimmy Carter’s credentials as a humanitarian are stellar. For these men I would fight with all my heart. But for an administration clearly representing the interests of the wealthiest people in America, and for a president with no personal courage or dedication to his country, I’m only willing to obey orders. The difference is crucial. Wars are not won by people obeying orders. They are won by people fighting with passion.

Our current president and vice president are oilmen. Our national security adviser used to be on the board of a major oil corporation. Any examples of volunteer service or charity on the part of any of these people could easily be exposed as having been done merely for the public relations value. Thus we have an oil-rich administration telling us we must invade an oil-rich nation, and to trust these people when they tell us it is in the best interests of our country. The inevitable skepticism that has resulted from this is shared by many decorated and respected veterans, including several retired generals.

In recent months, there has been much talk about the Army’s decision to reduce re-enlistment bonuses. At the same time, the Army is using stop loss to keep its most experienced soldiers in the ranks to fight a war. For those not familiar with how this works, stop loss is the means by which a soldier, who signed up for a specific period of service, is required to extend his or her enlistment beyond this time.

In other words, stop loss is a draft. Soldiers who have fulfilled their obligations, who have done more in the service of their country than their current commander in chief, are required to extend their commitment against their will so that their government and their Army do not have to provide them with the incentives and rewards that they deserve. If soldiers were treated with the respect and gratitude that they have earned, stop loss would be totally unnecessary.

Adding insult to injury, the Army has ordered Special Forces soldiers serving in Afghanistan to shave off their beards and wear their uniforms strictly according to regulation. This was done because aid workers in Afghanistan complained that these soldiers looked like civilians. This, of course, was the whole point. If aid workers in Afghanistan think the Army’s policies make the environment in which they have volunteered to serve too dangerous, they can pack up and go home. The soldiers cannot. The humanitarian mission in Afghanistan is important and honorable, but it’s still the secondary objective. The primary objective requires that our troops be effective and protected from the enemy.

So let’s sum this up. America’s soldiers are fighting for a commander in chief who lacks the courage to fight, for an administration more concerned with oil profits than the well-being of its country, and for an Army with little gratitude for the sacrifices of its soldiers, concern for their well-being, or respect for their rights as citizens. This high-tech military force is now engaging in a long war, on multiple fronts, with a low-tech enemy who fights with fanatical passion and devotion against impossible odds.

The last time we did this, we lost more than 50,000 Americans for nothing. This time we may lose far more. The last time, a small, rather unimportant nation fell to communism. This time, a large, powerful region of the world may fall to something even worse. America’s sons and daughters will die, indeed are dying already, fighting this war. Only selfless and principled leaders can ensure that they not die in vain.

Spc. Adam Redgrave
Camp McGrath, Kosovo

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=12419&archive=true
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. spot on
nail on the head

if you're wondering just when in history some other acts like this might have taken place then i suggest you goto this link :)

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/pol/115776709.html

history repeats itself, yet we never seem to learn

land of the free and home of the brave?

In 1935, two-time Medal of Honor winner, retired Gen. Smedley D. Butler accused major New York investment banks of using the U.S. Marines as racketeers and gangsters to exploit the peasants of Nicaragua.
Later, Butler stated:
“The trouble is that when American dollars earn only six percent over here, they get restless and go overseas to get 100 percent. The flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
“I wouldn’t go to war again as I have done to defend some lousy investment of the bankers. We should fight only for the defense of our home and the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
“There isn’t a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It had its ‘finger men’ to point out enemies, its ‘muscle men’ to destroy enemies, its ‘brain men’ to plan war preparations and a ‘Big Boss’ — supernationalistic capitalism.
“I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.
“I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street.
“War is a racket.” — General Smedley Butler former U.S. Marine Commandant Common Sense November 1935

“The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign policy.” — Ramsey Clark former U.S. Attorney General under President Lyndon Johnson
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TheGunslinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Kudos to a true American patriot!
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. Generals agree with him, ask Murtha.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. The truth can get you in REAL big trouble;
Especially in this context.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Maybe if you've seen enough of your friends get blown away
you really don't give a damn after awhile, especially when Bush himself has admitted his "mistake."
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. Awesome. Best thread of the day.
Recommended! :toast: :yourock:
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