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Dear Gov. Dean -- The BIG New York Times story yet to be told …

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 04:55 PM
Original message
Dear Gov. Dean -- The BIG New York Times story yet to be told …
21 December 2005 (# 16)

Since Friday, December 16, 2005, we have witnessed a President acknowledge spying on American citizens and proclaim that he intends to continue spying on American citizens irrespective of both Federal statutes and the 4th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States prohibiting such action.

The New York Times brought the news of the illegal and un-Constitutional spying, authorized by Mr. Bush, and implemented by the National Security Agency to all of us via their print and online distribution of the article written by James Risen and Eric Lichtblau. While what Mr. Risen and Lichtblau reported deserves the extensive attention it has received, an aspect of their story is also big news – the fact that the New York Times suppressed the story for more than 14 months. The New York Times refuses to report on that action and that is both news and reason for extensive legal scrutiny.

Gabriel Sherman has published an article in the New York Observer that I hope you will read if you haven’t already. It is entitled “Why Times Ran Wiretap Story, Defying Bush.” Some segments of that story include:

That Dec. 6 (2005) session with Mr. Bush was the culmination of a 14-month struggle between The Times and the White House — and a parallel struggle behind the scenes at The Times — over the wiretapping story.

<clip>

In fact, multiple Times sources said that the story had come up more than a year ago—specifically, before the 2004 election. After The Times decided not to publish it at that time, Mr. Risen went away on book leave, and his piece was shelved and regarded as dead, according to a Times source. “I’m not going to talk about the back story to the story,” Mr. Keller said by phone on Dec. 20.

<clip>

Mr. Risen has had difficulties in the past getting traction with Times editors on a disputed topic. In fall 2003, he unsuccessfully pressed for more skeptical coverage of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, to counterbalance the work of Judith Miller.

<clip>

But Times sources said that Mr. Risen’s book does include the revelation about the secret N.S.A. surveillance program. That left Mr. Taubman and his superiors in the position of having to resolve The Times’ dispute with the administration before Mr. Risen could moot their legal and ethical concerns — and scoop his own paper.

Link: http://www.observer.com/pageone_offtherec.asp


So, Gov. Dean, Mr. Risen is informed of an ongoing series of crimes being committed by a Federal agency and authorized by the President. He dutifully begins to write the report of what he’s been told and is prevented from publishing his story by his management.

The crimes continue while his report gathers dust and during that time the person ultimately responsible for the crimes gets a four year contract extension from the people whose rights he is violating. All the while, the reporter, his managers and the owners of the company that employs him remain silent.

When the senior management of the New York Times reaches the point where they will most certainly lose yet another major “scoop,” they finally acquiesce to publishing a report of ongoing violations of Federal law and the Constitution. However, they refuse to report on their complicit cover-up of the violations – a very BIG story.

Gov. Dean, the New York Times, during the past five years has done irreparable harm to America and to the citizens of this Nation. Their propaganda, authored frequently by Judith Miller, enabled Bush and his neoconster regime to deceive and launch their illegal war of aggression on Iraq. They are now obviously willing accomplices of Bush’s violations of FISA and the 4th Amendment.

They must be held accountable. I urge you to assign legal staff to study how the DNC, in collaboration with other organizations, might best assist those harmed by Bush’s violation of FISA to bring civil, as well as, criminal charges against the New York Times for their role in suppressing information about an ongoing illegal surveillance enterprise.

The BIG story about the New York Times must be told – their willing cover-up of Bush’s crimes and their decision to report only when they realized they were going to lose a big-buck story because Mr. Risen’s book was going to scoop them. Mr. Risen’s liability, and that of The Free Press, should also be diligently investigated. All of these folk need to be reminded, by the courts, that a witness to a crime is responsible to report it; a witness to ongoing crimes is in even greater jeopardy if they don’t.

Otherwise, Gov. Dean, the rule of law means nothing and the answer to “America, Or Not?” is a resounding NOT.

Thank you for your continued leadership,



Peace.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. No effin' wonder this country is such a damn mess!!!
This is,...aiding in the concealment of a crime by a news organization,...is just,...

Fuck! I have no words!!!
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. One of the truly sad things
about this is that the NY Times used to have no problem exposing these kinds of stories and being a watchdog on the government for the people. Witness its publishing of the Pentagon Papers, and its standing firm when ordered to stop publishing them by the Nixon WH, going all the way to the Supreme Court, which told Nixon to stuff it. The Times had principles, it had the courage to stand up for those principles, and it recognized, and was proud to help maintain, the vital role the press plays in a free country.

Can you imagine that happening now with the chickenhawk chickenshit repub cowards in charge at the Times? Can you imagine what would have happened if the Times had the "leadership" then that it does now? How far the mighty have fallen. Too, too sad.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll be the first to kick
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 05:07 PM by Gonnabuymeagun
This isn't just lax coverage, the NYT aided and abetted a crime. The proof is in the White House request to kill the story. NYT can't spin this, they knew that Bush commited a crime that was going to cause a lot of outrage and they covered up for him. If they'd covered it when they first got wind of it they might have sold a lot of papers, but they were looking out for Bush's interest instead.

On edit: maybe I won't, but I thought I would give you this :applause:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. The NYT is definitely complicit. Not only did they withhold this story
but they failed to investigate the vote in Ohio. It makes me sick to think if the Dems listened to us about the Ohio vote, and stood up for their voters, we might not be in this mess.

Makes you wonder what else they are sitting on.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. "Makes you wonder what else they are sitting on." -- Definitely!
Peace.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. This bumper sticker says it all about the NY Times:
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 12:39 AM by johnfunk
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Cumulative Index:
# 1 -- Dear Gov. Dean --- America, Or Not?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5531641

# 2 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- Bush knows he's lying ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5541924

# 3 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- Talk about extreme hiking …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5551415

# 4 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- About those “Niger forgeries” ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5560254

# 5 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- On Passing the "Nuremberg chalice" …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5568226

# 6 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- Beyond a wall for “The Fallen Legion” …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5574037&mesg_id=5574037

# 7 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- Let’s take Wally O’Dell at his word …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x404707

# 8 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- “Making it up” … Must Be Stopped
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5593443&mesg_id=5593443

# 9 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- "Accumulated evil of the whole"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5601256&mesg_id=5601256

# 10 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- Just dial 1-800-CALL-SPY ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5608382&mesg_id=5608382

# 11 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- "Same Intel as Congress," NOT ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5611041&mesg_id=5611041

# 12 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- On Concealing Crimes …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5608382&mesg_id=5615989

# 13 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- No One Is Above The Law In America
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5630443&mesg_id=5630443

# 14 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- Why did Bush violate FISA and the 4th Amendment?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5638345&mesg_id=5638345

# 15 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- "From Conservative Scholars to Sigint specialists …"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5647673&mesg_id=5649953

# 16 -- Dear Gov. Dean -- The BIG New York Times story yet to be told …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5660702&mesg_id=5660702


You are free to distribute these and otherwise make use of them without having to contact me. If anyone would like a .pdf compilation of all the letters, just pm me with an email address and I'll send you a copy.


Peace.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Many kudos: have bookmarked
;) ;) My one prayer is that the full story of what this administration has done in secrecy will be revealed to the American people so the countless tens of millions of idolatrous supporters will fully realize what they have wrought upon this nation.
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dennisnyc Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. this all makes it clear (again) that the propaganda model
as the best way to understand and respond to corporate media IS accurate.
(see Chomsky, _Manufacturing Consent_)
If these huge media outlets are claiming to be "mainstream" and "objective" yet continue to serve the "corporate state" (read: fascism) and NOT democracy, then there are in fact things we can do.

I'm doubtful about Dean's desire to take up this fight.

I'm sure of Moyers desire to take up this fight.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. very clear
Better than Manufacturing Consent is Necessary Illusions, which neatly lays out the propoganda model suggested by MC. Necessary Illusions is available on-line, here:

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/ni/ni-contents.html

:)
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank You For Making This Perfectly Clear.......
the NYT is an accomplice. Something has to be done to prevent this from ever happening again. After * is done (impeached) the NYT needs to be slapped and new laws need to come into existence (if there is nothing on the books now to hold NYT or any paper for that matter accountable) then our lawmakers must fill this hole.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick for all to see
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. BTW, Risen's new book is published by a subsidiary of NYT
Free Press is owned by Simon & Schuster (or vice Versa) which is owned by the NYT, (or vice versa)

NYT makes their big money publishing books on good paper, not news on newsprint.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. wmd's, plame and spying on americans. yes i think nyt has
some splainin to do
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. NYT suppressed the story ... they were complicit in the crime.
Aiding and abetting a crime.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Precisely. My next letter is entitled "Dear Gov. Dean -- The Rabid Dogs ..
... Are Cornered...

It builds on the letter in this thread and I look forward to your comments.

We're fighting the worst enemy America has ever faced - an enemy lead by a sociopath whose Oath of Office is the opposite of what he is doing, and he's spending our tax dollars to commit his crimes. Doesn't get any worse than that.


Peace.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. It's Tribunal Time in America.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. Indeed! www.bushcommission.org
Peace.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. Link:
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. possible comparisons?
Robert P. Doyle:
When books are challenged, restricted, removed, or banned, an atmosphere of suppression exists…. The fear of the consequences of censorship is as damaging as, or perhaps more damaging than, the actual censorship attempt. After all, when a published work is banned, it can usually be found elsewhere. Unexpressed ideas, unpublished works, unpurchased books are lost forever.

Adolf Hitler:
All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those toward whom it is directed will understand it... Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise

Adolf Hitler:
In relation to the political decontamination of our public life, the government will embark upon a systematic campaign to restore the nation’s moral and material health. The whole educational system, theater, film, literature, the press and broadcasting – all these will be used as a means to this end

Carl Gustav Jung:
Whenever justice is uncertain and police spying and terror are at work, human beings fall into isolation, which, of course, is the aim and purpose of the dictator state, since it is based on the greatest possible accumulation of depotentiated social units

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. This needs a KICK. MANY kicks.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. from "Three Days of the Condor" - "How do you know they'll print it?"


Turner: I told 'em a story. You play games; I told 'em a story.
Higgins: Oh, you… you poor, dumb son of a bitch. You've done more damage than you know.
Turner: I hope so.
. . .
Higgins: Hey Turner! How do you know they'll print it? You can take a walk… but how far if they don't print it?
Turner: They'll print it.
Higgins: How do you know?
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
47. Hah!
good one. love that flick.



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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. thank you understandinglife....yes they are accomplices multiple times.
Howard Dean's response should be forthright and direct
us all to one mission.

But should he follow Clinton's leadership....Dean will fail miserably.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. Loose ends...
Rove made a major mistake by not having Sulzburger fire all of the non-RWers before this story started. It sounds like there were at least a couple sane, law-abding, and honest people working at the Times while this treason was happening, and that's going to cost Rove and his personal house organ, the NYT, dearly.

Note to Risen: Stay off of light planes for the forseeable future.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. "Rove made a major mistake by not having Sulzburger fire all of the ...
... non-RWers ... ."

Agreed. But, it's not just Rove. The guys driving the neoconster syndicate -- Kovner, Scaife, Ahmanson, etc. -- are the ones telling Pinch and others what to do, and they've been very effective, but not quite effective enough. They won't stop; the law must stop them.


Peace.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. Misprison of a Felony
IIRC, that's what this behavior is. Election ramifications aside, this is a serious crime in itself and this situation could also lead to accessory or conspiracy charges if it were to be properly explored.

Exactly with whom did they meet regarding the article when it was freshly typed? Why shelve this? It makes no financial sense. This story could have been a true October surprise that would have sent the copys sold count through the roof.

There must be some hidden quid pro quo.

-Hoot
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. "There must be some hidden quid pro quo." Precisely.
The WH played the "access" gambit and Pinch didn't have the guts to tell them to stuff their access, the way his old man would have.


Peace.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. And those crimes should definitely be seriously explored!!!
There may also be blackmail or collusion or a whole host of other crimes involved in this situation.

To think a major news outlet would suppress something of this magnitude, activities creating a police state and so blatantly illegal and unconstitutional, is mind-boggling!!! There HAS to be something very dark behind that veil of secrecy by agreement.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Yes, it just doesn't add up.
Why publish it now? To kick start a book? Hell, if they'd printed the story then, the book would have flown off the shelves even a year later. There was no normal reason to sit on it illegally.

-Hoot
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. "There was no normal reason to sit on it illegally." I think the NYT
... lawyers realized they already were in considerable jeopardy for not having reported -- not just to the public, but to the FISA Court!! and other law enforcement agencies -- that they were informed of Bush's authorization of illegal activities by the NSA.

With the book being published, probably with them having done everything possible to convince Risen not to include the NSA stuff, they realized the sooner they published the better -- not for the scoop, not to help book sales, but to minimize their legal jeopardy. Those folk who's rights have been violated by Bush (and every person in his administration and those whom implemented his orders) have plenty of recourse under FISA and I think they will view the NYTimes (especially those who have been under surveillance since the Risen first received the info) as accomplices.


Peace.
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. once upon a time ....
it was decided that as free thinking men, knowing the difference between right and wrong, it simply wasn't good enough to say ... "i was simply following orders"

i read in horror the other day a tale from a marine in Iraq whose team had trained and armed some Iraqi's to defend their own grain store. This marine and his colleagues got to know this band or Iraqi's and made good friends with them, getting to know them personally. This marine then had to watch in horror as a different team was sent in to kill the Iraqi's gourding the grain store, the marine, distraught, went to his superior officer and in tears explained to him what had just happened. His superior said "Son, don't you read the reports? That was another successful kill, 8 more insurgents"

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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. kick
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. More Post-Election Revelations from the NYTimes - an informed electorate
is not their public obligation.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
27. A resounding NOT NOT NOT!
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
28. Hi
You seem like a well educated, well meaning and thoroughly well informed upstanding individual

Do america a favour and run for the big job, clean it from the inside out

That's what its going to take, someone who has a sharp mind, is not financially tied to the big corporations and what's more, has no aspirations to be

oh, a huge set of steel balls and a penchant for corporate bullet dodging might be a bonus :D

But unfortunately it seems that the brand of democracy you have, albeit in the main part unwittingly, sponsored and exported worldwide is now becoming "the norm" for the people of your own nation

Maybe if you had let the military/corporate machine know it wasn't ok and not the right way to go about controlling a largely peaceful nation by scaring the shit out of it, then imposing a dictatorship in place of democratically elected governments ... it wouldn't be happening so fast at home now?

Let's face it, the people who really move and shake the dollars around the world have had years of experience of fine tuning their techniques for controlling a population through fear in order to milk it's worth while under the guise of being a "protector"

and a protector from whom one may ask?

1980 - America trains and arms Osama Bin Laden and gives him 3 Billion dollars

1982 - America gives Saddam Hussein many Billions of dollars to kill Iranians including chemical and biological agents that we provided for him to murder innocent civilians with in 1988

these are just two expamples that might be relevant in some way

other interesting and relevant examples can be found here, if your interested, including some notable commentary from a 2 time medal of honour winner

i propose whoever gets in charge of the white house next declares very loudly "PEACE ON THE WORLD" for starters, then sets about some serious talking with some serious nations who have very real greivances with your foreign policy since the end of world war 2

as long as this history remains supressed there will forever be a shame on america which other nations will want no part of

to say one thing, and do another, is the behaviour of a shyster

where have all the good men gone?
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. link here >>>
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Welcome to DU and thank you for the interesting link. I have little ..
... doubt that I could do the job and be impervious to AEI, PNAC, corporate militarists and their various scams because they don't have anything I want and never will. And, for those simple reasons, they'd never let me get elected because they all know I know the history of their endeavors (as summarized in your link, along with much more), and I would not allow that type of brutal, lawless, imperialistic behavior to continue.

Happy holidays!


Peace.
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. "they"
cheers! same to you and yours!

having read a few of your posts its clear your not an ignorant person, been good reads, striking the right chords and asking the right sort of tough questions

who is this "they" that must be satisfied in order to become elected?

maybe if "they" no longer existed or weilded the influence they do this would be the first step in truly moving forward?

name and shame?

lets use this internet thing for good and let everybody know just who's pulling the strings leading to the demise of our freedoms and the thing our nations hold dear

send a clear message to all peaceful peoples of the world we've nipped this one in the bud early, and are sorry

i know i am sorry for not making a bigger noise BEFORE this all kicked off

another part of me though accepts that no matter how much noise i made i couldn't of made a difference, and i hate that part of me, but im working on it bro :)
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. unfortunately...
i've come to the conclusion that the people who would be most remarkable and excellent at the jobs of Reps and Sens and "other" even on down to local councilman level, are the people who are least likely to want the job. Or the ones who know they smoke pot every couple of weeks, or don't have the requisite "experience" (former job in gov't, graduate degree, etc), or have two kids and wouldn't want their job to jeopardize their family, etc... to truly do well the job of a "representative" in gov't requires a compelling force and committment that is incomparable to other jobs. I work as a volunteer at least 20% of my yearly hours and have been an Americorps volunteer and i'm still considering the Peace Corps. I know i could be an honest and fair Rep but have no desire to put myself out there, not least of all because i want the freedom to make radical life decisions (move to a commune in Wales, start a Cooperative House and change my name to Turtle, build a log home and live sustainably, etc). Personally i prefer to be a creative problem solver , working behind the scenes helping where i can. I've often wondered how well our system of Representation really fares when i consider that the only people we really have to choose from as the voting public are the people that are CAMPAIGNING for the job.
As for "they" well, Primus has got a good song about that...



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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. add to that...
as a pagan and lifelong dem i am amazed i'm saying it, but a recent Mother Jones article makes me think maybe Rep Walter B Jones is that kind of person... you know, never wanted the job really, tried to do what's best for his constituents (no excuses for his early support, but i can see why he voted the way he did), not tryin gto make lotsa cash, goes to work like it's a job, etc...
anyway, just a thought.
yikes, can't believe i said it about the "freedom fries" guy...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. Where have all the good men gone?
The political game has become one based upon the rule of the jungle. Most good men stay clear of it. However, good men and women are gonna' have to conjure up the courage and commitment to take it on, if we truly want to change the direction of this nation.

I enjoy your posts, YourBrother.

Glad you're here!! :hi:
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. so true
hi there and thanks :o)

we can make it happen, as a collective, they are banking on people being afraid

i'm not afraid :hi:... are you?

it would appear "their" plan to bring western nations together under the common hatred of arabs has failed miserably, is unraveling faster than they can spin new webs

the rackets been exposed, everybody knows, only the state tv is still repeating the same rhetoric/official line

it really is a different world once you open your eyes eh :D

have a happy holidays :woohoo:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
29. Has everyone heard Kerry's comments on this, on whether his campaign
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 10:43 AM by mod mom
was listened to, and his comments on the OH election on the Ed Schultz show? If not, here is a link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=406201&mesg_id=406201

:woohoo:
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. kick
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
31. Calling Elliot Spitzer, I believe a crime has been committed.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
32. this is why rove set dan rather up!! to shut nyt up!! and all the editors!
we all guessed why rove set up dan rather..but this is the story they wanted shut up prior to election...rove was sending a warning..that if he could take down dan rather..no one was safe...the shot heard across the bough...

this is a real conspiracy....but one brought about by unseen ( by U.S. citizens)threats!

this "was" the October surprise..but it was unseen by American citizens!

we need all the editors of nyt under oath...and now...we need the records..the dates, times and cast....before they disappear...we need someone to subpoena their records..but what is the possibility of that???????????
can a regular citizen file a lawsuit against nyt? for witholding this story and this crime??? and therefore subpoena their records of meetings??

fly
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. Very disturbing about the NYT if true and reliable - how reliable is
"The New York Observer"?
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. The NYO article contains info also found in the LA Times and WaPo
Critics Question Timing of Surveillance Story

The New York Times, which knew about the secret wiretaps for more than a year, published because of a reporter's new book, sources say.

By James Rainey, Times Staff Writer

The New York Times first debated publishing a story about secret eavesdropping on Americans as early as last fall, before the 2004 presidential election.

But the newspaper held the story for more than a year and only revealed the secret wiretaps last Friday, when it became apparent a book by one of its reporters was about to break the news, according to journalists familiar with the paper's internal discussions.

<clip>


The initial Times statements did not say that the paper's internal debate began before the Nov. 2, 2004, presidential election — in which Iraq and national security questions loomed large — or make any reference to Risen's book, due out Jan. 16.

But two journalists, who declined to be identified, said that editors at the paper were actively considering running the story about the wiretaps before Bush's November showdown with Democratic Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.

Top editors at the paper eventually decided to hold the story.
....

More at the link:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-media20dec20,0,5110926.story?track=mostemailedlink


At the Times, a Scoop Deferred

By Paul Farhi
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 17, 2005; Page A07

The New York Times' revelation yesterday that President Bush authorized the National Security Agency to conduct domestic eavesdropping raised eyebrows in political and media circles, for both its stunning disclosures and the circumstances of its publication.

<clip>

The paper offered no explanation to its readers about what had changed in the past year to warrant publication. It also did not disclose that the information is included in a forthcoming book, "State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration," written by James Risen, the lead reporter on yesterday's story. The book will be published in mid-January, according to its publisher, Simon & Schuster.

The decision to withhold the article caused some friction within the Times' Washington bureau, according to people close to the paper. Some reporters and editors in New York and in the bureau, including Risen and co-writer Eric Lichtblau, had pushed for earlier publication, according to these people. One described the story's path to publication as difficult, with much discussion about whether it could have been published earlier.

More at the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/16/AR2005121601716.html


Apart from the issue of what would have happened if the article appeared before the November 2, 2004, National Election, the message of my letter is that knowledge of crimes (committed and ongoing) and violations of the Constitution was witnessed and not reported -- to law enforcement officers and the FISA court.


Peace.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
44. Pressing this (possibly criminal) case against the NYTs
is important. It goes to the heart of the corruption of the American Press, and therefore, to the heart of the corruption of our democracy.

Thanks, UL.

:kick:
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YourBrother Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. BOOM
by jove he's cracked it ;)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Welcome to DU, YourBrother
:hi:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. .
:kick:
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
54. We can't rely upon Dean - it has to be their subscribers....
They will only start listening when it hurts their pocket book and their subscribers start complaining to them.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
55. Dean could easily have been our prez had this came out when it should
or at least Kerry.

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