********OFFICIAL CSPAN-2 PATRIOT ACT DEBATE THREAD PART 2*********

[ncrainbowgrrl]

First one's over here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5612357

[sabra]

1. so the Dems got the 41+ votes needed?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. i think they are at 40. one more no and it fails. YEAH!

That timing of the NYT article was - - - unusual?

[ncrainbowgrrl]

5. Leahy would be #41, no?

[The Witch]

6. expect the talking heads to be on about the liberal media :P

[FreedomAngel82]

101. Oh this is wonderful!

Go Feingold!!! I <3 Feingold!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

2. kick

:kick:

[The Witch]

52-43 my count

ok, where are the other 5 of you.... i haven't heard feingold or leahy yet

[ralps]

9. They might have voted at the beginning

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[Ioo]

3. 41 No's means that they fo not have clocher...

I think 100, need 60

[TahitiNut]

7. Cloture. Cloture. Cloture. Cloture. Cloture. Cloture. Cloture. Cloture.

[The Witch]

11. :--------)

from one copy editor to another :hug:

[TahitiNut]

17. I take pride in ignoring it the 1st 4-5 times. ;-))

... but I have my limits. :silly: (A man's gotta have his limits. - Dirty Harry)

[meganmonkey]

8. Note: This is NOT the actual vote on the act, it is a vote for cloture!

There seems to be some confusion...

[kansasblue]

18. Failure of Cloture mean debate continues....

and the bill is stalled, Our victory!

[FreedomAngel82]

105. Yay!

Love it. I'm listening to Jeff Sessions now. Is he for real? And I love how in the act it doesn't say who or what a "terrorist" is. Little old ladies who are quakers are now terrorist's? I can't believe any of them are defending this piece of crap!

[stepnw1f]

So Then They Need 60, right?

cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/cloture.htm

[Bluerthanblue]

27. i'm totally confused- do

they need a simple majority for the vote to vote???

geez, what a circus-

[meganmonkey]

60. Well, they need 60 votes to END debate on the bill

If they get 60 votes then debate is over and they will vote on the actual bill, if I understand correctly

[Bluerthanblue]

92. thanks, what do they need for

the actual vote, do you know??? simple majority?

[ticapnews]

10. Who is left?

Bayh, Cornyn, Schumer? Did Leahy already vote?

[The Witch]

14. cornyn voted aye, i didn't hear the other two

[ticapnews]

34. I don't see Stabenow listed on the first thread either...

Schumer was standing right there so he must have already voted.

[wtbymark]

20. I heard Leahy was a no

[...of J.Temperance]

12. Ben Nelson of Nebraska needs to fuck off...I absolutely hate the pig

He NEVER votes with us...probably because he is ACTUALLY a Repuke.

Senator Landrieu voted No, so I'm happy.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

15. Nelson of Florida voted no... good for him!

:-)

[...of J.Temperance]

24. Good :) We need him...we need him to be re-elected as well

He's 100 times better than Cruella de Ville would be.

[FreedomAngel82]

108. Yay!

Nelson of Nebraska needs a nice chatting with to some Arabs who have been put in prison for no reason whatsoever.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. and Hagel voted NO!

If Hagel feels it is safe to vote NO for Nebraska, why wouldn't Nelson feel the same? It is a bizarre fucking vote on his part.

[FreedomAngel82]

116. Very weird

Hagel has been more democratic than Joe Libermen which is very weird which I don't understand and confuses me. :crazy: How did Lieberman vote by the way?

[The Stranger]

23. Get rid of Nelson. Support his most promising primary opponent.

Send a check, do some flyers, signs, spread the word.

[kansasblue]

25. He is a Dem in Rep state. The whore is doing what he has to do

[...of J.Temperance]

38. He's NOT a Democrat, his voting record shows he's a Republican and

Yes he's already in a Red State, so he should have no trouble running for re-election as what he is...a Repuke.

Why the heck does Ben Nelson keep the (D) when we all know he's an (R)?

Ben Nelson is the new Zell Miller.

[Ioo]

13. I think BURR was NO, Not sure what Byrd is (Carry from the other thread)

[...of J.Temperance]

16. Somebody said Byrd voted Aye...but I'll have to double check n/t

[Ioo]

21. She sounded like she said BURR (R)...

I thought Byrd was very anti PA anyway

[cry baby]

33. I thought I heard Byrd say aye early on in the voting, but I could be

wrong. It would surprise me if he voted for cloture - he is such a strong believer in the Constitution.

[cry baby]

47. I guess I heard wrong...WHEW!!!!!! Byrd - NO!

[ralps]

29. Yes he did vote Aye

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[Ioo]

31. So Byrd has not voted?

[Avalux]

42. Byrd just voted NO n/t

[ralps]

44. Byrd just voted no so I guess that other vote was someone else

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[kansasblue]

45. Byrd NO !

[Bluerthanblue]

49. just heard her say Byrd no- then Allen aye...??

[kansasblue]

32. that don't seem right, J.temp

[BR_Parkway]

19. Burr from NC? He must have been confused, he's never voted

against the party that I know of.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

40. yeah, seriously- this would be a first for me to be proud of my senator!

[BR_Parkway]

54. He probably thought it was "No, don't let those evil libruls have their

way" or something.

[TahitiNut]

Byrd = "No"

[realFedUp]

26. how long is this vote?

some arms being Fristed?

[The Witch]

28. awright stragglers, i'm postponing my lunch break cuzza you....

hurry the hell up!

[The Witch]

41. that WAS byrd and that WAS no

thank gawd. the dean still rules.

[doublethink]

30. Mr Doublethink ..... No....

I know my vote doesn't count but it felt good anyway. ) Just tuned in, does this mean they will continue to debate this thing till the cows come home? The Repubs can't pull the nuclear option on this right? Can they go into their holiday recess without taking the final vote to extend the reauthorization? Peace. :)

[Wordie]

64. This is interesting. If they don't get cloture, and vote instead for 3 mo.

extension, will Bush not sign it??? LOL...he couldn't not sign it, could he?

[doublethink]

Nope I don't see how he couldn't not sign it .....

:) interesting ... yes.

[Ioo]

35. Byrd NO!!!!

[Ioo]

39. Frist must be pissed right now... He wanted to give PA to * for XMAS

[cry baby]

53. How fun is it going to be when * has to sign the 3 or 6 month

extention when he said that he wouldn't sign. I am going to laugh out loud!

[Nite Owl]

Byrd, no

[ticapnews]

36. Byrd, No

.

[Wordie]

37. I think they were successful...that report about the wiretaps probably

helped a lot, if so. So hard to wait!!!!

[Greeby]

43. Byrd no

:)

[ticapnews]

46. Allen, Yes.

.

[mb7588a]

48. wtf, byrd? no?! nt.

[ticapnews]

Yep. Frist just changed his vote to No

So he can move the motion later.

[RSchewe]

61. Cloture out OUTTA HERE!! n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

81. you were right- what the f. is the

rush to make this act permanent-???

this sure does put my paranoid tendencies on alert-

[doublethink]

109. Yea like what's in the cards during recess ...... ?

something leading to Iran? Tighten your tin-foil hat for the holidays! I don't trust these guys either. Not one bit. Keep the faith though, never give up never surrender! Peace. :)

[Ioo]

50. Frist = No? (Is this a stunt)

[TahitiNut]

68. It's a parliamentary ploy ... prevailing side can move for reconsideration

It's unlikely to be a successful ploy but they do it occasionally.

Yes... as you see right now he just moved for reconsideration. Now they'll table the motion for reconsideration.

[The Witch]

51. 53-44 not even close to invoking cloture. life is good.

:party:

[The Witch]

frist just changed his vote (here's why)

so he can move to invoke cloture again. that means he knows he's lost. :)

[TahitiNut]

52. Frist = "No" ... parliamentary ploy and concedes failure of cloture.

[Avalux]

59. I heard him mutter "it doesn't matter" in the background.

:rofl:

[ncrainbowgrrl]

65. Hahaha. Sucks to be you, Fristy.

[janx]

71. Frist is such a snake!

His agenda is so clear.

[TahitiNut]

72. He just moved for reconsideration.

The Senate Rules preclude another (new) cloture motion for (I think) 48 hours ... and the motion to reconsider, in effect, circumvents that limit.

[ROakes1019]

55. 40+

They have way over 40. I stopped counting at 40 but have several "no's" since then. Not to invoke cloture means the bill is dead for now. Frist just voted no so he could reintroduce the cloture motion. He had said Bush would not allow the 30-day extension on the bill so he's up a creek without a paddle. Bush and his ultimatums are finally getting called.

[kansasblue]

56. frist no? I'm soooooooooo confused

[Greeby]

57. Frist no

Don't be fooled, he did this with the Bolton filibuster, so he can bring the vote up again at another time

[ralps]

58. Frist- no -I guess he voted no so he can bring it up for a vote again

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

66. FRIST NO; 47 no! YEAH! ! ! ! !

Ah, Frist wanted to reconsider the vote.

[TahitiNut]

76. Yep. Maneuver. See my #72 above.

[ticapnews]

62. 52-47. I love the smell of filibuster in the morning.

It smells like...victory...

[ralps]

63. Aye 52 -Nay 47

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[Greeby]

67. Ayes:52 Nays: 47

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[JohnnyCougar]

69. Yay Feingold! Way to lead the opposition!!

[realFedUp]

70. The President won't sign an extension.

He will if we hold the pen.

[derby378]

73. Signs of life on Capitol Hill...

All of a sudden, that USA PATRIOT Act doesn't seem like such a slam dunk, does it?

[janx]

77. Times are a-changing,

as they say... ;-)

[stop the bleeding]

74. so we are winning???

Give Mommy a Kiss....

[ticapnews]

80. Better than that

we won!:)

More to the point, Democracy won big today.

[helderheid]

85. HOLY CRAP!!!! I went to go pick up my son from school - and I come home to

this! YEASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ticapnews]

75. When the roll call is posted, this should be the link

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00358

Nothing there yet...

[merbex]

78. You know Frist keeps giving the Senate's authority away

first to the White House now even to the House

"The House doesn't want an extention of the Patriot Act"

Who the fuck cares?

You are the SENATE

He knows how to follow leading is beyond him

[ticapnews]

84. He is ceding power to the White House

because he still thinks he's going to occupy it in 2009...

[merbex]

96. He's got a better chance of hitting megabucks

as we say in MA:)

[BR_Parkway]

94. Even Dobson and crew know Frist is no leader - just someone

they can use by dangling the 2008 nomination carrot out there. Hey Frist? If you know from being on the inside that ReThugs will fuck over anyone to get their collective way - why would you think they wouldn't do the same to you.

You're like the 2nd wife who was the girlfriend while he was married the first time, but now you're surprised that he's cheating on you too!

[Lyle]

79. ok- so where does this go from here? n/t

[Avalux]

86. debate continues - filibuster!!!

:bounce:

[Greeby]

87. Spector wants to put a three-month extension

First says the House doesn't want it, and Shrub will veto it. The sunsetted Patriot Act clauses expire on Decmber 31st. And as this is the last day of business for the year, if another cloture vote fails, the Patriot Act is toast :toast:

[Idioteque]

It looks like Frist is gonna force a real filibuster. n/t

[ticapnews]

88. There will be some more debate sometime...

and when/if Frist thinks he can win, he'll move for cloture at that time.

[merbex]

90. Feingold rules

more debate which equals more damaging disclosures for the B* administartion regarding their disregard for civil liberties

[Pithy Cherub]

82. Good - now the corporate pundit press has to talk about this defeat!

:woohoo:

Senator Feingold, you are an amazing American Wonder! :party:

[kansasblue]

83. The vote was to not to end debate, thus stalling the bill! yeah!

[Walt Starr]

89. Frist is forcing this into an actual filibuster

If debate is not ended, he wants them to conitnue debating it.

Now into Quorum Call.

[cry baby]

107. I hope Sen Feingold goes to the men's room before he gets to talk.

Seriously, will it come to one person speaking for an extended time? Or does that only happen in the movies?

[Walt Starr]

113. Nope, debate continues

which means ALL the Senators continue.

[cry baby]

117. Is there another time limit, like before the cloture vote, it was an hour

[Walt Starr]

118. That was my point

there was no time limit set.

[BR_Parkway]

110. he needs time to run over to the WH to ask what he's supposed to

do next.

[cry baby]

91. Jeffy is disappointed...aaaawwwhhhh.

[alcibiades_mystery]

99. Sessions up there whining like a two-year old

Somebody call the waaaaambulance.

Talk to the Republicans that voted against cloture, you piece of shit.

[cry baby]

102. his voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

eeeeeeek!

[ralps]

100. Awww, Poor Jeffy

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[cry baby]

103. wwwaaaahhhhh, I want my mommy...waaaaaaahhhh

[Wordie]

93. Did Leahy earlier say something indicating that a 3month extension wasn't

possible??? I didn't quite catch what he was saying. The 3 month extension seems like such a good idea to me. Frist says no to the 3 month extension.

Seems to me that with the new reports about wiretaps, all the previous votes and discussions are made moot. Those previous discussions were made with the understanding that there were NOT abuses going on.

Sen. Sessions just doesn't seem to get it. Yeah, lots of info is available to law enforcement, and should be. But NOT in secrecy!

[cry baby]

97. Frist says that the pres won't sign a short term extention.

blackmail

[Skidmore]

95. It is amazing to me that so many Rs would hang on to these

measures when there is such blatant violations of existing law and civil rights. It is amazing to me that they continue to support * inspite of the lies and disregard for the constitution. Are they blackmailing them or they just plain greedy.

[Armstead]

98. GOP not allowing temporary extension -- Scummy hypocrites

A compromise to allow a three month extension to continue to work on the bill is rejected by Frist.

That way the GOP can say "The Democrats voted for the terrasts" while the GOp would also allow the entire act to be killed if this holds. Deceptive double dealing bastids.

[BR_Parkway]

104. It needs to die - and the more people hear about the illegal wiretraps

and other spying activities going on inside the US against other Americans - the more who will be glad it's gone - including the true conservatives of this country.

[Bluerthanblue]

111. whoever this bozo is on now-

obviously hasn't heard about the illegal wiretaps-

[Armstead]

112. Personally I wish it would die, but we're stuck with something

The real issue is the White House/GOP are trying to ram through a "no questins asked" permanent extension.

[janx]

106. That is EXACTLY what's going on.

How much more transparent can it be?

[lonestarnot]

114. portions dead now?

[ralps]

115. Corzine speaking now

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[maddezmom]

119. locking

continue here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5613052