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We've already LOST the war in Iraq

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 09:54 AM
Original message
We've already LOST the war in Iraq
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 09:56 AM by Walt Starr
Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we determined that only U.S. government approved candidates could be on the so-called "ballots" in the latest farce being called an election in Iraq, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when the Iraqi Civil War broke out, yet we refused to acknowledge there was even an Iraqi Civil War under way let alone do something about it, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we pushed through acceptance of an Iraqi Constitution that was reliant upon Sharia Law, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we forced a government upon the Iraqi People and declared it "democracy", but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we had a corrupt governing of Iraq whereby we "lost" billions of dollars that were intended for the rebuilding of Iraq, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we allowed the looting of archaeological treasures, explosives, and weapons to occur, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we determined that oil wells were more important than the security of our soldiers, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we relied upon a criminal in the form of Chalabi for "intelligence" about what was going on in Iraq, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we invaded with no plan for what to do after the Hussein government was toppled, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we determined that an exit strategy was unnecessary, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when it was determined we should invade with half the force necessary to maintain order after the invasion was successful so we could do it on the cheap, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when photo opportunities replaced meaningful strategies, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when embedded journalism was determined to be the best way to report the war instead of actually telling the truth, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when we determined that diplomacy was a "quaint and outdated" methodology for solving diplomatic issues, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when our government determined the United Nations was irrelevant to the issue, but they'd be wrong.

Some would say we lost the War in Iraq when our president uttered a lie in his State of the Union Address in the form of sixteen words, but they'd be wrong.

Nope, the AMERICAN PEOPLE lost the war in Iraq when they stood by and allowed the Executive Branch of the government to spew deadly lies to the Legislative Branch of the government in a desperate attempt to score political points just before mid-term elections.

And the American People deserve every last thing they get from this awful mess that the American People allowed to happen.

When it comes down to brass tacks, the American People have precisely the government they deserve. By refusing to hold politicians accountable. By refusing to participate in the process through which our elected officials get that way. By tacitly standing back and saying that anything is okay. By ignoring real issues for silly wedge issues that are both meaningless in the long run and are specifically designed to divide the American People in the short run, the American People allowed themselves to be thrown into a war of choice and allowed themselves to be defeated in a war of choice for the second time in history.

We can't blame Bush. We can't blame Kerry. We can't blame Congress; we can't blame the SCOTUS.

The only place to put the blame is squarely where it truly rests, with the American People.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. would someone please tell the President ? n/t
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. If the words "loss" or "victory" have any meaning, yes.
Bush keeps dumbing down "victory": two good cartoons this week, one showing Bush lifting goalposts and moving them to where the football is, and another showing a man shooting an arrow at a wall and then drawing red circles around the arrow.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's all about 9/11.
Images of planes crashing and buildings falling were just so riveting (read: entertaining) that all Wal*Mart shoppers were hooked. After that, the Bush cabal could pretty much sell any kind of cockamamie scheme they had dreamed up.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. I believe we lost the war when we allowed Iraq to degenerate into chaos
and our soldiers had orders to stand around and do nothing. That and our using torture. Bushco doesn't care about winning, only prolonging the war and saving face.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Or
have we won it since Hussein has been toppled and there were no WMD's? Now they will vote, so all that's left is to come home. Of course, permanent bases and unending war until we control the resources of the Middle East is the real goal. But as far as the lies perpetuated on the people, we can call it victory and leave.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Everybody's to blame but you, eh, Walt?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. OK, the war is lost and Americans are to blame... can we stop the war now,
PLEASE, so that Americans will be free to help us here in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast before the rest of us die this Winter?

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Sadly, it looks like the American People want to lose New Orleans, too
We collectively seem to be ignoring the desperate issues New Orleans faces because other things have come up, like a war on Christmas.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. There is so much money to be made from war in iraq for such a small group
of people.

That small group was relentless in their drive for war.

We can blame the people and the politicians. But let's not forget that the people who benefit the most from this war are the people who wanted it the most and that however we apportion blame we shouldn't forget to make sure a huge heap of it is on their doorstep.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. And it still comes back to the American People
We are the ones allowing the criminals to profiteer of a war of choise, ergo, we are to blame.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. If it makes you feel better, I guess.
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 10:58 AM by 1932
But I think that if we lose our sights on how this happened politically-speaking and economically-speaking, then we're doomed to keep repeating the mistake.

It's like the movie Syriana. Have you seen it? When you leave it, you don't think, "God damn the American voter for letting this happen! They deserve everything they get!" You do leave the movie with some insights into global politics and economics that do explain how this shit really happens, and you realize that it's going to take much more, structurally speaking.

Yes, how we vote is critically important. And for many of us who care to pay attention, we wonder how people keep voting the wrong way. But you know what? Gore wasn't so different on ME politics than the Bush administration and if more people voted democratic, then the people with billions at stake would find even more nefarious ways to get what they wanted, and saying "voters deserve what they get" will contribute to the continuation of the misery for the inhabitants of this planet.

We need more clear sighted and effective strategies than blaming the victims to solve this problem.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I still blema myself and evrybody else for allowing it to happen. n/t
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I agree with Walt Starr!!! The only way to stop what is going on is...
through the American people. The American people sit back and let this war continue, at our expense and the lives of our soldiers and the Iraqi people, with hardly a murmur. Power also comes with numbers and if the people stood together and proclaimed the war must end and end NOW, it would happen. This "shit really happens" because the majority of people let it happen and that is what "people with billions at stake" are banking on and they won't stop until WE MAKE THEM STOP!!!
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Immad2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. I must humbly disagree with the premise "We lost the war" What war?
This was an invasion and occupation and still is. I wish people would call it what it is "Bush's Invasion"

As for "We can't blame Bush. We can't blame Kerry. We can't blame Congress; we can't blame the SCOTUS.

The hell we can't

If I remember, Al Gore, actually won the 2000 election. Wasn't that what the American people wanted? Didn't SCROTUS change that? Everything the main-street media has put forward as "news" since then has been half-truths, falsehoods or just plain out and out lies (Faux News) and if you don't belong to DU then you probably would never know the truth.

"The only place to put the blame is squarely where it truly rests, with the American People"

I refuse to accept that, sir. I am an American and have voted the Democratic ticket for the last 32 years and have expressed my Democratic views almost weekly to my representatives in congress. I (and believe that everyone at DU) has and will continue to do everything in their power to rid the government of the "Culture of Corruption" that exists today. So, please, do not paint everyone with that brush.

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