Drilling in the Wyoming range?

[montana500]

www.wilderness-sportsman.com


"JACKSON -- A Bureau of Land Management oil and gas lease sale slated for Tuesday will auction a 1,280-acre parcel in the foothills of the Wyoming Range that conservationists say will likely jump-start other suspended leases in the area.

Peter Aengst with the Bozeman, Mont.-based Wilderness Society said some leases on federal land in the area west of Merna were suspended in recent years as developers said they needed more acreage to drill to make the area economically viable for gas extraction. Those developers were involved in persuading Bridger-Teton National Forest officials to release acreage in the area for possible lease sales, he said. The BLM handles oil and gas leasing on national forest lands released by the Forest Service for that purpose.

"It's the dark secret on the Bridger-Teton," Aengst said. "This new leasing by the Bridger-Teton in the Wyoming Range is not only about expanding the existing area controlled for oil and gas, but it's also potentially the key to unlock the door to allow more drilling on existing leases."

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hippiechick]

2. Sure, let's tear down Dick's ranch and drill there.

Assole. Let's see how he likes having his habitat razed ?

[klook]

3. Key opportunity for Dems

Note that these are Wyoming hunters and fishermen who are pissed at the Republicans. Environmentalists and Democrats should be working to find common ground with these people to oppose the turnover of public lands to mining companies and other private interests.

Have you hugged a hunter today?

[montana500]

4. this is the entire voting block for western red states...

I dont think people realize how important an issue this is.

[fishwax]

82. I agree

it could be a huge issue for dems in the mountain states, the kind of alliance that could change the political landscape completely ...

[TX-RAT]

5. Thats all? 1280 acres

we're talking 2 square miles.

[montana500]

6. 2 square miles in a roadless area is a big deal.

That's rare turf.

[TX-RAT]

7. Where exactly is this area? What makes it so rare?

[montana500]

8. It's in NW Wyoming.

Roadless areas (roadless areas are places with 3000 or more acres without a road). Roadless areas are the wildest places in our country, harboring most of the sensitive megafauna. They also act as "air purifiers" for our country, and provide clean drinking water to 60 million Americans. Most of the lower 48 is heavily roaded and trailed. That is why roadless area are valuable both for economic reasons and social reasons.

Here is a pic from the Wyoming range:

[TX-RAT]

9. Are those pictures of the 1280 acres, their talking about?

[montana500]

10. the drilling is in thw Wyoming range, and that's the Wyoming range

so one would expect it to look quite similar.

[TX-RAT]

11. Just as i thought.

Why wouldn't you post pics of the actual area we're talking about?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AuntPatsy]

14. Well I don't see myself as a troll and I know for a fact that the

area my son was drilling in in Wyoming looked vastly different from your picture, his pictures he brought back pretty much showed the rig surrounded by vast open plains..

I can say I am a bit bothered by misinformation concering the drilling since his rig was constantly being targetet with bomb threats, he was simply doing his job in order to support his family..

He wasn't hurting anyone so why would others threaten to hurt him and therefore his children who would have been effected had he been killed by someones need to bomb the rigs in Wyoming because they are upset they are drilling there...

do you consider my worries about such misinformation on such subjects to be trollish?

[TX-RAT]

16. Thank you.

Seems some have no problem trying to destroy Wyoming's largest source of income. I personally worked as a production consultant on wells all over wyoming for about 2 years, none of the area's looked like the pictures posted.


(area my son was drilling in in Wyoming looked vastly different from your picture, his pictures he brought back pretty much showed the rig surrounded by vast open plains..)

Ancient sea beds have a tendency to look that way.

[AuntPatsy]

18. Your welcome, I have spent time in Wyoming, it is not all

wonderful woodlands as some are being led to believe. Production consultant huh? I more than likely know you and you me, we won't name names, those in the oil business are looked on as the enemy at times, it's kind of silly since everyone I know uses the product.

[TX-RAT]

22. Coldest 2 winters i ever spent in my life.

Never knew the chill factor could get to 100 below. That north wind was a killer. Your son still in the business?

[AuntPatsy]

24. The whole family is in the business and the coldest I ever

experienced would be here in Texas, funny that when I was in Canada in the early eighties when we went up there to drill I walked around with a light jacket on much of the time and yet my car would freeze solid?

Hard to explain that one..

But I hear you on the chill factor, it becomes more prevalant out on those open ranges than when one is safely nestled inside a wooded area...big difference..and of course the needed wear was altered when I found myself in out in the open with little or nothing to block the windy chill that can definately penetrate even the thickest of insulation at times.

[montana500]

28. geography

"wonderful woodlands as some are being led to believe. Production consultant huh? I more than likely know you and you me, we won't name names, those in the oil business are looked on as the enemy at times, it's kind of silly since everyone I know uses the product."


The drilling is taking place in a roadless area of the Wyoming range in the more forested part of the state (northwest).

[montana500]

29. misinformation

"Seems some have no problem trying to destroy Wyoming's largest source of income. I personally worked as a production consultant on wells all over wyoming for about 2 years, none of the area's looked like the pictures posted. "


Stopping drilling in a roadless area of the Wyoming range is "stopping Wyoming's only source of income"? Let's be realistic.


"Ancient sea beds have a tendency to look that way."


Many of those ancient sea beds are also funnels for the largest big game migrations in North America.

[TX-RAT]

34. OK lets be realistic.

I said largest source of income, not only.


(Many of those ancient sea beds are also funnels for the largest big game migrations in North America.)

Which ones? Just how would it stop or interfere with migrations?

[montana500]

35. The Green River valley is being hit, and hit hard

Local Wyoming hunters and fishermen are starting to really fight this. and when you start drilling in rare roadless areas it's going to cause more problems.

I will be happy to post the info for you later today.

[TX-RAT]

86. I will be happy to post the info for you later today.

No need to, just answer the question you were asked.

[montana500]

87. so you don't like learning new things?

nm

[TX-RAT]

88. I take it your not going to answer the question.

Or maybe just un-able?


Let me ask another.
What is your definition of wilderness?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

32. Your son is destroying the environment,?

Spoken like someone who hasn't a clue, when it comes to oil or the oil business. When you come off your pedestal, please explain exactly how he's destroying the environment.

[AuntPatsy]

37. Believe it or not, I have had this same discussion with some

so called Conservatives who felt the same way as Jara...strange times.

[AuntPatsy]

36. Ummm, your being a bit unrealistic you know, I would assume

that you drive a vehicle, you do realize that many believe that action to be destruction of the enviroment, hairspray is another no no that is linked to enviromental destruction to name one of soo many..

Thats a pretty rude comment you know but it's okay...

stand your ground, and continue to drive your car, enjoy...

[montana500]

27. well...

"area my son was drilling in in Wyoming looked vastly different from your picture, his pictures he brought back pretty much showed the rig surrounded by vast open plains.."


That's not *in* the Wyoming Range. Unless you have something to prove otherwise.....




"I can say I am a bit bothered by misinformation concering the drilling since his rig was constantly being targetet with bomb threats, he was simply doing his job in order to support his family.."



I'm sorry but I simply don't believe this.


"do you consider my worries about such misinformation on such subjects to be trollish?"


I honestly don't believe anything you just said.

[AuntPatsy]

38. lol, honestly? Well, it's easy enough to look up and search

such actions out that did indeed occur.

Of course believe what you will, but it might bother you to know that such is the complete truth, I have no need to lie on a computer no less, whats the point? I don't come on all that often.

[TX-RAT]

15. Troll? Your the one posting deceptive pictures.

Just so happens i'm failure with that area, and the Wyoming oil business. The pictures you posted, look nothing like the area their trying to lease out. Just looking for a little honesty.

[Jara sang]

17. How are you familiar with the Wyoming range?

have you ever been up in there?

[AuntPatsy]

19. He already stated he has as have I and my family...

[TX-RAT]

21. Yes i have. And most of the rest of Wyoming.

Hunted deer and elk there for many years, long before i ever had to work there. After i retired i took a job completing wells for small independents. Worked on wells from Rock Springs, to Sheridan,Gillette, Casper, Laramie, and Douglas. Worked on wells in Nth Dakota, and Montana during that same time period. Haven't done it in years, but i can assure you the terrain hasn't changed.

[Jara sang]

23. Wyoming would be a beautiful state

If it weren't for all the Republican assholes ruining the pristine environment. Wyoming, I love the scenery but I can't stand the jack offs that live there.

[AuntPatsy]

39. Why are you being so hostile? Its a first for me on this board..

Its kind of interesting in it's own way since I am thinking your upset because your not exactly knowledgeable about the oil field in some respect.

Not all oil men agree with this prez you know, its very limiting for you to believe such without knowing a bit more of such people that work in that area.

[AuntPatsy]

25. I can imagine the trophies you have lining your walls...

I didn't realize there were that many indpendents left, it's good to know, lately it seems more are popping up but still, the competition can be as fierce as it ever was..

Some good people left that area of experience never to return during the last real crunch that hit, too bad, it left too much room open for some that in my mind began taking the breath of life out of what was once a field many retained pride in....

Sadly, there are few of those old schoolers left, I miss them, they were a great bunch of people...

And form the pictures my son brought home, it doesn't look like it's changed all that much since the last time I was up that way..

[montana500]

30. How are those deceptive pictures>?

The drilling would take place in a roadless portion of the Wyoming Range. Those photos were from the roadless portion of the Wyoming Range.

Why are you having such a hard time with this?

[AuntPatsy]

44. We have drilled some wells in Canada that was indeed

inside woodland areas, but none that I know of personaly were done in Wyoming, not saying they might not have been, all I can tell you is of my own personal knowledge..

In many ways, the oilfields are much more strict on being enviromentaly safer than most camping sites...

No stretch there, it is the truth, granted accidents can and do occur that can harm certain areas, but they can also come from factories, a camping fire not attended properly, etc, that can in effect have long term consequences for a landscape...

[montana500]

52. ok...

"In many ways, the oilfields are much more strict on being enviromentaly safer than most camping sites...
No stretch there, it is the truth, granted accidents can and do occur that can harm certain areas, but they can also come from factories, a camping fire not attended properly, etc, that can in effect have long term consequences for a landscape..."


Your bias is showing ;)

[AuntPatsy]

54. Its not biased, its the truth? Do you have any idea how the land

owners keep on the rigs to ensure they do not wreck their land? I know many that ensure they visit the rigs at least once a day making sure trash is not being thrown about, spills taken care of immediately etc, and you don't argue with landowners I promise you, they can be a handful.

[Jara sang]

13. The Wyoming range is beautiful.

Just south of the Tetons. I camped out up there when I lived in Jackson. It's a wonderful place because the tourist don't go there. Not many outside of that are have even heard of the Wyoming range. This is really sad.

[AuntPatsy]

20. You know, I find driving through East Texas to be beautiful as well,

considering there are miles of unwashed wilderness even though desert it is still beautiful, until of course you come upon the miles and miles of those huge windmill white monsters that ensure electricity is available to all in those areas..

Sometimes, such is a neccessity for survival though, so one has to be careful of what one complains about.

[montana500]

31. East Texas has no wilderness

Again there is some real misinformation being spread here.

[AuntPatsy]

40. lol are you serious?

[AuntPatsy]

42. I appologize for my lost direction...

[montana500]

46. Serious as can be. Simple facts.

nm

[AuntPatsy]

41. Darn bad me, lol your right, I meant west Texas...oops...

I have some beautiful pictures of that area, along highway ten heading into new Mexico.

[montana500]

47. west Texas has no wilderness.

Starting to see the problem with drilling in rare roadless areas that have a chance to be wilderness?

[TX-RAT]

49. Maybe you should visit the Big Bend area.

[montana500]

51. Big Bend is a national park.

nm

[TX-RAT]

85. I'll type real slow this time.

I said the Big Bend area, the actual Big Bend national park is only a small part of that area. I'm talking about an area thats close to 20,000 sq miles. It runs east to west, from Van Horn to Del rio, thats almost 200 mile. It run north to south, from fort Stockton to Rio Grand village, almost 100 miles.

[AuntPatsy]

57. Do you seriously believe west texas has no wilderness areas?

If I may be so bold to ask, have you ever been out that way? If that's not wilderness area, I am not sure what else would qualify..

[montana500]

58. Do you honestly believe it does?

Please stop forming conclusions from emotion, and instead use research and facts.

[AuntPatsy]

61. I not only believe it, I've experienced it up close and personal?

No conclusions but facts.

[montana500]

63. The only wilderness in west Texas is in a national park.

Other than that area, there are only 4,000 roadless acres (unprotected wilderness) in all of Texas. That's very poor.

Here is a map of the nations wilderness areas:



http://www.wilderness.net/index.cfm?fuse=NWPS

[AuntPatsy]

66. NOT TRUE, try running out of gas cause you stupidly did not stop

believing one would be forthcoming the first time one traveled that way...

Major wilderness areas in west texas but absolutely, breathtaking stunningly beautiful wilderness.

[montana500]

70. That's not wilderness.

"believing one would be forthcoming the first time one traveled that way...

Major wilderness areas in west texas but absolutely, breathtaking stunningly beautiful wilderness."



Look, I dont want to be rude, but you are basing your conclusions on emotion and personal hunches rather than the facts.

There is NO wilderness in Texas. Please understand this fact. Texas is NOT a wild state. Wyoming is.

Look at the wilderness area map for your answers. Heck, Texas doesn't even really have any roadless areas. The most it has is 4000 acres! That's dismal. It's not a wild state.

[AuntPatsy]

73. Ive traveled throughout these United States and Canada..

i would definately consider that area of Texas to be wilderness just as easily as I would view certain areas of Wyoming to be wilderness...

If you don't think Texas is a wild state, you have yet to travel through it..;-)

[montana500]

78. You are not using logic

I just linked to you the wilderness map of the United States. Please read it.

You seem to be confusing "country side" with wilderness. Wilderness areas are the wildest places we have. Texas really doesn't have any of those. It's not a wild state. It has roads and development through almost every part of it.

[AuntPatsy]

79. Granted it layman's terms it would more than likely not be

seen as wilderness but if your lost on one of those back roads with nothing close to civilzation showing itself beside blacktop, you would surely feel you were lost in the wilderness would you not?

[montana500]

83. hmm...

"seen as wilderness but if your lost on one of those back roads with nothing close to civilzation showing itself beside blacktop, you would surely feel you were lost in the wilderness would you not?"

Personally? No I would not. I would probably feel I was in a neat place in the country, that could be semi-wild (which I would have no problem camping , fishing and enjoying) but it wouldn't be wilderness. Wilderness is defined as a place with no roads over 3000 acres. And that's why people get upset when folks push to drill in rare roadless country - because it's something you can't ever get back.

I will say that Texas has some scenic and neat country areas, and it's certainly more varied and pleasing to the eye than the state I live in(Illinois). But for the most part it's not a wild state. You would need to look NW to New Mexico to start seeing that crop up (national forest roadless areas).

[fishwax]

81. I've driven through west texas, and it's beautiful

but it isn't wilderness.

I've driven through manhattan, and it's beautiful.

but it isn't wilderness.

I've driven through the plains of Wyoming, and it was beautiful ... and like the panhandle of texas on a moonless night, it can make you feel very alone in a very empty world. But it wasn't wilderness, either.

It's very hard to drive through wilderness, because there are no roads.

I've hiked up in the Wyoming Range, and it was beautiful. And it was wilderness.

[TX-RAT]

43. LMAO

Guess you never heard of the Big Thicket.

[AuntPatsy]

45. That one is confusing me, I'm not used to being called a liar..;-)

[montana500]

48. that's not wilderness. simple facts.

It's not very wild, either.

now you begin to see the problem with ruining rare roadless areas because of drilling.

[TX-RAT]

84. The main problem

The main problem with this conversation, is it's only a wilderness, if its meets your definition of wilderness. Whats funny here, is TX has more road less land,( state land, private ranch's, 102,380 sq miles according to TX DOT)than the entire state of Wyoming, 97,203 sq miles. If your definition of wilderness is inaccessibility to land or road less land, then TX wins hands down.

[mitchtv]

33. As a long time enviromentalist supporter

I should really care. But A state like Wyoming deserves everything they get. Elect more republicans! get those gays to stop marrying!

[The Whiskey Priest]

50. I love that they are crapping on the Red States

I know we are all losing pristine land…but lordy, I hope all the outdoor types that voted for Bush have to wade through sludge to get a shot at Bambi.

[mitchtv]

53. Hahahaha

Wait for smog to develop

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. So the hunters won't get a shot at Bambi because the sludge will

do in the wildlife first. America the Beautiful. :cry: Thanks a lot, you value voting idiots!

[montana500]

56. it's true. Alot of hunters are pissed they voted Bush.

For alot of people, it takes walking up to your hunting spot and seeing it filled with drill rigs to wake up.

[AuntPatsy]

59. Are you against all hunting as well? And I know many that

hunt in oilfield country and haven't heard them complain yet?

[montana500]

60. no I'm for hunting and hunters (smart ones anyway ;)

nm

[AuntPatsy]

62. Well that we can agree on, thank you for that;-)

In many areas, hunting is encouraged and for obvious reasons.

[The Whiskey Priest]

64. No....hunting is fine....I am just against voting for Bush or any Rethug

and love it when those who vote that way are biten in the shorts by those they voted for...let the good times and sludge roll in the Red States...I want every piece of government Red State land posted "no trespassing owned by Haliburton or Carlyle Group."

[mitchtv]

65. I don't object to SOME hunting

Like the business it is, however, there must be regulation.

[AuntPatsy]

67. Nothing wrong with regulation....it helps to keep the nuts at bay,

[mitchtv]

68. I am also against canned hunting

Prohibition against.

[AuntPatsy]

69. Im at a loss, what is that?

[mitchtv]

71. shooting turkeys tethered to a log

Shooting retired show tigers, illegally purchased zoo animals. Newest permutation is killing exotics remotely with a web cam. Add aerial hunting of wolves to that category, Bullfighting , too.

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. My god! That is horrible! nt

[AuntPatsy]

74. I am ashamed to admit I know of such that have experienced that style

of hunting, it is horrible...

[mitchtv]

75. Texas?

[AuntPatsy]

76. Yes

:hide:

[mitchtv]

77. I think we need a hunting thread

rather than Hijack this one. Sorry OP'r

[AuntPatsy]

80. I have the most incredible exotic head above my fireplace...

at first I was horrified considering the way it looks and it's size but after a while, it grows on you, it is beautiful, I try not to think about the reason it is there...