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Manchester Union Leader: Howard is more than just hype

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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:57 AM
Original message
Manchester Union Leader: Howard is more than just hype
The Manchester Union Leader is trying to come to terms and understand what the Dean Phenomenon is all about. Here are a few snippits:

Howard Dean is for real...Dean leads in the polls in New Hampshire, Iowa and Michigan...A lot of Democratic party leaders are at a loss to understand how Dean could have come out of nowhere to achieve a lead over the more established candidates...Cheif among these (the reasons) is a deep hatred of President Bush and the war in Iraq...Many in the Democratic party base also resent Bill clinton for spending eight years compromising with Republicans...Dean's momentum, based largely on a sense that he can be trusted to bear the liberal flag while others cannot be, is going to be hard to beat."

http://www.theunionleader.com/opinion_show.html?article...

I don't know if I agree with all of this. I think Dean is a strong liberal on some issues but not on all. I think his supporters realize this (at least the many I have spoken to). But I do agree that Dean was able to tap into the anger Democrats have with the party leadership for the perception that they have been too compromising with Bush.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. His speech on the economy
I printed out his speech on the economy yesterday so it'd be easier to read. Just for the heck of it, I took it home for the dh. Told him he didn't have to read it if he didn't want to. He did read it and was impressed.
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diplomats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm not sure I agree, either
I don't think it's correct to pidgeonhole Dean as a liberal flag-bearer.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think you both should actually read the article
I did, and didn't get a sense that the article was saying he is a liberal, but rather -- as you can plainly see -- that many Dems feel he's the best one to carry the nomination. Again, read the article.

Eloriel
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm voting for Dean, but I wasn't a liberal until...
...the neo-cons told me I was post-9/11. It's not Dean's liberal nature (true or not), it's his stalwart opposition to and anger toward Bush's unjust and corrupt administration. He's not afraid to call them on the virtual waterfall of shit cascading down the steps of the White House. And that's why he's going to win the nomination, and that's why he's going to be our next president.
In short, Dean is a LEADER. He's someone Democrats can get behind. And that's what Democrats need more than anything.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I think you're correct. Dean has tapped into the anger that's been ignored
and dismissed, marginalilzed, demonized, and sneered at. He's tapped into that and given it the voice nobody else has. Everyone else was busy tip-toeing around, trying not to upset anyone. Dean came right out and said what needed to be said. And he said it about the war, too, back when it was considered "unpatriotic" to be against the war. That's when everyone else was offering apologies and excuses, or trying to have it both ways, or trying to appease the bushies. He didn't.

That's why I'm still a Deanie.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think of him as someone with strong stands on the issues, period.
He is fairly conservative, fiscally, but dammit, I am too. I don't want massive budget deficits that risk our future and the value of the dollar. OTOH, I do want national health care. Some see that as fiscally irresponsible, but IMO, it's more fiscally responsible than continuing to throw away our health care dollars on an absolutely broken system.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. You know I think we really need to put an end to this...


idea that not spending like crazy, crashing the economy, and robbing the tax payer's blind is a CONSERVATIVE position. Because it is not and Dean makes that point over and over.

No repuke has balanced the budget in 30+ years.

I love that line, if you want to live like a republican, you need to vote democrat. Because it is true. These guys, conservatives, have no economic plan other than to see how much they can stuff in their own pockets.


We need to take back the badge of the economically responsible party that the repuke have ripped off along with our surplus.


And on health care... we face far greater costs from the uninsured being unable to pay for treatment. We pay those costs regardless... because when someone gets treatments and can't pay, those costs are covered by raising costs on everybody else. That's why a 4 dollar ace bandage at the hospital is 45 bucks.

We pay in lost work productivity, lost resources, higher costs, and greater health problems.

I heard Dean make a great point, that if someone could go to a doctor for a regular free check up and get a little infection treated early with some pills... that's a hell of a lot cheaper than waiting six months and having to treat that guy in an emergency room when he has gone septic or gotten a secondary infection or disease... and likely has made other people around him sick as well.


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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. The reason they can't understand Dean is they are stuck in old thinking.


They are still trying to understand this as a liberal vs a conservative.


The reason Dean is doing so well isn't because we all think he is a liberal. It is because he is very strong on some liberal views, and on the issues where he does compromise, he does so to achieve progress, not just to pander for support from a given group.

Look at his position on guns... he does not do ANYTHING to get rid of or weaken existing gun control laws, nothing. Yet he has an A rating from the NRA simply because he doesn't support more federal laws.

That's a position that attracts moderates and centrists, while not driving off liberals. On the issues Dean is strong, but not devisive.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. An "A" rating from a right wing organization like the NRA
should be throwing up a BIG RED FLAG for anyone who calls themselves a Democrat. This is a big deal issue, and Dean supporters are hiding their heads in the sand about it. It WILL drive off liberal voters. It is one of the primary reasons I can't support Howard Dean. I do not want state governments making gun law. Period.

We already have a situation here in Colorado where our lunatic Republican state house is forcing state gun laws on cities like Denver.

Dean's policies may play well in rural America, but it won't play well in the urban areas - and let me remind you - rural America went for Bush, urban areas vote Democrat. Attracting moderates and centrists in places that are going to go Republican anyway is not a good strategy. Losing votes in urban areas is even worse strategy.

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. See, I don't "support" the NRA
per se, however, I'm a big believer in the 2nd Amendment. I'm paranoid about our government becoming fascist- but then, on the other hand, seeing Bush in office, maybe I'm not so paranoid after all. In fact, to tell you the truth, I'm really big on the Bill of Rights, and I thought that Dems were too, so it's always confused me that they were for really strict gun laws.
I understand your view and I'm not arguing with it. What I'm saying is that I believe that there's plenty of room in the Democratic party for those who don't support really tight control on guns. And I think that at the very least the gun issue isn't one of the most pertinent out there today. We've got bigger fish to fry.
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Its not just guns


The NRA doesn't lobby for just the 2nd amendment. They lobby for all legislation involving animal rights and public parks.

Two issues where I (and all Liberals ) should be ostensibly opposed to the NRA. They thinking is archaic and Dean manages to get an A rating?

If this is ONLY because of Deans desire not to produce more gun laws fine, but I fear Dean -if he's an NRA whore- would turn out national parks over to hunters driving out other people who enjoy national parks (campers, hikers, kayakers, bird watchers, photgraphers, etc)---which OUTNUMBER HUNTERS by a staggering margin....

Would Dean have passed the bear-baiting bill? No, its probably NOT important how we massacre bears in this nation to you, but it is to me, and many others. Would Dean (MR. NRA A) have banned the practice of bear baiting? Something the NRA fought against and won by a single vote in congress.

Once I get my list of questions for Howard Dean I will send them to the proper people to get an explanation. I do like Howard on some things, but he worries me on the environment, guns, death penalty.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I support the 2nd amendment
I've owned guns. I used to hunt. Although my feelings on that have changed, I would not deny anyone else the right.

Being for gun control is not being anti-gun or anti 2nd amendment. This is a meme the NRA has been very successful in implanting. I want it to be harder to get guns, especially handguns. The NRA wants to make it easier. The NRA's positions are extremely right wing, and not just on guns.

Gun control is far more pertinent when you live in the city. I've lost track of the number of times I've heard guns go off within a couple of blocks of my house.

A couple years ago we had an ex special ops Vietnam Vet living next door. One day he went off the deep end, took a hostage. Cops running around, weapons drawn. They told us to get inside and lay down on the floor. It was resolved peacefully; but then it turned out he had a weapons cache in his basement. Scary shit.

It made me re-evaluate a lot of my thinking about guns.

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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. I agree...
Dean is more than 'hype'. He's the real deal. He's forever changed politics and will go down in history as a great man no matter the outcome of this election.

I am proud to support him.

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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't believe he is perfect
but I believe his motives are sincere and down to earth and he will work hard and do his best for us. I believe at this time he offers our party and the country the best of all possible worlds--potential electibility and the potential for change.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dean has demonstrated that the real adults are taking notice
of the way the Children currently in office are behaving and expousing an adult view on how to correct what is wrong. We need to get some adults back in charge in all areas of government. Enough of the WWE experience.
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