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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:26 AM
Original message
Young Conservatives of Texas to create professor "watch list"

A conservative student organization is compiling a list of UT professors who the group accuses of misrepresenting information to fit political biases.

The UT chapter of the Young Conservatives of Texas began accepting nominations for a "Professor Watch List" on Tuesday, with plans to release a printed roster on the West Mall and online of professors who teach biased or unbalanced courses during the spring 2004 registration period. Preliminary registration for the spring semester begins Oct. 27.

snip

Though Kinghorn said the list was inspired by a "widespread" liberal bias, YCT would also accept nominations of overly conservative professors.

"This is a non-partisan list," he said.

YCT plans to visit the classes of nominated professors and to review their syllabuses and required reading material before adding them to the list.


http://www.dailytexanonline.com/main.cfm?include=detail...

I have not decided how I feel about this yet. If it was a neutral group doing it I might not have a problem with it, but somehow I think conservative professors--and if you go to the business school you will find plenty of them--will get a pass.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bush Jugend
Enforcing ideological purity since the Bloodless Coup of 2000 and the birth of the Amerikan Empire.
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DrBlix Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. It's the duty of all
Teachers, professors to present to the student body all views of any given subject and let them evaluate and come to their own conclusions.
.
It's call education.
.
To stifle this process is censorship.
.
When will they start hanging professors and burning the books.
.
Universities of late have come under fire for inviting speakers that have a different view than this administration.
.
Also there is a problem when anyone discussing the ME objects to Israel and most are labelled anti-semitics.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
70. HAHA!
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 06:01 PM by Must_B_Free
Also there is a problem when anyone discussing the ME objects to Israel and most are labelled anti-semitics.

you tinfoil hat people :tinfoilhat: make me laugh! :7

</sarcasm>

Seriously, though, I don't know what was in those deleted messages, but it was probably inflammatory. People who are scholarly on the subject and present information only are not messed with.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, do student groups get to choose professors now?
I never heard of that. This is going along with Heubeck's writing about the attacking of the left. His writings are at Free Congress, and will curl your hair.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
56. No, but students do select the classes and profs they will take.
One of the things you do in college is select your courses. Profs get reputations, and as much as possible you select the ones you think will be best. Nothing new about that.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #56
85. Actually at large state schools,
I think many students take what they can get unless they are ok with taking 5 or 6 years getting a 4 year degree.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Congratulations
You are now the first name on my ignore list. That was the most elitist post I have ever seen. My feelings are "irrelevant"? Did I ever say they should be banned from doing it? I do have the right to have a problem with what they are doing, even as I respect their right to do so.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Hey, DNA. Quit being rude, please. There are other people here.
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DNA Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Sorry you find the first amendment rude.
I happen to find it quite civilized.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I love ya man.... Talk mean to me some more.
You are so bright and wonderful you make me all tingly inside!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. THANK YOU! I Knew you wouldn't disappoint me! Demean me some more!!!!!
I am in awe of your maturity, your wit...


I mean, you are so fuckin' cool!

Post a picture so I can build a statue!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Gawd YOU ARE Great! Slam me again, Dude!
The "Ballet Pink" thing is great!

But, you see, I'm so dumb, I can't figure out what you're alluding to. Could you spell it out for me?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Damn, you're sharp!
But please, tell me more about how I'd look in the pink ballet outfit again... It positively gives me a chubby!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Have you ever thought of going professional? You have the talent!
And how did you figure out I was a "Republican Willy?"

Sherlock has nothing on you! From our brief little love letters, you have figured out that I'm a homosexual Republican. Wow!

Could you tell me how I can get your autograph? I stand in total awe.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh, don't be coy... "I'm certain you look much better in ballet pink"
from your message #28... You know what you meant. PM me and maybe we can get together for a mimosa or two?

And golly gee, you are just so dead on. I guess you blew my cover you little scallywag! Amazing that no one but you has figured that out in the over 3000 posts I have here.

See if you can grab the cheek before he stands up!


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Deleted message
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Thanks for the fun, DNA. But you bore me now and I award you with
a first.

In over three thousand posts, I have never placed anyone on ignore.

You will be the first.

You have actually convinced two people in one night to place you on ignore.

I guess that's quite an accomplishment.


A final word of advice: You can argue a point that is different than others without making it personal or disparaging. I didn't really disagree with the 1st amendment point you were making before the hijack, but I did disagree with the manner and mean-spirited way you made your point.

Be nice.

G'bye!
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Newcastle Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Having read the thread
I think the meanspiritedness was coming out of both ends, if you know what I mean.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Maybe a little.
I got a little cranky at comments to Bluestateguy as well as others on other threads and then the reaction to a request for a tad of decorum.

I shouldn't have played it quite as long as I did.

I take back the bart I sent you!

Peace
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
58. Biggest . "moran." Ever. :)
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Most pathetic response
Ever
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm sorry....
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 02:45 AM by Billy_Pilgrim




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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. Having the right to say something, doesn't make it right to say it.
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. They don't have full freedom
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 02:06 AM by sleipnir
Sorry, UT is a PUBLIC school run by the state, not a private college. State schools do face greater amounts of scrutiny and censorship. Academic freedom, right or wrong, does not fully exist in a State University. The government can control a professor, they can just express their ass out of there (unless they have tenure, much more difficult.) Any overtly radical conservative or liberal prof, could get the ax, for little reason...Sadly, it usually only happens to the liberals...
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DNA Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. You have that just about backwards, buddy.
In fact, absolutely backwards. Professors at private universities are under far greater constraints than professors at public universities. In fact, at public universities, because they are public, governments can NOT dictate content of lectures, discussions, etc.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DNA Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. This pisses you off?
Professors at private universities are under far greater constraints than professors at public universities. In fact, at public universities, because they are public, governments can NOT dictate content of lectures, discussions, etc.

Hmmm, you're mighty sensitive. You might want to take a look at the contracts signed by professors at public universities. Those will really piss you off!

Why are you people so pissed off by the truth? Strange, you watch Fox News as if your lives depended upon it, yet you're pissed off if someone tells you an actual fact. The U.S. is doomed!
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
87. There was no such language in my contract
at my public university. There is a section in the faculty handbook about "academic freedom."
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Bring it on!
I have noticed increasing activism in the College Republicans at my university. They are under orders from David Horowitz, that famed liberal hunter.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sieg fucking Heil!
Why doesn't fucking Texas just secede from the Union and form their own fascist little reichlet? Then we can take a page from their friend Sharon and build a wall around the shithole. And they can definitely have Shit For Brains Jr. back!

(Texas liberals will be allowed to immigrate, of course :-) )
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
39. They did
We wouldn't let them leave.

They died by the thousands from Little Round Top to the sunken road at Sharpsburg to Chikamagua, to Mansfield, Louisiana to the last battle in Texas trying to leave the United States. They were forced back in at gunpoint.
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elfwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
65. Thanks
Because I'd really hate to be walled in with the assholes and the rednecks.
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MinnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. there are so many things wrong with this.....
...it's hard to know where to begin.
scrutinizing faculty to see that they pass litmus tests is dangerous ground. Will profs temper their lectures to see that they're inoffensive to EVERYBODY? Will the 'young conservatives' have any background in the subject being taught? Who will decide which profs are off the wall? If he just looks kinda like Che Guevara will he make the list?
Will they also look for inappropriate relationships between profs and students? Or same-sex relationships? (Horrors! THOSE people would certainly be leftists, wouldn;t they? Better write them up...for their permanent record.)
OK, so what happens when somebody makes the list? Will they be expected to undergo re=education and take part in self=criticism groups? (see: 'Killing Fields' from a right-wing perspective.)
this is just nuts, and unAmerican to boot.
You got a beef with a prof, write a letter to the editor of your campus newspaper and leave it at that. Forget the naked attempt to skew campus politics to the right.
What a bunch of crap. They'll be well-financed, though, I'm sure. If they have copier expenses Richard Mellon Scaife will be happy to send them half a million.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Cool!

It's time to stock up on marshmellows. For when they go over to burning books.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. These young conservatives sound scary
Now give me another good reason NOT to go to college in Texas, shhhhhhh if they find out I own the communist manfesto they could ask for my head.
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lynndew2 Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. JohnKleeb Is A Communist!!! He is a holder of the manifesto and
Is pinko, commie. He is also a Great guy!!!!
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Rocinante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Holy mother of pearl
academic freedom under attack? Well I'm not surprised, all of our freedoms are under attack and will be gone if chimp & co. retain power.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. This is nothing new...
http://www.campus-watch.org /

Meet Campus Watch. Coming to a college campus near you!
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Michael Harrington Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. No, this isn't new at all.
Ah, yes. Dan Pipes and his creepy little group of acolytes. Read that churlish article there about Edward Said. I wonder if Pipes actually physically showed up at Said's funeral and attempted to dance on the coffin?

Reed Irvine tried most of this junk early in the Reagan junta. He had obnoxious students (like those charmers at The Dartmouth Review) sitting in and interrogating Professors who didn't toe the line.

You get the idea that these people have a sneaking admiration for the Cultural Revolution.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
27. It's college
Kids are supposed to do this kind of stuff in college.

I was editor of the college course guide where we polled students on the teachers and published the results. Great stuff. I remember one quote... "The professor does well despite the handicap of senility." I also had a wife of a professor scream at me over the phone because we rated her husband poorly.

It wasn't very scientific, and probably wasn't fair, but we were college kids doing our best.

The students loved it, especially the part about which teachers were the hardest and easiest.

So, to sum, my opinion is, let the kids do teir protesting and have their fun. When else will they ever get a chance to do it?
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
30. We have entered a very dark age...
Wish I could be more optimistic, but there just seems to be a tsunami of this kind of "you-there-step-to-the-left" crap.

In the past, I've often preached at others who have threatened to get out, but as time passes, I'm not so sure myself that staying on in this country is a good idea.

Clearly, the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
46. So?
It ain't no big deal. It is their freedom. 1st Amendment ya know. Liberals can make the same kind of list. Remember, the list has ZERO official standing. At the most is will simply mean that some students will avoid some professors. Chill out. The best thing to do about that list is to ignore it.

A long time ago, but I remember one professor I had who taught his politics instead of the subject material. Since I was of the opposite persuration, I would research the material more just so I could challenge (respectfully) his points. In fairness to that prof, he did not grade me down for disagreeing with him.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. If you think this is harmless you would have felt right at home in the KGB
and the Gestapo. This is nothing but fascist intimidation. You may have a right to do it but that does not make it right.

Is this the kind of country we want to live in? A country where you get intimidated for speaking you mind? Conservatives want only their point of view out there. Just like the cable news you want only conservative points of view to be presented.

If you had a real good thing going you wouldn't have to do that because people would flock to your side. As it is you can only get that by stifling the other points of view.

Shame on you!
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. The 1st Amendment is not selective
The ONLY way we can defend our own rights is to defend ALL rights. There is no other way. If students want to make a list of profs they don't like, so what? They are private citizens jointly expressing their opinions. Remember - It has no offical standing at all. If you want to shut down their list by some sort of official action then someday that offical power may be used against you.

So some kids make a list. What are you afraid of? I am extremely confident that the UT administration is NOT going to take anything on that list into account in any of their decisions.

Further, if we waste time getting worked up over trivial stuff like this, we divert time and energy from important things. This is a lot of noise over nothing.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. It's called a watch list. Why? Who is watching and for what purpose?
It is facism pure and simple. It ought not to happen. These things can grow into dangerous things like McCarthyism, blacklists, hate, ..............
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #68
84. The answer is obvious.
They can call it whatever they want to, it doesn't change the fact that it is a list that has no standing. The most that will happen will be that some students will avoid listed profs, and some will take those same profs because they are on the list. Mostly it will be treated as a joke on campus and laughed at. For us to get upset over it is being a Chicken Little. The sky is not falling. We have more serious problems that need our attention.

What action do you propose? Outlaw conservative campus organizations? Restrict their free speech? If you do that, how long do you think it will be until liberal organizations and speech are then threatened. Free speech is messy. It means that our opponents will say things that we don't like.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. I don't sat to outlaw them, but be aware of them and the consequences
I think they should be publicly critiqued, as we are doing here.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
47. Even in Texas, the "Young Conservatives" aren't the majority...
They're generally considered out-of-step dweebs. The "list" might make some of them feel important & will give fuel to parents who think their little darlings should attend Cut'n'Shoot Christian College, but most of UT will ignore them. There's the party contingent, going to school on their parents' dime (Jenna, is that you?)--THEY don't care. The majority work their way, study hard & manage to have a bit of fun, too.

This issue of the Daily Texan features Sam Alexander, also known as "Sciborg Sam" (of "Sciborg Sam & the Robopimps"): "A 1998 alumnus of the UT business school, Alexander took an elective astronomy class where the focus was extraterrestrial life; it was there that his own life took a turn toward the extraordinary.

"For his final project, he wrote a paper that later transformed into a science fiction novel, 'Sciborg Sam and the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence,' which he printed himself and sold more than 500 copies of around the country."

They interview him at a gig--he repairs motorcycles for a living, with music, writing & costume making as sidelines. "'There's nowhere else in town where you're going to get this type of thing,'he said. 'Remember, you're either part of the freaks, or you're part of the boredom.'"

www.dailytexanonline.com/news/531650.html
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
48. "FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE PROFESSORS"
God I f**ing HATE conservatives.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Nobody has come for anybody.
Folks, we are overreacting.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #61
73. YOU COMPLEtELY MISS THE POINT
YOUR ATTITUDE IS THE SAME ONE GERMAN FOLK PROBABLY HAD THAT ALLOWED FASCISM TO FLOURISH UNTIL NAZIS RULED SUPREME.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Then why did you use the reference?
Of course all of us recgonize the reference you are using when you titled your post, "First they came for the proffessors." and then you say I missed the point?!?!?! You are being alarmist. Do you propose that the first amendment apply only to liberals, but that conservative speech be censored? If you do that, it won't be long until your speech too will be censored.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #83
95. you are trying so f***ing hard to fly under the radar
but you're not fooling me one bit. OMG, ALL I EVER HEAR IS CONSERVATIVE SHIT. I have to go to the INTERNET to find stuff that MAKES SENSE.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. ????
Because I refuse to do the Chicken Little routine I am a conservative? The sky is not falling. This particular shot by campus conservatives will be ineffective without us having to do anything. In fact, by reacting we help bring attention to it.

In 1994 the Reps brought out their "Contract with America". Not much attention was paid to it at first, then the Dems reacted big time to counter it, thereby bringing attention to it. It got the Dems off message and gave the iniative to the Reps. If the Dems had ignored it and stayed on message, 94 probably would have been a routine off year election. I grant that is speculation, but that is the way I see it.

By over reacting to this particular issue we serve their cause. If you think that makes me a conservative then I can't help that.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
49. "misrepresenting information to fit political biases"
What exactly does that mean?

"Kinghorn expected many of the nominated professors to be in liberal arts departments, especially government."

What specifically is in this Kinghorn's claw ... it must be a very narrow bias this "Austin" Kinghorn has ... noting he calls out government professors ... how many of college students actually take government? I took a few gov't classes because of my social studies/history aspect of my Secondary Ed degree ... professors simply taught the subject ... I don't recall any "misrepresenting information to fit political biases" ...

or does it come down to the evolving progressive nature and/or liberalizing aspect of civilization which Klinghorn objects to ... that he wants the lies he has been taught to change everything to fit his narrow mold?

I suspect that Kinghorn would have wanted the Kings and Queens of the Feudal years to have maintained control over the serfs.

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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
50. Sounds like the list....
....that the Nazis made of professors who were Jews.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
51. "Non-partisan list" my ass.
I'll tell you, man, if I were at UT and some YCT thug came and asked if he could sit in on my class to see whether I was biased or not, I'd say, "I have enough problems with the administration and the legistature trying to censor me, I sure fucking don't need YOU doing a Dolores Umbridge on me in the back row."

To people like these guys, any attempt to encourage any kind of critical thinking reads as "liberal bias." This is just another attempt to intimidate anyone who is an outspoken critic of the Bush administration. Robert Jensen, who teaches there, was one of the first and loudest; no doubt this was inspired mainly by him, but there are plenty of other UT faculty who have followed him into battle, and of course the YCT are going to hate that and want it to stop.

It's not going to convince these professors to change their ways; with any luck, all it will do is steer conservative assholes away from their classrooms, which is probably the best thing for everyone, really.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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He loved Big Brother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
92. More Texass-style surrealism
Plaid- I have something you once said quoted as my signature on another board regarding hatred of professors. "These assholes just can't stand it that there are a few people left in America who know how critical thinking works and are able to teach it." - P. Adder.

I have ALWAYS found this contempt right-wingnuts have for educators baffling as all hell.And they scorn thinkers and scholars so openly, as if they were the downfall of humanity instead of the saviors of it.


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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
53. This is why we need a "radical left."
We need leftist cadre groups to fill the time of these rightists. Not Democrats, but radicals. They serve a real purpose. I think that Texas Fascsit Student Union would be more concerned with the local communist outfit than with their progressive professors.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. Yes
Let 'em tangle with the Revolutionary People's Marxist Leninist Worker's Vanguard Party of the Left.

They deserve each other!
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
57. Got a Bad Mark, Rat Your Professor
"I have not decided how I feel about this yet. If it was a neutral group doing it I might not have a problem with it"
oh man...yeah universities shouldn't be reflect diversity of opinion, only utility and conformity to the sensibilities of people who don't go to universities...
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Nope
The makers of such a list, whether of the left or of the right, will be concerned about the ideological purity of their list and would naturally take measures to make sure the prof on the list really was an "enemy".

Folks, this kind of thing ain't new. I remember similiar things, from both sides when I was in college and that was a long time ago.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. I was suggesting
that such a 'list' could inspire other motives...like people claiming that the perceived bias and preferential treatment in marking might be ideologically motived and as such caused the student irreparable academic harm...
This really goes utimately to competencies (the Prof can't teach because he is too imbued with bias and ideology)...the wrong ones of course.

I remember this stuff from my college daze in the 80s...unfortuantely I was just as concerned when the blacklisting was done out of charges of sexism and racism...they might be 'aping' this plan of attack
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. WHEN YOU WERE IN COLLEGE
WAS AN ILLEGITIMATE UNELECTED PIECE OF GARBAGE OCCUPYING THE WHITE HOUSE??????????????????????????????????????????
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. Huh...
sorry but not sure where your coming from...
But did see firsthand phoney scams by students to get money, lowered marks and 'Justice!!!!!' for all women, minorities by the racist fascist dickheads running my department...

Sorry if it cuts both ways...so the turds on the right learned 'victimhood' politics and redeployed the strategy to encompass ideology...the battle was lost when universities admins (mostly from the 60s) changed many of the rules to allow 'demonization' and create a climate where any 'victim' could throw up a list on the Web and denounce facaulty, student societies and their 'minions'

Unfortuantely the real victims of injustice--those that can't afford to go to post-secondary insitutions anymore--are left out of this debate
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. Different question
It is quite paranoid if one thinks that GWB is personally directing this list at UT. If our movement is in the grips of such paranoia it will not be effective. I have seen this same paranoia on the part of the left before, in the late 60's early 70's. I remember one story that was making the rounds that the NY City Police were buying WWII refitted P-51's for riot suppression. Since I alrady had military experience at the time I was easily able to see that story as false.

If a group of students want to make a silly list, so what. Other students can make counter list, or as I suggested in another post in this thread, liberal students at UT will simply take it as a recommended list.

At very most it will lead to some self-selection as conservative students take conservative profs, and liberal ones take liberal ones. A few ornery students will take an opposite prof so they can challenge him/her.

It becomes a big deal only if we overreact to it, which is probably part of their hope. If we over react and we give them publicity and help spread the idea and let them know they have hit a nerve.

Our best responce to their list is to yawn at it.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
59. Young Fascists - would "young liberals of Texas" do this?
No.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
60. Return the favor and make a watch list on them!!!
They want a fight give them one!!!
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. Can I get on this list??
I'm not a professor, and I don't live in Texas, but I believe it would be quite an honor.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
66. LOL - I know several UT Austin professors
Who will be on that list damn quick.

One friend of mine is even a Marxist (gasp!)!

He's probably laughing his ass off right now.
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #66
80. UT-Austin has a fine English Dept.
Get ready to watch it go down the toilet if this succeeds.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
67. Has it occured to anybody...
that the liberal students at UT, (They do outnumber the conservative ones.) will simply use the list as a list of recommended profs.
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
69. We had a dipsh$t try to bring Young Conservatives to my old campus
( I think that was the name of the group he tried to bring in). He was the only member, and the main "group" activity was to put up hateful posters. The "group" would show up at any left-of-John-Burch speaking engagement and sputter some conservative nonsense. Normally, the speaker would just hack him off by deflating his argument like the Goodyear Blimp. He was finally expelled from school when he attacked a member of the media after one of his little confrontations, by diving over two rows of seats and trying to break the guy's camera. I guess he didn't care much about the first amendment, eh? Anyway, he happened to be a mormon, and moved to Utah to go to school. No more was heard from him and his obnoxious signs and attacks. Wonder if this is the same group.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
72. The New McCarthyism
That's all I have to say.
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #72
79. say something more
Will you argue in my defense when conservatives try to end my colleagues' or my career, or will centrist bipartisanship seem more attractive than defending an "extremist?"
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
75. "Widespread Liberalism" is the Myth
Everyone on DU should check out the wonderful book The Myth of Political Correctness by an author whose name I forget.

Also, UT was rated one of the most conservative campuses in the country by Princeton Review.
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
78. I volunteer to get on that list.
Unless we confront this assault on academic freedom head on, it will become acceptable.

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Nottingham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
81. Watch List on Conservatives would be great!
:bounce:
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
82. Sieg Heil!
Who the hell do these punks think they are? I suspect any thinking outside of their narrow world of fake christianity and Republican talking points will be "liberal bias" Hopefully, people will see them for the fascists they want to be. You know 'liberal bias' used to be known as thinking before thinking became anathema to Republicans.
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
89. they fear the truth
so any prof who tells his/her students that Saddam was not involved in 9/11...

who tells students that Reagan admin sold Saddam chemical weapons, precursors to bio weapons, that reagan knew all about the massacres and the killings of kurds...

who points out that the rest of the world did not support the invasion of Iraq and that much of the rest of the world does not like US foreign policy...

Those profs will be put on the blacklist of these little fascists and harrassed and hounded so they are silenced.

This is part of the right wing conspiracy to stifle the truth.

Fox news has done a great job of it. They're just following in the footsteps of the masters.
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
90. As a professor teaching this generation....
I can tell you that today's students are more concerned with how easy/hard professors are. At my university, there is a website that students can rate teachers for other students who are considering what profs to take...

As far as the liberal/conservative stuff, I tell my students up front that I am a liberal...and emphasis that it is important that they know where they get their information from...it also helps that I am pretty fair when it comes to the expression of views...I only step in if the info being espoused is nonsense...I take time to stress the scientific method...get them to think critically, which considering how the public schools only train our students to be test takers is getting harder and harder each year...

And in a research university, the college doesn't really give a damn what the students think about profs....most low level courses are taught by grads, and the university only cares about how much research money/publications you get each year...what the students think about profs really doesnt factor much into the university's formula for selecting faculty....so these students havent really done much of anything.....

We should be more concerned with the crappy HS education that these students get....it really is abysmal...and it's all down to this nonsense about testing our students.....i've only seen one method of testing if individuals are cognizant human beings and that was Socrates method....how do you quantify that?!
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. Thank you for an excellent response
I substitute teach to supplement my income, and for the joy of it. I am in pretty high demand so I am in a lot of classrooms, and see many different students. In class I am careful to not to use my temporary position to "indoctrinate" students. I try very hard to draw the students out and get them to discuss the material, and it is incredibly hard.

This last week for three days I had a group of seniors in a pre-law-enforcement class. It is a voc-tech type course for future cops. For two days we watched a film on the FBI and talked about J. Edgar Hoover & his domestic spying, Watergate, Ruby Ridge & Waco, and the Patriot Act and it potential for abuse. I tried to get them to discuss the pros and cons of the Patriot Act. I emphasized to them that in the next presidental election they would be able to vote and this would be one of the issues they would be voting on. Frustration!!

On the third day I showed the film, "Gideon's Trumpet" (Great flick.)about how in 1962 the the right to have a lawyer appointed by the court if you can't afford one was established. It seemed to go over most of their heads. I know that in my senior year we would have been able to handle the issues discussed in the film. I could not get them to discuss after the film.

I share your frustration with what is happening in our schools.

I enjoy subing in the elementary more. They still have active curosity.

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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. Good point- I have noticed the same at my university.
I sometimes feel that many students place too much emphasis on grades and not enough on learning. They want to know exactly what to do to get an A and can't deal well with ambiguity. They are very instrumental. It has almost gotten to the point where they want extra credit just to do the bare minimum (such as read the chapter before class).

Sometimes I feel like screaming. Now I have to get back to my grading. AAARRRGGGHHH!
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
91. Well, the good thing about being in the Spies is you get to wear
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 07:01 PM by Cat Atomic
these really boss shorts and I think they give you a little stethescope for listening at keyholes.

Be ever vigilant, Young Republicans. We'll get those thought criminals yet.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
94. Hmmm, maybe professors could create a "student watch list"?
I suppose it would be considered wrong, but it's a great thought.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
98. There's nothing going on here
That a group of Young College Liberals can do in return. They can "monitor" the professors as well as the monitors!


rocknation
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