Did Gephardt really say this?

[UnapologeticLiberal]

Gephardt rips Democratic rivals; Edwards touts economy plans
By MIKE GLOVER
Associated Press

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (AP) – Missouri Rep. Dick Gephardt ripped into two of his Democratic presidential rivals Saturday, accusing them of backing trade policies that have yielded “a race to the bottom” and shipped jobs overseas.


“Just understand that when I’m president I will work against and I will never sign a trade treaty of any kind that will send our jobs and our money and our welfare off to the highest bidder around this world,” said Gephardt.


Using a union hall speech as a backdrop, Gephardt criticized Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean for supporting the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he said has drained thousands of jobs from the U.S.


“Both Sen. Kerry and Howard Dean voted for and supported NAFTA,” said Gephardt, who said he led the fight against the treaty, even though it was being pushed by a president of his party.

Do treaties have to be approved by governors as well as senators, did the paper misquote Gephardt, or does he think Dean was in Congress in 1993 (which is highly unlikely, since I would think that as House Majority Leader he would know if someone was in his caucus or not!).

Anyone know what is up with this, and whether he said it or was misquoted?

[Erika]

1. Gephardt is Bush Light

And who cares what he thinks? He backed Bush on this insane war.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

2. I just find it funny

He's not usually incompetant, so either he meant to attack Kerry and someone else or the press misquoted him or he just needed to attack Dean because he's only one point behind him and so it did not matter if his accusation was absurd.

[juajen]

12. Gephardt

He probably meant "Edwards". I've transposed some of these names myself.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

33. Kerry voted for NAFTA, Dean supported NAFTA

Exactly what Gephardt said.

[quinnox]

3. How dare a candidate criticize Dean!

This is not acceptable.

[JI7]

6. he criticized kerry and i have no problem with it

it was just pointing out his position as opposed to the others. i see nothing wrong with it. i don't really see it as bashing or criticizing much either. more like just saying how he is different than the others on this specific issue. kerry is my candidate and this doesn't bother me at all.

[quinnox]

7. My post was not serious

It was satire. I've noticed whenever Dean is criticized, it is a mortal offense to some of the Dean folks. There is no criticism that is acceptable to them.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

14. It's not acceptable to accuse him of voting for something he didn't vote 4

That's what I was curious about, that he said Dean voted for it.

In fairness, Dean has made flaps like that too, saying things like that his opponents voted for a $350 billion dollar tax cut, when in fact they voted to cut it from $7.26 billion to $350 billion but then voted against the $350 tax cut package.

But flaps like that are expected coming from someone who has never been in Congress, because he does not know the inner workings of it. It is surprising coming from Gephardt, the quintessential Washington insider.

[blm]

30. Dean was FOR it but didn't VOTE for it.

Of course, I would never suggest that ANY opponent match a lie with a lie. Just because Dean didn't tell the truth about Gephardt and taxes, doesn't mean that Gephardt should retaliate in kind. I'm certain that Gephardt just misspoke.

[blm]

31. Dean was FOR it as a free trader, but didn't VOTE for it.

Of course, I would never suggest that ANY opponent match a lie with a lie. Just because Dean didn't tell the truth about Gephardt and taxes, doesn't mean that Gephardt should retaliate in kind. I'm certain that Gephardt just misspoke.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

8. That's not the point

He accused Dean of voting for NAFTA. Dean was never in Congress, so I am unclear as to how he could have voted for NAFTA.

[w4rma]

10. Just don't get offended if someone defends Dean. He's pro-fair trade.

...
HOWARD DEAN: No. What I said-- Well, I'll tell you what I said in a minute. But I'll follow my train of thought here, most briefly. Free trade has benefited Vermont a great deal. Here's the problem with free trade, and here's why I support fair trade, and why I want to change all our trade agreements to include human rights with trade, as Jimmy Carter included human rights with foreign policy. I still think NAFTA was a good thing. I think the president did the right thing. But the problem now is that, 10 years into NAFTA, here's what we've done. We have shipped a lot of our industrial capacity to other countries. And the ownership pattern, and the ratio of reward between capital and labor in those other countries is what it was 100 years ago in this country.

So the reason for NAFTA is not just trade. It's defense and foreign policy. That is, a middle class country where women fully participate in the economic and political decision making of that country is a country that doesn't harbor groups like Al-Qaeda, and it's a country that does not go to war. So that's in our intersect. That's why trade is really in our long term interest. What we've done so far in NAFTA is we've transferred industrial capacity, but we haven't transferred any of the elements that are needed to make a middle class. The truth is, the trade union movement in this country built America, not literally-- Well, they did do it literally with the Brooklyn Bridge and the Empire State Building, and things like that. But they built America because they allowed people who worked in factories and mines to become middle class people. And America was the strongest country on earth, and still is, because we have the largest middle class on earth, with democratic ideals. That is, working people in this country, by and large, feel that this is their country, and they have a piece of the pie, and it matters what they think.

Now, if you want trade to succeed, ultimately, we're going to have to create a climate in other countries that are beneficiaries of NAFTA where they can create a middle class with democratic ideals. That means we should not have any free trade agreements, and we should go back and tell the WTO that "you need also to include environmental standards and labor standards." Here's why. Today, if you run a factory in Iowa-- Let's suppose you spend a million dollars a year disposing of all the waste products that come out that are toxic. You can go to another country and dump all that stuff in the river and on the ground. So America, because we have environmental standards, and we're willing to trade, straight out, free trade, with countries that it's cheaper by a million dollars, before you even get to wages, to do business there, I think that's a big problem. We're essentially saying, "Our environmental laws are strict. It's cheaper for you to go into business someplace lese. Go ahead." That's the wrong thing to do.

The same with labor standards. I don't know why we should be shipping our jobs offshore when kids can work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for a small amount of wages. And isn't that what America fought against 100 years go? Wasn't that the victory of the trade union movement? So it seems to me that my position makes sense. We've gone through 10 years of free trade. We've gotten to a position where we now need to change our trade agreements.
...
http://www.jfklibrary.org/forum_dean.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=46131&mesg_id=46131&page=

[quinnox]

11. Yea, sounds like Dean supports Nafta

So it appears Gephardt is criticizing that support.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

13. But he did not vote for it

He was not in Congress TO vote for it! That is what i found odd about Gephardt's statement

[w4rma]

16. actually he wants a revised NAFTA, not the current one

Dean: That means we should not have any free trade agreements, and we should go back and tell the WTO that "you need also to include environmental standards and labor standards."

[JI7]

4. i think he is right

other than kucinich , gephardt is probably one of the most anti nafta candidates out there. i'm a kerry supporter and he does support nafta. and i believe howard dean does also. if i was voting on that issue i would vote for kucnich or gephardt also.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

9. But he said Dean voted for it

That is what I find strange, because Dean never served in Congress and could not have voted for it.

[JI7]

17. voted for and supported

maybe referring to kerry when he said voted for, and to both when he says supported.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

34. obvisouly - watch the Dean people spin

How can Dean supporters be such hypocrites? Dean says it - NAFTA IS GOOD - and they try to parse his words away.

Gephardt said Kerry and Dean voted for and supported NAFTA - obviously meaning that Kerry voted for it, and Dean supported it - a truthful statement.

Dean isn't the wonder-boy his fan club makes him out to be, that's for sure.

[lcordero]

5. He is a member of the DLC <---the PNAC wing of the Dem. Party

?Just understand that when I?m president I will work against and I will never sign a trade treaty of any kind that will send our jobs and our money and our welfare off to the highest bidder around this world,? said Gephardt.

How does the saying go? "Closing the barn doors after the cows are out" maybe? How is this supposed to solve any problems?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. Dean is DLC, isn't Kerry too? Gephardt is pro-union, and anti-NAFTA

and everybody, except for the political naivetes here on DU, knows it.

[revcarol]

15. You betcha governors have a say in this, especially governors

of states close to a border,(can you say CANADA, anyone?)Dean is PRO-NAFTA; he says he wants to address environmental and labor issues in the foreign countries, but that doesn't affect our jobs staying here. (Deanies, if I am mischaracterizing your candidate please speak up; that is not my intention.)

Gephart and Kucinich are both vying for the labor vote.Both are against NAFTA. Gephart has a good record for labor, so does Kucinich. But Gephart has run so many times and may be considered a has-been by some. Kucinich may be considered not a front-runner by some. So far the AFL/CIO hasn't given their endorsement to either.

Yesterday I invited an AFL/CIO union organizer to our Kucinich get-together. He couldn't come because he was going out of town, but will make the next one.His job right now, besides organizing and supporting, is to go around to the candidate forums and ask the right questions of the candidates from the labor perspective.He had gone to the big labor event in California and said Kucinich wowed them!!Then he saw Kerry in Arizona.

I asked him what he thought about Kucinich. He said Kucinich was labor's "dream candidate." So, then, sticking my neck out even farther, I asked about DK's relative weakness in money. He said that grass roots effort and getting out the vote would overcome 90% of the money difference in a campaign with Bush.

The AFL/CIO International has not yet endorsed anyone. It probably will depend on the relative power that a candidate has: factors would include grass roots organizing, money and several other factors.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

18. Not mischaracterizing, I don't think - just the word "vote" was odd

But I think that Dean's proposals to address labor and environmental issues in other countries WOULD have an effect on our jobs staying here, because if the environmental and labor standards were as tough abroad as they are here there would be little incentive for companies to ship jobs overseas in the first place. The reason they do it is because they can get cheaper labor and have fewer environmental constraints abroad, thus making it cheaper to produce their stuff there than here.

[revcarol]

23. He said vote and SUPPORT.

Dean supported NAFTA and was a governor-lobbyist for it.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

28. Do you have a link for that?

Do you have a source that says that Dean actively lobbied for NAFTA when he was governor of Vermont?

I am not doubting that, I was just not aware of it, and I would like to see a source if you have one.

[w4rma]

20. It does affect jobs staying here, because corps can't then run to places

that cut corners on human rights and environmental standards which the lack of makes it impossible for American workers to compete against foreign workers.

I think this is a *start*. I think it is also pragmatic and has the best shot at passing. I don't really mind so much competing against Canadians and Europeans, but competing against countries with poor records on labor and the environment is impossible.

...
HOWARD DEAN: No. What I said-- Well, I'll tell you what I said in a minute. But I'll follow my train of thought here, most briefly. Free trade has benefited Vermont a great deal. Here's the problem with free trade, and here's why I support fair trade, and why I want to change all our trade agreements to include human rights with trade, as Jimmy Carter included human rights with foreign policy. I still think NAFTA was a good thing. I think the president did the right thing. But the problem now is that, 10 years into NAFTA, here's what we've done. We have shipped a lot of our industrial capacity to other countries. And the ownership pattern, and the ratio of reward between capital and labor in those other countries is what it was 100 years ago in this country.

So the reason for NAFTA is not just trade. It's defense and foreign policy. That is, a middle class country where women fully participate in the economic and political decision making of that country is a country that doesn't harbor groups like Al-Qaeda, and it's a country that does not go to war. So that's in our intersect. That's why trade is really in our long term interest. What we've done so far in NAFTA is we've transferred industrial capacity, but we haven't transferred any of the elements that are needed to make a middle class. The truth is, the trade union movement in this country built America, not literally-- Well, they did do it literally with the Brooklyn Bridge and the Empire State Building, and things like that. But they built America because they allowed people who worked in factories and mines to become middle class people. And America was the strongest country on earth, and still is, because we have the largest middle class on earth, with democratic ideals. That is, working people in this country, by and large, feel that this is their country, and they have a piece of the pie, and it matters what they think.

Now, if you want trade to succeed, ultimately, we're going to have to create a climate in other countries that are beneficiaries of NAFTA where they can create a middle class with democratic ideals. That means we should not have any free trade agreements, and we should go back and tell the WTO that "you need also to include environmental standards and labor standards." Here's why. Today, if you run a factory in Iowa-- Let's suppose you spend a million dollars a year disposing of all the waste products that come out that are toxic. You can go to another country and dump all that stuff in the river and on the ground. So America, because we have environmental standards, and we're willing to trade, straight out, free trade, with countries that it's cheaper by a million dollars, before you even get to wages, to do business there, I think that's a big problem. We're essentially saying, "Our environmental laws are strict. It's cheaper for you to go into business someplace lese. Go ahead." That's the wrong thing to do.

The same with labor standards. I don't know why we should be shipping our jobs offshore when kids can work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for a small amount of wages. And isn't that what America fought against 100 years go? Wasn't that the victory of the trade union movement? So it seems to me that my position makes sense. We've gone through 10 years of free trade. We've gotten to a position where we now need to change our trade agreements.
...
HOWARD DEAN: What I would say is, we've gone the first mile. The first decade has worked, for exactly the reasons you say. I don't disagree with the premise of the free traders. I had this discussion with Bob Rubin, and I said, "Here's the problem. We need an emerging middle class in these countries, and we're not getting one. So now is the time to have labor and environmental standards attached to trade agreements." He said, "You're totally wrong. I can't disagree with you more." I said, "How would you address the problem?" I haven't heard back. You have to deal with this problem. It's a serious problem.

JOE KLEIN: What if they say no?

HOWARD DEAN: Then I'd say, "Fine, that's the end of free trade."

JOE KLEIN: What do you mean, that's the end of free trade? Then we slap tariffs on these countries?

HOWARD DEAN: Yes.

JOE KLEIN: So you'd be in favor of tariffs at that point.

HOWARD DEAN: If necessary. Look, Jimmy Carter did this in foreign policy. If you can't get people to observe human rights, and say that we're going to accept products from countries that have kids working no overtime, no time and a half, no reasonable safety precautions-- I don't think we ought to be buying those kinds of products in this country. We're enabling that to happen. I'm serious.
http://www.jfklibrary.org/forum_dean.html

[aquart]

29. Foreign goods won't be so cheap

if manufacturers have the same environmental and human rights restrictions overseas that they have here.

Works for me.

But does that mean we refuse to import cheap goods made without those requirements? Like Nikes (Okay, not so cheap)?

[quinnox]

19. How many unions support

Gephardt so far? Quite a few have endorsed him. Has Dean gotten any union endorsements?

[w4rma]

24. Gephardt defeats Dean for machinists' support (411 to 157)

...
It was Gephardt's sixth and largest union endorsement.
...
Dean assumed going in that the machinists' union was "Gephardt turf," Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi said.

The union in January invited the campaigns to send candidates to address the meeting Friday, but had not heard from the others, Buffenbarger told the union members.
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/07/12/loc_oh-democratsunion12.html

[UnapologeticLiberal]

26. Not sure if he has any union endorsements yet

But he was the first recipient of the Wellstone Award given by the AFL-CIO to a politician who has championed labor rights. He received the award for his active support of the nurses at Fletcher Allen Hospital in Vermont in their attempt to unionize while he was governor.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Story/58711.html

[Colin Ex]

21. Let's go in the way back machine for a sec.

I'm doing the Control-C-Control-P Dance to Gephardt's statement in question here.

“Both Sen. Kerry and Howard Dean voted for and supported NAFTA,” said Gephardt<.>

As it looks right now, I strongly suspect that Gephardt is referring to Kerry as voting for it and Dean as supporting it. You'll note that their names are in an order that would imply that, and from a standpoint of linguistics, I'm pretty sure that a vote in favour of would imply support.

Just my thoughts on his statement, which will be subsequently ignored.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

27. Okay, that makes sense

Thanks for clearing that up. You could be right on that.

[Colin Ex]

22. Let's go in the way back machine for a sec.

I'm doing the Control-C-Control-P Dance to Gephardt's statement in question here.

“Both Sen. Kerry and Howard Dean voted for and supported NAFTA,” said Gephardt<.>

As it looks right now, I strongly suspect that Gephardt is referring to Kerry as voting for it and Dean as supporting it. You'll note that their names are in an order that would imply that, and from a standpoint of linguistics, I'm pretty sure that a vote in favour of would imply support.

Just my thoughts on his statement, which will be subsequently ignored.

[uhhuh]

25. I agree with both the Dean Haters and the Dean supporters

Gephardt was referring to Dean's support, not vote on NAFTA. Dean was stating his support of free trade with conditions. He seems to be saying that thinks trade should have minimum standards. Free trade seemed like good idea to me when it was presented a decade ago. Seeing it implemented has given me the exact same attitude as Dean. It needs to be revised to prevent exploitation of the workers and the loss of American jobs. I prefer Kucinich, but I don't see anything wrong with what either Gephardt or Dean said. Gephardt indicated Dean supported NAFTA. True. Dean says it must be reformed. Also true. What's the problem??:shrug: :shrug:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. Gephardt steps up to the rich Yalies, FINALLY!

Dean and Kerry can talk out their ass all they want - Kerry voted for NAFTA and Dean says he supports it.

Gephardt voted for war, just like Kerry did, and of course Dean didn't vote for anything. Bush lied to everyone about 911, Afghanistan, and Iraq - the public was behind him on each one - but know everyone knows Bush was lying.

Alright, Gephardt, it's about time!

[Eloriel]

36. Be honest, please

That's what you'd expect from others re your candidate.

Dean supports NAFTA amended to include labor and environmental protections as has been amply documented.

Personally, I think that's the realistic position. YMMV.

Eloriel

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

37. Dean people, BE HONEST

BEFORE NAFTA, all the Democrats said they would put in environmental and labor protections - they DID NOT. When it was proposed a few years later, the Democrats also DID NOT.

Dean is NOT proposing ANYTHING new - this is exactly what you have been promising FOREVER, and you NEVER DO IT.

Dean supports NAFTA, which means he supports CORPORATIONS over DEMOCRACY. Until that changes, Dean will lose.