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Iraqi insurgency: MIHOP?

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passy Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:22 PM
Original message
Iraqi insurgency: MIHOP?
If we accept that *&Co are in Iraq for the oil, they will hardly be willing to just leave the country and risk the Iraqis taking it back for themselves.
So my question is: is the whole atmosphere of insecurity in Iraq created on purpose to have the military bogged down for decades?
If the Iraqis really got to choose do we seriously think that they would let Halliburton and Co stay in the country very long.
Also wouldn't * be even more of a lame duck president if he wasn't fighting his little war?
I think the only way this war is gonna end is by getting rid of the WH mafia that got us there in the first place.
Opinions are welcomed.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. PNAC wants a perpetual state of war. They do not want the oil, or any
other outcome other than the opportunity to KILL and LOOT. That is what DEATH CULTS DO
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ROakes1019 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Rove
I believe Karl Rove laid out as part of his plan for Bush's re-election a war, any way, in Iraq if that could be pushed through. For that reason, Bush refuses to give up his war; he thinks his legacy depends on it. This war was created for Bush's glory and legacy. To withdraw makes him a total failure, in his eyes if not in the world's. He is so wrong--he will seen as a failure no matter how long we stay in Iraq. He has no interest in the well-being of the American people or the Iraqi people. It is all about the personal ambition(perhaps to outdo his father, who knows?)of a sociopath, who is incapable of caring about anyone else.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, I think it was caused by arrogant stupidity
on the part of Rumsfeld, who countermanded the plans of military experts saying that we could take and hold Iraq with far fewer military personnel that were required. Yes, he made it happen, but I don't credit his intelligence to be high enough to have done it for the nefarious purposes you propose-remember the PNAC expected to go from Iraq to Iran and beyond, and we can't follow the game plan because we're too bogged down.
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kahleefornia Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I agree
The plan was to "democratize" the whole bunch - Iran was supposed to be next. They stupidly assumed Iraq would be easy.

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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. You are so right!
63% of the Iraqi people supported us before we started the
torture and then the insurgency started. We could have been out
in 6 months. GWB didn't want that, he wanted a weak and divided
Iraq which is why the US destroyed the infrastructure. Bushco wanted
chaos so that his oil buddies would dominate and siphon off the oil not a democratic nation.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. The only logical explanation...
and the only reason why we are there now. Remember the brits dressed as Iraqi's with the car full of explosives that killed a policeman in Basra....and then were forcibly extracated from their jail cell? Such a pile of bullshit we will probably never know the lengths these crackpots have gone to for the object of their desire.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Bingo!!!
They needed to stay there to get all the $$$ they could. They are not finished pillaging the place yet and that is why they do not want to leave. BASTARDS!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. PNAC has its Iraqi Co-relate whcih hired our War Profiteers.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 02:51 PM by patrice
That group Needs us to stay, and the World is only just toooooo happy that we are over a barrel, as China and Europe are way less encumbered and can go forward better than the U.S. can. Especially since Cheney still has to get those Permanent Bases for PNAC's Patrons. So this group has an interest in KEEPING THINGS STIRRED UP IN IRAQ HOWEVER NECESSARY. Whatever it takes to "Proove" that the U.S. is STILL NEEDED there. Remember Condi said 10+ years.

Other Iraqis want to create a Muslim State(s) and they Need Us to Go. So they can become who they are without the confusion that we bring to that issue. But the only way they can become States is to re-draw Countries' borders, and that is NOT going to happen, so though they would prefer we were out of there, and would stop fighting even (for a while perhaps) to make that happen, the Borders are a PRIMARY value so they have to keep on fighting because of the border issues, whether we are there or not.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Break a country up into pieces then manipulate them
This is the byzantine game being played. A sovereign independent Iraq is the last thing the international corporate cronies want. They would be thrown out on their ears.

Iraq looks more like Lebanon every day.

Below is an interesting analysis of the deep politics of death squads and security organzation in "democratic Iraq" and of a possible Anglo-American balkanization plan. The complete article is worth reading for its evaluation of the political situation in Iraq and can be found at:

www.globalresearch.ca


Crying Wolf: Media Disinformation and Death Squads in Occupied Iraq


by Max Fuller

November 10, 2005
GlobalResearch.ca

...Since then, a steady stream of the victims of extrajudicial killings has flowed through the Baghdad morgue. Characteristically, the victims’ hands are tied or handcuffed behind their backs and they have been blindfolded. In most cases they also appear to have been whipped with a cord, subjected to electric shocks or beaten with a blunt object and shot to death, often with single bullets to the head. Yasser Salihee, a journalist for Knight Ridder investigating the bodies, wrote that eyewitnesses claimed many of the victims were seized by men wearing commando uniforms in white Toyota Land Cruisers with police markings. (Knight Ridder). Salihee’s last article was published on 27 June, three days after he was fatally shot by a US sniper at a routine checkpoint...

...The majority of accusations are general. Journalists refer to the police, security forces, the National Guard or to poorly identified police commandos, but specific accusations have been made against a unit known as the Wolf Brigade. The identification of the Wolf Brigade with cases of abduction, torture and execution in Baghdad was first made on 16 May, when Mothana Harith Al-Dari, a spokesman for the AMS, stated that ‘The mass killings and the crackdown and detention campaigns in north-eastern Baghdad over the past two days by members of the Iraqi police or by an Interior Ministry special force, known as the Wolf Brigade, are part of a state terror policy’, in relation to the discoveries of the victims of extrajudicial executions noted above (Islam Online)...

...Fifteen years later, the same charges can be levelled against the recent Iraq ‘War’ and the country’s subsequent occupation. Most importantly, I believe that a process akin to that Baudrillard highlighted is being actively employed to simulate a civil war in Iraq. False-flag intelligence operations are aimed at sowing seeds of a sectarian strife that was largely non-existent prior to the invasion. Thus, even many Sunni Iraqis are coming to believe that the well-organised death squads run from the CIA-controlled intelligence hub are actually the Badr Brigade they often claim to be; and thus British SAS men in Arab disguise plant bombs at Shia religious festivals to be blamed on fanatical Wahabi Sunni ‘insurgents’...

...Whether such tactics succeed in provoking further, autonomous acts of violence directed against the civilian population is much less significant than the impact they are able to exert within the media. This Anglo-American intelligence operation acts as a factory churning out the signs of Civil War: a ‘wave of tit-for-tat sectarian violence’ and the consequent ethnic cleansing. The signs are produced to be picked up by the media and spun and spun until nothing is left but a nebulous Civil War with no internal logic or structure, with the occupying forces as powerless to intervene as they were in the Balkans while Iraq splits into Rubiae’s desired four to six autonomous provinces. Those few journalists, like Yasser Salihee and Steven Vincent, who break the mould and start to investigate the actual authorship of extrajudicial killings themselves become victims.>





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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. They insured a lasting insurgency (hence a reason to stay) by not
employing Iraqis (bringing in foreign contractors up the wazoo) selling off much of their state owned infrastructure and disbanding the army.... they knew exactly what they were doing, peace in Iraq is the last thing these bastids wanted... I feel it in my bones.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. PNAC didn't think about it for almost 6 years to have missed this
"little" point. They need time to build those Permanent (Fortified) Bases.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Sooooo, the democracy is just window dressing.... humph. nt.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Iraq's or Our's ?
Pardon my cynicism, but I have a few Voting Reform friends who would say a thing or two about "Democracy".
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passy Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. And where do we think those bases will be?
And who will build them?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I don't know where.
But I do know whom.

I even know a few of them. Brown & Root, Bechtel et al,

and BTW, one of the big things that made the bin Laden Fortune in Saudi Arabia are the bin Laden Construction Businesses who are probably pretty cozy with the likes of Halliburton.
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passy Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I was thinking only where the oil is and nowhere else...
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I was thinking that I don't know where specifically in Iraq.
Iwonder who does know where the bases are supposed to be in Iraq. You know they have been trying to prepare whatever sites PNAC is interested in.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The bases are along the proposed OIL pipeline.
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