The "Real" Reason Plame Was Outed

[Me.]

On the continuing Plame threads, there has always been the contention that the reason for outing Valerie Plame was a two-fer: retaliation against her husband and, to stop the work she and her team was doing.

Did Plame out WH plans for finding WMD in Iraq?

<<<snip>>>
The WH may be diabolical, but it's not stupid. Apparently, they gave it a lot of thought if the following is true. As Wayne Madsen reports (Nov 11):

"According to U.S. intelligence sources, the White House exposure of Valerie Plame and her Brewster Jennings & Associates was intended to retaliate against the CIA's work in limiting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. WMR has reported in the past on this aspect of the scandal. In addition to identifying the involvement of individuals in the White House who were close to key players in nuclear proliferation, the CIA Counter-Proliferation Division prevented the shipment of binary VX nerve gas from Turkey into Iraq in November 2002. The Brewster Jennings network in Turkey was able to intercept this shipment which was intended to be hidden in Iraq and later used as evidence that Saddam Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass destruction. U.S. intelligence sources revealed that this was a major reason the Bush White House targeted Plame and her network." Cont…

http://houseoflabor.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/11/19/82552/557

[spancks]

1. Lordy, lordy, the shit just gets deeper every day.

I want to see these assholes up against the wall one day.

[Seabiscuit]

17. I want to see them hanging from lamposts like Mussolini.

... above a crowd of millions of angry citizens.

[niallmac]

38. I remember seeing those black and white pictures of

Mussolini and his cohorts and mistress hanging from the beam of a gas station. I was very young but the message came across loud and clear. The 'people' eventually have their day and it is not necessarily neat and pretty.

I still think murals of this sort should decorate mandatory avenues of access to the House and Senate as an assist toward keeping perspective in a city otherwise awash in the perks of office.

[anarch]

22. it's only a matter of time

I just hope that they are all still alive when the judgment comes down...dying is too good for them.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

2. There is no doubt in my mind that Brewster-Jennings was a target.

They were probably coming very close to following where the money led to, and that couldn't stand. I wonder if Fitzgerald is trying to connect those dots.

[Me.]

6. Halliburton Profit Sheets

were certainly benefiting from the sale of components of WMDs. The French have been investigating this, but don't know about FitzG. though he does have his sights set on Cheney.

What I like about this article is that it puts many pieces in place. We all expected them to salt the mines, so to speak, so why didn't they?

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Exactly

And didn't they almost catch BinLaden in 2003? And were following Haliburton and making sure they didn't do anything illegal?

[seemslikeadream]

3. I wonder when Judy's trip was planned?

:hi:

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. If the Counter-Proliferation folks caught BushCo red handed

then BushCo would have to take drastic measures and even start killing people,(Remember David Kelly?) and they would have to put the rest of the group out of business.

Something major had to have happened for everyone in the WH to be so involved and to go to such extremes to make sure everyone knew who Valerie Wilson was.

[seemslikeadream]

9. They seemed to have their trucks in over-drive, didn't they?

[Me.]

75. I Keep Looking At Your Post

pretty cool

[H2O Man]

5. Believe it.

Old and moldie DUers will recall in the summer of 2004, when I quoted Joe Klein's 7-5-04 article (Plenty to Swear About), which said:

"Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficing of WMD components."

[Me.]

18. Had Forgotten The Klein Quote

Thanks for the reminder. Upthread it was asked if FitzG.'s investigation will bring this to light. I don't tend to think so. But I do tend think that as we move along, as the floodgates open, with the Plame investigation and more and more comes out with AIPAC and Abramoff that this info will wiggle it's way to the top. Heard on the news this morning that Feith is now being investigated for pre-war intelligence matters. That could lead to this info being revealed. What do you think?

[H2O Man]

31. Fitzgerald's work

is for a specific purpose. It has specific goals.

After the 2006 elections, it will be time for the House to investigate "why" the VP's office took the aggressive tactics they did. As I have said from the day I joined DU, exposing Plame does not fit in with simply "punishing" Wilson for speaking out on the yellow cake issue.

I would remind people of two of my favorite sentences from Wilson's book, found on page 4: "Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security adviser, was as cogent as he was concise. Since the Bush people never backed down, he pointed out, the fact that they had been so quick to admit their error this time meant that they must have something more important to protect."

The day after Novak's article, Valerie Plame was still calling associates to warn them of the danger posed by the Novak article. In that old chestnut known as "The Waterman Paper," I suggested that on that day, she spoke with the person(s) involved in the specific investigation that was targeted by the VP's office. I have seen nothing in the time since that changes my thinking on that.

[Me.]

36. Time Again For This Prescient Piece

The Waterman Paper (Plame Affair - High Crimes & Misdemeanors)

The Waterman Paper (as published on the Home Page of Democratic Underground)

The Waterman Paper
By H2O Man


This paper examines the possibility that Vice President Dick Cheney orchestrated the "leaking" of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity to the news media in the summer of 2003, in order to accomplish three goals.

These include (1) to punish Joseph Wilson for challenging "16 words" in President Bush's 1-28-03 State of the Union address; and (2) to intimidate other sources from publicly challenging the White House's version of events involving the "war on terrorism" and the US invasion of Iraq. Both of these goals are well-known from numerous reports on this White House scandal.

The other, (3) is that VP Cheney was attempting to derail an investigation that Plame may have been involved in at the time that her identity was exposed. This third potential goal has not been the subject of any major media attention.
The author of this paper put it forward on an internet forum, the Democratic Underground, in early July, 2004. The resulting eleven DU "threads," which consist of over 3,000 posts from interested citizens across the country, is the only known forum debating this theory.

Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04.

Time Line

While the case involving Wilson's investigation in Niger, and the White House's efforts to expose Plame is long and complicated, this paper will focus on a "time line" established by Wilson in his book.

1. Jan '02: The first reports of a Niger-Iraq uranium connection surface in the White House.

2. Feb '02: Wilson is asked to investigate by the CIA.

3. March '02: Wilson returns from Niger and briefs the CIA on the investigation. His conclusion supports those of two others that there was no Niger-Iraq connection.

4. Jan '03: Bush includes the "16 words" in his State of the Union address.

5. On or about March 5, '03: the CIA gives VP Cheney an oral report, informing him of Wilson's conclusions.

6. March 7, '03: the IAEA announces the US's documents on Niger-Iraq are forgeries.

7. March 8, '03: (a) a State Department spokesperson admits, "We fell for it" in regard to the forged document; (b) Wilson tells CNN that the State Department has more information on the subject; and (c) a workshop meeting is held in VP Cheney's office. It is attended by top republican officials, possibly including Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Newt Gingrich. The group discusses ways to discredit Wilson.

8. June 8, '03: Condoleeza Rice denies knowledge of the weakness of the Niger uranium claim on Meet The Press. She states, "Maybe someone down in the bowels of the Agency knew about this, but nobody in my circles."

9. July 6, '03: Wilson's NYT op-ed is published. By the following day, two senior White House officials began contacting at least six reporters, informing them of Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative.

10. July 8, '03: Reporter Robert Novak tells a complete stranger on a Washington street: "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. She's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him." In the following days, Novak would ask the CIA for confirmation of Plame's identity. He was asked not to print her name or identity in any article regarding Wilson.

11. July 14, '03: Novak's article exposes Plame.

12. July 20, '03: NBC's Andrea Mitchell tells Wilson that senior White House officials told her that the "real story" was not the 16 words, but was Wilson and his wife.

13. July 21, '03: NBC's Chris Matthews tells Wilson that Karl Rove called him and said," Wilson's wife is fair game." Matthews said he would confirm that if asked.

This time line indicates that while the exposing of Plame's identity was a result of Wilson's op-ed, it was also part of a larger strategy that had been planned in VP Cheney's office since March 8. It clearly confirms goal #1: by exposing Plame, and putting her safety at risk, the White House had severely punished Joseph Wilson.
It also supports goal #2: the White House had a strategy to intimidate any other potential intelligence operatives from exposing the administration for distorting information regarding Iraq.

Likewise, the exposing of Plame supports goal #3: exposing Plame put an immediate end to any activities that Plame was participating in at the time. This is supported by Wilson (pg 345): "She immediately began to prepare a checklist of things she needed to do to minimize the fall-out to the projects she was working on."

Also, Wilson notes: "Compromising the officer means compromising a career, a network, and every person with who the officer might have ever worked. Slips of the tongue cost people their lives." (pg 13)

The Leakers' Identities

Robert Novak sourced his story to two senior White House officials. Other reporters, including Andrea Mitchell, made mention of the two unidentified senior White House officials. These two are among the at least six reporters contacted by these two officials.
Chris Matthew's call identifies Karl Rove as being involved in the efforts to make "Wilson's wife ... fair game." This call took place after the calls from the senior officials to the six reporters.
Wilson's book indicates a belief that the two senior officials were Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Eliot Abrams. Abrams is no stranger to White House disgrace, having been convicted on two charges during the Iran-Contra scandal.

There is evidence the three were operating with the knowledge of, and perhaps under the direction of VP Cheney. The March 8 "workshop" in VP Cheney's office indicates that this was a long-standing, well-organized effort to discredit Wilson. As Wilson notes (pg 387) : "... a plan to attack me had been formed before the moment. It was cocked and ready to fire .... an organized smear campaign directed from the highest reaches of the White House."

Cheney and Pre-War Intelligence

Those involved in the "workshop" to discredit Wilson were also active in efforts to influence pre-war intelligence reports. On page 6, Wilson discusses "leaks" that Cheney, Libby, and Newt Gingrich pressured the intelligence community "to skew intelligence analysists" to fit their own needs.

On page 338, Wilson notes that these three reportedly intimidated analysts by implying, "if you do a 'Wilson' on us, we will do worse to you."

Wilson notes (pg 434) that VP Cheney runs a "parallel national security office," which has no congressional oversight, and hence can "circumvent long-standing and accepted reporting structures and to skew decision-making practices."

As a result, as reported by Joe Klein in Time (7-5-04) "the intelligence community is at war with the White House." Klein notes that "multiple intelligence sources" indicated to him their belief that Cheny strong-armed out-going CIA Director George Tenet, to make him support Cheney and Rumsfeld's positions on Iraq.

Cheney, Niger, and Wilson's Trip

Wilson notes a report on a possible Niger-Iraq yellow cake uranium transaction had "aroused the interests of Vice President Dick Cheney." (pg 14) Cheney's office "had tasked the CIA to determine if there was any truth to the report." (pg 14)

It is clear that Cheney was aware of the Niger report, and had directed his office to have the CIA do an investigation of it. There is evidence that on March 5, the CIA gave VP Cheney an oral report on Wilson's findings. This was three days before the State Department spokesperson told the media, "We fell for it," and that Wilson told CNN that the State Department had more information on that subject. March 8 was also the day that the "workshop" to discredit Wilson was held in Cheney's office.

"What I Didn't Find" vs "16 Words"

The White House retracted President Bush's infamous 16 words immediately after Wilson's op-ed appeared in the New York Times.
On 7-13-03, Condi Rice told Fox News Sunday that, "It is ludicrous to suggest that the president of the United States went to war on the question of whether Saddam Hussein sought uranium from Africa."
On 7-14-03, Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame's identity. It is important to recognize that Novak was aware that Plame was an operative who specialized in WMDs, and that he had been asked by the CIA not to reveal her identity, or even print her name, in an article on Wilson.

The White House continued to engage in efforts to discredit Wilson, including sending three identical e-mails of "talking points" to Keith Olbermann when Wilson was appearing on MSNBC's Countdown.
1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act

Wilson notes that the administration had already acknowledged the Niger-Iraq link was unsubstantiated, and that logically, they should have focused attention on how the 16 words made their way into the president's State of the Union address. The effort to expose Plame's identity made little sense. (pg 7)

Later, he continues with, "The White House gained nothing by publicizing Valerie's name..." (pg 7)
"Then it struck me that the attack by Rove and the administration on my wife had little to do with her, but a lot to do with others who might be tempted to speak out." (pgs 5-6)
"The decision of the president's people to come after me .... arose from no concerns over the emergence of secrets from my mission -- there weren't any." (pg 339)
"However offensive, there was a certain logic to it. If you have something to hide, one way to keep it secret is to threaten anyone who might expose it. But it was too late to silence me." (pg 338)


Goal #3: Why Cheney Exposed Plame

Wilson notes that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor, pointed out that since the Bush people had never backed down before, the fact that they had been "so quick to admit their error this time meant they must have something more important to protect." (pg 4)

In Worse Than Watergate, John Dean calls the exposing of Plame the "Dirtiest of Dirty Tricks." He writes that "revealing her identity damaged the national security and her career, and resulted in the loss of a valuable government asset." He called this action "literally life-threatening." (pgs 170-171)

What could have possibly been so important to VP Cheney that he oversaw the violating of the 1982 IIPA, and risked a White House scandal? The answer clearly can not be found in goals #1 or #2.
The answer, which supports goal #3, appears in Klein's article: "Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. ..... 'Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll' of the CIA, an intelligence source told me."

And that very high-ranking official may have known through his parallel national security office about the activities that Plame was involved with at that time. The answer to goal #3 likely is to be found in the checklist of things Valerie Plame did to mitigate the damage done by Novak's article immediately after she read it.

Conclusions

This paper presents direct evidence that the intelligence group that operates out of VP Cheney's office orchestrated the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, in order to realize goal #1, the "punishing" of Joseph Wilson for publicly challenging President Bush.

It includes both direct and circumstantial evidence from sources including Wilson, Dean, Klein, and others, that indicates they also had goal #2 in mind: to intimidate any other potential sources that could challenge their reasons for invading Iraq, as well as other measures in their "war on terorism."

Yet these two goals alone do not explain why VP Cheney would (1) take part in a measure that would violate a federal law against exposing a CIA operative, or (2) risk a serious scandal for the Bush Administration.

The possibility that VP Cheney was hoping to derail a sting operation involving Valerie Plame, which is our identified goal #3, does explain why VP Cheney would condone the breaking of the federal law, and risk the most serious scandal that this administration faces.

Further research by an ad hoc DU "think tank" has identified possible connections between businesses connected to VP Cheney that may be associated with the sale of WMD components to countries in the Middle East. It is our belief that this theory and the evidence that supports it needs a more in-depth investigation.

[HereSince1628]

45. John Dean argues that Fitzgerald's plenary power is vast

If it is, and Fitzgerald has the power to pursue the underlying motives behing the outing of Plame, this would certainly be within the scope of his investigation.

Have you shared the Waterman Paper with Fitzgerald's office?

[FreedomAngel82]

63. Exactly

Good point. These people never admit they're wrong about something and when they do it should be a clue. They're just using the Wilson angle to make it seem like it's not a big deal when it is.

[Mountainman]

7. I have always wondered why they did not successfully plant WMDs

They knew as well as we did that there were no WMDs yet their rhetoric was so strong that I felt they had to plant them to back up what they were saying. It makes no sense to say they existed and send inspectors in to find them knowing they really didn't exist. Something or someone foiled their plans.

[FredStembottom]

29. Let me "me-too" this one

I have never been able to accept the psychology of the Bush cabal admitting that there were no WMDs. That was EVERYTHING to them! And planting them during the chaos in Iraq is a no-brainer when you consider the basic, abiding dishonesty of this regime. I have been personally convinced that they had to have been STOPPED somehow. Just on the psychology of it - but I hadn't seen any real evidence.

My guess was that they had been somehow discovered by british intelligence in mid-plot and stopped by a Tony Blair that just wouldn't go THAT far.

The Brewster-Jennings theory is, of course, much much better of a theory!:thumbsup:

[FreedomAngel82]

64. Brewster Jennings??

:shrug:

[ladjf]

8. I have long believed that the reason you stated was the real

motive behind the Plame outing. Face it, Wilson's op-eds weren't powerful enough to warrant such dangerous counter tactics. But, the threat of discoveries by Plame and her team was. If we are lucky and Fitzgerald is good we may find out the whole story. But, I doubt that it will happen.

[Botany]

10. I also think that Brewster Jennings was active and in

Saudi Arabia and * & company had to protect their bankers.

Remember B & J was undercover and looking @ Aarmmco.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. My hubby who was in army security

and pays little to no attention to politics said this very thing when the Plame story first came out. If I remember correctly he said 'bush must be pissed off at the CIA'. He has also wondered ever since if poppy bush is pleased with his spawn. Then the other day, I read somewhere that poppy and dubya rarely speak these days.

Man, I married a smart man. :)

[flyarm]

12. whislteblower is afraid..she knew of the planting of wmd in iraq!

check out the date of this piece!! i kept it in my files!!

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/06/Whistleblower.html

Real History and the Iraq War

Posted Saturday, June 28, 2003



snip:

June 20, 2003


A DOD whistleblower reportedly details an attempt by a covert U.S. team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was said to have been later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.

Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/ DoD Fiascos

IN a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert operations team had planted "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (WMDs) in Iraq -- then "lost" them when the team was killed by so-called "friendly fire."

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

According to Al Martin Raw.com, "Ms.Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.

snip:

"According to Ms. Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq," reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides "Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence."

Al Martin is a retired Lt. Commander (US Navy), the author of a memoir called The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider, and he is considered one of America's foremost experts on corporate and government fraud.

Ms. Rogers reports that this particular covert operation team was manned by ex-military personnel and that "the unit was paid through the Department of Agriculture in order to hide it, which is also very commonplace."
According to Al Martin Raw.com, "the Ag Department has often been used as a paymaster on behalf of the CIA, DIA, and NSA and others."

According to the Al Martin Raw.com story, another aspect of Ms. Rogers' report concerns a covert operation which was to locate the assets of Saddam Hussein and his family, including cash, gold bullion, jewelry and assorted valuable antiquities.

The problem became evident when "the operation in Iraq involved 100 people, all of whom apparently are now dead, having succumbed to so-called 'friendly fire.' The scope of this operation included the penetration of the Central Bank of Iraq, other large commercial banks in Baghdad, the Iraqi National Museum and certain presidential palaces where monies and bullion were secreted."

"They identified about $2 billion of cash in US dollars, another $150 million in Euros, in physical banknotes, and about another $100 million in sundry foreign currencies ranging from Yen to British Pounds," reports Al Martin.

"These people died, mostly in the same place in Baghdad, supposedly from a stray cruise missile or a combination of missiles and bombs that went astray," Martin continues. "There were supposedly 76 who died there and the other 24 died through a variety of 'friendly fire,' 'mistaken identity,' and some of them -- their whereabouts are simply unknown."


futher proof of this is as follows ..from my files:

fly

AND MORE BACKUP..
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/08/we_53...

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html

[Me.]

16. Excellent Piece

Am hoping all this finds it's way to the surface now.

[Cults4Bush]

24. Maybe you should do a LynntheDem style compilation of those, I had never

read that before.

I am sure that Sibel ties into this as well.

If you make a thread PM me so I know to come and comment. Thanks for that great post.

[flyarm]

32. sorry i am running out for weekend right now!! no time

sorry hubbys birthday and going away today..
no time!!

fly

[coffeenap]

33. fly, does anyone know her current whereabouts? Is she ok? nt

[flyarm]

89. I DO NOT KNOW..I WISH I DID!!..N/T

[flyarm]

91. I HAVE SENT THIS INFO TO LARRY JOHNSON ..OVER A

month ago, hoping to get this info to fitz...and i had others trying to get it to fitz...

i just hope fitz is looking in these directions!!

i don't know how we could connect the dots of this and DR David Kelly , and fitz wouldn't be, if he is truely legit..it is so obvious...to all of us who have watched this from the get go..many of us put the connections of Dr. David Kelly from the get go...and also of the whistleblowers..i fear for their lives, i just hope this woman has been in touch with fitz...but honestly, if i was in that position, i don't know that there would be anyone i would trust! not in this government!!
too many suicides and weird car crashes , if you know what i mean!!

fly

[proud patriot]

53. flyarm please read

in the future please limit your snips of articles to 4
paragraphs as per the Democratic Underground copyright
rules .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground

[flyarm]

86. YES I KNOW BUT THE ARTICLE IS ALMOST 3 YRS OLD..

AND WASN'T ALWAYS coming up for me..so i was afraid it wouldn't come up for others and i was going out of town and couldn't reply to anyone wanting the jist of the article...its tough when articles are so old, but they are pertinent..i always obey the rules, and i usually put a disclaimer..i was just rushed for time..sorry...i have thousands of articles in my files that after so long the links no longer work...
fly

[MindPilot]

13. kicked and nominated

IIRC there were several posts right after the invasion wherein we DUers speculated that the WH would take a cue from LAPD and have some throw-down nukes on hand.

[Neocondriac]

14. As more layers of this onion are peeled back.......

we see an unbelievably vile core. Nothing at this point should surprise anyone.

[WinkyDink]

15. "Planted by a covert team later killed by CIA incompetence"?

Sounds like "killed to silence the witnesses" to me.

And, of course, if Bushco planned to plant the WMD's, the crumbs lead ineluctably to 9/11 LIHOP, at the least.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. Kicked and nominated, this needs to be mailed to Fitzgerald so

he can be aware of the much larger picture.

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Kansas Wyatt]

20. I thought of this last night when a Republican Congresswoman

Asked, if the Democrats think Bush lied about WMDs, then why didn't Bush just plant WMDs in Iraq.

Too bad the Republican Congress can't ever investigate themselves.

[notadmblnd]

25. That rookie idiot Mepublican Congresspig from the Great State of Michigan

Candice Miller. I'd love to shove this down her throat. Embarassment she is to our state.

[Twist_U_Up]

28. exactly !!

I was wondering the same thing. Now this . Its all coming together

[lovuian]

21. I believe that this is the REAL Reason!!!

Its a hoorible regime destroying truly patriotic Americans!!!

[ClayZ]

23. I believe Fitzgerald knows!

:woohoo:


Fitzmas Tree is growing!

[Me.]

26. Oh I Believe He Knows

And lots more too. But if he can bring it to the forefront in this investigation is another matter. Don't forget that he has been in consult with McNulty who is in charge of the AIPAC case, arranging for the Italians to give him the yellowcake papers. H20's contention that the Plame case is one leaf of the clover is very much in evidence here. So if FitzG. can't get it out one way, it will come out in another.

[Twist_U_Up]

30. Has Fitz questioned the Wilsons ??

Can they tell him this ? Can anyone tell him this ?

27. Remember David Kelly

At about 3:00 p.m., Kelly told his wife that he was going for a walk. He appears to have gone directly to an area of woodlands about a mile away from his home, where he ingested up to 29 tablets of co-proxamol, an analgesic drug. He then allegedly cut his left wrist with a knife he had owned since his youth.

As specialist medical professionals, we do not consider the evidence given at the Hutton inquiry has demonstrated that Dr David Kelly committed suicide. Dr Nicholas Hunt, the forensic pathologist at the Hutton inquiry, concluded that Dr Kelly bled to death from a self-inflicted wound to his left wrist. We view this as highly improbable. Arteries in the wrist are of matchstick thickness and severing them does not lead to life-threatening blood loss.

Although levels of Co-Proxamol in the blood were higher than therapeutic levels, Allan conceded that the blood level of each of the drug's two components was less than a third of what would normally be found in a fatal overdose. We dispute that Dr Kelly could have died from haemorrhage or from Co-Proxamol ingestion or from both.


email day of his death:

Loftus, Paul (LDR-LON)
From: David Kelly
Sent: 17 Jul
To: ,r
Subject: you
I will wait until the end of the week before judging - many dark actors playing games. Thanks for your support I appreciate your friendship at this time .
Best,
David
-----0 i inal Mess e-----
From :
Sent : 16 July 2003 00 :30
To :
SubMjeIctMyou
David,
I heard from another member of your fan club that things went well for you today Hope it's true J

http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,1131833,00.html

[passy]

60. Wasn't the email sent to Judy Miller?

I remember reading that somewhere. Can anyone confirm?

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. Judy Miller was the LAST person to speak to him, via email, before he died

I think she was involved in his murder. He was excited about his daughter's wedding. He would not have killed himself. He was murdered and IMCPO, Miller was involved.

71. Yes, the email was to Judith Miller

from wikipedia


On the morning of July 17, Kelly was working as usual at home in Oxfordshire. One of the e-mails he sent that day was to New York Times journalist Judith Miller <1>, who had used Kelly as a source in a book on bioterrorism, to whom Kelly mentioned "many dark actors playing games,"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly

[StateSecrets]

34. Turkey, again?

Now, what does Marc Grossman, Feith, and Perle have in common? In 2002, John Ashcroft invoked the rarely invoked State Secret Privilege and cited 'protecting certain foreign relations.'

Cheers

[newyawker99]

40. Hi StateSecrets!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Beam Me Up]

44. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Gregorian]

35. Sibel Edmonds???? (And what now?)

Is this all coming together now? Or is her information not the same thing?

Where does this all go from here? Fitzgerald, and whom else?

We had better get them frozen before they start another war, or have another 9/11.

[StateSecrets]

37. IAI

The answer:'International Advisors Inc.'

Do you know where Wilson met Plame? ATC= American Turkish Council, in Washington DC, in 1997, while she was undercover.

According to Edmonds' legal filings, and the VF article last August, he organizations involved in State Secret Privilege case: ATC, ATA(American Turkish Assoc.', and certain Turkish business groups (front companies).

Also, check Zeki Bilmen case with 'Giza Technologies', involved in Karni & Homayun Khan nuclear black market network.

[Me.]

39. Interesting!

Welcome to DU

[Spazito]

41. I agree, the cover' Brewster Jennings' is key to this

The complete absence of the mention of Brewster Jennings, after the initial flurry caused by Novak's second article, is very telling, imo. It cannot be to protect something that no longer exists in it's former state nor can it be to protect anyone who would have been associated with the cover operation as that was blown out of the water by Novak.

I find it interesting the media seems determined to sell the 'petty revenge' aspect as vociferously as they are doing without even touching upon any other possible reasons for the outing.

[Old and In the Way]

47. If the yellowcake evidence was so key to this administration's case

for war, why would they have allowed an outsider with integrity (Wilson) to investigate it? Especially knowing, as we do know, that this was a known forgery that might yet be linked back to this WH? Why not send someone friendly to this administration to evaluate the evidence?

I think a crucial part of this story is finding out just how Wilson was selected. The Right seems to want to make Ms. Plame the central actor in this process....but I think we might find that that the actual circumstances might be subtlely different, in an important way. I would not be surprised if the question of 'who goes' was choreographed by this administration to make sure Valerie was in the loop and that the intended answer was elicited from her, 'how about sending Joe?'.

Who knows? Maybe the yellowcake Niger evidence was always about taking out this critical CIA operation in such a way as to allow political revenge to be the covering reason. Who'd doubt that this administration's typical reaction to whistleblowers would be political revenge?

I do recall reading about the VX nerve gas busted smuggling operation in Turkey. If I remember correctly, the nerve gas was found hidden in the floor boards of a taxi, stopped at the Iraqi/Tirkey border. Perhaps this story's exposure signaled the end of the plan to get WMD into Iraq. I know we, at DU, were speculating if this was a covert operation to plant WMD as justification for the causus belli. Odd that the story seemed to go nowhere...but maybe it did more than we realized at the time.

[Me.]

49. Everything In It's Own Time

Seems to apply here. Just six months ago the atmosphere was so different, the fix was still in and the media was still asleep at the wheel. Katrina for all it's misery brought blessings with it, for it was that situation that seemed to shock people enough to put down their glasses of kool-aid. People either didn't want to know or refused to believe we could be so betrayed by the denizens of this corrupt administration.

[Spazito]

51. The White House didn't know Wilson had been sent until after the fact

Cheney told the CIA to investigate it and left it with them. The CIA chose to send Wilson because, simply, he had the credentials and connections due to his past service in that area.

A question to be asked is: Why did Cheney tell the CIA to follow up on the Niger/yellowcake documents? Was his intent to have an official CIA opinion that the documents and, therefore, the false position put forth that Saddam was actively pursuing WMDs to back up the initial lie? We know for a fact Cheney was making numerous visits to the CIA, which was very unusual for a VP to do. What was the purpose of his visits if not to 'catapult' that which backed up the bush admin's rhetoric and suppress that which would counter their rhetoric.

The irony here, imo, is that Cheney expected an 'in-house' investigation of the Niger/yellowcake story but, instead, the CIA went outside the organization to someone with integrity to actually follow-up on it, the last thing Cheney wanted.

[riderinthestorm]

59. Wilson was (is?) a Republican

I don't think he had given the Admin or anyone any kind of inkling that he had this kind of "fire" within him to confront them on their lies.

I can't remember reading where he is or was a Republican but I'm fairly sure that he was perceived by the Admin as friendly to their cause at least.

But his integrity certainly is/was the tipping point in the saving of whatever kind of republic can still be salvaged at this point.

[Spazito]

61. I can find nothing credible that spells out his political affiliation

or membership. He has served both democratic and republican administrations. Again, the White House did NOT know that Wilson had been sent to Niger to investigate until after the fact so they would have had no reason to consider him in the picture at all until he had reported back and it became known he was even involved.

[Old and In the Way]

66. How do you know this?

"The White House didn't know Wilson had been sent until after the fact"...just curious. If thar's based on a direct quote from the WH, I tend to believe the opposite is true.

[Me.]

72. That Very Point

was used to question Wilson's credibility. He wrote he went at the request of the VP's office. They said they never asked him to go. What it seems happened is that they asked CIA to check out the Niger story. As a response to that request the CIA decided to send someone to Niger to check it out. After asking V. Plame about his qualifications for such a trip (surely they already knew) he was asked to a meeting (which she did not attend) and it was decided in the meeting that he would go to Niger to check out the yellow cake story.

[Virginian]

78. Cheney asked CIA to look into it, but never asked what they discovered.

n/t

[Me.]

79. He Just Wanted To Have Them Look

so he could make a case for an ongoing investigation

[H2O Man]

80. Cheney was aware

of the CIA's conclusions.

[H2O Man]

52. Niger and yellow cake ....

The reason that the vice president was so focused on the yellow cake, was because the "threat" of Saddam acquiring nuclear capabilities was needed as the "icing on the cake" for the US's case to invade Iraq.

Remember, Cheney (along with Libby and Gingrich) were pressuring the CIA about a number of WMD-related issues. There had already been two investigations of the Niger rumor. One was done for CI, the other for MI. Both found no evidence to support the claim that an Iraqi delegation had attempted to buy yellow cake, and both suggested it was simply not true.

British intelligence, for reasons that will never likely be known, since David Kelly's untimely exit, continued to suggest that, because there was no direct evidence the attempt to discuss a future sale had not been considered by an Iraqi official, that there was likely truth to the story.

Cheney, hearing this again in one of his daily briefings, went to the Agency, and pressured them to revisit the issue. He did not know that they would choose to do so by sending the person they felt was most qualified, because of his previous employment history, which included an intimate familiarity with the production and sale of yellow cake, as well as having served as ambassador in Africa and Iraq.

Sending a person who was well-qualified and completely capable of exposing the yellow cake rumors as nonsense was not what Cheney and his associates at State intended. Keep in mind that there was a divide in the State Department: many there were not under Cheney's thumb, and were even more outspoken in their beliefs the Niger business was fake.

Thus, Cheney's actual goal was to open up the discussion on Niger, not resolve it. He never intended it would be resolved; he wanted it to be a "we are not entirely sure, butwe simply cannot risk having the smoking gun be a mushroom cloud." Make sense?

[Old and In the Way]

65. Seems risky. A lot depends on the originator of the forgeries.

If, in fact, the actual forgeries were facilitated by people close to this administration, I'd have to believe that this was done with the blessings of the prime movers. The fact that the FBI seems quite reluctant in finding the source of the forgeries makes me think there is some reason to believe this might be the case.

And why go to such great lengths to show evidence of Iraqi intent to buy yellowcake when they had stocks of it available in Iraq? I believe they even had their own mining operation.

If the plan to invade Iraq was finalized in early 2001 (I'm assming those secret energy meetings provided the necessary cover), certainly they had to settle on a reason to invade. That was apparently the 'imminent WMD' marketing point. So it seems likely that they'd be busy getting their 'evidence' in order, too. They must have also considered the political fallout if their causus belli was proved false, so I'd assume they'd have a plan to make sure there were WMD availalbe, just in case.

I really don't know why outing Plame would really hurt Wilson; seems they could have gone after the messenger more directly...IRA audits,
faked scandal, etc. Seems counter-intuitive that they'd damage their GWOT by taking out key CIA assets involved with this very issue. Unless this GWOT is itself a lie and she presented a problem based on what she knew or what she would find out. When Joe Wilson's OPED piece was released, could this have signaled that Ms. Plame could not be trusted with supporting the neocon agenda and so this administration had to get her out? Removing her directly would have raised red flags...but using a cover of political revenge via a friendly Washington media would seem to be an easy way to expose and remove her.

[Me.]

68. This Is Where The AIPAC Scandal Comes Into Play

I think we're going to find as more comes out with this situation that the answers about the forgeries will become evident. There's been a number of articles in the last month or tow which points the finger at Michael Ledeen. That would place the forgeries squarely in the noecons' laps. Furthering their case for war with Iraq, which was to be the wedge to ME domination.

[MellowOne]

42. It's getting better and better

Keeping 'em talking and investigating, we'll get "em yet!

[librechik]

43. I love this part of the "coup" narrative

it makes everything make sense so dramatically, where a moment before the strange behavior of certain individuals was completely baffling.

I've read several references to Plame's sting. I wonder why this aspect is so played down in the press. Great story for an investigative reporter follow.

[Occulus]

46. Yeah, I think I mentioned this possibility several times...

As I recall, the common concensus was that it was simple revenge against Wilson, and in fact he himself asserts as much in his book.

The problem is, nothing so serious is ever so simple. We can go right on ahead assuming the worst about this administration, but the truth always seems to be yet another step along the path of BAD.

[Old and In the Way]

48. I wonder what Ms. Plame knows about this nerve gas operation?

November would be about the right time to start getting the evidence into Iraq so it could be found by Judy Miller after the invasion. Was this exposure the work of her operation? Wouldn't that be interesting to know.

[progressoid]

50. Seeing Wayne's name made me don my tinfoil hat...

but it certainly is an intriguing theory.

[Me.]

54. Know What You Mean

But I trust Josh Marshall's instincts and he had the story on TPM.

[AnnieBW]

55. From the beginning

I've believed that from the time that I heard that Ms. Plame was working on WMD issues. I have heard rumors that WMDs were "found" in Iraq, but it couldn't be proven that they were Iraqi. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Plame and her team discovered a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, or disagreed with the idea of it in a meeting. Remember that the CIA is a big agency, and the right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing. Not to mention that it's just one Intel agency.

[undergroundpanther]

56. Looks plausible to me considering...

Tuesday, August 12, 2003
US tried to plant WMDs, failed: whistleblower

Daily Times Monitor

According to a stunning report posted by a retired Navy Lt Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department (DoD), the Bush administration’s assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was based on a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to “plant” WMDs inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by “friendly fire”, the Environmentalists Against War report.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9

A copy of the Tehran Times article that started it..
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/130304usunloading.html

[IronLionZion]

57. So Turkey has nerve gas????

:wtf:

Why would Turkey have nerve gas? If that doesn't bother you, then it should.

[Ilsa]

58. I need help with a point here about the WMD:

Who was supposed to receive the VX in Iraq from Turkey? This was before the war, correct? So did Bush/Cheney have ops in there ready to hide it? Was it specialists from our guys in Afghanistan?

[Guaranteed]

67. Holy crap. I have to admit that I'm skeptical, though.

How credible is this?

[Disturbed]

70. What does James Pavitt know?

DCI TENET ANNOUNCES DEPARTURE OF DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR OPERATIONS ...
... the CIA's Deputy Director for Operations (DDO), will be departing the Agency at
... Tenet said James Pavitt, currently the Associate Deputy Director for ...
www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/press_release/1999/pr050799.html

James Pavitt was v. Plame's direct boss.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

73. This is some blackhearted evil shit.

I went ot school on the Plame threads - I don't have the intellect that alot of contributors here have, but I am gradually becoming convinced, and, frankly, I am disarmed - I never imagined that such evil could occupy the hallowed halls...

I sure am curious about the whole 9/11 thing, too.

[Me.]

74. Welcome To DU

especially to a fellow "Plame person"

[NastyRiffraff]

76. Thanks for posting the Waterman Paper!

I missed that one, somehow, and it's great. I've always believed that this was a "two-fer" and it wasn't ONLY to get back at Joe Wilson. I always thought that they really wanted Valerie, especially after Rove's remark to Tweety that "Wilson's wife is fair game." If they were only after Joe, that remark makes no sense.

[Me.]

77. Amazing Isn't It

How many of us have been thinking that? Now if we could only get the message into some media heads.

[NNN0LHI]

81. I wonder if this was another Brewster Jennings catch?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2286597.stm



Turkish police seize smuggled uranium

Turkish police say they have seized 100 grams of weapons grade uranium, which had been smuggled into the country from Eastern Europe.

At first officers announced gave the quantity as 15 kilograms (34.5 pounds) but later explained that this included the weight of a lead container.

Two men have been arrested for questioning in the south of the country, close to the Syrian border.

According to the Turkish state news agency, the uranium was being transported in a taxi, concealed beneath the seats.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/29/turkey.uranium/

Turkish uranium suspects released

ISTANBUL, Turkey (CNN) -- Turkish authorities Sunday released two men accused of attempting to smuggle a quantity of uranium, saying the amount in their possession was only a fraction of what officials originally estimated.

Turkish officials announced Saturday they had seized a box filled with nearly 35 pounds (15 kilograms) of uranium. But Muzaffer Dilek, the mayor of Sanliurfa, a Turkish city near the Turkey-Syria border, said Sunday that the material amounted to only 140 grams -- about five ounces.

The two men arrested with the material were released due to lack of evidence and have since disappeared, Dilek said.

The material is being taken to a nuclear research facility in Ankara to determine its composition, Turkey's Ministry of Internal Affairs said. That analysis was expected to be complete by Monday.

When this happened I thought it was probably an Army "Intelligence" job. They even spelled uranium wrong on the lead container. Wonder if the CIA caught them and gave Turkey the collar so their people didn't know the CIA is in their country? Later turned out it wasn't uranium at all in the container?

[Peace Patriot]

82. I suspect that David Kelly is the key to it all. His anonymous whistle-

blowing to the BBC (last week of May, 2003), his getting outed to his bosses (mid-to-late June), interrogation by Brit intel (late June), and death (July 17), exactly parallel the Traitorgate events, time-wise. He was found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances, three days after Plame was outed. His office and computers were searched. Four days later, Brewster-Jennings was outed.

There is an interesting item in the Hutton report (otherwise a whitewash), that, on July 7, Tony Blair was informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things"--COULD say, not HAD said. Kelly was in a prime position to hear about and investigate a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq. He was an old hand at Iraq WMDs, had visited the country many times, had friends there, loved the country; had personally faced down Saddam Hussein. Tough guy, excellent scientist, from all reports.

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies uniformly attribute the Plame outing to the Wilson article publication, July 6. But I think the real trigger for the Plame outing may have been a call from Tony Blair to Bush, July 7, warning them that Kelly knew of their plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, and that it had been foiled. The Bushites then took hasty, precipitous action to out Plame--calling at least SIX reporters (journalist witnesses to treason) to find a news patsy to get her outed immediately, and putting many top Bushites at high risk of treason charges. Their actions seem panicky to me. Why punish Wilson this way, at such high risk? And why the rush? And why involve so many top people in such a naked crime? I think there was a lot more at stake than the public dissent of an ex-diplomat, or than that particular lie to the public (re: nukes). I suspect that outing Plame and BJ was a coverup of their botched WMD-planting plot, which Kelly (who was not a covert agent, so far as we know--he was an outfront WMD expert) might expose. (Wilson, like Plame, may also not be in a position to reveal what was really going on here. He says it was to silence whistleblowers, and that certainly is the truth, but may not be the whole truth, which he is not at liberty to divulge, or cannot risk divulging. And it's bad enough that they would destroy a CIA career and an entire CIA project, and put many loyal people at risk of death, to silence dissent, which was surely one of their motives, but possibly not their chief motive.)

The WMD "sting" operation that Plame and BJ may have been involved in, at the time of their outing (mentioned by Madsen), could have been not a sting, but a discovery and foiling of illicit nuke components or materials, or other WMDs, being moved to Iraq, just after the invasion, with the Bushites behind that movement, planned in Rome at the Ladeen-Ghorbanifar meeting. My guess for prime mover behind a WMD-planting plot would be Rumsfeld, with Cheney doing the Plame-outing dirty work, and getting Rove to do a cover story at Rumsfeld's behest. Libby's apparent smugness in his "aspens" letter to Judith Miller--that the "aspens" were all connected at the roots, and that she could come out and play now ("come back to work--and life") to cover stories like Iranian nukes and "biological threats," may mean that Rumsfeld had secured deniability and would not be indicted, in Libby's opinion, and therefore their plots to manufacture an excuse to invade Iran (and/or Syria) and dominate the Middle East, were still viable. (I understand that Rumsfeld may now be a target of Fitzgerald's investigation--speculation about it on another thread today.)

How do the Niger forgeries fit into this theory? People forget that the Niger forgeries were not just forgeries, they were CRUDE forgeries--easily debunkable docs. If the Bushites (probably Rumsfeld) commissioned them, why didn't they commission less detectable forgeries? The group that met in Rome were not novices--surely they could have done forgeries that, at the very least, didn't have the wrong dates and names on them!

So, why CRUDE forgeries? My guess: It was an enticement to the CIA to come out publicly and say no nukes in Iraq--to be followed up by Judith Miller's "find" of nuke components or materials in Iraq (planted there by the Rome group in cahoots with Rumsfeld and his DoD goosesteppers)--thus to discredit the CIA forever, and leave an open playing field for Bushite spooks and private operatives to manufacture incidents and events at will, for whatever mass looting, death and torture--or profit--was desired.

If this is the true arc of the Traitorgate story--from the Niger forgeries (not intended to fool anyone, but rather to bait the CIA), to phony confirmation of the Bush regime's allegation about nukes (by means of planting them in Iraq, post-invasion)--then I've no doubt that both the original plot, and the panicky effort to cover it up when exposure threatened, was a widespread conspiracy, involving both Rumsfeld and Cheney and their aides and others (Ahmad Chalabi springs to mind), with Rumsfeld probably as the mastermind of the original plot (to "get" the CIA, and gain the enormous political advantage from a "find" of WMDs in Iraq at the same time).

Although Cheney was the front man at pressuring the CIA to produce intelligence to order, it was Rumsfeld who was running a parallel CIA, his "Office of Special Plans," where toadyism reigned. He would have had an equal, if not not more intense, hatred for honest, patriotic CIA analysts and agents. He created a whole new ad hoc agency to get around them--that is, to get people to commit acts that the honest insiders wouldn't tolerate.

Imagine how furious Rumsfeld, Cheney & Co. would have been to find out that the 'white hat' CIA had foiled part 2 of this nasty scheme! (--that is, had discovered and prevented the planting of WMDs in Iraq.) And then, how panicked they would have been that Kelly had found out about it. And at that point (July 2003), they couldn't know how far it had gone--who else might know? Full panic mode fits well with what they actually did--an all out, full court press to silence Plame immediately and disable her entire WMD non-proliferation project, at any risk. Exposure of their attempted deceit had to be prevented, from their point of view--and they began using and risking anybody and everybody to get that accomplished. (For instance, they drew Rove into their scheme, and put him at risk of treason charges, in order to shop the story that the Plame outing was Rovian revenge--an all too believable motive. There is a story that Rove became furious when he found out how he had been used and put at risk. It's my pet theory that what he told Fitzgerald at the last minute was that he had been wrongly advised on the legality of what he was doing, and named names--maybe Harriet Miers, was my wild guess, considering her abrupt withdrawal of her Sup Ct nomination just two days before Fitzgerald's news conference, and Fitgerald's last minute visit to Bush's Plame case lawyer, hours before his press conference.)

I most certainly do suspect them of "suiciding" Kelly, or ordering up his death. I think they are just like any criminal gang. They have no patriotism or loyalty, not even to insider white guys. If he's having pangs of conscience about the war, and becomes a major threat, get rid of him.

They outed Plame, and furthermore outed her entire project, 20 years in the making--the U.S.'s eyes and ears upon WMDs around the world--putting every covert agent, asset and contact at risk of death (an act way in excess of 'punishing' Wilson for his dissent), and they may have killed Kelly as well--in order to cover this up, or to cover up something comparable (other illicit arms dealings? 9/11 complicity? --something serious). But a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq best fits the known facts, circumstances and actors, and explains many mysteries.

How else explain the crudeness of the Niger forgeries, or the outing of Brewster-Jennings, or the remarkable coincidence of Plame/Kelly dates, or the risky involvement of so many top Bushites, and other baffling items? The corporate news monopoly tale just doesn't hold up.

And, interestingly, Judith Miller turns up in the Kelly story as well. They were old friends and colleagues. She had used him as a major quoted source in her book "Germs." And it was to Miller that Kelly wrote his last email, on the day he died, in which he was concerned about the "many dark actors playing games." (--an email that was later released by his family, not by Miller.)

Can it be just a coincidence that Kelly was outed to his bosses--starting the chain of events that soon led to his death--at the same moment that Miller was meeting with Libby in a plot to out Plame (mid-June 2003)? Can it be that the common theme (silencing whistleblowers, outing insiders, disabling and endangering WMD experts, and putting them at risk of death) was just a coincidence?

Any theory is necessarily still up in the air, because there is so much that is unknown, and there has been so much secrecy. So I don't think anyone should wed themselves to a particular theory at this point. But I think the one outlined above is a bit more than theory--it is a good working hypothesis that needs further investigation.

[Me.]

83. You've Made Some Very Interesting Points

I certainly do think Wilson knows more than he is willing or can say. There is a lot more there.

As to whose plan it was to plant WMDs, I put it on the WHIG group and at least some part to the neos. The WMD matter was always, according to their thinking, a “plausible” reason Americans would accept for going to war with Iraq, hence furthering the neo agenda for an imperial America.

Why such crude forgeries? They never made sense. Unless they were in such a rush, and their arrogance so overwhelming they thought it didn’t matter. Perhaps they never thought they’d be questioned on them or that people would come forward. It’s not like they paid any attention to what our intelligence service or those of other countries had to say. They just didn’t care. They just put lipstick on that pig and then rigged the panel so she could win the beauty pageant. Though baiting the CIA into accepting a mistake in order to further prove their incompetence is thoroughly plausible.

As for J Miller and her association with David Kelly, it has an odor of eau de pew about it. That woman is up to her eyeballs in so much that it can only be a matter of time before she sets up a permanent abode in a jail cell. I’m waiting to see if McNulty does anything with her.

[coeur_de_lion]

84. Hi Me!

Thanks for a great post! Do you have a link to the original Madsen article? I looked and I wasn't able to find it. I would be interested to know where he got his information.

:hi:

[Me.]

85. Sorry Lionheart

Got it off Josh Marshall's site. But I'll look around.

[Me.]

88. Found It!

Scroll down to the 3rd entry under 11-11.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

Also, what a hoot, when looking I found this thread referenced on google.

[robertpaulsen]

87. Hi Me! Sorry I wasn't able to recommend this in time.

It's good to remind everyone of our work on the Plame Threads last year. It's amazing how much is coming out in Fitz's investigation!

[H2O Man]

90. Old Timers Day?

You, Me, and Corduroy Lion. Holy cow!

[Me.]

92. "Still Crazy After All These Years"

RP. - Good idea to repost American Judas. So much info was put together that so many haven't seen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5414535

[robertpaulsen]

93. Of course! It's the week of Fitzgiving!

This week's turkeys scheduled for carving have the initials R and H!

[kohodog]

94. And R is for...

Rove or Rumsfeld?

Inquiring minds want it to be both.