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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:14 AM
Original message
The Boiling Point
I think much like Mike Malloy, my Boiling Point with Republicans in general, or anyone who still supports this administration has been reached.

After Jean Schmidt's comments in the House, and the absolutely criminal Bill that was passed last night, which rapes the people AND the land to such extremes that anyone who still calls this a Free Country or a Democracy is a fool, and deserves nothing but The Lash, after the debasement and debauchery that has been displayed these past couple of months, I have simply had enough.

I am through trying to reason with these people, these sub-humans that run this country, and those that support their policies.

I'm through with holding out hope that somehow we can all co-exist and put our country back together.

This is WAR. I have no compassion, no understanding, no quarter, no parlay, no sympathy, and no use for ANY of these people.

This is the darkest time of our history, and though we have not yet seen the full effects of what has been done, we are in serious danger of losing everything. If it isn't too late already.

I am sick and tired of being told to take the High Road, to be passive, reasonable, to be above them, to be dignified. I'm tired of be told we have to watch what we say and do so that we don't get painted in a negative light, and turn others off to our cause.

FUCK THAT.

Enough is Enough.

We have finally reached a point where even 10% support for these people is sheer insanity.

People in this country need to wake up to some very simple, easy to understand facts about what they are facing.

You are up against an adversary that DOES NOT CARE. It has not one shred of humanity. Human life means NOTHING to these people. Morality, Right and Wrong, Reason, Logic, mean NOTHING. The majority of the American people, which means 95% of you, the well-being and interests of said people means NOTHING to these people.

You are dealing with something that functions on a purely primal level, where the only things that matter are very, very simple.

Power. Money. Greed. Control. And the Sustenance, expansion, and accumulation of those four ideas AT ANY COST. It does not matter. No matter what must be done. Murder, Thievery, Deception, Fraud, Rape, Pillaging, WHAT EVER IT TAKES. It is a very simple Tunnel-Vision concept. Anything that falls outside of this concept is simply ignored, discarded or destroyed.

If you need something to help you understand what you're up against, here are some Film References that Might help you.

Gordon Gecko's character in Wall Street.

The scene in Terminator where John Connor implores to Sarah Connor

"Listen! And understand! That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with! It can't be reasoned with! It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever", until you are dead!" Or when he is being interrogated by The Police: "You still don't get it, do you? He'll find her. That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! He'll wade through you, reach down her throat, and pull her fucking heart out!"

Or perhaps the Scene in Die Hard when Bonnie Be Delia confronts Alan Rickman: "All of this. Everything you've done. After all your posturing, all your speeches, you're nothing but a common thief."

Perhaps the scene in Independence Day at Area 51 when Bill Pullman asks the Aliens what they want us to do, and he gets a simple one word response.....

"Die."

These people do not deal with anything on a human level, because they are befret of humanity. They could care less about human life, the environment around them, or any concept regarding morals or principles. They simply stay on message with their agenda, March in lock step with whatever advances it. They are Soulless Monsters with no concept or care for consequences of their actions.

They simply want to steal, plunder and pillage ANYTHING that is not nailed down. It's very simple.

And I don't know which is worse, the thugs carrying this out, or the MORANS who support them.

The feeble-minded, willfully ignorant, racist, bigoted, homo-phobic, fake, fundamentalist, robotic, culture-less vacuous soldiers who Goose Step In Perfect Unison into whatever Hell has been prepared for the world, by these monsters.

I can no longer peacefully co-exist with these people. They are accessories. They are co-conspirators, willful or ignorant, misguided or fearful, it matters not. They are ALL Guilty. I cannot have these people around me. I cannot have them in my personal space. I do not have children, but if I did I would not accept them being around my children.

They are filthy, degenerate, and LOST. And I no longer find their very existence acceptable. They are aiding in the destruction of this country, and as individuals they have absolutely NOTHING to contribute to the progression of the human species. NOTHING. I deeply hesitate to use the word "Useless Eaters", because of the negative connotations behind it, but I no longer care.

We are being MURDERED. This is GENOCIDE. It may be slow enough, and calculated enough to make the declaration of it as such absurd, but the intent is CLEAR. The PURPOSE is clear. THAT is what is being DONE.

When are people going to learn these people DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING. THEY STAND FOR NOTHING. THEY BELIEVE IN NOTHING.

They are merely parasites who want to STEAL EVERYTHING for THEMSELVES, and leave the rest of us for DEAD.

We do not matter to them. We are garbage. We are disposable. We are nothing more than a MEANS TO AN END to ADVANCE AN AGENDA. We have no other purpose than to be used for whatever ridiculous fantasy they want to unleash upon the Planet. These people probably can't even achieve AROUSAL, unless they are killing, destroying, looting , or stealing SOMETHING.

Someone needs to say it. Ultimately, we MAY NOT be able to deal with them in a peaceful, reasonable manner. They are not going to give up what they have gained legally and peacefully.

Those who think they will need to ask themselves one simple question.

WHY WOULD THEY?

They have gotten away with so much, and they will do ANYTHING to keep the status quo. They will do WHATEVER IT TAKES. If they have to Kill, they will Kill, and they have done so. If they have to Steal, they will Steal, and they have done so. And on, and on, and on.

And NOTHING has stopped them.

What is to stop them? WHO is to stop them?

Me? YOU?

Nancy Pelosi?

Russ Feingold?

Al Gore?

WHAT OR WHO IS TO STOP THEM?

And I ask this, because so far, NO ONE or NOTHING HAS.

NOTHING.

They don't even bother to TRY to be inconspicuous anymore. Now, every day they simply rub everyone's nose in it. They LIE, They STEAL, They KILL, They PLUNDER, They PILLAGE, and they smile for the Camera and basically tell everyone "What The Fuck Are YOU Going To Do About It, CITIZEN?"

These are the most sub-human, vacant, dead-eyed, soulless creatures that have EVER walked the Earth.

Even with their Poll Numbers at all-time lows, with Federal Indictments handed down, with more on the way and Fitz sharpening his Axe, with Almost 70% of the country sour on what is going on, even with the Wheels Coming Off, these fucking ASSHOLES trudge forward.

And they are NOT going to STOP.

Because it's What THEY DO.

It's ALL THEY DO.

For those that read this and think it is a Doom And Gloom Post, I ask you to refrain from the notion.

You see, I have simply reached my Boiling Point.

I have Had enough. I am FED UP. I cannot TAKE ANYMORE OF THIS.

You might say I feel a little like this guy:



Or THIS Guy:



I am NOT GIVING UP. I am NOT GIVING IN. I am NOT ROLLING OVER.

I WILL GO DOWN SWINGING. Have NO Illusions.

I am simply saying Enough Is Enough.

This Country CANNOT GO ON LIKE THIS, and neither CAN IT'S PEOPLE.

This isn't about Right Or Left. Democrat Or Republican. Progressive Or Conservative.

This is About RIGHT AND WRONG.

And there is so much WRONG, that it is difficult to see how we can ever Make It RIGHT.

I have never in my life witnessed such Corruption,Depravity, and UTTER CONTEMPT for the very concept of ANYTHING that could remotely be considered right, just, and fair.

NEVER in my life have I seen such utter DISREGARD for RULE OF LAW, DUE PROCESS, or ANYTHING that separates us from PRIMATES.

For God Sakes they don't even FOLLOW any Rules or Laws anymore, and if they need to, they just MAKE THEM UP. Unwritten Rules And Regulations on The Fly, courtesy of your Congress. All you need to do is ask Al Franken how that works (See Armed Forces Radio Controversy.)

I have said it before and I will say it again.

I know most here, including me, think the most desirable conclusion to this sad tale is to bring these people DOWN, and make them ACCOUNTABLE
for the THINGS THEY HAVE DONE.

Convict Them. Jail Them. Make Them PAY as High A Price as Necessary.

But do it Legally And Peacefully.

But as the days go by, I am beginning to wonder if we will be able to find the answer to the simple question concerning that which must be done.

"HOW?"

Because they have all but taken away ANY remedy we may have to stop them. Legislative. Judaical. Executive. They have STOLEN all the options, and if we attempt to bring Justice, they simply ignore it or spin it away. We DO have Fitz, and he has given us all a glimmer of hope that we CAN restore some order, but still we cannot ignore what these people are capable of.

Does ANYONE REALLY THINK they are going to give up what they have gained LEGALLY and PEACEFULLY?

REALLY?

HONESTLY?

I don't think they will. Not for a minute.

WHY WOULD THEY?

I am an American, Born and Raised, but I am NOT a citizen of BUSH'S America. I want nothing to do with the country these people have created.

And for those who support them, Let's get Something Nice And Sparkling CLEAR:

Stay The Fuck Away From Me. Stay OUT of my personal space. I want NOTHING from you. I want NOTHING to do with you. I want NOTHING to do with your "vision" of what the world should be.

What DO I want from you?

Honestly?

I will freely admit there are days, and they are becoming more than not, that the Alien at Area 51 in Independence Day and I share quite a common ground on the answer to that question.

And I am NOT apologizing for it.

In the words of the Late, Great Bill Hicks, about the most conciliatory thing I can say for those people at this point is simply this:

Kill Yourself.

Seriously.

LET. MY. COUNTRY. GO.

::Rant Off::
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yep. You speak for many of us.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 03:18 AM by Erika
The sheeple are becoming fewer, if that gives you any comfort.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It is clear that they are.
I think that more and more of us are reaching a similar place in our lives every day. The utter MADNESS of it all is simply too much.

I lived through the Nixon years, and it was NOTHING like this. NOTHING. Nixon was CHRIST compared to these people.

And isn't IRONIC that one of the men who helped being him down is now a Traitor to the very country he sought to protect.

Bob Woodward, I name thee JUDAS.

Is there no limit to the atrocity, the depravity, the utter depths to which this country will have to endure before we are set free from these people.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. The fact the Woodward is on their side
Explains why he didn't say shit about voter fraud during the last two elections. It is ironic and it is sad.

First you fight the establishment, then you join them. Meanwhile, democracy dies a slow death.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'm not sure he ever fought it
bernie ward pointed out he was Navy Intel and CIA before going to the press... Op. Mockingbird comes to mind
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
151. Never CIA...if you look at his history you'll see a constant stream of...
...comments, both written and verbal, that have been critical of the CIA. But most definitely ONI, IMHO, and a member of ONI's version of Operation Mockingbird.

His writings about Watergate are filled with negative commentary about the CIA, primarily because the CIA refused to help Nixon cover-up his connections to Watergate.

His alleged hospital room interview of William Casey was an attempt to lay the sole blame for Iran-Contra at the feet of the CIA.

His alleged "slam dunk" quote from George Tenet, also making the CIA look bad, could only have come from the NeoCons present at the Crawford, TX, meeting.

The rightwing NeoCons of today are the political descendants of the same crowd that propelled Nixon to power in 1968. They, in turn, can be traced back to a hardcore group of people that developed or enhanced their rightwing views during WWII that led to the development of the National Security State. And they can be traced back to the rightwing group led by some senior military officers with coprporate backing that attempted to mount a coup against FDR in the 1930s.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #151
155. But the point is,
he never fought the system, for he is part of the system... and many of us were fooled. Once this is over, even his role in Watergate will have to be reviewed, carefully... and I hope files are open to the full light of day... going back to the late 1940s,
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Who on Earth told you to be passive? Or dignified? Or to watch
what you say?

I don't get that from reading DU for a couple of years at all. I think we're all about NOT being passive.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Please Understand my Post is NOT Directed at DU
It is directed at those who have told us in the past. While it is true I have even seen some of that sentiment on DU, Whether in the form of a troll or simply a misguided soul, believe me, it is definitely the EXCEPTION in the most extreme sense.

This ire is directed at those in general who have implored this in the past.

I simply cannot be passive about this anymore.

The hour is too late.

And we are not dealing with a foe that such will be effective against it.

I do wonder if even Ghandi himself would not have gotten pissed off and taken a few swings at these people, or picked up a torch and a pitchfork.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
128. Rahm Emanuel
and the DLC, that's who
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. What took you so long?
now seriously, I have been at that point since nOvember 2nd of 2004, if not earlier.

Welcome to the pissed off MAJORITY...
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. And I see that I am in very good and respectable company. :)
Coming from you I take that as an humbling honor and a compliment. :)

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well we used to be the minority
now we are the makority, so it should make our life, I hope... easier

;-)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
56. Good morning, TheWatcher.
:)
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
116. I want that on a bumper sticker!!


I'm a Member of the Pissed Off Majority




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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
145. The League of Pissed Off Voters has indeed morphed to become
The League of the Pissed Off Majority.

:toast:
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thats one Great rant...you said what I feel
anger outraged frustration stymied puzzled and confused as to why rightwing nuts allow this continued death debt and destruction.When
will they wake up from this illusion? How can we defeat this monster?
Corporate Facist Nazi loving pigs have stolen our country maybe WWIII
will happen and begin right here at home.Did you know if armies/navies from around the world came to the USA looking to capture
Bush/Cheney/Rumsey/Rice/Rove/Poppy/Baker/Perle/Wolfy and take them off to the Hague I'd support them...Does that make me an enemy?
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Check12 Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. Absolutely!
I have been saying for some time now that rich and the powerful in this country have already launched a class war with the rest of us.
They have been systematically lowering the standard of living for the middle class and folks below the poverty level. They allow legalized gambling and loan sharking, and drug pushing on TV. They have no respect for the environment or human dignity. They are scheming ways to take your home from you to bulldoze it to the ground and build yuppie condos at 3 million a pop. They want the masses poor and ignorant so they can be cannon fodder in their quest for global domination.

All that said, They will lose in the end, they always do. Like the french revolution, heads will roll!

Just think about this and cheer up.. 34%



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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I will feel a lot better when it's 4%
Or perhaps 3. :)
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. For the Mme DeFarges out there
Remember the media executives and all of the "commentators" and "reporters" who bear a large share of the blame.

I'm just sayin' in case the revolution starts...lets not forget who's been most complicit... ;-)
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
12. Brave American people or just passive?...
Citizens in Yogoslavia took over the government, the palace and kicked Molosovich out. If we Americans are so brave, why are we so afraid of invading the People's house and arresting these criminals?
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. Absolutely great rant
I totally agree with you and more and more people I know feel the same way.

I started out about four years ago on a rightwing board, wanting to learn about politics and to try to find out if I was the only one who had really bad feelings about this administation.

I tried to reason with them, looked up information and gave it to them. Tried to appeal to their humanity, regarding killing innocents etc. I developed relationships with them and thought that at least some of them would listen if they just got the facts.

But after the Abu Ghraib pictures came out, I thought that even they would have to condemn such horrors done in their name. They were silent for a day or so, and then they came back and repeated the Rush Limbaugh lies about 'college hazing' and laughed about 'panties on their heads' and after that I left and never went back.

What you say about them, that they are not human, I agree with that and I want nothing to do with them ~ I have (had) one friend who is totally indoctrinated and beyond hope. It's a phenomenon!! How did they do this to people who used to be kind and caring? I don't talk to her anymore, she and her current boyfriend are now freepers ~ they are lost, imo.

I don't know how this will end. I just hope there are patriots working behind the scenes who will save this country before it's too late.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
117. Mr. "I'm a uniter, not a divider" & his supporters have ripped
this country in two.

Families no longer share holidays together; long time friends no longer speak; employees engaged in rifts at the water cooler with fellow employees; kids at school getting in fights & arguments over their family's beliefs; people leaving their churches because of clergy politicizing G-d; & the list goes on.

It's heartbreaking to see & what is worse, is I don't think the other side is heart broken about it. I think they revel in it. They seem to enjoy the hate & strife. They enjoy being mean-spirited & nasty. The OP is right, they have lost their humanity.

I'm so sorry about your friend.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #117
133. I was already sad enough about the first thing you wrote about,
the way that friendships and families have broken over politics and the way that churches have become political echo chambers.

And then you pointed out what I hadn't realized--that the other side isn't heartbroken about it. They are still as smug as ever. They like it this way. It's more important to them to feel superior than to feel connected to their fellow human beings.

I just can't believe how quickly and totally we have become divided--in America, of all places, where differences of opinion and free speech are a birthright.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. WAIT for US...we are coming to join you....
We of like feelings....we come to fight too. We bring our pikes and our poles, our knives and swords, our guns and torches, our hearts and souls....we fight this evil called Conservatism...
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Come. We Go Storm The Castle Gates. :)
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 03:54 AM by TheWatcher
I'm right there with you, my friend. :)
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. It is US who are there with YOU.
CE the CY

Kill the Spawn Tubes

Storm the CC

Use heavy armor

Come, we go BD to the main floor.
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Yes! We know who we are, we can tell on sight. This we know. I yearn
for the day that we unite, I yearn!!

The times for true Humans to rise from the ashes of this world is near!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. THEY are the ones in the boiling pot,
but THEY don't know it yet. :D

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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. If nothing else, I bet that was cathartic for you.
I wrote a post this morning about how much I hate Bush. I thought I spoke for many many people here at DU. There were 5 responses and 2 NT's. Go figure.

That's fine. I got my carthatic release from it and I've been wanting to do it for a long long time.
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spancks Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks for this post!
It really sums up the feelings I've had since 2000. I didn't realize there were so many people of like mind out there.

BTW: I'm new here and I don't know what NT means. Will someone please tell me what it stands for?
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. That you have nominated the topic for "greatest" page.
Welcome in.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
64. See post #82. NT or n/t means 'No Text' with only the subj. line. ..n/t
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
63. Welcome! n/t or NT is shorthand for No Text. If you don't have much to
comment on, say you just want to 'kick' the article, or 'kick' and 'recommend', you can write in the subject line 'Kick..n/t' or K and R..n/t' (for kick and recommended for greatest page). If you choose not to view all of the comments if the thread is long enough, you know that that post is ended, with n/t, so you don't have to click on it to read more.

Another substitute for n/t or NT is eom, or e.o.m. which means 'end of message', although eom is not as commonly used as n/t, or 'no text.'

Hope this helped! And Welcome to DU. :hi:
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
159. Woops -- redundant message. Except for:
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 12:38 AM by nicknameless
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. Recommendation #5. Look at these VIDEOS from today's historic House
debate - more like an explosion - and you will see that you speak for many, even many in the Congress. Especially see Rep. Kucinich's and Rep. Pelosi's speeches, but of course the one by Murtha is historic:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (11/19 GD): VIDEO COMPILATION- 11/18 Murtha House speech plus Pelosi, Waxman & more

When you turned your rant off at the end of your opening post, rest assured that millions of others (including me) carried it on. WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED.

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Kickin_Donkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
22. I agree.
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Alexodin Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I was at the boiling point a long time ago
Back in January I prepared a safe room to hide GLBT people and Muslims and anybody else that needed to flee the fascism. I asked my relatives to seriously consider sending those not able to fight out of the country, elderly and young mothers. I was preparing. Then Schiavo hit and W**s tumble began. I feel much better now but suspect that this bunch will not go peacefully and legally when their time comes.

I continue to employ passive resistance against them. I sense that civil unrest could develop around the 06 elections. This country is a tinder box of discontent and angst and the Repukes may want to incite violence so that they can declare martial law. I am watching for an in your face move such as a pardon or something more abhorrent. I stand with you, you do not stand alone. I have many relatives buried in Arlington. This is my country. I will defend the Constitution with my life if I must.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Hi Alexodin!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Alexodin Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. Thank you
Well met my friend.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. Great post, but a word of caution
In the effort to overcome these people, it's important to not become them. Violence won't get us where we want to go. All violence will accomplish is replacing one set of sociopaths with another set.

All governments require the voluntary cooperation of the citizens. Do not give them your cooperation and it will change.

To remove the psychopaths from power all thats needed is the enforcement of existing laws. It is the thwarting of law that has allowed these people into positions of power. And it will be the law that puts these people away, not violence.
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Wrong. Violence was used in the *first* American Revolution. (nt)
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
71. True but it was not used lightly...
If you read the Declaration of Independence, it lists the many remedies that the colonists tried in petitioning for redress of thier grievances. The need for violence came about because there were no avenues for justice. If you believe in the American dream and our way of governance, you have to have faith that the system will work. Its when times are darkest that we have to trust in the wisdom of our Founding Fathers. If you want to channel your anger into something useful and effective, start preaching the Gospel of Democracy and getting people involved in thier government. If we are to fix this mess, we need to rebuild and reinvigorate the Democratic spirit of every American. We aren't going to lie to them or try and change thier political views, we just need to get them vested in the process. The American people are not stupid nor are they sheep to be herded, 9/11 scared the shit out of a lot of people and they are simply afraid. 9/11 was a shock and awe campaign and it looks like the people are starting to realize they've been had. Don't turn thier outrage towards destroying our country, turn thier outrage towards rebuilding the country and divining a new direction and national mission. Yes, BushCo is evil but as evil as they are there is also an equal amount of good. If you want to truly beat them, help turn America into a country that practices human rights and lives democratic principles. Help America clean up this planet and and then reach out for the stars. If you truly want to beat them, take away their instruments of death and violence and offer the people a new vision. That's the only way to beat this sort of evil, by creating an overwhelming force of good. Let's be the good guys again.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. We are quickly reaching that point
war is the last option, at least open armed warfare, we have been at war for at least a decade now... don't be fooled, but we are reaching that point... and I will have to ask... are you ready?
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #74
94. Open armed warfare is not an option...
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 04:53 PM by mikelewis
Warfare is ignorant and worthless. It serves no purpose other than to destroy more human life. If these Neo-cons or whatever can take over our government then we can too. If they can use propaganda, then we can too. If they can rig elections then we can too. If they can stage a phony terrorist attack to rally support for a cause or against an enemy, then we can too. If they can defy democracy and force equality at the point of a gun, then we most certainly can too. If we do all of these things, then why not just join them and call it a day? If we are so quick to kill that which frightens us, what hope does this country have?

I have no problem with killing things if I decide there is no other course of action. Even a fly in my house gets shooed out, not killed. If Saddam had posed a eminent threat to us, I would have supported removing him from power and removing the threat. These Neo-Cons do present an eminent threat and I also support their removal from power. However, we will do it with the best tools we have and it is not guns and bullets. It's compassion and knowledge that destroys evil, not death and destruction. One only has to look to Iraq to see what that sort of thinking gets you. Is that what you want for America? We have already lost so many over this insanity, I will not support the death of any more. I will not adopt the Republican vision of America and paint it Blue.

So if you ask me if I'm ready, I say I'm getting ready but not for what you have in mind. I am getting ready to lead others into a battle to save life not end it, I am learning what it means to not only be an American but a human first and foremost. I will not stain my soul by engaging in armed conflict when I know there is a better way. I will only kill a human out of reflex and never reason. If my home is invaded, my instincts will kill the invader not my reasoning. Reasoning would allow me to capture him and punish him until he understood that that sort of behavior is unacceptable. Reasoning would direct me to take adequate steps to ensure I would not be forced to make such a decision by preventing the intrusion in the first place. Every battle is won before it begins, when you understand this, you understand that the actual battle becomes irrelevant when you are prepared for victory. We have not prepared for victory but we are beginning to and therein lies the hope for all mankind. If this country does not change its ways, the rest of the world will unite and remove us as a threat to world peace. World War 1 and World War 2 prove me correct. I would like to avoid that scenario at all costs but to completely remove this threat, we must show the world that we truly do want peace. We cannot do that through war.

P.S. (On Edit)
You carry the surname of a man who understood that the easiest way to cripple an empire is to start a civil war. But it was Gandhi and Martin who believed you destroy an empire by taking away the weapon of the enemy and rendering him impotent.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #94
108. Funny, as those who have been in combat will tell you
no, combat is not the preferable option, but when you have no other choice you are forced to do it. Now how long until you realize that peaceful options are preferable but not always possible.

Been there, done that, don't look forwards to open warfare, but I don't hide my head in the sand thinking that it won't come

By the way, Brzezinski is the Smith of Poland, how bout that?

Oh and I have been in combat, never said I relish the thought, but I am not hiding my head either... an explosion has been building and those who think that by talk they can prevent it, I have news for you... the Neo cons are ready to use force, and I mean lethal force... hope you realize that demonstrations work, but what we need is a national strike, tell me how are those plans coming along?
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #94
112. "we must show the world that we truly do want peace"
An other quote from your post:
"It's compassion and knowledge that destroys evil, not death and destruction. One only has to look to Iraq to see what that sort of thinking gets you."

I sincerely hope that the American people will find a peaceful way to get rid of their corrupt "leaders". As soon as possible...



lise

peace
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. Trust me I'd rather have this civil war come to a peaceful
comclusion, but as a student of history... I hold no illusions any more...

Why? Trends mostly, trends... they are only accelerating... but I hope for a peaceful solution, for I don't want to go there again... not a nice place to go to... and the hours are lousy and you can get killed, so it has more negatives than possitives.

(Yes gallows humor... and anybody who has been there will chuckle)
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #114
122. As anyone whose been to war knows...
War is a dirty word best spoke in secret among fools who don't know any better. I will not declare war on my own country unless there is absolutely no other recourse. If it comes to that, I will not be fighting to save it but to utterly destroy it as it will be beyond hope at that point.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #122
154. There you go
this is not a fight any of us relishes, but if it comes to that... we are ready... and those who bring it will be surprised.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. That was fucking awesome!!!!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. ummm hmmm
I, for one, have felt this way since before Regan.

FUCK THEM ALL

Damned neanderthals with no vision for the future of humanity. Narrow minded bigots who want to FORCE everyone to feel the same way they do--that is, want everyone to feel as repulsed by differences of race, religion and sexuality as they do.

Ugly Americans.

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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
28. Tell it!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. "It's just politics!"
"It don't mean nothin'!"
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
33. Yep, I will not go down as a passive sheep.
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Hailtothechimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
34. Please accept my recommendation and my thanks.
You nailed it. Now what do we do about it?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. I agree with all you have written.
I don't see them giving up power, legally or peacefully, since they came to power, illegally and not in a very peaceful manner,(disrupting the recount in FLA.) They will see us dead first. They've already killed to gain popularity and power.

Great rant and my boiling point has been reached. I find myself exploding with rage when I see a W04 or bush/cheney sticker, I go off, to the point of actually screaming out loud where the driver can see me. That is uncharacteristic of me, completely! I've had enough, too! :grr:
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Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. I hear ya'.
all I can add is "AMEN".

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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. 
Until the Victory, always!
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. Amen.
Yes. Welcome to my world. I've been there since the first stolen election.

Nice rant! :thumbsup:
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
41. Thank you!!! This needs to be e-mailed to any republican supporters
any of us know or still talk to.

I'd take it and post it on one of their internet forums, but it would just be deleted in a matter of seconds.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. Kudos for an excellent rant. (n/t)
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
43. Brilliant. I've often thought myself that without a peaceful remedy,
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 01:12 PM by stevietheman
and soon, we may just be months away from Revolution in America.

That's how sinister these people in stranglehold of our government are. They may not receive it, but they deserve a French-style Revolution, with actual heads rolling.

And we have to be clear who these reich-wing creeps get their power from: Oligarchs and big corporate CEOs from particular industries.

If we are to fight the most wicked of today's politicians, we must also fight the true source behind the wickedness, the resources that fuel and fund the wickedness. These politicians are merely superficial veneers to the truly problematic entities. If only they are removed, then those problematic entities find some sneaky way to come back at a later time. They always do.

So when we "take them down", *this time* we need to pull out the roots and soak the ground with permanent plant killer.

The true enemy is corporatism.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #43
125. stevietheman, you are spot on!
If we don't revoke corporate personhood, the beast will rise again. Corporations cannot die, they can hack off part of themselves, creating a totally new entity, they cannot be put in prison for their crimes, they can change their citizenship with the filing of a paper, & they have wealth to sustain a revolution of the people. They don't need clean water, fresh air, healthy food. With their personhood status, all of these things give them unequal protection & unequal representation under our current laws. And because they able to be involved in our political process, they now have unequal rights.

We are headed toward feudalism & the new feudal lords will be the CEOs, BODs, shareholders & corrupt politicians that do the bidding of these artificial behemoths. They are artificial beings of our creation. They should exist to serve us, not to enslave us.

"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless." --Abraham Lincoln, the last year of the Civil War


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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
44. Great rant, and I'm with you...
I have dropped friendships of over 30 years for this very reason. Even though we never discussed politics, when I started hearing racist remarks after Katrina hit, the last of those friendships was dissolved.

I have neither the patience nor the willingness to try to maintain a relationship, even though I once valued it, when I can see that the other person has a narrow minded, bigoted view of suffering people.

When I was born, FDR was president. The first president I can remember, even if not clearly, was Truman. I lived through the Nixon years, and yes, they were bad, but this new bunch, Bushco and his thugs, are 1000 times worse.

We need to stop staying silent, reward our members of Congress when they stand up to this regime, and let the others know they will not be serving another term unless they stand with us.

I agree with everything you said, and I'm like you...conservatives must stay out of my space, and respect my point of view. My family has been in this country since the 1600s, and I will no longer tolerate being considered "un American", or a traitor, simply because I won't support the piece of human garbage in the White House, and his enablers and allies.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
45. Very dangerous rhetoric you spew here
You sound like the various factions of the former Yugoslavia right before the war. You sound like the radio propagandists that led the Hutus to murder the Tutsis.

You sound, in short, like nobody I want to be associated with. You think it's you who are aggrieved, to be sure, but you're talking the language of genocide, and I repudiate it wholly. Everyone who agrees with such tripe should be ashamed.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. So instead you will appease the fascists?
That's how bad it's becoming in this country.

If we don't fight them, we and our nation are DEAD.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Oh, I say fight
But be very clear eyed about what kind of fight you want. The OP wants a genocidal fight, that's clear enough. He or she wants extermination.

Are these our options? Appeasment or extermination? I don't think so. In fact, I think that choice is nothing but another rhetoric of fascism masquerading as a choice. And you're doing it.

These are fascist rhetorics from start to finish. And it's despicable.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I don't read the rant that way.
It's not saying that we should kill our opponents in as direct a manner as you are imagining.

Rather, it's saying it's wrong to think that they contribute any value to the political fabric of the country, and they may as well be dead, to us, and to the best interests of the country. And the admittedly harsh rhetorical point that spills from that is that these sinister elements should go ahead and remove themselves from our midsts.

I cannot say I agree 100% with the prescription emanating from the rant, but I do agree 100% with the frustration behind it.

As a patriot, I share the bitterness that our republic is actively being destroyed by sinister far-reich elements.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. The problem is precisely when that frustration turns over into
Extermination rhetoric, explicit or not. The dehumanization of the other, the dream of a conflict-free polity, all these are qualities of nthe worst sort of totalitarianism and, alternately, fascism, and the OP is replaying these sentiments in full.

The OP's rant is a fascist rant, and so clearly in the tradition of fascist polemics that it can hardly be denied.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
72. No...your response is how bad its becoming in the country.
For you, its genocide or appeasement. Look at what you've become!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Indeed
Sickness unto death, and thus the death cult. A sad state of affairs.
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. You Sound Dangerously Ignorant
2000+ dead, 15,000 injured is what is really dangerous. A person speaking their mind is what America is about.

You can't shut us up as much as you'd like to. Hate is real, death is real and it's very very real that we Americans are being lied to and stolen from and led to our deaths.

Comparing the U.S. to Yugoslavia isn't real and YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. The rhetoric of fascism is the same everywhere
"The other guy is ungovernable, unreasonable, and should die."

That's how simple it is. That a poster on DU is saying what amounts to the same thing is bad enough. That so many are heaping praise on such garbage is even worse. Garbage, fascism, genocide. This rhetoric is of the essence of all three. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The OP, on the other hand, needs to reflect on what he or she is saying here very seriously.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Add Thomas Paine, Sam Addams, Patrick Henry, Thos Jefferson
to your list. Firebrands burn at different intensities depending on the time and place. Some burn in enemy hands. Some burn in ours.

Those who believe as I do that we are seeing class warfare being waged against us already feel the effects of genocidal policies on the other side. We are the Tutsis for god sakes! And we are losing because we can't convince anyone of the seriousness of the threat. That's the true shame of it.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. I'm shocked so many are agreeing with this guy.
Is everyone really so ignorant as to what he's calling for? Civil war? Disgusting.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. It's absolutely sickening
The rant is classic fascist polemics, and that so many DUers would so heartily sign on to that project truly disturbs me. This may not be the place for me. I won't be associated with killers and death squads - which is where this rant leads, inevitably - no matter what their affiliation. This is Hutu, Serb, Nazi stuff the original poster is saying, and unworthy of this board.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #66
146. I think this thread is dead by now
but let me say that while I respect the original poster for his passion, I cannot join in what I perceive to be the violent nature of the thoughts he has shared. When we say that any people are less than human, no matter how evil we think them to be, no matter how different their morals, creed, beliefs... we slide down the slope of self-aggrandizement and self-righteousness into a dark pit that that enveloped the world too many times. We become the people we despise and seek only to win, to kill, to prevail. For our side. Because we are "good" and "moral." And that is the cycle of hate.
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Dances with Cats Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #146
231. You "misunderestimated"
to quote the (p)Resident
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #146
253. I think you're right. I've been this angry before, but being angry
doesn't mean giving into hate and violence. I'm trying so hard to walk the line, to not give in to hate, to not condone violence.

If we must be angry, let's sink the anger into something constructive. Violence is always a last resort and must equate to self-defense. We certainly haven't exhausted legal and/or non-violent channels yet. To call for violence at this stage of the game is immoral.

Still, I certainly understand the frustration. :( I understand the anger. I cut off my family for six months in part because I couldn't stand one more reference to Pat Robertson, Sean Hannity, Faux News or Rush Limbaugh. There were other reasons, too. My family's just plain dysfunctional. :( In the end, I think it was a good thing to do because it helped me define boundaries, but it still hurt. And it still hurts now.

Thanks for the polarization, Mr. Uniter-Not-A-Divider. Thanks a lot.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. Well...make that three of us that see that....
and are disgusted by it.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #73
99. Number 4 here...
I think a lot of these people are simply political refugees from the Republican party who have realized what sort of evil men rule them. I believe they are just bitter and are lashing out. They can't know how far we've come in the past year and it wasn't because we beat the war drums. We are winning because every time they lied, we screamed liar and that emboldened a great many people. A year ago, I may have agreed that it was fight or flight time, but not now. The tide has turned and only the foolish and angry who do not know how far we've come can be disheartened by our progress.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #99
121. You are quite wrong about me Mike
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 06:39 PM by TheWatcher
There is nothing republican about me. I have never been a Republican, never will be. I never supported this war, or any of the policies of this administration. I was a strong voice AGAINST this war when a lot of people, even some at places like DU were FOR it.

If you want to accuse me of being a Transgendered Liberal who believes in LIHOP, go right ahead. Guilty as charged. But after five years of watching the atrocities against those abroad and at home, I have simply had enough.

I screamed liar probably at the same time you did, maybe even before. I screamed Fraud in 2000, and I still scream Fraud in 2004, even though there are many who want to shout people like me down, some of them even here at DU. Don't presume you know me. You don't. You don't know anything about me. So for those of you who say I support Genocide and Pre-Meditated Violence, I'm sorry, take your assumptions and SHOVE IT.

You are WRONG.

Instead of trying to tear someone like me down, instead focus your concern on the reality that I am so alarmed about. That the OPTIONS we have for getting rid of these people are becoming more limited and thinner by the day. That's just the reality of it Mike.

Look at the legislation they have passed. Look what they have done. Look at the playbook they have followed. They aren't going to give up peacefully.

If you think my posts calls for Genocide, that's your problem. What I said is that I have given up on those who support this regime and it's policies. They are LOST, and they are NOT coming back. All I want is for these people to stay clear of me and my family. Just stay away.

If you;re worried about Civil War, you might want to cast your worry to the other side, because it is THEY who have been perpetuating a Cold Civil War against all of us for years. They would desperately like it to run hot, and perhaps by expressing these emotions you think I am giving them what they want.

You are wrong. It is NOT they way I want things to be, but I am not going to back down from one thing. If these people keep pushing, and in the end they provide us with NO OTHER CHOICE, NO OTHER WAY OUT, I am going to fight them if I have to.

I am not going to live in the kind of world they want.

I would rather die fighting than live in the lind of slavery that has been planned for us.



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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #121
135. Might I suggest a move for you then.
The little "utopia" that you desire has never occurred short of attempts at racial and ethnic cleansing and genocide. People have always faced political crises in their lifetimes and, thank goodness, generally had the social maturity to deal with it.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. Make Me Move, Friend.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 08:06 PM by TheWatcher
And please spare me your condescending attitude about social maturity. In the end, the rant I posted last night was an expression of frustration and anger that a few, including you, have attempted to blow up into something else.

You think I am for genocide. You think I am for Murder and Violence without cause or reason. And I'm not going to let any of you tell me that to my face without challenging it.

Like I told Mike, you don't know me, and you don't know a damn thing about me. I support none of these things. But if one of these mouth-breathers attacks me or any member of my family first, you can believe that I will respond in kind. I never would have done so in the past, but I am sorry, things have changed for me, because I have simply had enough.

It might surprise you to know I am NOT a violent person. I have never lifted a finger against another human being in my life. Not once. So like I said, take your assumptions about me somewhere else.

I have no use for them, or you, for that matter.





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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #137
139. I don't believe that you can make such a long, personal post...
and claim that we don't know you. I acknowledge your frustration, and I appreciate that you spent the time to put it into words. What you see as people blowing your thoughts up into something else, might just be people trying to talk you off of the ledge. Could it be done with less condescension? I guess. But, your post is full of condescension itself, so I, at least, tend to match that tone in response.

Again, I appreciate your thoughts, but I don't agree with them.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #139
143. Fair Enough, I Don't Agree With Your Assertions About Me Either
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 09:01 PM by TheWatcher
but I'm not calling for violence against you, now am I?

If you want to talk someone off the ledge, so to speak, you should try putting your presumptions and assumptions aside and approach it from a more diplomatic perspective. The way you and a few others came at me certainly could not be mistaken for anything other than contempt.

My Post was full of rage and frustration that was released after five years of watching atrocity after atrocity, stolen election after stolen election, watching my country slowly bleed to death from the results of the actions of the most criminal, corrupt band of thugs our government, Hell our PLANET has ever seen, and NOTHING IS STOPPING THEM. No one has impeached them. No one has put them on Trial. And the last time I checked, we still have soldiers dying every day, and they are planning to EXPAND the War, not end it.

Like I told that Stupid Freeper, it's always been THEM that attacked ME. THEM that attempted violence on me. Simply because I had a DU Sticker, or a John kerry Sticker on my car. Or because I am what I am. In parking lots, on the Street. I even posted earlier this year about one of them trying to get violent with me at The POST OFFICE, where I was trying to do business, minding my own business. I've had to call The Police for assistance TWICE in the past year, simply because some mouth-breather who supports this nonsense simply couldn't handle opposition or civilized dissent.

People want to put me in the hospital over a bumper sticker, The Government and the people running it want to Steal, murder, and Pillage at will, Rush, Savage, Coulter and O'Reilly are CLEARLY guilty of inciting violence and criminal behavior through their Media outlets, but I'M the one that gets accused of Genocide. I'm the one that's crazy. Because I express a moment of anger and ultimate frustration at the horrors I see before me, and I simply am tired of taking it, and watching my fellow countrymen take it.

I make a post, releasing years of anger and frustration that so many people in this country feel, because it appears there may be NOTHING we can do to stop these people. Because every day brings some new atrocity, every day they just keep getting more blatant and more obvious.

We are in the most dangerous and perilous time in our nation's history, the administration shouts in the Media that dissent against it's policies is equivalent to aiding and abetting the enemy, every day our soldiers CONTINUE to die for NO REASON, and people like Jean Schmidt call those who want to put an end to AN ILLEGAL AND UNJUSTIFIED OCCUPATION Coward and traitors for doing so.

Five years of Murder, Corruption, Thievery, Fraud, Deception, and Criminal Behavior by a Government on a scale we have not seen since the 1930's. Five years of being threatened by this regime's supporters, our Patriotism Questioned, our FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES DYING IN A WAR THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN IN, Stolen Elections, and a Media that has not only been complicit, but has CRIMINALLY AIDED AND ABETTED THIS ADMINISTRATION EVERY. STEP. OF. THE WAY. Years of being threatened with Violence by Freepers and their ilk, simply because my beliefs differ from theirs.

And people like you want to attack ME for supporting Genocide when I won't just sit back, be passive, and TAKE IT, and express anger and frustration that ENOUGH is ENOUGH. You accuse me of calling for violence and calling for genocide, even after I make CLEAR that was not my intent. I didn't post and run, pal, I ANSWERED the challenges, and I made myself clear.

I made it clear that I was V-E-N-T-I-N-G.

And I'M the Nazi?

Please, friend, get some perspective.

Take it for what it was. A Rant and A Vent that expresses what many feel. Just because we express it does not mean we are going to start commiting Violent Acts.

But I will say I am not going to be passive and just sit back and take their crap anymore either.

And I will not back down from the assertion that if it ever comes to it, and I have no other choice, I WILL fight these people if I have to.

I won't surrender my country or my way of life to them.

OR YOURS.

It's that simple.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #135
245. amerika, love it er leave it, hippie... n/t
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 08:26 PM by greyhound1966
(edit): added :sarcasm: to make sure.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #121
147. I don't think your post calls for genocide
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 09:20 PM by alcibiades_mystery
I think your post is couched in the kind of language that leads to genocide, that makes genocide possible. Instead of shouting with caps and telling everybody that they are WRONG, perhaps you should go back and read your initial post and reflect on the way you are representing your opponents, from the plain folks who believe in the Republican platform to the most cynical power-hungry neo-con Congressperson. You hack them to pieces, rhetorically, by dehumanizing them and wishing for a conflict-free polity. It is a short leap to hacking them to pieces, actually, in the flesh and blood. It is totalitarian in its essence. Read it again carefully, and keep in mind that woman at the laundromat, or that man on the bus, or the commissioned officer, or the sixteen year old kid - keep in mind those who may believe in the other platform, truly believe it, and see what happens to them if your logic is put into practice. Hold their faces in your mind as you conduct this experiment, Make them real faces, real eyes, real flesh and blood. Do it.

You know, I've heard a lot of nonsense from the right wing about how the Balkans represent the failure of a multicultural society - usually in the course of arguing against multiculturalism in the university curriculum. But the Balkans don't represent the failure of a multicultural society. The Balkans represent the failure of monoculture, or the desire for monoculture. If the men who could look into those real faces, those real eyes, that real flesh and blood at Srebeniza could live with multiculturalism, they would never have fired a shot, never had laid a truncheon blow on a Muslim, never have kicked, punched, slapped. If they could live with the humanity of the other, in its radical difference, they would never have killed a one. Michael Douglas' character in Falling Down cannot live with difference, the radical difference of the other. He is far from a virtuous exemplar. He's a murderer at Srebeniza, Warsaw, Darfur, Kilgali, My Lai. And that is what I mean by the logic of genocide in your posts.

Now, I would by no means argue that one should lie down and take a beating. I'm against that, more than I'm willing to say here. But the option is rarely lie down or kill. Rarely. Sometimes, but rarely. And this is dangerous ground. And even when it comes to that, one can approach it without the fierce hatred you propose. One must enter even such circumstances with openness, even with love. You may have to kill that which seeks to kill your own difference, but you shouldn't kill difference itself in the process. And that, too, is what I mean by the logic of genocide in your posts.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
97. I don't read it that way, to me, he's saying no more unilateral civility
no more false comity, no more accomodating them and employing of everyday diplomacy. I have reached this general feeling long ago. Now some here may really know, if they agree, a little of what it feels like to be a minority in this country. You face people who are deluded, blind to the heinous, perverse reality and whose very worldview means death, destruction and deprivation for most of the rest of the world, all wrapped up in a thin tissue of freedom and opportunity and most alluring of all to these people, "VICTORY!". And failure to come to recognize what we are facing is to me what is really disgusting.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #97
141. That, in a nutshell is EXACTLY what I was expressing.
Thank You, confludemocrat. You nailed everything in a much smaller package. :)

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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #141
181. self delete
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 01:18 PM by confludemocrat
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #141
182. well, the knee-jerkitude and handwringing in this sub-thread speaks vols
about who you wouldn't want to share a foxhole with, figuratively speaking, and I see some familiar faint-heartedness expressed, but paradoxically in a flaming way that is never expressed I must presume by these same people when it really counts--against true adversaries. These people would want you to share a tea with criminals in the parlour, while their cohorts are out in the street jacking your car. I feel sorry for them.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. Nonsense
Simply replaying the sick logic. Either you're sipping tea or fighting. Sure.

I wouldn't want to share a foxhole with the reactionary death squad types, either. Nor would I go door to door with them, looking for people to denounce.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #185
201. Geezus, do you take EVERYTHING literally?
and what's this silliness about death squads? Anyway, while you are making your moral calculations and nannying about, "correcting" heartfelt moral outrage and instilling so-called "moderation" when a tough-minded front is called for, events are already passing you by. Just listen to the rhetoric used in the House on Friday? Read what Kerry says about Murtha in a thread here.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
148. Dangerous rhetoric? Yup... 'bout fuckin' time too. n/t
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #148
150. Easy enough to say, I suppose
When the bodies lay opened up before you, however, the lust for such danger somewhat subsides.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
47. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
53. Absolutely GREAT rant!
I agree with you 100% in spirit, 99% in content. (It was actually John Connor's future father, Kyle Reese (Michael Biehn) who did the rant in "Terminator". Other than that, perfect! "Kill yourself. Seriously." Indeed. In-freakin-deed.

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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
54. Holy motherfucker on a stickshift
That was a LOVELY rant. And I fully agree.

I don't often share this, but my SINGLEMOST motivation for being a minarchist/small-l libertarian is to sever myself from these people. Make them dead to me. No fellow citizen of mine, no concern of mine. My right of freedom to associate should make these right-wing ideaologues and their MANIAC, IGNORANT, DELUSIONAL supporters a part of some distant universe that I hardly remember.
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Lindsay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
55. Powerful, majestic rant.
Thank you.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
57. This is war?
Do you have any conception of what another civil war in the US would be like? The hundreds of thousands of mangled, unidentifiable dead? Bullets flying, people starving by the thousands, disease rampant? And no, I don't think it's happening to that magnitude here in the US right now. What we're experiencing is bad, but nothing like a civil war. Nothing.

I cannot advocate for that. And unless you're truly calling for some sort of armed revolution, I'd avoid the military metaphors, ranting or not.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Please do review how countries arrive at hot civil
wars... you will see many parallels, starting in '96
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. I am afraid we've been fighting this war (sans weapons) for some time
And I agree, civil war sounds horrifying.

So what do we call this schism between us? The Great Divide?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. I have Republican neighbors and coworkers
And it was rants like this that led Bosnians of different religions (their own "Great Divide") to murder each other's neighbors and coworkers in the streets, and to shell each other's children. This sort of rhetoric has no future but calamity, death, atrocity, mass graves, bloodshed. Such rants always implicitly call for precisely that, whatever they may say explicitly.

We must reject such sentiments on their face. The original poster should be shamed for his or her disgusting rant, not widely praised. Never forget - as a slogan of holocaust remembrance doesn't just mean never forget the fact of the Holocausyt. It also means never forget the styles of human engagement that made the Holocaust possible. Dehumanization, the dream of a conflict-free polity, these are the styles of engagement that we're meant to oppose when we remember the Holocaust, yet these are precisely the styles of engagement of the original poster. It is the most disturbing fascist tripe I've ever seen on these boards. Sickening and scary that so many would sign on to that.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Given how civil wars start and breed
that is what you are readying... congrats, in words how far and hard those who wish a new feudal state have been pushing

It is not fascist to state that there is a class war going on this country... for there is one

And it is not fascist to recognize, FINALLY, that we are in the middle of a civil war... and the enemy, yes they see you as a weak kneaded enemy, has fully dehumanized you.

This is not fascism, what you read, but class consciousness and class struggle... sad that some miss this for what it is. And for the record, you have missed the many calls for your death, haven't you? the other side engages in this talk and indeed trains among the most radical among them, for this goal constantly.

There is this thing about birds who hide their heads in the sand... but this country is as divided as it has been, at least in my view, since the heady summer of 1860, and this has been done on purpose.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. So your solution is to jump headily into the slaughter?
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 03:30 PM by alcibiades_mystery
This is totalitarian, dystopian rhetoric at its most despicable - dream of the total state, the end of conflict...which of course can only be reached through the bloodiest, most savage of conflicts.

And don't presume to lecture me about class struggle and class consciousness. I'll quote you chapter and verse from the fucking Grundrisse, and draw you pictures of praxis to go with it. The original poster's nonsense isn't class consciousness. It's twisted bourgeois pragmatics raised to the level of homicidal fantasy.

I have no doubt that the b"other side" has its concomitant fantasies of a total state, and its parallel effusions of extermination fantasies. That so many DUers would take that as a sign to engage in the same wretched "ethics" is not a virtue, or some glorified defense posture, but a spiralling retreat into savagery that only serves to exacerbate the sickness. The better angels of our nature, I should think, should be the mantra here, and it is only the worst demons of of our hearts that would see that as weakness, indifference, retreat, surrender, or escapism. The worst fucking demons.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. The other side is dreaming of a civil war, so they can
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 03:37 PM by nadinbrzezinski
impose martial law and get rid of the bill of rights and all of that. What you just read is precisely that... it is coming, the summer of 1860, the heady days before the Tutsies, the scary days before the Serbs went after the Kosovars. It is coming, and if you think that you can avoid it by just thinking if you speak against it, you are wrong

Moreover, that you read is class consciousness. Not the nice tight theoretical arguments, but the view from the trenches... or have you read much primary sources of any revolution? That is exactly what this reads like... congrats, it is never tidy.

By the way, we ALREADY ARE in the midst of a civil war... that is the hugh newsflash to you. The shooting has not started, but we are in the midst of one...

Wake up and smell the powder, for that is what is just missing here.

Or have you missed the statements from many of their talking heads?

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. You are making it happen
Probably because you think you desire it. But you couldn't handle it when it comes, of that I'm fairly convinced, simply from your cavalier exhortations of this war you're fantasizing.

I need no lessons on the "front lines" or the "trenches," and certainly not from you - of that I can assure you.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Been to war? I have been there done that
don't relish the thought, nor do I fantasize about it... in that you are wrong. But I am not going to hide my head in that sand and think that it is not gonna happen if I wish trends just go poof. That is magical thinking. I'd prefer to live in the reality based community.

The difference between you and me is... I have been in combat, and I recognize that this is not a coflict I desire, but it is being brought to me... and when it comes... I will defend the Constituion. DO I hope we avoid the hot phase of this war? Sure I do, I don't want to do that again... but I am not blind... the rage you are seing emerge is the kind of murderous rage that precedes any social explosion, and right now you are like the kid at the dike trying to stop it.

Me, I hope we avoid this civil war going hot, but the war is here... been here for all to see since 1996, it just took me five years to realize it... and it is just escalating... by the way, it is NOT our side who is escalating it... and I am willing to bet the Fort Sumpter moment will not come from our side... but it may be untoppable at this point.

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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #79
161. I can't ignore the obvious signs, either. (eom)
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #78
132. As a side note, you have an interesting name
Is the "Alcibiades" in your name a reference to the Athenian in Socrates time. Or is "alcibiades_mystery" a reference to Francis Bacon or rather Shakespeare's "Silenus Alcibiades sive Proteus", if Shakespeare was the author, thus the mystery part of your name.

Your arguments against violence are on the money I think.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Very apt analogy. I hope people listen. n/t
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
152. You tell THEM to stop their advocation of killing liberals....
...at some point in time, bullies have to be reined-in and gotten under control.

IMHO, the NeoCons and all of their rightwing fellow travelers been allowed to operate in their hate-filled manner for FAR too long.

Additionally, just in case you haven't noticed, fascism is our current form of government, and has been since December 2000. Advocating resistence to fascism, sometimes by any means possible, hardly fits your overly broad definition of the term "fascist".

It is IMHO, "sickening and scary that so many would sign on to" continuing to knuckle-under to the rightwingers that would like nothing better than to eradicate the word "liberal" from the English language.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #152
169. Lots of shit-talking
And I don't think many here would actually be able to stomach where this whole thing is headed if positions like the OP's (and the same brand of nut on the other side) rule the day. You don't know from fascism, that's clear enough.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #169
171. No, I pretty much clarified my position
Your lame assertions about my being a supporter of Genocide have pretty much fallen on deaf ears, and I am very glad to see that.

The only person who is really talking shit is you.

You have accused me of supporting pre-meditated violence without provocation. That I support Genocide. That I'm some kind of nut who is ready to climb a Bell Tower and start shooting people. After all the other posts I made in this thread, you're still sticking to your position that I'm some sort of disturbed psycho.

Let me tell you something friend, I'm not, and I don't support any of those things. I have never committed a violent against against another human being in my life. I doubt that you could find ANYONE at DU that supports supports unprovoked violence.


But you better believe if anyone comes after me or a member of my family, I have reached the point in my life I am willing to do something about it if necessary.

And as far as the slanderous things you accused me of, I'll happily tell you you're FULL OF IT.

You're welcome to disagree with what I wrote, but I WON'T let you paint me as something I am not unchallenged. I'm sorry if your little world is being scarred by people reaching their boiling point and venting their anger at what this administration has done.

DEAL WITH IT. Try getting come thicker skin.

Take your ignorant assertions about my character and what I believe in somehwere else.

Agree to disagree.

Use the ignore button.

I certainly did where you're concerned.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #171
173. I'll reiterate my position from another post
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 09:26 AM by alcibiades_mystery
I think your post is couched in the kind of language that leads to genocide, that makes genocide possible. Instead of shouting with caps and telling everybody that they are WRONG, perhaps you should go back and read your initial post and reflect on the way you are representing your opponents, from the plain folks who believe in the Republican platform to the most cynical power-hungry neo-con Congressperson. You hack them to pieces, rhetorically, by dehumanizing them and wishing for a conflict-free polity. It is a short leap to hacking them to pieces, actually, in the flesh and blood. It is totalitarian in its essence. Read it again carefully, and keep in mind that woman at the laundromat, or that man on the bus, or the commissioned officer, or the sixteen year old kid - keep in mind those who may believe in the other platform, truly believe it, and see what happens to them if your logic is put into practice. Hold their faces in your mind as you conduct this experiment, Make them real faces, real eyes, real flesh and blood. Do it.

You know, I've heard a lot of nonsense from the right wing about how the Balkans represent the failure of a multicultural society - usually in the course of arguing against multiculturalism in the university curriculum. But the Balkans don't represent the failure of a multicultural society. The Balkans represent the failure of monoculture, or the desire for monoculture. If the men who could look into those real faces, those real eyes, that real flesh and blood at Srebeniza could live with multiculturalism, they would never have fired a shot, never had laid a truncheon blow on a Muslim, never have kicked, punched, slapped. If they could live with the humanity of the other, in its radical difference, they would never have killed a one. Michael Douglas' character in Falling Down cannot live with difference, the radical difference of the other. He is far from a virtuous exemplar. He's a murderer at Srebeniza, Warsaw, Darfur, Kilgali, My Lai. And that is what I mean by the logic of genocide in your posts.

Now, I would by no means argue that one should lie down and take a beating. I'm against that, more than I'm willing to say here. But the option is rarely lie down or kill. Rarely. Sometimes, but rarely. And this is dangerous ground. And even when it comes to that, one can approach it without the fierce hatred you propose. One must enter even such circumstances with openness, even with love. You may have to kill that which seeks to kill your own difference, but you shouldn't kill difference itself in the process. And that, too, is what I mean by the logic of genocide in your posts.

This has nothing to do with you, or me, or thick skin, or the quality of your character, or any other such diversions you may lend to the discussion. This has to do with the history and quality of the rhetoric you're deploying - which you are both conscious of and taken up by, as the surfer is both at the mercy of and responsible to the wave. And you do have to answer for it. As to whether other people will listen to me, I am not primarily concernbed with that. I will put my position on your rhetoric out there, if only because its spiralling insanity demands a counterweight - some tether to the world of people, of faces, of eyes, of flesh and blood that would keep us from the abyss. You say nobody is listening. I suspect otherwise, but I'll let you portray the matter as you please - it is of little concern to me. Now, as for your final line, it's shocking to me that so much bluster could be followed by the ignore function. I have never hit ignore on anyone, because I find such postures cowardly in the extreme. I meet any argument lodged against me anywhere, and stop up my ears never. If that's how you roll, it's a surprise how blustery and blathery you've been in this thread about - ahem - standing up. But I suppose it is your option. Cheers.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #173
176. It's fascinating the time and effort you seem to be putting in
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 11:19 AM by TheWatcher
Analyzing this post.

And I did initially put you on Ignore, but I decided against it, because I have never put anyone on Ignore before, and I really don't want to do that, even for a person who seems to think I'm some sort of Nazi.

In response to this, all I can say is, Interesting essay, but you are still off the mark. It was a rant alcibiades_mystery, it's really that simple. I've read everything you had to say here, and I think you are attempting to read way too much into what I wrote. You have interesting ponints, but as far as all the things you accused me of, you're still full of shit.

Many in this country have reached apoint like I did last night when I wrote that. We see what is going on around us. For five years, many of us have watched the complete and utter atrocity that has been this abominable administration. We have seen and have been witness to things that are beyond our worst nightmares. And we are FED UP.

Many are reaching this "Boiling Point" because they don't see any way out. They see the atrocities continue day after day, the slow death of this country, day after day, and they see NOTHING being done about it.

No one has impeached these people. No one has brought them to trial for their crimes. And they are committing new crimes every day. And it is becoming so blatant and obvious.

Bush, The Republicans, and those who are running this country are destroying everything around them.

They have stolen two elections, They have lied us into a War, in which we Invaded a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY that was never a threat to us. 2000+ Soldiers have DIED, and 100,000 Innocent Iraqi's have died. They have stolen everything that is not nailed down, and they have destroyed our economy. I lost one of my best Friends to this filthy, unjust, illegal occupation.

And the bottom line is, if they decide to take this all the way, I haven't seen any evidence that we could stop them. We haven't crossed that Rubicon yet, so the landscape is still unknown, but after all they have gotten away with, with virtually nothing stopping them, forgive if some of us are nervous that they ARE crazy enough to try the unthinkable, and forgive if we are fearful they JUST might be able to pull it off.

Last night, after Jean Schmidt's remarks, and Reading the Bill that the House Passed in the middle of the night, something in me just snapped. And I vented about it. I had a moment of extreme anger that I expressed. But that's what it was. A Rant. A release of anger in the form of a post.

And no, I am not sorry I wrote it. Looking back on it today, I do regret using the generalization of "Republicans In General." Because not all Republicans fall into the category of person which my ire was directed, mainly those who continue to blindly support what is going on, and continue to support the administration and it's policies no matter what. The Freepers don't get a pass. Not one bit.

Because the truth is I AM tired of trying to reason with people like that, and trying to be civil, trying to take the high road.

Because they are Lost, and they are not coming back anytime soon, if ever. They have become accessories to these crimes committed by Bus Inc., because they support it, and they continue to support it no matter what. My anger with these people has reached a point where I literally can no longer stand to be around them. I have given up on these people, because they refuse to see ANYTHING.

When confronted with facts, reality, no matter what, they will support this nonsense to the end. I'm sorry, I consider them my enemy. if you have a problem with that, so be it. I could care less what you think.

Did I go over the top with some of the things I said. Yes I did. but when you go on a rant, and you vent, things like that do tend to occur. But it doesn't mean you are going to start randomly assaulting people. It doesn't mean you condone or intend to commit Genocide.

When I wrote that last night, I had reached a moment of anger and disgust I have never experienced before in my life. Many of us have been having Howard Beal moments like that lately. Mike Malloy does it every other night on his Radio Program, and some of his rants are FAR worse than what I said last night. Maybe you should call him up and accuse him of supporting Genocide too.

In the end, I have simply reached the point where I want nothing to do with people that support this administration and it's policies. nothing at all. It's not like they have given us much of a choice.

They don't want common ground. They don't want reasonable solutions, or open-mindeness. They don't want to reach out or compromise. What they want is very similar to the very things YOU accuse ME of. That's the irony here. For years and years, we sit back and take all their spew, and we get beaten to death by the people they support who now run this country, but when some of us get pissed off and start venting about it, all of sudden WE'RE the Nazis.

And I will reiterate what I said in my last post to you. I have NEVER committed a violent act against another human being in my life. And I don't intend to go out today, or any day in the future and start splitting heads.

But after living through the past few years, and personally being attacked, and nearly assaulted by some of these mouth=breathers who "Stand By Their President", I have had enough. I am not going to lie down and take it if someone tries to harm me.

And yes, if it ever came down to the unthinkable, and I was forced to fight the opposition AND the people who blindly supported them, because they were coming for those who dissent against them and happen to disagree, if we reach that point, YES, I WILL STAND UP AND FIGHT.

You can sit back and opine about the Balkans all you want.

There are alot of us in this country right now who are angry and fed up, because we can see that there is a Crisis developing that could very well destroy this country, and take everything we care about and believe in with it. Our adversaries have demonstrated that Human Life means nothing to them. Nothing at all but their agenda means anything to them. And if history has taught us anything, it's that usually people like this do not go quietly, and they do not go legally and peacefully.

There is a real danger here that they won't this time either.


There is a lot of anger, fear, and frustration, and my rant last night expressed a part of it. Was it over the top? Yes. Was it extreme? Yes.

Does it mean I support unprovoked violence or Genocide? Does it mean I am a disturbed, violent person.

No, it doesn't.

You seem to think it does. That's your opinion. Much like assholes everyone has one. You are welcome to yours.

You have spent this entire thread attacking me and slandering my character. You have made quite clear that I am not someone you wish to associate with. you have insulted me and accused me of supporting extremes I do not believe in and would NEVER engage in.

And now you want to write an essay and be philosophical.

Whatever.

It was a rant. Get Over It.

If there is any lesson to be learned, it's perhaps that we should take the anger we are all feeling and focus it into a positive, practical direction, and not let it consume us.

At the same time, we need to understand where we are, what is going on, the danger we are in, and have our powder dry.

Just In Case.

I'm not putting you on Ignore, but I'm not responding to you further, because quite frankly, I have no interest in associating with you either.

Feel free to wax philosophical with yourself. Knock yourself out.

After all, it's still a Free Country.

Isn't it?
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #176
177. "It was a rant"....
does that mean that I'm supposed to never believe anything you write again? Can you tell us next time when you are "ranting" and when you are "serious"?

Are you "ranting" now?

Conclusion: I tend to believe what people write first..before they have been either congratulated and/or criticised for it. After they get criticised, they tend to backtrack on how they truly felt.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #176
178. You misconstrue again and again
It is the logic of genocide that you are embracing. That's clear, and you have no response to it. There is no "reading too much into" it about it. I've laid out my criteria for the logic of genocide elsewhere and you can take them or leave them, find them displayed in your original posting or not. It's not about interpretation. It's about whether you dehumanize the other, and whether you desire a political monoculture (your own, of course). If these two conditions appear (and they do), then you are performing the logic of genocide. Whether you "support" genocide makes absolutely NO difference. This logic, this way of thinking, this way of engaging other human beings is what makes genocide possible long before a drop of blood is spilled.

As for essays, waxing philosophical, and your other charges, I'll only say that I respond - that I am obliged to respond, and that one must reflect on what one says and what one does. If you feel like you will no longer respond, that's your prerogative - it is, quite literally, ir-responsible, but you do what you have to. It's the coward's way out, as far as I'm concerned.

You clearly take quite a bit of time on your essays as well - mine only take a more standard paragraph form. But perhaps this engagement has been good for both of us.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #178
184. You read what you want
this is scary sin't it, to see pure unadulterated rage fully open all sores and all that. this is not theory son... this is reality...

So as you continue to get philosopbical and continue to tell exactly what he meant with his piece, becuase obviously you know better, you are the philosopher after all... tell me what is exactly scaring you here? Is the call for genocide you read into it something you have thought about? Is that it?

Yes Lucy is on duty, two cents please.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #184
186. Where are you getting the philosophy jazz?
That's The Watchers explanation, not mine. So, if I do not explain myself, I am silent, whereas if I eplain my reasoning, I'm merely engaging in some abstract theorizing (which can easily enough be shit upon, as I see - no small measure of anti-intellectualism there, thouhgh I claim to be neither an intellectual nor a philosopher). On these boards its mostly theory - or at least discourse. You don't plan to stop by my home for fisticuffs, yes? (Although I'd be more than happy to welcome you, and, if you were to persist, more than happy to deal with you). We have words and ideas, and that is the battleground. Your attempt to paint me as living in the land of "theory" while you inhabit "reality" is predictable enough, I guess, but has no more force for all that. I submit that the question of how we engage with others - and especially with those who are irreconcilably different - is fully material, everyday in its frequency, consequential as all hell, yes, even to the most severe consequences. Philosophy? Maybe. But philanthropy, too. I've outlined my criteria for calling this a logic of genocide ("call for genocide" was ill-phrased in my earlier posts; I've said explicitly since that it is not a call for genocide, nor would it matter if The Watcher implicitly supported genocide: the dehumanization of the radically different and the desire for a conflict-free polity is enough to place the post within the traditions of genocide and fascism).

I have no fear of open sores and rage. Another pathetic gambit to paint me as somehow prissy because I don't assent to a logic of destruction. Indeed we must show "reality" in all its sickness, including the real logic of fascism and genocide that resides in TheWatchers rhetoric.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #186
187. All over the place
I see it all over... and by the way yes there are consequences, and in this case you are blaming the victim. I have heard people like you... but but, if you do this it will lead to him hitting you again. Don't file charges, he will hit you again, he will learn....

Yes this is crass, but I am comparing you to an abused wife... you want to lay down and say nothing and maybe the the big bad bugaboo will go away... then they come and hit you again...

By the way yuo are late to the party... or you missed how the other side has dehumanized YOU?

I have been told in no uncertain terms by many a Republican (and no not all just some) that I can and will burn in hell and I should be lined against a wall and shot. So you want me to just seat down and take it? Oh please, please no, don't hit me again, I will behave from now on!

You think that just taking it will do it... you are missing it, by a wide margin and yes the abused wife syndrome applies to you. Heard your type over the years... and I even declared some wifes that followed your advised, and after doing such called the Coroner.

By the way as a historian and a child of the holocaust I will tell you this right now... it is exactly your thinkng from the elders at many of the ghettoes that led to no resistance. So finally when things blew up at Warsaw the elders were still pleading the kids not to do it, becuase they were going to get killed. Well pal I'd rather die a free person, than on my knees, and it is the likes of you who are in many ways on the way of fightng back EFFECTIVELY.... and no war is not alwys about killing and be killed (though it may very well come to that and this is not a war I am looking forwarsd to)... war at times invovles pushing back VERBALLY before it comes down to it. Why do you think some of us are going Sure Mr O'Reilly add me to your hate list... sure NRA I want to be on it, and please I want a place of honor at the top... what you think that is not war? Politis is a form of war. The Athenians knew it was war, the Romans knew it was war, our founding fathers knew it was war... somehow you have forgotten that.

now get off your high horse, we are tired of your pussy footing and calling people what they are not...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #187
188. Your attempts to portray me as an abused wife are not crass
They are piddling, and pathetic.

I've said time and again that I have no intention of, nor would I suggest tht anyone, lay down for anything. The question is how you approach fighting back without tipping over into the abyss of genocide and murder. For the record, from post 153:


Now, I would by no means argue that one should lie down and take a beating. I'm against that, more than I'm willing to say here. But the option is rarely lie down or kill. Rarely. Sometimes, but rarely. And this is dangerous ground. And even when it comes to that, one can approach it without the fierce hatred you propose. One must enter even such circumstances with openness, even with love. You may have to kill that which seeks to kill your own difference, but you shouldn't kill difference itself in the process. And that, too, is what I mean by the logic of genocide in your posts.


Si nce my response to your nonsense preceded them, I see no need to elborate. Any carful reader of this thread would see through your unethical misrepresentation, in any case.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #188
189. Like you have been doing throught by telling the OP
He is a NAZI in so many words?

And yes I do compare you to an abused wife, asking all of us to just stand back and continue to take it... we will not, and you can give but yuo cannot receive? This is a classic, by the way.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #189
190. You refuse to read these posts honestly
Or you are so blinded by ideology that you believe you are reading them honestly. There's little that can be done there. I'll say again that it is not the OP I am so much concerned about as the quality and history of the OPs approach to these issues - the quality and history of the rhetoric. And I'll say again that I am not telling anyone to lie down for anything. Until you can address these two point honestly, there's little more we can discuss. Needless to say, I will respond as long as you have something to say. But to continually misrepresent my point is not really valuable to you or me.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #190
191. No I am not blinded
but yuo are on a crusade... I have no idea what your reason for it is, but you are on one.... now you claim I am blidned by ideology, so be it... I am... not blinded to the reality that has become of the country, a tinder box ready to explode into actual open warfare... a country that has already exploded into this warfare sans bullets. you are blind... I have no idea why, but that is why you remind me of many an abused wife.

As they say, life experience colors our views... and my view of you is that of somebody discusing the high points of life and philosophy over coffee, but who has never gotten his hands dirty. That is the impresion you give, and if the revolution should happen, not in my back yard. Oh and for the record we have revolutions in this country every so often, and few of them have been violent... though all of them have seen the loss of life.

When faced with the crass reality that things are happening and spinng out of control yuo rush to the dike to try to put your finger in the leak... good luck... more leaks are springing all the time.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. My hands have been plenty dirty on plenty of occasions
And that is the reason I decry the OP's rhetoric.

I am well familiar with the history of revolutions in this country and others. I shouldn't have to reiterate that my beef is NOT with violent responses tout court, but with the style of engagement that accompanies such violence in the rhetoric of the OP. Your only weapons seem to be misdirection and misrepresentation. I suppose I will keep combating those, if you never do want to address my actual points, but it is an increasingly fruitless effort. You seem devoid of argument.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #192
193. RLOL
this is funny... your whole point is that the OP is a Nazi, he told you in no uncerrain terms NO, you are readying what you want to read... yet you kept attacking him. Why? You desire to read death squads in what the OP wrote. You chose to read genocide in what the OP wrote... you CHOSE... and now you accuse me of misinterpreting your posts? Sorry... does not fly Alcibiades...

And the impression you give is of soembody who has never gotten his hands dirty. Ever... so what can I say? You also accused me of pushing and desiring that war... yet you accuse me of misunderstanding and readying what I want? reality is you do this, and when people tell you NO, you take refuge in fancy language... will not fly.

Yuo may use fancy language, and decry the OP for going on a rant... well so sorry, you will continue to hear them, and they will increase. I have heard talk in the recent past at places like bookstores that I have never before heard in my life. I have read the langauge, but not heard it spoken. So go ahead, run to the dyke... the water is sipping and may become a flood.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #193
196. I use the language that is appropriate
I seek precision, where you seek misdirection and slander.

I could care less what the OP's intentions were, and I haven't been arguing about his or her intentions. I have been talking about the rhetoric and the styles of engagement it authorizes. I have been clear in my criteria for calling these fascist rhetorics (and not calling the OP a fascist). These are different claims, and you appear to be pretending not to understand that here in order to score some points. The OP can say NO all he or she wants; it doesn't change the fact that he or she is engaging in rhetorical forms that dehumanize and desire a conflict-free (or totalitarian) politics.

You can dispute that point, but it is dishonest in the extreme to impute other claims to me. You can argue that the OP doesn't use these forms of engagement, or that these forms of engagement aren't inherently fascist. Those would be good arguments. Instead you hide behind two completely irrelevant points: 1) that I argue against self-defense (false), and 2) that I accuse the OP of BEING a Nazi (also false, though some of my earlier posts were closer to that, and I have explicitly drawn back from that position).

There is also the third strategy, the most dishonest - that I am some priss theorist who has no connection to the concrete action of resistance. This has now descended into the appearance of my language, and the relative cleanliness of my hands - all code for the same sneering contempt for ideas, the hallmark of one who refuses to engage, only furthering your disgraceful posturing. You don't know jack shit about me, but that's the underlying slander that you think will best serve your case.

In none of these do you "choose" to address my points directly. One example from your post should suffice. I said "My hands have been plenty dirty on plenty of occasions, and that is the reason I decry the OP's rhetoric." In your dishonest rebuttal, this clear statement against the form of argument used by the OP turns into a statement against the OP's right to make any argument at all, or some other such incoherent misrepresentation: "Yuo may use fancy language, and decry the OP for going on a rant."

I did nno such thing. You can address my points or not. It appears that you'll opt for "not."
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #196
202. I have adressed them
he has adressed them, the fact that you cannot see that is not anybody fault's but yours.

Have a good day, or not, I frankly don't care. For people like you are the kind who told the resistance, DON'T the Germans are incapable of doing what the rumors say they are doing.

You are the problem, not the ones who have reached their boiling point.

And yes I stand by what I said, you remind me of an abused wife... please don't hit me, I promise to behave...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #202
203. What weakness
What laughable weakness. You have not addressed word one. You have imagined an adversary, easily vanquishable, and you've met quite another. Totally other. You don't care because you cannot go on - becvause you cannot argue where you do not have an argument.

I will be on the front line when the time comes. I will not go to the front lines in death squad formation. That will be you, with your utter lack of ethical comportment (because ethics is mere "philosophy," and "fancy language" completely divorced from "reality" and "clean hands" and whatnot.

Do not dare to presume that you can tell me about resistance. What a foolish response, after all this. What a foolish response.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #203
204. RLOL
now you truly have me in stitches... have you been there? You have not... for you all of this is theory. It shows in the way you talk, it shows in your contempt for others.

Now I will presume to ask what have you done so far to oppose the regime? How far have you stuck your neck out and quite possibly your livelihood. I will ask also , have you ever disobeyed an illegal (and quite possibly unethical order) in time of war? Do you know what that can lead to when you do that? I have... fully in the knowledge of what may have happened... so don't presume to speak to me about ethics... I have stuck my neck out more than once where the word meets the ground... and where questioning can lead to very serious and real consequences. You have no idea who or what I have done, yet you still presume...

You see you talk of theory, but some of us have walked the walk, have talked the talk and know what we are talking about. See here you go back into your language of death squad formations, which is what you fear, that is what your nightmares are made off, for what reason I have no clue, but they are forming or indeed have formed, but not here, not on this site... but they have and they are ready to strike... and the language is clear for all who care to listen, Liberals are insane, and liberals are traitors, it is just the begining..... yet you accuse those who are pointing this out of being nazis... it truly boggles the mind.

I have spoken to survivors of death squads that once roamed the country side of a nation not too far away from here, you actually presume to know... but I know what that is... in the flesh, in the testimony of war crime evidence, for a trial that has yet to occur... yet the files were dutifully taken and the evidence was dutifully recorded. For me none of this is theory. For you... well when cornered you go back into this idiotic argument that anybody who agrees with the OP (regarding a boiling point) is a Nazi... it is you who is doing this, not us. It is a thing of beauty as you use the language, a language you have no practical knowledge about.

Oh and yes I have already taken actions in the current debacle that have meant if we loose, I will be dragged away in the dead of night...assuming I don't have time to defend myself, even if that means death. Oh , and people like you will continue to argue whether there are desaparecidos in this country. So again, I will state once again you may talk the talk, but inside you are not that different from the abused wife.

Oh and if you should ask, those victims are spread all over Eastern and Western Europe and I do not presume to ask where for that is a special knowledge I am not supposed to know... but they were the victims of the death squads Mr Negroponte set up in Central America... the same kind he would love to set in this united states... after all he has practice.

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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #171
175. Delete
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 09:49 AM by TheWatcher


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
232. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #232
234. My god the worst decision from an activist court
was on Dcember 12, 2000 and you think that was not an activist decision? We are in this fix because of that decision. Care to read Bush V Gore son? You should, for it was never suposed to become precedent. Care to explain to the class why?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #234
260. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
La Coliniere Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
58. Good One! n/t
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BJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
70. For perspective--
read Cicero and I think you'll find that your passionate feelings and legitmate concerns about the direction of society and weak-kneed political leadership have been felt since time immemorial.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
80. Very good rant.
And that's all what this was folks, a rant. It's good to rant every now and then. The way the republicans and their kool-aid drinkers have behaved lately draws out rants like these.

Chill.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
81. It isn't just Incompetence. It IS an Absolutely COLD Competence disguised
as Incompetence in the figure of bumbling *Sneak.

I am humbled before the depth of this Evil. And I'm scared.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
82. I believe that some of you people on here need to open up your eyes..
there is a large silent majority of people in America who are at their breaking point. Some people live in their own little world and they don't realize the effects of what W dumbass and his crew have done. Do you realize you have a large majority of homeless veterans and people in general? Those economic numbers are a bunch of bull. Some people have lost there jobs, homes and family members and to top it off they have just did budget cuts that effect an overwhelming majority of the poor and middle class.

Some of these people feel as though they have nothing to lose. I heard conservatives last week spouting off about how what happened in Paris couldn't happen here. I say people you better wake up and stop just thinking about the people in your own neighborhoods, towns and villages. At the rate the conservatives are going they may start a war over here. This is a generation of people who are use to having everything and have never had to do without.There is a very large majority who are at the boiling point.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. If you don't mind me asking....
what is your age? And, I'm not asking that in an insulting manner.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Are you asking butterfly?
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Yes.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. I guess s/he doesn't want you to know it's age.
:)
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. That's their perogative...
I asked politely to gain perspective into their viewpoint, but they have the right not to answer. That's cool.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. I know that's why you asked.
:)
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:12 PM
Original message
Since I think I really shouldn't matter..
I'll put it like this early thirties to mid forties does that help? Whatever my age I see and hear what is going on in this country osen't look good for any of us.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #93
102. Since I think I really shouldn't matter..
I'll put it like this early thirties to mid forties does that help? Whatever my age I see and hear what is going on in this country osen't look good for any of us.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. We all filter current events through personal experiences....
that is human nature. I'm sorry if you thought gaining perspective and context equated to lowering the boom on you.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #105
111. I believe you look at the world differently..
when you come into contact with a wide variety of people. A lot of repugs never come into contact with other races unless they are on vacation, or some other business contact. Talking to other people or visiting nursing homes, or shelters and not just at holiday times helps to keep an open mind.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #90
100. why?
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
83. Oh one more thing ...
I forgot to add that there are thousands of people who are displaced and misplaced from all of the Hurricanes, the people that W dumbass lied to and forgot about do you think that they will live on the street and not try to provided for their families. Would you?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Oh trust me we are reachng fast that point
I agree with you, some are now engaged in magical thinking
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Some think they are living on fantasy island or
that they will click there shoes together like Dorothy on the wizard of oz and everthing is going to be alright.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Yeah, they cannot see the ugly reality
it is no longer theory, and I faer for this coutry, for it will get very uggly before it gets better
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
89. I agree, enoug his enough! If we continue to ignore who is in power
in this country and continue to allow them to smear, malign nad threaten our very existance....

Don't allow the other side to once again decide the rules of the game they themselves started...

They have been cornered and they know it, they have nothing left, their lying smearing tactics do not have the impact it once had..

Now comes their ace card, play the victim and attempt to install pity like the freeper who came onto this board calling the op out..

don't fall for it again, they have proven themselves to be completely dishonest, untrustworthy and uncaring about any and all who do not agree with thier rhetoric..

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. Watcher, I totally agree with you!
That is one superior rant, and it pretty much covers every aspect of what the BFEE is doing to this country. HOWEVER, I have to remind you there's a line you can't cross with Agent Mike hanging around. I realize he's got a very boring job and needs something to wake him up every once in a while, but we wouldn't want to get him TOO upset now, would we?
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #91
124. I know what you are saying Raksha
But the reality of it is if these people are not stopped, Agent Mike is going to be the LEAST of our problems. In fact at this point in time he IS the least of our problems.
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Labalanza Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
96. good one
I'm constantly reminded of the film "They Live" starring Rowdy Roddy Piper. If we all had the right pair of sunglasses, we would see swarms of these alien parasites on our daily newscasts and in our midst. "I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum---and I'm all out of bubblegum!"

http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0...
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BJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. One of my fave films of All Time!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
101. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. And this is why you will not survive this fungus
called "The Bush Admin." or maybe you will, but at a grave cost to your soul.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. Go ahead then.....sever your familial ties and drive them to the
netherlands. Good luck with all that.

:smoke:
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. My family feels the same.
And the ones who don't.......well THEY have pretty much severed ties with ME, you know since I'm one of those lesbian sinners who must burn in hell........or "get saved" and of course tithe.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #110
119. I'm sorry that they feel that way.
I'm glad that although I have political differences with my family, we have mutually been able to stay together and love each other.

I hope one day, they can see the light, and you might be able to forgive them. But, that is your decision, not mine to make. Good luck.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #101
109. My, How IMPRESSIVE.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 05:46 PM by TheWatcher
That's the best you have? I could be wrong, but you sound an awful LOT like the kind of people I am talking about.

You think it's insane to be fed up against atrocity, thievery, fraud, and depravity. Have you been WATCHING what has been going on in this country for the past five years?

HAVE YOU?

These people have taken us to WAR against a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY, that was NO THREAT TO US. They have KILLED 100,000 IRAQI CITIZENS, for no other reason than they were guilty of living in Iraq at the time we decided it was time to go steal their natural resources.

And for WHAT reason?

Freedom?
Democracy?
Liberation?
Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

What's the reason this week?

These people are criminals, gangsters, that have trampled Civil Liberties, Stolen the Treasury, and are in the process of completely destroying EVERYTHING we have stood for and so many people, Including my GRANDFATHER, have fought for for the past 230+ years.

Have you read PNAC? Do you KNOW what these people have done?

Do you know what they are still planning to do?

because if you did, you would be just as outraged as I am.

But no, you want me to play nice. You don't want to rock the boat.

And SHOW ME WHERE IN MY POST THAT I ENCOURAGED THE FOLLOWING:

"I bet a lot of us on here are in the same situation, and you DARE exhort people to sever ties with family and friends just because they have different political beliefs?! FUCK YOU, YOU WORTHLESS, CRAZY, SON OF A BITCH!!!"

SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT.

You can't can you?

Because it is not there.

I am merely expressing the outrage that many of us feel. How ANYONE can support what these people are doing should be MUCH more disturbing to you than those who are fed up to the point that I am.


ANd I will NOT apologize for what I said or the way I feel.

You are welcome to your own opinion, but if you want to shut me up, don't bore me with your senseless name calling.

One of my Best Friends died in this war. He fought in Afghanistan, and then he lost his life when we went to Iraq. he left behind a 25 year-old wife suffering from MS, and a five year old sone. His Wife has had her BENEFITS CUT. I am SICK of what these people are doing. They tell us to Support The Troops, and then they cut their benefits, deprive them of the critical equipment they need, and treat them like cannon fodder.

They care not one whit about the Troops. They care not one whit about YOU. And yet you think I am crazy because I have finally reached a point I can no longer stand to watch any of this happen.

You want to play NICE for the Media.

NOWHERE In that Post did I endorse or call for Genocide.

Those who interpreted that are simply WRONG. You can take that assertion and SHOVE IT. And I will happily get in your face and call you out for accusing me of such.

But the frustration of so many of us has reached a point we are feeling helpless. We don't know what t do because every CIVILIZED OPTION is being TAKEN AWAY.

What are we left with?

THAT is a very dangerous question, and it bothers me we have been forced into thinking about possibilities that most of us would never consider. but that is where we are. Our otions for stopping this are becoming VERY limited.


Fuck Me?

No, FUCK YOU.

At this point, you want to shut me up, get out from behind your keyboard and do something about it.

Otherwise, you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore, or just DEAL WITH IT.

Tell you what, you and the two or three others that have attacked me on this thread can sell yourself AND your country out when and if it ever comes to a point we must actually FIGHT these people for real. But beleive me, if it ever becomes necessary to do what our Forefathers did, I WILL BE THERE. And I will Fight.

What will you do?

I hope you will not be a coward and hide behind your keyboard figuring how not to rock the boat and make yourself look bad.

Get A CLUE, pal.

It can't Happen Here?

Open. Your. Fucking. EYES.

IT HAS HAPPENED HERE.

And it is STILL HAPPENING.

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bee Donating Member (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #109
120. Righteous, Watcher.
Fucking righteous. Bravo.
b~
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #109
123. I wish I had that kind of patience to respond to that kind of crap the way
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 06:51 PM by Seabiscuit
you did.

When people do that kind of thing to me I either ignore them or I tend to explode and get my posts deleted. Why? Because by now I'm so utterly and completely fed up I've run out of patience and all I want to do to people like that is punch their fuckin' lights out.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
103. Thanks for posting this, TheWatcher!
I woke up this morning at 4 am and couldn't go back to sleep. I was still angry about that nasty, !#$% Ohio representative Jean Schmidt, calling Murtha a coward, and all those other self-righteous subhumans that belong to the Republican party.

And I am with you: Scum like them should do us the favor and take themselves out of the gene-pool. Bush supporters should all go to Iraq and take the place of a soldier, so they can come home.

:yourock:






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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
106. Every word.........AGREED!
Thank you!
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
113. Agreed. And agreed. And agreed. So beyond hoping that they'll all
kill themselves before they kill us, there is only one option left. And I can't say it without attracting the S.S. and getting this post taken down. But you've said it in so many words already.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
115. THANK you.
I could not have put it so clearly simply because I am just too angry to make any sense. Thank you.
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The Kicker Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
118. I think this quote is relevant here...
Here are two paragraphs from a book called The Journey Home by Kenneth Wapnick...

"... the point is that we all have the same dynamics going on; we are all paranoid. The whole ego system- from start to finish- as described in A Course In Miracles is nothing more or less than a paranoid schizophrenic system, whose symptomatic components can be gleaned from any standard psychiatric textbook. It is just that certain people are far more extreme,as Adolph Hitler, for example. But in truth we are all Hitlers, believing we are weak, inadequate, and powerless, and that by persecuting or attacking other people in thought, word, or deed- or simply believing that we are better than other people- we will fend off their attacks on us and therefore be better off. Hitler took that paranoid dynamic and became contemporary history's most extreme example.

This same kind of paranoid thinking can be spotted in the controversy over nuclear defense systems. If one really listened to and analyzed what nuclear-overkill proponents are saying, one would realize that the concern is not really with nuclear defense, political advantage, or international concerns. It has to do with a purely individual belief that they are fragile underneath- reflective of the thought system of sin, guilt, fear- and that they have to be protected by the defensive system of special hate and special love relationships. The inner fragility gets projected out onto a larger scale, and that is why A Course in Miracles urges us to make no exceptions and to generalize these principles so that they apply to everything, whether we are talking about international relations, our families, or our personal selves. They are all the same. Everything is the same as everything else, because everything is perceived through our belief that we are separate... It is important to recognize that we all share the same basic thought system..."
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
126. Who exactly will you fight? Clearly you message is filled with violence.
Will you fight or kill me? I will not stand by and let you do violence on others.

Hate will do nothing but consume you. Do you really think people will listen to such hate and intolerence?

"Someone needs to say it. Ultimately, we MAY NOT be able to deal with them in a peaceful, reasonable manner. They are not going to give up what they have gained legally and peacefully."

Nor should they. If you try to force your views on others through illegal actions and violence you will fail. I personally will place the handcuffs on you.

DU is rapidly becoming a place of hate and intolerence. Clearly some are willing to force their views on others. That is not Democracy. The amount of hate being posted increases daily. Some people seem to think everyone else in the country feels the same. Do they? DU is not representative of the nation. People may be calling for change but they are not going to tolerate violence and they will not listen to hate.
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The Kicker Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. This world is a place of hate and intolerance.
Do you think it is possible to keep it from spilling out on message boards? The administration in our White House thrives off of fostering these very things. How could anyone be surprised that it shows up every where in this country. In my experience, the number of posters on DU that advocate violence are far outnumbered by the thoughtful posters. Usually we all tend to remember the violent posts more clearly. Seek and you will find.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. Am I the only one that didn't take this post as serious as some of you
but just a powerful rant? :shrug:
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. Check GD, there are others similar right now.
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The Kicker Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. One thing I have noticed about message boards.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 07:24 PM by The Kicker
Trends in posts. It is almost like a weather system. It blows in and blows back out. What do you think the ratio is between thoughtful posts and non-thoughtful post here? Bearing in mind that none of us can possibly view every post made here today. Do you tend to look for controversial posts? Many people do because it gets their blood moving, it gives them a chance to pontificate, if you will. I've observed the magnatism of certain posts to particular members. It is human nature. We all choose to address the issues that seem either important to us or that piss us off. Just an observation.

edit-typo
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #129
138. no, your not the only one who felt it was a justifyable power rant only
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #126
142. At last we agree on something
At first I was sort of put-off with you, seeing how I generally have a distrust of authority, like police. This comes from living through the 60's and 70's. Seeing leaders assassinated and the police doing nothing. Seeing the police side with the powerful/wealthy and enforcing laws to suppress peoples freedom of expression, even beating people who had done nothing except peacefully assemble. I guess traffic laws needed to be enforced. It's important to get the police's approval before exercising our 1st amendment rights, eh?

But if the police would enforce the law, especially as it applies to Bu$h and the neocons, we would not be so polarized as we are now. I don't see how any prosecutor could fail to indict Bu$h if they gave just a little effort. Yet these people walk around like they are above the law, and it seems they are.

And as a policeman, it would be your responsibility to bring the lawbreakers to justice, if it was within your jurisdiction that the law was broken. Would you like to be the one to place the handcuffs on Bu$h for violating the laws of this land. We here on DU could probably find only a hundred or so laws he has violated.

Will the law enforcement agencies of this country keep giving Bu$h a 'free pass', will they continue to say, "yowsa boss, everything yo's want boss", or will someone say, "Nope, time for a timeout". Here is what I think. Nobody will say anything whatsoever to bring these people to justice.

It's interesting how there seems to be 2 sets of laws, one for the people, and another for those with power/money. I notice this, especially here in the south.

Being a policeman, which set of laws do you prefer to enforce? The easy ones used for the weaker people, or the ones hard to enforce used against those powerful people.

Sometimes, the hard laws to enforce are left to the people to enforce. I would be speaking about certain English common law first brought against Edward the Second. And it is a constitutional option left to the people to enforce. Why else the 2nd Amendment within the Constitution, or is this just for the 'priviledge' of hunting, granted by the DNR?

But how to exercise this option? How can a rabble know when it is necessary and the only way left for the country to survive. I am against violence, however if the law enforcement people refuse to enforce the law of the land, what choice do people have, if they want to live in a country with justice.

Do we wait for the jackbooted police to show-up at our door, to haul the commie librals away? Have you noticed how the colors on the police uniforms here in the south seem to be changing more and more to black? Isn't this strange? Being in a 'law and order' state, I wonder how black uniforms sit with that idea of 'law and order'. To bad my dad is not alive to see the police adopt the colors of the Nazi uniforms. Do you suppose those in power waited for most of the older generation to die-off before buying these new uniforms. The police look nifty with the newer style cattle-prods too. Been lots of 'improvements' these last 5 years, I must say.

When law enforcement turns its back, for whatever reason, then law enforcement becomes an accomplice to the crimes of the powerful. They become a lackey, a hired watchman. A renta-cop.

I hate violence, so I will will probably wait here peacefully. But I am old and probably wouldn't be able to do much anyway.

Personally I think the OP is jumping the gun somewhat. We can give the law enforcement within our country a little more time to do their jobs. But like the OP, I doubt those law enforcement people in Washington DC are up to the task of enforcing the laws of the land when those in power usurp their positions.

But like I said, I'll wait and see.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #126
165. It's filled with anger, and rightly so. Not violence.
However, if they were to throw the first punch, so to speak, force WOULD be justified.

Again, rightly so. I have no regard for unprovoked violence, but self defense? Absolutely.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
134. Righteous Rant!
I am filled with white hot rage as well.

I will spend the rest of my life fighting these people who have ruined our country.
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
136. Thank you Patriot Watcher!
I agree completely, but with much less articulation! How can anyone opposed to this administration's crimes and misdeeds feel anything less impassioned?
The fascists fly off the handle with much more histrionics whenever they want to push their BS on us. The Watcher is much more restrained in his/her outrage than is shit like O-Leily shouting down the opposition or Limbaugh with his phony accusations.
Thank you Watcher - for your passion and for your patriotism. Only a true, committed, patriot would take the time and energy to write and share like you have. Rant On!!

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MsConduct Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
140. A rant is a rant is a rant....E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T!!!
Too bad some of those here couldn't take it for what it is: VENTING!

:applause: :yourock: and all that jazz!
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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
144. Best Post i've seen today !! Thanks !!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
149. I AGREE 100%!!!!
9/11? You bet.
Bush couldn't then and doesn't now care about the Katrina victims.
Torture? Wheeeeeeee!!!!!!
Etc.

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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
153. Feel better now?
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
156. This assertion needs some perspective.
"This is the darkest time of our history, and though we have not yet seen the full effects of what has been done, we are in serious danger of losing everything. If it isn't too late already."

This nation fought and won -- improbably -- a war of independence. We have survived a civil war, which, I believe, was bloodier and more divisive than any other conflict in our history. That war ended the shame of SLAVERY. This was a moral victory of epic proportion since slavery and the economy were tightly intertwined. We have survived a flu pandemic, two "world wars", and the great depression. There was so much social unrest during the depression of the 1930's that it is a miracle that we managed to avoid a revolution. As frightening and destructive as the McCarthy hearings were, McCarthy was ultimately exposed as a demagogue and a nutcase. We came out stronger as a nation as a result of the civil rights movement. The war in Viet Nam brought down a President, and the attempts to tamper with a national election by burglarizing the Democratic National Headquarters in the Watergate complex brought down another President.

There is no doubt that we are in deep trouble now. But let us draw strength and courage from our long tradition of guts and determination to preserve our freedoms and our role in the world as a beacon of justice and peace.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
157. good rant
Although my Buddhist tendency is to work for peace, I am reminded of another person who confronted authority:

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the table of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
-Matthew 21

We need to get the moneychangers out of our government. I want my Constitution back.

I will work for peace, but will not be surprised to discover the other side is preparing for war. I am not sure I wish to be a martyr.
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JWS Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
158. "Oh, so you don't support the troops?" - * 's reply
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 12:28 AM by JWS
Actually in seriousness, I understand that you feel marginalized, however I think that it is dangerous to caricature a group of people in such a negative light, no matter how offensive the things they do are.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
160. Nietsche said it best...
Actually, two things. "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster." And "Whenever you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."


I feel very sorry for him. At the end of the day, he may win the battle, but only by turning himself into what he hates. And so, in essence, Bush still wins.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
162. Republican= Terrorist
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 01:13 AM by JCMach1
"You are up against an adversary that DOES NOT CARE. It has not one shred of humanity. Human life means NOTHING to these people. Morality, Right and Wrong, Reason, Logic, mean NOTHING. The majority of the American people, which means 95% of you, the well-being and interests of said people means NOTHING to these people."
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
163. F**K YES!! Welcome to the party.
They drew first blood, not us. Now its time to fix the problem.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
164. Hallelujah! ABSOLUTELY PERFECT! (Except for "legally and peacefully.")
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 01:40 AM by Vektor
I think they have gained nothing that way. What they have, they have gained through murder, corruption, war, and fraud. All illegally, all violently.

Everything else you said is as if it came out of my own head.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
166. Convict Them. Jail Them. Make Them PAY
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 01:48 AM by upi402
oh hell yes
i have been saying that for years and years.
even before neil bush robbed savers at the savings and loan looting.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
167. After a rant like that I hope you had a paper bag nearby
Don't hyperventilate!!!

Yep...I'm pretty sick of them too.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
168. I love movie quotes, but you got one thing way wrong
When Reese said

'It can't be bargained with! It can't be reasoned with! It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever", until you are dead!"

he wasn't talking about mindless reactionaries. You got pretty much everything else right in that analogy, except the fear part. They most definitely feel fear. Alot of it. Fear of others, fear of losing their stuff, fear of not having others under their heel.

They fear pretty much everything in fact. They're only tough when they gang up on someone smaller.

Their fear is what gives them the self-righteousness to excuse whatever they want to do any way they want to do it. To 'protect' themselves and their stuff, by any means necessary. If that means they have to lie, cheat and steal, then they're still the good guys. They're always the good guys in their mind, because good is whatever is good for them.

Self-righteousness and fear. They don't motivate Terminators, but they drive much of the right-wing mind.
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clu Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
170. pow! nice rant
yea... if the targets of the fitz investigation get pardoned, i'll hit my boiling point. at that point i don't need anything more drastic than whatever makes our will known.

someone in that affair needs to pay.
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KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
172. THIS is the BEST rant EVER!!

I feel the same way AND you have expressed it very very well!!

ThankYou!!
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
174. great rant
this is my sig line but I'll post it properly because I think it applies here:

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

Sam Adams
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
179. Bush is Hitler
we will cleanse our land.
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DeepGreen Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
180. Excellent !
Been there, am there, will stay there !!
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
183. Great Post
nominated
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
194. I've got to spread this around to a coupla of other places.. brilliant...
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
195. TheWatcher, That's the best rant I've seen in ages
:yourock: I could not agree more I'm also getting pretty fed up with Dems who make excuses for the kind of behavior you talk about.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
197. End the war now
stop the deceit and death......
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
198. Great Rant!
It's a class war all right. One that both the elite dem and rethug elected officials in Washington DC are supporting. You wanna talk genocide? How about how the middle class and poor in this country are being systematically exterminated at the hands of these elites in office in DC at the direction of their corporate masters! :grr:


Oh yeah, WE THE PEOPLE are in deep deep deep shit.

The Watcher-You are so right-we must watch our backs.... :scared:
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
199. DITTO!
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
200. Then we've already lost. (nt)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
205. Deleted sub-thread
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
206. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
207. Deleted message
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #207
208. And exactly what does the RIGHT have to offer?
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 04:00 PM by TheWatcher
There are "criticisms for The White House?"

You ignorant half-wit, do you have ANY UNDERSTANDING at all to what the people you support have DONE?

They LIED Our country in to a WAR. We attacked a SOVEREIGN NATION that was of no threat to us whatsoever. They have lied repeatedly about the conditions and the reasons we went to that War. And they continue to lie.

There were no Weapons Of Mass Destruction.

2000+ American Soldiers have died. Over 100,000 Iraqi Citizens have died.

Your President and his Cabal have not provided them with the equipment they need, or provided the amount of manpower to do their job. They cut their benefits and have driven our military into the ground.

But the even bigger point is WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE TO BEGIN WITH.

You speak of wack-ass leftism?

You ignorant piece of shit, IT'S YOUR SIDE THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THIS. ALL OF IT.

It's the people you support, and continue to support.

And the biggest joke of all is, THEY don't SUPPORT you, or your interests. Their debilitating domestic policies hurt YOU just as much as the us, the people you seem to hate so much. No matter what they do, you idiots always vote against your own best interests. You not only sell your country out, you sell YOURSELVES out as well.

These people couldn't give a Tinker's DAMN about you. But you would follow them like a Lemming into whatever Hell they concocted. You are every bit as much the problem as they are.

This isn't about getting the country to moderate. This is about saving our country from the most criminal, corrupt, and dangerous administration in our history.

And spare me your pap about debate. Looking at your joke of a Web Site, you aren't interested in debate. You aren't interested in facts. You aren't interested in anything that would resemble critical or independent thinking. You simply walk in lock step with all the Talking Points and the garbage that this so-called leadership, Fox News, and people like Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Savage spew everyday. There IS nothing to debate with people like you, because you won't listen to any other alternative viewpoints but your own.

It is YOUR SIDE who has brought us to this point. It is YOUR SIDE and the leaders YOU support that took us into an illegal, unjustified war. it is YOUR SIDE that supported the torture at Abu Gharib, and called it "fraternity hazing". It Is YOUR SIDE that continues to support these thugs and their agenda, and is determined to follow them to the end no matter wat.

It is YOUR SIDE and the leaders you support that is destroying this country.

Of course I don't speak for you. I speak loudly against you. Because YOU are part of the problem. And as far as I'm concerned, you are the enemy.

What points or ideas do you have to offer? Show us where we are wrong about these people and their policies. JUSTIFY what they have done. JUSTIFY what they continue to do. Show me where we are wrong. Share you ideas and vision of the future.

Go ahead, I fucking DARE you.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #208
212. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #212
233. Deleted message
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #233
237. Well he is not advocating a concentration camp
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 07:16 PM by nadinbrzezinski
but your heoes have advocated torture and continue to advocate it, and are running a concentration camp, at Guantamo Bay Cuba, where no organization such as the ICRC has been allowed in, in months...

But hey we have also an administration that has REFUSED the writ of Haveas Corpus to TWO US ciitzens, who have been declared enemy combatants, but I am sure yuo have no problem with that since that is the other.

So tell me exactly who should be screaming sig heil... those who have already practiced these horrors, in the right here and now or what you choose to read?



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #237
262. Deleted message
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #212
235. Where exatly are the WMDs, in massive quaitnities
that was the Casus Belli, so exactly where are they>

Please do show them to me... I am waiting
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
209. GET THEE TO THE CONCENTRATIONS CAMP!
Your "message" sounds like you would happily send your political adversaries to concentration camps if you only had the physical power. You don't want to persuade people any longer. You want to destroy them. The practice of "de-humanizing" ones enemies ("Terminator", "Aliens") was actually perfected by the Nazis.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #209
238. While yuo type this the administration is doing exactly this
Guantamo Bay Cuba comes to mind...care to tell me why the ICRC has not been allowed in? And that is just the start...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
210. Deleted message
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #210
214. And my friends here, is Exhibit A in all it's glory.
THIS is what we are up against.

There is no need to respond, because this trash pretty much speaks for himself.

As for the poster, he doesn't need to kill himself.

It's quite clear from his words that he is, mentally and spiritually at least, dead already.

But to set the record straight on one thing.

Your side STOLE the past two elections.

And the last time I checked, your majority is down to 34%.

Americans are becoming more conservative?

No, it would seem to me that over 60% of Americans disagree with what idiots like you believe in and support.

And don't worry, you won't be here long.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #214
215. Sadly, I think his/her exhibit A matched your exhibit A.
Call it a draw. I don't like either one.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #215
220. And you are welcome to your Opinion.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #220
229. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #214
218. Deleted message
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #218
219. My values are represented by your leaving.
You have been weighed
You have been measured
And you have been found wanting. Begone, subhuman.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #218
240. Hmm where have I heard this before
Oh yes Vietnam... the irony is that the media is controlled by you guys, but hey, whatever trips your trigger, you won't be happy until you eliminate any and all oposition and craete a police state. We know...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #214
223. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #214
228. Deleted message
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #228
241. Ah free clue
bush is a con man, and he is NOT a conservative... he CONNED you... he is a RADICAL
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #228
248. Polled on the war, the majority disapprove.
I guess that's hard for you to understand.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #210
216. I'd like for you to read this thread...
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 05:18 PM by myrna minx
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Why I Am a Democrat" by Gov. Mark Warner
Why I Am a Democrat
by Gov. Mark Warner
2003-05-31
http://www.forwardtogetherpac.com/php-bin/news/showArti ...

"...In Washington the last couple of years, we've seen lots of talk, but few results. And we're heading in the wrong direction.

The last time we had a Democratic President, America saw the first budget surpluses in a generation.

Just three years later, the Republicans' own numbers show a future filled with deficits as far as the eye can see.

The last time we had a Democratic President, unemployment fell to record lows. But today it climbs a little higher every month.

The last time we had a Democratic President, the stock market soared. Today, it just sputters.

In 2000, America was promised something called "compassionate conservatism." And you know - that sounded familiar to a lot of us in the South. We had been saying for a long time - balance the budget, but not on the backs of working people.

But they meant something else - and all we got was more of the same....

Virginia hasn't voted for a Democratic President since Lyndon Johnson in 1964. When I ran for Governor, the Republicans controlled both houses in the legislature and every statewide office - and the White House picked our Governor to run the Republican National Committee.

And despite those odds, we won because we built a new coalition of Virginians.

We did that by laying out a message that focused on meeting the needs of an information age economy - a message that stressed economic opportunity, educational opportunities, and fiscal responsibility.

We started with the most loyal Democrats. We said to African Americans and to working people - We know that you have been taken for granted in the past. Those days are over. You will help lead this team.

We said, we're going to bring people together - just like Governor Winter showed us how to do here in Mississippi.

And then we reached out to Virginians in rural communities - to people who hadn't voted for a Democrat in a long, long time. And we asked them to give us a chance.

In a 21st century economy, you can be successful anywhere - if you have a good education and job skills.

We talked about giving young people the chance to get a good job in the place they grew up. Because you shouldn't have to leave your family or your hometown to get ahead.

We said, Virginia will never prosper if all the good jobs are in one area, and other places get left behind.

And then we said something that a lot of people had never thought of - you can like NASCAR - you can like hunting - you can like bluegrass music - and you can still vote for a Democrat.

We did all this because we recognized that if you're going to offer people economic hope, you can't spend all your time talking about the same old social issues that have divided us for too long.

You can't move forward if every discussion is about abortion and guns.

Those are all important issues, and we can't ignore them. But they create passion that often distracts us from more fundamental issues.

And let me say it again - if we can do it in Virginia, we can do it for America.

We have to do it for America. Because America deserves better than failed fiscal policy. America deserves better than an economy that leaves millions of people and whole communities behind.

And Democrats offer better. We offer optimism, and we offer hope for the future.

Now as you might guess, a lot of Republicans and Independents supported us. And since then, a lot of them have asked me, Mark - Why exactly are you a Democrat?

And I just smile. Because if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.

I am a Democrat because since Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence - and since Jackson spoke for the common man - our party has never been the party of the status quo.

Instead, we have been the ones to see a challenge - and do something about it. Let's be honest - it hasn't always worked perfectly. Sometimes it has gotten us in trouble. Sometimes it has split us apart. But sometimes, those are the wages of progress.

And yet, I am a Democrat because the greatest and most noble political experiments of our time had their birth in our party.

I am a Democrat because the New Deal literally saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

I am a Democrat because a generation after a Democratic president started the Peace Corps, you can still find faded photographs of John F. Kennedy on the walls of homes from South Africa to South America.

I am a Democrat because fighting for working men and women is always the right fight.

I am a Democrat because our party led the struggle for civil rights and because we recognize that discrimination and bigotry are not dead - and that we must continue to seek equal opportunity for all.

I am a Democrat because despite our failures, our missteps, and our excesses - we know that waging a war on poverty does not mean fighting the individuals who are poor.

I am a Democrat because we know that today's battle is about the future versus the past - and it's time to put aside yesterday's battles of us versus them.

I am a Democrat because we know that criticizing success won't create a single job.

And most of all, I am a Democrat because when my three daughters go out into the world to make their lives, I want them to find a world where there's less hopelessness - less selfishness - and less violence.

I want them to find a world where there is more opportunity - more understanding - and more hope.

That is the mission of this party.

That is what we work for.

That is why we get up every morning.

That is why we're here tonight.

And our work is not done."



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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #210
239. Yuo mean more fascist? That is what you mean right?
that is waht you want, and you do not tell the American people what yuour true agenada is... which is the destruction of the Republic... that is your true agenda...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
211. Deleted message
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Batgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
213. one thing's for sure
The OP stumbled upon a formula for attracting the Yellow Freepwinged Warbler. They must really be attracted to this particular flavor of birdseed to flock to the feeder in such large and colorful numbers. Their chatter is quite entertaining, and identifiable by certain repetitive sounds: "liberal media!" "Bush critics support terrists!" "Squawk!"

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clu Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #213
261. hehe
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
217. Good rant. nt.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
221. that's a great rant, watcher!
:woohoo:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
222. Deleted message
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #222
224. You're sympathy is neither wanted nor required,
Let's hear you defend this administration and it's policies.

Go Ahead.

I'm waiting.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #224
225. Wow, you sure gotten some to finally pay attention...bout dam
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 06:06 PM by AuntPatsy
time, the trouble is, they now appear to be playing the victim as in poor poor me, a little to late after having to deal with the likes of hate and anger all of politics for the past several years that I have never seen in all my years...

What is a perfect bible quote?

For your freepers, "You Reap What You Sow", have heard your side use in in response to those that need aid such as good medical care, food etc....

Karma can sure be a bitch, you broke it, you fix it...meaning relations with others...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #224
226. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #226
227. As do you.
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 06:35 PM by TheWatcher
It's amusing that some of you assume that you are dealing with some sort of nut, some sort of irtattional psycho.

I can assure you, that you most certainly are not.

I didn't ask you to defend me, I asked you to defend the policies of this administration, that drove the anger and the frustration behind what I felt at the time I wrote that.

You can't, and you won't. I have no problem with opinions. You are welcome to yours.

I could care less about your opinion of me and what I wrote.

You beat your chest like a rabid ape and claim there is nothing I can do about you and your opinion of me.

And there isn't a damn thing you can do about me, and there is not a damn thing you can do to silence me. So there is no point to further discussion. I want nothing to do with people like you.

Unless of course, as I stated, you would care to defend this administration and it's policies.

Like I said, I'm waiting.

What you should be worried about is the people who are running this country into the ground, and attempting to Silence Dissent, and fully intent on silencing this Democracy that has stood the test of time for over 230 years, and is in grave danger of ceasing to exist.

I'm the least of your worries.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #227
236. One cannot defend that which is indefensible, so all you will
receive are childish name calling as well as attacks to your character, so predictable...

Too bad they have not realized, such tactics no longer have any impact.
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Dances with Cats Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
230. I'm ready
to take to the streets.
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #230
242. Then go, they're right outside
I've never understood people who claim they are ready for a revolution and ready to "take to the streets" but lose that enthusiasm when their fingers stop typing.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #242
243. Hmm given the 10 members of the 101
typing brigade that have shown best case to counter protest the anti war demonstrators I fear son you are out of your league.
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Dances with Cats Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #242
244. WTF
Great, I'm supposed to go and start the revolution. Too bad I'm in such a rural area.
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #244
263. Then how?
How does it start?
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nunovyurbiznez Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
246. What would have been your reaction
if a right-winger had typed something like that? I agree that something must be done in this country and done quickly, but are rants promoting violence against and the murder of one's political opponents really the way to go? It's strange that so many people here support peace organizations, yet others and probably some of the same people support this call for murderous violence. I just don't understand it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
247. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #247
250. Welcome to DU-
now fuckin' WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #247
252. Unbelievable... This is why I don't go to rightwing sites.
"the Clinton administration that hold the all time record for convictions and guilty pleas" -- WRONG.

"There appears to have been very little corruption in this administration compared to the Clinton debacle" -- WRONG. T

They gained (office) legally and peacefully" -- WRONG.

"I fail to see the destruction." -- DUH!!

"The economy is doing well." -- WRONG.

"We are incurring some debt" -- Understatement of the CENTURY.

Idiots.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #252
256. I can't read the writing of people who don't know how to use
paragraphs. Thanks for the summary. :)

I still don't think advocating violence against RWers is the answer. Polarization will lead to destruction. I'm very glad that Murtha spoke out. He's the kind of person that hopefully everyone will listen to.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #247
255. What a load of asinine crap
You have been weighed
You have been measured
And You have been found wanting. Begone, stupid.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
249. What does one do when family and acquaintances all support
this administration?

I've thought and thought and can't come up with a satisfactory answer.

:(
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #249
251. You love them because they are your family and friends. n/t
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #251
254. I do love my family, but there are a lot of issues.
It's more than just politics. I don't want to get into it here, but there has been a lot of water under the bridge. As of now, I try to stay away from them as much as possible, but be kind when I'm around them. It's just a damn shame...very hard.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #254
257. It is a damn shame.
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 10:20 PM by tx_dem41
My father is 84 now, and I know one day he won't be around. So, I make sure that I cherish those moments I have with him now.

Good luck in your future relationships with your family. I will be pulling for you both.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #257
258. Thanks. I want to do the right thing on all counts.
I went through my boiling point, too, but I think I've recovered enough, gained a more level head so that I can continue.

I spent the morning e-mailing, faxing and calling my representatives about McPherson's wanting to certify DIEBOLD in California. It felt good to do something productive, even if there are no visible results.

I still don't know how to deal with anger, but I know that I have to release it as much as I can so that I can function in a way that doesn't make me feel ashamed. This is a hard time and people's emotions are running high. May we all find a place of balance.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
259. +1 more
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
264. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #264
265. Zell, is that you?
1. "Moran" is a classic rightwing spelling. People here use it in reference to people like you.

2. Let's see if Tweety Matthews takes you up on your offer first.

"Bring it on," indeed... I think the people he was encouraging did "bring it on." Happy?

:eyes:
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #264
267. Regarding the mispelled word...
You might check out the DU Glossary in the Research Forum
moran
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
266. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #266
268. Actually It Was THE RIGHT that led us down that path, or are you
Edited on Tue Nov-22-05 05:23 AM by TheWatcher
Forgetting what your Boy King Said:

"You're wither with us, Or Against us."

Those are HIS WORDS.

That's HIS idea of leadership.

The Right adopted this course first, not us, and certainly not ME.

They've been doing it for many years.

It gets spewed from the Hate Merchants that are necessary for their ilk to even function every day, (I'm not going to assume you are one of them, but I think it's a safe bet since this thread has gotten all of you lathered up and you've been migrating over here to show everyone what pathetic hypocrites you are) because you are incapable of a single, critical, independent thought. Rush, O'Reilly, the whole lot of them.

Just the other day O'Reilly called for the destruction of San Francisco. And that if San Francisco was attacked, we should do nothing about it. Just let everyone die.

That's THE OTHER SIDE talking, brother. Not ours. Not ME.

It's your President that adopted such a hateful, Black And White Policy against the rest of the world, not us. Not ME.

One visit on any given day to many Sewers like FR, CU, Protest Warriors, take your pick, you can see plenty of calls for the extermination and destruction, physical, spiritual or otherwise for people that disagree with where Bush and his Cabal have taken this country. The OTHER SIDE has been threatening and beating their chest like rabid Apes for our demise in some form or another for a very long time.

Every day Rush, Hannity, Coulter, Savage, and many others continue to ratchet up the hate rhetoric against anyone who dissents or disagrees with the foolish and reckless policies of this administration, or anything that doesn't lean to the right.

I find it hilarious, that so many mouth-breathers came over here today to proclaim me a Nazi, when so much worse gets posted and frothed amongst those idiots every day across the Internet and everywhere else.

And now They see a lone post on Democratic Underground, from a poster who has never once committed a violent act in their lives. A post that was made in a moment of extreme frustration and anger, from someone who is sick and tired and fed up with dealing with this crap day in and day out, sick and tired of dealing with people that aren't interested in civility, have no interest in logical or reasonable debate, nothing but blind faith and lock step, robotic, cult-like faith for any piece of garbage propaganda that is fed them from those they support with equal blindness, sick of seeing the so-called leadership in this country destroy and wreck the interests and well-being of ALL Americans, no matter what their affiliation, sick of seeing our Soldiers AND innocent Iraqi's die every single day FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON.

And driven to anger in the extreme because it just keeps getting worse, and nothing ever seems to stand in their way.

They see a post from someone who has been passive all of their life, who has always attempted to take the logical and reasonable path, who has never lifted a violent finger against another human being, express a post at the height of extreme anger and frustration, someone who has never felt these feelings in their life. Anger and frustration that the actions of this administration, it's policies, and the cult-like support of their supporters has driven them to.

And all of a sudden they cry foul. All of a sudden, they get all riled up and scream Genocide. All of a sudden they come over here and scream Nazi. That I'm a murderer. That I am going to commit random acts of violence. That I'm calling on everyone to follow my lead. They act all innocent and and noble, attempting to paint themselves as reasonable people who are just SHOCKED at such a display.

And to them I say, Fuck You.

You miserable, pathetic hypocrites.

After years and years of us taking the spew, much of it far worse in word, deed, and thought ANYTHING in that post, now all of a sudden you want to show "concern, shock, and dismay."

What makes them hypocrites is they hear the same thing from their fellow peers, and from people like Rush, Savage, Coulter and O'Reilly, and they say "Fuck, Yeah!" in agreement, whether it's inward or outward.

So they came here today to attack me. To attack what I wrote. Because it scared them. Because it was extreme.

You want to know something? It scared ME, too. I never thought that I could feel anger like that. I never thought I could feel such extreme feelings. I am passive by nature and I always have been. But THAT is the kind of anger that many people are feeling right now. That is the kind of anger that is simmering beneath the surface in SO MANY people in this country. I unleashed mine for all to see, but there is so much more of it out there that you never see.

This country is being torn apart. Ripped to shreds by people who do not give a damn about EITHER SIDE. Right or Left. Democrat, OR Republican. We are all being used as a means to an end for an agenda.

They have successfully managed to divide us and pit us against one another, and after five years of this madness, some of us are starting to feel hopeless, helpless, and yes, some of us are being driven to levels of anger and frustration we didn't even know EXISTED within ourselves.

This is a point of view I have TRIED to share with the other side over the years. That the leaders they support DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY OF US. That the leaders they support care no more about those who support them, than those who oppose them.

I have no problem with opposing views. I have no problem with healthy debate. What we all need to realize is that we need to get BACK to that in this country. We need to realize that yes, Democrat, Republican, Independent, whatever your affiliation, whatever your race, whatever your religion, we will always have differences, we will always have debate about the issues in life that are important to us, we will always be at odds on what direction we should go.

But we need to come to a fundamental understanding that people like Bush and his Cabal DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY OF OUR INTERS TS. Only theirs. They are using us all against one another to achieve an agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with the interests of America, it's Citizens or anyone else on the planet except THEM and their associates. We shouldn't be fighting each other. We should be fighting against THEM. We should be jailing, convicting, and MAKING THEM ACCOUNTABLE for their crimes against ALL of us, and stop their agenda before there is NO AMERICA.

But the other side doesn't seem to want to listen.

This is the message they have given to people like me.

You are not welcome. You are not wanted. We are not interested in debate. We are not interested in facts. We are not interested in reality. We are not interested in your wants or needs. We are not interested in alternative viewpoints. We are not interested in reason. We are not interested in logic. We are not interested in co-existing with you.

We support this administration and it's policies no matter what. This is the way it's going to be, and if you don't like it you are unpatriotic, un american. If you dissent we will shut you down. If you resist you will be destroyed.

In essence, "You're Either With Us, Or Against Us."

I didn't choose this road. I didn't choose that policy. For years I have TRIED to be compassionate. I have TRIED to be passive. I have TRIED to reach out.

But the other side bit my hand off and slapped me across the face with it. They have made it quite clear what they support. They have made it quite clear they are not interested in compromise or common ground.

So no, I do not want to see this administration's supporters killed or exterminated in mass genocide. I am not calling for the death of all Bush supporters. I have no plans to go commit random acts of unprovoked violence.

But I will say this. After five years of this nightmare, and realizing that, with so many people that continue to blindly support this nonsense no matter what, I can safely tell them this.

I get the message.

Loud And Clear.

Unilateral Civility is no longer on the table for me. If this is what they want, so be it. I no longer want anything to do with people that so blindly support something that is destroying this country and endangering not only OUR way of life, but if left to go on unabated, with threaten the lives of EVERYONE ELSE as well. They have shown me they are not interested or capable of being reached or reasoned with.

I have finally had enough.

Leave me alone, and you'll be left alone as well. Attack me or my family without provocation, physically or otherwise, I will defend myself, them and anyone else you make a target. It's that simple.

Just like your Boy King Said:

"You're Either With Us Or Against Us."

And that's the message I get from the people I referred to.

Well, if I have no other choice, and you are determined to follow that Bastard till the very end, then you can be quite assured I'm Against You.

And for those who think I was calling for Genocide, your selective reading skills are showing, because you seemed to glaringly miss this:

"I know most here, including me, think the most desirable conclusion to this sad tale is to bring these people DOWN, and make them ACCOUNTABLE
for the THINGS THEY HAVE DONE.

Convict Them. Jail Them. Make Them PAY as High A Price as Necessary.

But do it Legally And Peacefully."

That's what we all want. And we should all hope that is how this ends.

Time Will Tell.

There was a Poster in the counter thread to this post that had a very interesting point.

It's not about fighting, it's about HOW we fight.

That's actually a very good point.

And my question in response is thus:

What if my worst fears are right? What if these Thugs DO decide to take this all the way?

How will you fight? How will you fight back?

Or in the words of Sir Sean Connery:

"What Are You Prepared To DO?"

None of us want to deal with this question because none of want to believe it could ever happen.

But it's a question everyone should start dealing with and facing.

I've done a lot of soul searching since I made that post, and I know what my answer to that unthinkable question is.

If it ever comes to that point, I WILL stand up and take the path our Forefathers took. I WILL fight to save this country. I WILL NOT Surrender my country or my way of life to these people. And I won't Surrender anyone else's either.

And, lastly I will retract one statement I made in that post.

I regret the Bill Hicks reference at the end. When one is driven to that point of anger, you must find a way to pull yourself back from such notions. It may have been something I felt in the heat of anger at that moment, but it isn't really what I wish upon these people. That isn't who I am. That isn't the answer. And it isn't something you should wish on anyone.

It would be much better for them to live through this with the rest of us, and let Karma take it's course. It is not my place to play judge, jury, and executioner.

And Karma may not be nearly as lenient or kind as me.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
269. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
270. Deleted message
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Batgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #270
271. wow, I'll bet you have one of those "no fear" sticker on your vehicle
along with some of those plastic gonads dangling from the rear bumper?

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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
272. Michelle Malkin is linking to this post...
...which explains all of the right-wing whackos coming out of the woodwork. I looked up "nutty" in the dictionary and her picture was next to it :rofl:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003966.htm
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #272
273. I just saw that too
Watch out! She has a "mugshot collection"!!!!

:rofl:

<snip>

Oh, my. Someone just sent me a link to the latest popular rant at the Democratic Underground. An excerpt:

I am an American, Born and Raised, but I am NOT a citizen of BUSH'S America. I want nothing to do with the country these people have created.
And for those who support them, Let's get Something Nice And Sparkling CLEAR:

Stay The Away From Me. Stay OUT of my personal space. I want NOTHING from you. I want NOTHING to do with you. I want NOTHING to do with your "vision" of what the world should be.

What DO I want from you?

Honestly?

I will freely admit there are days, and they are becoming more than not, that the Alien at Area 51 in Independence Day and I share quite a common ground on the answer to that question.

And I am NOT apologizing for it.

In the words of the Late, Great Bill Hicks, about the most conciliatory thing I can say for those people at this point is simply this:

Kill Yourself.


Read the whole thing and the hundreds of comments, most of which endorse the diatribe. I have a feeling that the ranter and his supporters are going to end up in my mugshot collection sooner or later.


I'll bet no one has a mug like this!



:rofl:
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