'Pulling out would mean they all died IN VAIN'--they already have

[mopaul]

that's one of the republinazi's favorite phrases right now in regard to staying the curse or not. we don't want the brave soldiers to have died in vain. too late.

[thefloyd]

1. Yeah

Do they want more to die in vain?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. Yes,

let's honor the memories of those poor souls who died for no good reason by getting a whole shitload more killed.

Then, we can build a mirror wall to the Vietnam Memorial, when we get 58,000 names.

They all died for nothing. That's the horror for all the dead Iraqis and Americans.

[seemunkee]

3. If that is the case then should we go back to Vietnam?

After all the circumstances are the same. And what Korea? We would need to go finish that war up too.

[sui generis]

4. I like it: honor the dead by killing more people

oh goodie.

[EFerrari]

21. My Spanish teacher pointed that out to me when I was 11

and the Viet Nam debate was starting to boil over. Even at 11, I got it.

TAKE IT TO THEM. IT WORKS.

:hi:

[aquart]

5. Stupidly kill more to justify stupidly killing before?

Well, sure. Who wouldn't?

[HereSince1628]

23. This is a common psychosis that makes casinos fabulously rich

It's known as the "Sunk-Cost Effect"

Basically it involves throwing more and more resources at a loss and making it a greater and greater loss with the misplaced hope that something will turn around and redeem the entire investment.

Of course, the tragedy is that lost lives can never be redeemed.

[EFerrari]

29. Exactly. n/t

[0007]

33. That true, you can always replace money, but not life. n/t

[Festivito]

36. Honor the dead by killing more people in vain.

Honor the investment by throwing away more IN VAIN.

So, we won't need to ask that last person to die for a lie.

[HereSince1628]

43. Yep, that unfortunately sums it up.

[NJ Democrats]

6. That's excatly what i was thinking!

[Disturbed]

13. May have died and many more have been maimed.

Most have served their country honorably. Let us not say that they died or were maimed in vain. Let us work on getting the troops out of Iraq now.

Bush Regime Iraq Successes

1. Saddam will no longer sell Iraqi oil via the Euro.

2, A military foothold in the ME. Other than Saudi Arabia.

3, No countries will be able to buy Iraqi oil that the U.S. disapproves of.

4. The Multi-Intl. Oil Corps are reaping great profits.

5. The Military Industrial Complex is a booming Industry.

“We live a lie when we fail to hold leaders accountable for their lies. By not calling now for impeachment, we are saying that we condone hypocrisy, pseudo-democracy, and murdering thousands of Americans and Iraqis for strategic control of energy resources that we have no right to. Patriotism demands that we insist on the ideals of democracy, not that we support the "leaders" who cynically destroy them.”
Robert Shetterly

[tjdee]

7. Well who's fault is it that they died in vain?

You know, I see many Republican Gold Star families with this attitude too. They really have to *believe* that their relative fought for a noble cause, as if their relative's death would mean less if the war was over nothing. It wouldn't.

They can't separate the two, and that's understandable. It's almost like they wouldn't be able to handle the fury of their relative's death being because of a bunch of lies.

As usual, the rest of the Republicans are more than happy to take advantage of that.

That's my completely uneducated opinion. I've not had a close relative in active duty during wartime.

[mopaul]

12. they play on that grief, like ghouls

[EFerrari]

34. Graveyard rats, like Will said. nt

[rman]

8. I guess the theory is that when they're all dead,

none of them will have died in vain.

I think it's a rather high price to pay for a purpose to those folks deaths.

[Lex]

9. What about the OTHERS who haven't died YET? We can save them.

Doesn't that matter to the repukes?

[EFerrari]

30. No, it doesn't matter to the profiteers and it's too hard for

most people to know, to encompass.

We have to help them with that.

[Trillo]

They didn't die IN VAIN...

Thier sacrifices diverted much cash into select coffers.

[Greenpeach]

10. There is no "course."

There's only more killing and dying for what everyone knows is and always has been a lost cause.

[katinmn]

11. The Repukes fill me with revulsion!

Every one of them is a traitor to America's once good name.

They are political whores of the highest order.

I despise them.

[tlsmith1963]

14. No WMD's, So Yes it is True

They died for a lie, or because Bush was misled, or whatever. It doesn't matter which one is true, because they still died in vain.

Tammy

[long_green]

15. We will pull out, the killing will stop...

and THEN we will just fight the same old battles all over again...
"The sandn--s wouldn't stand and fight...we won every battle...the soldiers didn't lose the war...the politicians and civilians did...Liberals were spitting on our soldiers when they came home..."

get used to it because that is going to be the sound of your politics for the rest of your life.

[mopaul]

16. after we've left & iraq falls into chaos, the democrats will be blamed

[Hieronymus]

17. There are plans on Rumsfelds desk for withdrawal

after the first of the year. And Junior lied about it again last nite.

[EFerrari]

35. Unless they get ahead of this curve.

Iraq IS ALREADY IN CHAOS.

I'm a Green, went Green in 2001.

But, those Dems in office now ALL have Viet Nam under their belts.

They can do better this time if they chose to do better.

[cassiepriam]

18. Not pulling out means more will die in vain.

[Hubert Flottz]

19. Staying the COURSE...

Will mean that thousands more will die in vain. Vanity is something the GOP has cornered the market on! They are very good at one thing...VANITY!

[mopaul]

20. at this point they are all dying just so fat cats can save face

it's all about erections and elections.

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Bush's ravings sound more like Hitler's everyday.

"WE will never back down, WE will never give up, WE will never give in," of course WE will never bleed either!

And there he is wearing the military uniforms he ran away from, when it was his turn to "protect and defend!" At least Hitler earned a right to wear his uniform. Bab's boy is playing ARMY again!

[EFerrari]

24. Rate this thread up, please. Because this is the crux we will be

facing. This is the question that no one will be able to confront without shame. Meanwhile, people will continue to die for the war profiteers.

Well done, Oh MoPaul. You do DU proud.

[EFerrari]

25. and a little kick right here

[EFerrari]

26. The shame we will have to bear for this atrocity will be blinding.

And, we will fumble for a while. Today, the thugs lost the country.

The Empire is stark naked.

Well done, America.

:kick:

/English challenged

[xchrom]

27. when didn't they{re: iraq} die in vain?

bush sent them in for a known lie -- so the first one dead -- died in vain -- as will the last.

[ComerPerro]

28. Its sick, isn't it?

"If we pull out now, then we have to admit that they died in vain."

[EFerrari]

31. Precisamente. But, we've been here before.

Viet Nam.

And this time, we have to MAKE SURE we support our service people who have been so disrespected by MendacityCentral.

[tavalon]

39. I've talked to a number of Vietnam era hippies

and they deny that they ever spit on, yelled at or in any other way disrespected the troops returning from Vietnam. As they recall it, the mantra was that they supported the troops just not the war they were sent to fight and die in. Sound familiar?

The right wing media spin is nothing new.

[EFerrari]

46. Well, I was a very young teen at the time. And while I know

there were planted stories, there WAS animosity towards our uniformed people. And it was palpable here in the SF Bay Area, anyway.

People then did no make the clear distinction between the policy makers and the rank and file that we're making this time.

[EFerrari]

32. We need another vote here. This needs to be seen. nt

[EFerrari]

37. kick

[lonestarnot]

38. And we are not even permitted to pay respect when they come home in a box!

Simply disgraceful! They should be ashamed, but the evil in them carries on as though they are righteous.

[smoogatz]

40. The Vietnam analogy

Seems to be holding true, pretty much--both militarily and politically. Of course there's no equivalent of the NVA involved--no North Vietnam, in fact--and the Iraqi insurgency is not yet as cohesive, pervasive or effective as the Vietcong. But, the sad fact (for our military) is that we've apparently learned nothing about counter-insurgency warfare, and we still don't know the difference between an ideological insurgency and a nationalist insurgency (hint: the former doesn't exist). But what's happening here at home is a dead ringer, accelerated: rich, white Republican war hawks trying to save face by sending the poor, non-white and disenfranchised to kill and die on the far side of the planet.

[EFerrari]

47. Dead ringer. But, there is one difference this time.

Every Congress critter REMEMBERs VN, they have that under their belt this time. They can and should do better.

It's astonishing. As soon as McCain denied that this was another Viet Nam, I knew exactly what we were in for.

[spanone]

41. That's the motto of the Military Industrial Complex. Utter Horseshit.

And if they did die in vain, then it's their fucking COMMANDER IN CHIEF'S fault.

[lpbk2713]

42. I say this with apologies to those who have lost loved ones.

So many lives have been lost for what they thought was a noble cause.

In reality they died protecting Haliburton's (BFEE's) interests as a cheap and expendible security force. For Bushco to hire a security force instead would have made this whole enterprise unprofitable. So they do it under the guise of protecting democracy and making the world safer. The best con job they pulled off was making people think anyone who opposes their objectives is unpatriotic. History will judge the Bush regime as one of the most criminal conspiracies ever known.

[glitch]

44. Pulling out would mean acknowledging they all died in vain for the folly

of vain, small-minded, shallow, greedy little men.

You can see why the vain, small-minded, shallow, greedy little men don't want that acknowledgment. But they'll get it eventually.

[elehhhhna]

45. They didn't die in vain. They died for vanity.