Question for the Government of Jordan

[Albert Einstein]

Zarqawi died three years ago. So how did a dead man bomb those hotels? Does this qualify as an act of God or was it people in Jordan unhappy with the U.S. or with their own government? Or has the Government of Jordan read Project Northwoods a few too many times?

[The Magistrate]

1. As A Matter Of Curiousity, Sir

What proof do you have of his death?

[Albert Einstein]

2. Try googling it. Also, a high level official in the Iraqi government

was reported acknowledging that he had been dead in an article that was posted a month or so ago. He died in one of the first bombing raids in Iraq.

[The Magistrate]

3. Any Number Of Claims Have Been Made, Sir

About the deaths of a variety of people in Iraq, that have been demonstrated to be false and mistaken. It is quite common for guerrilla leaders to be reported killed when they are not, and even of some advantage to they themselves to encourage for a while in some circles the idea that they are dead. You are treating as fact something that is far from established as such....

[Albert Einstein]

4. Here is just one of the references that popped up when I googled it

just now.

http://marchhare.gnn.tv/headlines/4940/Cleric_says_al_Zarqawi_died_long_ago

Here is the article on the cleric's comment:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/73570F02-EA07-492F-9E04-C080950DF180.htm

Al Jazeera has received international awards for its objectivity.

[The Magistrate]

5. It Is Meaningless, Sir

The cleric has no first hand knowledge of the case; he is not a witness, and does not indicate what witness, even, informed him on the matter. Nor is there any reason to suspect him of any greater degree of truthfulness and disinterest than the officer preparing a Pentagon bulletin.

[Albert Einstein]

6. Here's some more of the hundreds of references to his 2003 death

If you check it out in an advanced google search, you may find that there is a strong basis to believe that Zarqawi did die at the beginning of the war - as has been repeatedly reported.

Here are just a few of the hundreds of references that came up.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_06/004171.php

http://www.jihadunspun.com/newsarchive/article_internal.php?article=99400&list=/newsarchive/index.php&

http://www.mustafa.arif.me.uk/node/38

[The Magistrate]

7. Again, Sir, Meaningless

None cites any account with personal knowledge; all come from persons to whom the claimed death would be politically convenient. The volume of misinformation and even disinformation and propaganda available using a search engine does not constitute any sort of proof of any assertion.

[dogday]

9. What Proof will you accept as

proof of death? Just wondering. If the MSM announced it, would you believe then? Just wondering?

[The Magistrate]

11. My Taste In Such Matters, Sir

Runs to eyewitness accounts, photographs, corpses, and the like. Accusing me of being a "dupe of the mainstream media" is a mug's game.

Parisan war is one of my especial interests of study, and all histotrical accounts are rife with false claims of the death of partisan leaders, put forward by both the opposing power and the guerrilla movement. Some resolve into genuine mistakes, some are deliberate attempts to demoralize or to hide.

The claims this fellow is dead are mostly used here to establish groundwork for a claim for there is a "hidden hand" of U.S. agency behind the violent activities in opposition to the U.S. occupation of Iraq. That is a view that is, to put it charitably, drawn from a pulp thriller view of how the world works, and rather a disparragement of the determination and ruthlessnss of the forces actually present in opposition to the United Staes in that country.

[dogday]

18. I never accused you of being a dupe

I asked if they announced it, would you believe it? There are things that go on behind the scenes that we may or may not want to realize or fully understand, whether we want to believe in them or not...

[The Magistrate]

19. If The Report, Sir

Did not include such elements as those mentioned above, there would be no particular reason to believe it, whatever the source circulating the account might be.

[meganmonkey]

10. I imagine it would be easier to prove that he is alive,

or that he even existed in the first place. Quite frankly, I am not convinced of either.

He looks like a different person in the various photographs of him in the media, and there have been numerous reports of injuries that contradict with his alleged actions over the last few years.


:shrug:

[The Magistrate]

12. Partisan Leaders, Ma'am

Tend to be figures of mystery in all p;laces and times: that sort of aura is useful in the trade....

[dogday]

8. How come the US Military can't take out 2 Gimps?

One with one leg and the other pulling a dialysis machine through the desert and we can't catch either one of these gimpy dudes.

[salvorhardin]

14. Please refrain from using the term 'gimp'

It's offensive to persons with physical disabilities. It's in the same league with "cripple" and does not add to the conversation. I understand your intent here, but perhaps it could have been phrased a little more thoughtfully.

You may find these links helpful.
http://www.abilitiesfund.org/microenterprise_practitioners/disability_101-_getting_comfortable_with_the_language_of_disability.php
http://www.disabilityisnatural.com/peoplefirstlanguage.htm

[dogday]

17. Are you handicapped?

If I offended you, I am sorry. My post was to show our enemies are what? I can't say crippled, what do you suggest?

Physically challenged enemies? Would help to know how I am to say things if you or anyone is offended, understood, but at least let me know what works for you.....

[salvorhardin]

20. While the term 'handicapped' is also distasteful, yes.

I have a physical disability.

I realize that you did not intend to be offensive, and I did not take offense, it is helpful to point out language such as this.

If you read the links I included, you will find that what most people with disabilties (even this is a contentious term) find offensive is that the language often defines the individual by their impairment. The generally preferred way of referring to people with disabilities is to use what is called "person first" language which seeks to put the person ahead of the impairment so as to emphasize that we are people who happen to have some disability (or impairment), as opposed to being disabled people (or, worse, the disabled!).

You wording specifically invoked the image that people with disabilities are somehow inferior as well as using an offensive term.

This guide by the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham is a pretty good walk through the minefield of disability language.
http://www.barking-dagenham.gov.uk/6-living/accessibility/etiquette/etiquette-menu.html

Like I said, I know you weren't trying to be offensive.

As to your specific question, I'm not sure there is any way of saying it without painting the picture that people with impairments are any less able than any other person.

This might be an interesting question to ask the Disability forum here at DU. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=250

[greyl]

13. A decent MotherJones article on Al-Zarqawi

But first, we simply can't have any reasonable certainty about whether he is dead or alive. Both are possible. Every side of the issue has reasons to lie, and has been shown to have lied in the past.
In May 2005 Aljazeera reported that al-Zarqawi had recently been wounded. In Sept 2005 Aljazeera reported that Sheikh Jawad al-Kalesi claims al-Zarqawi was killed long ago. Can you find an Aljazeera story that reports with certainty and supporting evidence that he is dead? Neither can we find hard evidence that he is now alive.
So good luck getting your answer from the Jordanian government. :)

A remarkable proportion of the violence taking place in Iraq is regularly credited to the Jordanian Ahmad al-Khalayleh, better known as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and his organization Al Qaeda in Iraq. Sometimes it seems no car bomb goes off, no ambush occurs that isn't claimed in his name or attributed to him by the Bush administration. Bush and his top officials have, in fact, made good use of him, lifting his reputed feats of terrorism to epic, even mythic, proportions (much aided by various mainstream media outlets). Given that the invasion and occupation of Iraq has now been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be based upon administration lies and manipulations, I had begun to wonder if the vaunted Zarqawi even existed.
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2005/07/zarqawi_phenomenon.html

Personally, I don't think it matters much if he is dead or alive. I imagine 'our' occupation in the mid-east and the death toll from same is inspiration enough for some to desperately fight back with whatever they have.

It's possible that certain governments are falsely using an alive al-Zarqawi to put a face on our enemy...but then wouldn't that contradict those same governments' dubious claims of killing top leaders of Al-Qaeda in order to garner support for the war on terra?

[notadmblnd]

15. I remember the stories.. early on it was reported he had been killed

then mysteriously he was alive again but only had one leg. These stories were reported in 2003 at the onseet of the war.

[YankmeCrankme]

16. They seek him here...

"They seek him here,
They seek him there,
Those Americans seek him everywhere."

"Is he in heaven,
Is he in hell,
that damned elusive Pimpernel."

With apologies to Baroness Orczy.