Message to John Kerry: NOBODY LOVES A QUITTER

[derby378]

Mark Crispin Miller, speaking on Democracy Now! this morning, said he had a conversation with John Kerry last Friday in which Kerry admitted he now unequivocally believes the Presidency was stolen from him in 2004.

Well, duh.

:dunce:

[Mass]

1. Thanks for the flamebait title.

Mark Crispin Miller does NOT say that Kerry was a quitter - He says clearly Kerry believes NOW.

[William769]

2. Truth hurts.

[Mass]

5. Nope. What hurt is the president we have and the fact

that some people here want to bash democrats rather than those who stole the election.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. So do you believe in blind loyalty like the Bushbots? I certainly don't.

If a Democrat doesn't do their job, they must be held accountable too.

Kerry looked like he took a dive. There was widespread reports of voter disenfranchisement in Ohio, and he never gave a recount a chance. He turned the country back over to a sociopath in practically nanoseconds.

[Mass]

25. Nope. I believe in attacking who should be attacked

I also believe a recount could not change anything.

- The biggest fraud were people who were prevented to vote.
- The second one was fraud withing the BBV, which is not something you can find by a recount.

None of those could be found by a recount.

I understand why people wanted him to stand and I am sure the Democratic leadership did what they could to prevent him to do that.

But it does not change the obvious: contrarely to FL 2000, a recount would not have found enough votes for Kerry to win. The fraud is way too deep and hidden and it needs to be addressed, and you can be mad at Kerry as much as you want, it will not change the obvious: The Count Every Bill Act and a Bill to kill BBV once and for all are the only solutions.

[tallahasseedem]

42. You might want to suit up...

dont you know that you cant criticize Kerry? :sarcasm:

[derby378]

3. I stand by the title

And I don't consider it flamebait. I honestly believe he threw in the towel too soon.

He's a good guy and all that, but with a little more cojones on his part, America could have been a much better place.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

7. I second that emotion!

[KittyWampus]

14. yeah, it's not like the Media wasn't waiting to turn Ohio into a circus

What you fail to grasp is there was no SUBSTANTIAL evidence available to Kerry.

Once again a DU'er's unbalanced passion for hating Democrats (on Democratic Underground) ends up working in the GOP's FAVOR.

It's a Catch 22, and if Miller and other DU'ers can't understand that, then that points to a problem with Miller and other DU'ers not Kerry or those of us who can see the Big PRACTICAL Picture.

To PROVE Election Fraud with Electronic Voting you need hard evidence but you can't get the hard evidence til you prove fraud.

The GOP has set up a Catch 22 situaiton with Election Fraud and the fact you'd rather trash Kerry then recognize the real situation says volumes about you.

[Walt Starr]

18. Kerry conceded. End of story

Had Kerry refused to conced, he'd have the moral authority now. He conceded. Questioning the results now is an even bigger betrayal than his concession.

[second edition]

29. He didn't betray anyone. He made the only choice he could.

I just don't get those of you that think he should of acted like a two year old and refuse to concede. What possible outcome would that have lead to. Voting fraud and stolen elections have been around a lot longer than the past two elections. Fairer elections are going to take some time to achieve. Kerry's refusing to concede would not have netted the results the "he conceded to quickly" crowd would have hoped for. It would of made the democratic party look bad, kerry look even worse and the Republican's would have held the higher ground in the end.

[ROH]

4. It's one thing...

to "unequivocally believe that the Presidency was stolen" but it's another thing to prove that. If Miller's comments are correct, maybe Kerry has held that belief all along?

[fasttense]

6. I never saw Kerry as a quitter.

Just a man who hadn't learned how to fight dirty. Dirty fighting is name of the game with the repukes.

[BlueIris]

8. The quitters are the so-called Democrats who abandoned him on Nov. 3,

turned their backs, abdicated responsibility to uncover and defend the truth, and made no effort to construct an environment in which Kerry could have challenged the legitimacy of the election results and been anything other than vilified by the locked-down press. He didn't fail us, we failed him.

[whometense]

10. Amen. n/t

[brainshrub]

12. Oh, nice spin!

:applause:

If Kerry had asked people to take to the streets and strike, I would have done so.

The Democratic base was begging for action... they got nothing but a fund-raising letter.

[Bridget Burke]

13. After seeing how well the Democrats supported Gore in 2000....

When the Presidency was stolen in front of God & everybody--I don't blame Kerry a bit. Let's remember the media's part in the "Florida Recount," too.

From time to time, we're advised to "get over" the elections of 2000 & 2004, to concentrate on the future. I say we work toward clean future elections by examining what went wrong in the past. And let's not let our anger go to waste.

[Mass]

19. agree

Mark Crispin Miller also says that some dems including Kerry are trying to bring the issue of election fraud to the Senate, but other oppose.

[Telly Savalas]

9. Literally or metaphorically stolen?

And what's your motivation for this post?

[Bridget Burke]

16. Motivation?

Sowing dissension, of course.

[brainshrub]

11. Amen. Nothing wrong with losing an election.

There is nothing wrong with losing an election; It sucks, but that's democracy. No-one is perfect, and if you lose an election due to your own mistakes then it offers a learning experience for the next candidate.

But to surrender within 24 hours! To have to force the Democratic base to depend on Libertarians & Greens to do any research as to what happened! To make people believe you were working "behind the scenes" to make sure all the votes were being counted! To run off to Iraq when the most important vote in this generation was happening in the Senate!

That's just plain pathetic.

Gore got the election stolen from him, but he fought back. He lost the fight, but he saved his dignity. Maybe Gore could have done things differently in 2000, but that's not the issue.

Gore is a fighter. Kerry was a quitter. Guess which candidate I am more willing to fight for in the next election?

[kurth]

15. Kerry was superb at the end - but too little too late

His decision to blow off the Swiftboat ads was clearly fatal. He should have read up a little on Karl Rove and GOP dirty tricks.

[LynneSin]

17. The moment Kerry conceded the election I ripped his sticker off my car

I was ashamed that he wasn't going to fight for every vote like he promised and now, a year later he says it was probably stolen

D'UH

This is why I do not want Kerry OR Gore running in 2008. Hell, I'd support Joe Biden over either of them and I've posted many times that I do not support Biden's candidacy for president (although I would still vote for him again as my senator)

[lonestarnot]

20. Nope still have mine on all 3 cars. LOL

[brainshrub]

21. You don't like Gore?

I'm a bit surprised.

I haven't made up my mind as to who I will support in 2008, but I think Gore would make a good candidate.

[lonestarnot]

26. Never said I would ever support him in another election.

I let them remain on the vehicles to reflect my feeling on the theft. I LOVE Gore!

[LynneSin]

36. Never said I didn't like Gore - just want a new candidate

I'm still crossing my fingers for Fast Eddie (aka Gov. Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania)

[second edition]

30. I still have my sticker on my car, and my buttons on my bag.

I even have one sticker that says, "don't blame me I voted for Kerry" purchased right after the election.

[xchrom]

23. this is just getting good.

:popcorn:

[second edition]

24. Your title is inaccurate- Kerry is a winner!

If it was stolen as was purportedly discussed, then Kerry actually won. I can understand your frustration about the outcome of the election. I couldn't even go to work on November 3rd and I spend days just being angry and crying and crying. I was actually sick to my stomach. But, as far as him throwing in the towel to soon, thats just not fair. Beliefs and hunches are one thing cold hard un- refutable facts, available before the time of concession, are another. No documented, unrefutable proof existed right after the election. And don't bring up the polls and individual accusations of fraud and theft of votes that were only rumors at that point. Kerry would not have gotten very far with accusations of a stolen election with a lack of facts, the media and Republican machine working against against him.

[Walt Starr]

27. If Kerry has hard evidence that the election was stolen, he just tainted

it.

Seriously, this is a HUGE stretegic blunder by Kerry. Beyond Huge. It's STUPID!

[second edition]

31. I don't think tangible proof was mentioned, just culmination of facts

and assumptions.

[Walt Starr]

32. Then it's even worse

Hpefully the MSM won't pick up on this.

[second edition]

37. The media doesn't want to touch this issue right now. It's old news. n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. The media touch election fraud?

Not likely. Look at all the coverage the GAO report generated. :rofl:

I swear to you now, if they were to try and spin this in a negative manner, after turning a blind eye to the blatant fraud, there will be one female in Texas heading to their corporate offices prepared to open a can of whoop ass on them!

[Walt Starr]

43. The media touch Kerry talking about electiion fraud?

Tell me honestly, do you really think Wolf blitzer would not jump at the chance to paint Kerry as a sore loser who is propoising "tinfoilhat conspiracy theories"?

[carolinalady]

28. If Kerry has an eye on the next election-I think he needs to

take action now!

1. Get his info out on every msm outlet with the GAO report-now is the time to strike when the chimp is down.

2. Keep this info on the front burner and inspire the country to change those machines.

3. Work with Dean to get good sos candidates elected in every state.

4. Work with the pac's to get a series of public info-ads in the airwaves.

5. Attack attack attack the RW spin machine--kick ass and name names.

If he does that I would support him again in 2008. If he does not, I have no reason to believe that he will not roll over and play dead in the next election.

[second edition]

34. Kerry has been working hard on behalf of 2005 and 2006 candidates.

There has also been some activity in addressing the SOS situations. And Kerry's PAC is in place and raising money to support these Democratic candidates.

[architect359]

35. That's good to know n/t

[architect359]

33. Disappointed

Like the sentiments that many have expressed since the last elections, to say that I was disappointed when he conceded so quickly is an understatement. From what I understand, Edwards wanted to at least wait a while longer to challenge for further confirmation. That seemed to be the prudent course of action given the suspicions from the 2000 election. Maybe they wouldn't have been able to prove it right than and there, but a show of effort would have gone a long way. It was this show of effort that gave Gore a leg up morally and since then, Gore's actions have always given us a bittersweet taste of what might have been.

So, yeah - don't dwell on the past but we should very well remember and learn from it. Here's to wanting (hoping) for the best in 06 + 08.

[second edition]

38. I'm hoping for the best in 2005 and 2006 also. n/t

[mzmolly]

39. The "quitter" put through legislation in February of 2005 to address

voting concerns:

http://www.johnkerry.com/features/count/

[kansasblue]

41. I'd forgive him for accepting the election if he would

fight to fix the next one. He did neither. We go into the next election with our pants down.