For Those Who Had A Lousy Fitzmas... Were You Around During Watergate ???

[WillyT]

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, just curious.

The Watergate Scandal was more of a slow unraveling at the start, as I believe this scandal is\will be. Go rent the movie 'All The Presidents Men' for a refresher course. And I really do believe that this administration has been dealt a serious body blow, no matter how the right-wingers choose to spin the results. I also believe that we are gonna see a lot more crippling evidence to come.

Remember, there were many a pundit, from both sides, theorizing that Fitz might not bring ANY indictments. And... I'm glad he didn't try to shoot for the moon by over-charging in both criminality, and the number of targets. If he had done that, he might have discredited the entire investigation ala Ken Starr.

If this thing goes to trial, and the discovery phase brings even more bombshells, then the mid-terms could be ours. And if we attain a Democratic House in 2006, the flood gates will open. Please be patient, keep your eyes, ears, and mind open, and work toward that goal.

Plus... having headlines in the MSM like this, is a start:



Let me reverse the question. Is there anybody here who is old enough to remember the Watergate Scandal, that is unhappy with Friday's indictments?

:shrug:

I was old enough then, and I'm happy as hell right now.

[Syncronaut Seven]

1. I was old enough then, and I'm happy as hell right now.

I remember Nixmas too! Your absolutely right!

[WillyT]

2. Nixmas... LOL !!!

Perfect!

:yourock:

[Judi Lynn]

31. It was a magical Nixmas season.

Jolly old Saint Nix

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I was not old enough then

but I have studied the history... this smells of Watergate... and tea pot dome

Oh and here is a meme, first senior WH staffer to be convicted since GRANT.

[AngryOldDem]

4. I was around then....

...and see MANY, MANY parallels between this scandal and that.

We just need patience. Things will play out in all due time. It will not stop with Scooter Libby.

[Cleita]

5. One big difference though is that our media and press

weren't the RW propaganda outlets that they are now. Hopefully, this will get out there through other means than the MSM. Back during Watergate each step of the unraveling process was reported on the front page. Maybe if today's press sees the whole system going down, they might try to swim with the events rather than sink with the administration. Let's hope a few real reporters and journalists arise through the muck of blow-dried talking heads to report this.

I too remember the original. I worked as a bartender and my shift started at Happy Hour. The news was on the TV at that time and while this unfolded the patrons boo'ed and cheered like it was a football game. Poor Nixon, if he only knew he was boo'ed everytime he was on the screen, I think he would have resigned long before, the "I am not a crook" speech.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Yes our press is compromised

but there is where we come in... I wholly believe it that we will have to sharpen our pens.. and write, write and write soem more, letters to editors and reps

We will have to pull the Poltiicos along, and then push them... the press and the politiicans will NOT lead on this, they never have, so why should it change now? Though if the press realizes their audience has completely soured on bush, they will join us, reluctancly, ratings you know

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. Maybe you need to read about Operation Mockingbird begun in 1948....

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird>

In 1948 Frank Wisner was appointed director of the Office of Special Projects (OSP). Soon afterwards OSP was renamed the Office of Policy Coordination (OPC). This became the espionage and counter-intelligence branch of the Central Intelligence Agency. Wisner was told to create an organization that concentrated on "propaganda, economic warfare; preventive direct action, including sabotage, anti-sabotage, demolition and evacuation measures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-Communist elements in threatened countries of the free world." <3>

Later that year Wisner established Mockingbird, a program to influence the domestic and foreign media. Wisner recruited Philip Graham (Washington Post) to run the project within the industry. According to Deborah Davis (Katharine the Great): "By the early 1950s, Wisner 'owned' respected members of the New York Times, Newsweek, CBS and other communications vehicles." <4>

In 1951 Allen W. Dulles persuaded Cord Meyer to join the CIA. However, there is evidence that he was recruited several years earlier and had been spying on the liberal organizations he had been a member of in the later 1940s. <5> According to Deborah Davis, Meyer became Mockingbird's "principal operative". <6>

One of the most important journalists under the control of Operation Mockingbird was Joseph Alsop, whose articles appeared in over 300 different newspapers. Other journalists willing to promote the views of the CIA included Stewart Alsop (New York Herald Tribune), Ben Bradlee (Newsweek), James Reston (New York Times), Charles Douglas Jackson (Time Magazine), Walter Pincus (Washington Post), William C. Baggs (Miami News), Herb Gold (Miami News) and Charles Bartlett (Chattanooga Times). <7> According to Nina Burleigh (A Very Private Woman) these journalists sometimes wrote articles that were commissioned by Frank Wisner. The CIA also provided them with classified information to help them with their work. <8>

[Cleita]

15. We also had independent minded journalists then too who reported

the facts and dug for the truth and they were part of the MSM. Today, I guess we have Helen Thomas who is not allowed to ask questions anymore. Back then the CBS news was headed by Walter Cronkite who took over for Edward Murrow. Dan Rather was in the wings waiting. It would be Dan in later years, who would Questions GHW Bush on TV about his connection to Iran-Contra, and Bush irately ended the interview. I believe that he is behind the slimeing of Dan Rather about the AWOL forgeries. He waited for his revenge but he took it through his son. It seems like so many vendetta knives are being sharpened within this administration and they need to go.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. Cronkite has admitted reporting information to the CIA while on....

...overseas assignments.

As a local CBS affiliate reporter, Dan Rather claimed to have seen the shooting of JFK in Dallas but he has never been found in the films and photographs that have surfaced since November 22, 1963. It is interesting to note that Rather was assigned as the CBS White House correspondent very soon after LBJ moved into the White House.

"Independent minded journalists"? That's what they have always wanted us to think. Look at the role they've played in their reporting of the sinking of the Maine, the falsified Tonkin Gulf incident, the "babies taken from incubators" story prior to Desert Storm, and their most recent role in reporting WMDs in Iraq.

IMHO, Edward R. Murrow was probably the last "independent minded journalist" outside of Helen Thomas.

[Cleita]

28. Yes, but his legacy remained during those years until

CBS was sold to the present corporatist regime.

[WillyT]

11. Well... It Got On The Other Front Pages Eventually...

Remember, that Woodward, Bernstein, Bradley, and Katherine Graham were out on the ledge all by themselves at first. They reported stories that no other paper would cover, or repeat. Even people inside the Washington Post were very skeptical of the story and its meaning, and many thought that they should pull W & B off the story for more senior\seasoned reporters. The White House at the time even threatened Katherine Graham. I forget who said it, But somebody told Bradley that she might end up with her tit in a ringer!

Once the story got going of course, everybody else jumped on board, and it became a daily front page item on almost all newspapers.

:shrug:

[Cleita]

29. Do you think when the others jump on board this time that

it will be front page? Or do you think when they jump on board it will be the unemployment line? Maybe we should do a pool on what will happen, like a football pool. :-)

[WillyT]

36. I Think The MSM Smells Blood In The Water...

and that no matter what, they just can't resist a good train-wreck. Political, or otherwise.

:hi:

[MuseRider]

6. I was in college

and this smells sooo familiar. I am very happy. Soon this will open wide and the nasty things will all spill out. This is the drip drip moment we have all been waiting for. We got one of them, he is hanging out for all to see and what he is charged with is worse than if he had been indicted for the outing, he COVERED IT UP after he spilled the beans. They are in for a rude surprise I think.

The RW spin so far has been really stupid. It is painfully obvious that they have no facts but are totally willing to let their party break the law and then stand up for them. Party or country, that is the question. They are easy to refute when you hear the talking points come back at you. At least it might help some people to think a bit before the hammer comes slamming down.

[WinkyDink]

8. Yes, I was. Early 20's.

Congress run by Dems.
Media not a couple conglomerates.
HUGE (HUGH!!!) anti-war sentiment, up to and including the Dem nominee.

Sorry, but the late 60's/early 70's were WAY DIFFERENT TIMES.

Especially with respect to "youth culture". Then, it was all about social issues with some hedonism; now, it's all about thuggishness and total hedonism.

[Punkingal]

14. Agreed, and also....

Nixon was never fawned over by the media like Bush is. He wasn't a media darling like the Chimp is.

[WillyT]

17. You Really Think The Media Still Considers * Their Darling ???

If so.. I think it's decling, just like his poll numbers with the rest of us.

:shrug:

[Punkingal]

20. Well, yes, it is definitely declining,

but I do think they will be oh so happy to jump back on the "Popular President" bandwagon if they can.

[wookie294]

10. If Sam Ervin said in 1973: ''Our investigation is mostly over now''

... and all he found was that John Dean lied, I would say at the time that Nixmas was over and that Nixon beat the rap.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. Right. Whatever you say. Times have changed, and the less the...

...RW opposition to Fitzgerald knows, the better off we are.

But that point seems to have sailed completely over your head at about 30,000 feet.

[AntiFascist]

43. Who will be our Sam Ervin?

I guess we'll need to take over Congress first.

[wookie294]

47. Pat Fitzgerald n/t

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. I was just applying to law schools

when the break-in occurred at the Watergate. Since we had just moved to the DC area, it was noted in the Washington Post.

But, nothing came of it for a long time.

The whole matter, if you recall, did not end up in the Oval Office until John Sirice refused to accept the plumbers' guilty pleas, after reading a letter sent to him by Jim McCord, one of the plumbers.

So, the Watergate comparisons, while irresistible, are not on point. Right now, there is no one from the outside - as were the plumbers - who will be willing to break ranks and talk to the prosecutor to save his hide.

I am not happy with any of it, as I wasn't happy during the Watergate era. This is my country they're fucking with, and that makes me very, very unhappy.

Making it personal, and hoping for punishment for individuals, just clouds the more important point, which is that our country is in serious and perhaps mortal danger.

[WillyT]

24. I Hear Ya OLL !!!

"Making it personal, and hoping for punishment for individuals, just clouds the more important point, which is that our country is in serious and perhaps mortal danger."

I couldn't agree more!

But... to this:

"Right now, there is no one from the outside - as were the plumbers - who will be willing to break ranks and talk to the prosecutor to save his hide."

I'd like to say, "So far..."

:hi:

Which actually is sorta like "Right now..."

:silly:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. I doubt there's anyone "outside,"

since these folks pride themselves on loyalty and running an incredibly insular and tight operation.

Fitzgerald really is pushing boulders uphill with this one. I feel for him.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. IMHO, read the book...the movie was filled with fact-challenged...

...inaccuracies.

Additionally, Bob Woodward is not what he appears to be. A journalist that is also a Yalie, a member of a Yale secret society, a fast-track Naval officer (Yale ROTC), and the alleged breaker of the Watergate story with all of a year and a half of journalism experience raises many questions, IMHO.

[WillyT]

16. I Agree... But Who Has The Time These Days, LOL !!!

;-)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. That's what the RWs have been banking on for decades.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. Boy, did you just nail it, MLD.....

That's exactly right. They prey on our trust and on our wilful ignorance of history.

That's exactly right. Anyone who understands Watergate has a much better, much more comprehensive grasp of the dynamics currently in play in this investigation.

If anything, Watergate taught me patience, something that's in woefully - and dangerously - short supply around here these days.

[hiabrill]

19. I wasn't old enough....

Good point WillyT. Maybe I am just a little impatient for quick damning results.

[TomInTib]

21. My own little Watergate story....

I was close to being discharged from the Navy after 27 months in SE Asia. Watergate was hitting the fan and I had just returned from convalescent leave in the States. I was pretty much up to speed on Watergate- unlike my mates. If you have spent much time in the service overseas you will know what I mean.
Anyway, I was telling some of the guys about what was going on when our CPO (desk job chickenshit with no combat experience) overheard.

He said"Sailor, President Nixon is our Commander in Chief and I would follow him thru the Gates of Hell if needed">

I reply "Well I certainly hope you get the chance".

Courtmartial. Solitary, bread and water. Worth every bit of it because I got to go back to my unit and make his life holy hell.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. Courtmartial? on what basis? And how did you get your revenge?

Sounds like two interesting aspects to the tale. :)

[TomInTib]

30. Insubordination multiplied by the CIC element

Our unit Commander was an ass and just couldn't see the humor in it.
You have to put yourself in the general mood and devisiveness of the time and our superhot location (Qua Viet River, abou 1 mile South of the parallel).

I cannot really go into detail on revenge but I will tell you I spent more time in prison at Treasure Island, CA while they tried to figure out what happened to him. Remember, those were heavy times.

Actually our relationship after the Nixon incident was pretty funny until it got really nasty.

Coincidentally I live across SFBay from Treasure Island and see it occasionally.
My experiences at TI would make a great movie.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. Thanks! More power to you!

[peacetalksforall]

22. We lived in the United States of America and justice worked finally thanks

to some good people who would not accept the political and legal problems of the Nixon administration.

Now, we live in the Divided States of America and justice is being destroyed by the right wing in favor or corporations and born-agains.

The Federalist Society is actively working to rewrite the Constitution and Bill of Rights to allow corporations to evade every law and tax while it keeps lower middle and poor people in slavery.

Usurping justice and law for corporations and born-agains are their two umbrella objectives. It involves:

. Keeping us in perpetual war for the profit of a few.

. Developing a target of hate - in this decade and for decades to come (if we don't do something), our enemy will be Moslems replacing North Koreans, Communists, Nazis, North Vietnamese.

. Imposing a fundamentalist christian ideology as a method of maintaining their 27% voting base (until that time that the theft of our vote is totally transparent and the vote is abandoned by martial law). They also need that 27% and other die-hard Nixonites, Reaganites, Bushites to RULE and OWN the local-state-national civic, judicial, media world of enforcement and interpretation - from libraries and school boards to all all the courts and networks.

. Owning and taking over the earth resources of as much of the world and space as is possible which require thefts of money from billions to a few million - taken from the people.

Yes, we have the Divided States of America, however, they claim they are moral people of honor and integrity.

Please don't say no to the agenda above until you analyze their every policy in light of the simplicity of their overall agenda and/or add to it.

[Bjornsdotter]

27. Yep

I remember and I keep telling people that it is a slow process, not everything will happen in one day.

This smells like another Watergate to me.

Yes, I am VERY happy!

Cheers!

[Plaid Adder]

32. My first memory of learning to read was asking what "Impeachment" meant.

Thought it must have something to do with peaches.

I was too young to follow it, but I was around for Watergate, and I venture to say I had a pretty good Fitzmas. I look forward to future developments!

:popcorn:

The Plaid Adder

[acmavm]

35. Watergate was so much more of a problem to get off the ground. The

leaks, the denials, the firing of the federal prosecutors, the stonewalling.

Just like this, it was after an election. And just like Commander Doofus, Nixon liked to pretend there wasn't any problems.


This here thing ain't in the bag yet, but we are a far cry from being defeated. Like Commander Doofus says, it takes HARD WORK.

And what with Noe, DeLay, Abramhof, Brownie, Miller, and the rest of the cast of criminals and characters, there's just so much to work with. AIPAC, Chalabi, billions gone out of Iraq, the deficit, Downing Street Memos, the Niger forgeries. If democrats play their cards right (although they haven't been doing that so far) they have enough scandal to run these clowns right out of office.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

38. I remember a great cartoon of Nixon at a podium

Nixon was standing at a podium, the view is from the back looking at the audience. Unseen by the audience is the fact that Nixon's trousers are being shredded by a number of bugs and termites chewing them up.

This is what I feel the stage we are at now with Bushgate.

We have Libby, Rove, and Cheney all implicated by Fitzgerald.

There is also Tom DeCay, Abramoff, Noe, voting machine issues, Ken Lay trial in January, investigations about Katrina yet to come, a lot of stuff in the wings and hanging over Bush.

Bush made mistakes when things were going his way. He has always depended on grownups bailing him out in the past. Now the chickens come home to roost.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. I looked but couldn't find an online copy of the cartoon.

I'd love to find an online copy of the cartoon.

Nixon was standing at a podium, the view is from the back looking at the audience. Unseen by the audience is the fact that Nixon's trousers are being shredded by a number of bugs and termites chewing them up.

[WillyT]

40. Here's Some From Herblock !!!

More here: http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/swann/herblock/crook.html

Enjoy!!!

:hi:

[WillyT]

41. And Here's Some Time Magazine Covers For Ya !!!

Link: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/06/16/back.time/watergate/

Those... were the memories...

:bounce:

[WillyT]

42. Anybody Else ???

:shrug:

[charlyvi]

44. Yep, WillyT

I was in my early 20's--I remember watching the "Saturday Night Massacre" and wondering what the hell Nixon was thinking! I thought he had gone mad. First, Nixon ordered Atty Gen Elliot Richardson to fire Cox; he refused to do it and resigned in protest. I thought my chest would burst with pride! Then batshit crazy Nixon ordered Deputy Atty Ruckelshaus to fire Cox but he wouldn't do it either--he resigned as well!

You know who finally fired Cox? ROBERT BORK! Needless to say, when Bork was defeated for SC, I was high-fiving all over the house.

But that Saturday night, I was both afraid for my country and proud of those two men--Richardson and Ruckelshaus. Also, I came out of it hooked on politics.

On edit: Archibald Cox was the Independent Special Prosecutor; he had issued a subpoena demanding Nixon turn over the tapes. That's when Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon pretty much lost the battle and the war.

[WillyT]

45. Yep... I Remember The Saturday Night Massacre !!!

Though it wasn't until Bork's nomination that I was reminded of his role in the matter.

:shrug:

[madokie]

46. watched with same glee

loved it then, loving it now.