TREASONGATE: A Sitting President Can Be Indicted

[earth mom]

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Thursday, October 20, 2005


TREASONGATE: A Sitting President Can Be Indicted

And so can a sitting Vice President.
For a change, I'm not going to give you my own analysis. Instead, I'm going to quote arch conservative lawyer, the legal sidekick of Rush Limbaugh, the infamous Mark Levin of the Landmark Legal Foundation, aka "The Great One". Let's have a look at what he has to say, and what Rush totally agreed with, regarding the indictment of a sitting President.

<snip>

The possibility of impeachment does not immunize the president from criminal prosecution. He remains, at all times, a citizen of the United States who is answerable to the law.

<snip>


"My wife was a victim of White House sponsored espionage and the American people were the victims of White House sponsored Treason. The perpetrators should receive a life sentence or the death penalty under 18 USC 794, damn it. Oh, by the way, did you catch my comedy routine with John Stewart?"
Joseph Wilson, Neo-Con golden boy.

OK. IT'S A JOKE. But it's not very funny. Why isn't Joe Wilson making statements like the first sentence above? Because they lost control of the spin. Because they are all in on this together. Because the motive -- bitchslapping Joe Wilson -- is ridiculous considering the fall out. What could have made The White House so willing to expose themselves to criminal prosecution under multiple federal statutes? Kid yourselves not, this onion is only on the first layer.

http://www.citizenspook.blogspot.com/

:wow:

[unpossibles]

1. I want to sue the President too...

hmmm.. a class action lawsuit from Liberal America for slander and wanton destruction of property?

[lovuian]

2. Magna Carta 1215 The king is not above the law!!!

Could our consitution do any less!!!

[nashville_brook]

10. how can peeps think the big guys should be above the law. crazy. eom.

[King Coal]

3. HEY!! Trite City Bingo! Right OldLefty?

[texpatriot2004]

4. No AMERICAN is above the law. nm

[dbeach]

5. I luv the title

and right swingers said it

[Tiggeroshii]

6. His critizcizing of Wilson is unfair

Wilson's speaking up is part of the reason there began a criminal investigation in the first place."Wait two years?" Pssh.

[crispini]

7. Very interesting. First time I've read that spin on the case.

From citizenspook's earlier article:

http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/2005/08/treasongate-in-cahoots-how-white-house.html

. WOULD THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION VIOLATE 18 USC 794 KNOWING SUCH A VIOLATION COULD LEAD TO DEATH OR LIFE IN PRISON JUST TO "SMEAR" JOE WILSON?

No. They aren’t' that stupid. These are intelligent people who have procured the Executive Branch of the US Government. 18 USC 794 has put people like Aldrich Ames away for life. This is a very serious law. Nobody in the Bush administration was going to break it just to bitch slap Joe Wilson. That's the fecal toast Joe Wilson and David Corn originally served over two years ago, a meal that has been uniformly consumed by America, so please don't eat it anymore. It's a lie, and a rather bad one at that.

Focus on the penalty; death or life in prison. The motivation of a bitch slap does not fit the crime. The Bush administration must have had a greater motivation to risk prosecution under 794(b).

Furthermore, they had to know they were turning Joe Wilson into a star the liberal media would canonize. They did no harm to Joe Wilson, and they did no harm to his wife. This so called outing" scandal is actually cover for their conspiratorial treason, the betrayal of her network and the work it was doing.

Valerie Plame Wilson = Double Agent

Plame and Wilson are double agents in the "Intelligence war" going on between the treasonous Bush administration and divisions of US Intelligence and the military

However, CS's whole focus for his case is that Joe Wilson, when he speaks about the case publicly, has always referred to the possibility of prosecuting the offenders under the IIPA, which CS talks about being a "slap on the wrist" rather than the more important (and scary) Espionage Act.

You've compared the crimes of Aldrich Ames to those involved with the outing of your wife, so why aren't you pounding your fist for the special prosecutor to invoke the same law which put Ames away for life? You've never even mentioned it.

Very interesting. I suppose it would be pretty easy to find out if Wilson has in fact ever spoken about the Espionage act.

I'll have to think about this one ....

[Tigress DEM]

19. Intelligent people who think they have defeated the system get cocky.

They had the entire government basically locked down.

They didn't expect DEMS to find their balls. Ted Kennedy never shut up, but they thought he was marginalized. John Conyers kept talking and walking, but they ignored him. Boxer took 'em on and the world fell in love with little Miss Tough Stuff and shamed the congress for not having as much "balls" as the little spitfire from CA.

Protests have been going on and on. March 20, 2005 had 2 million over the country. Sept 24, 2005 was 1/2 a million n DC. Million Man March Oct 15, 2005 got 2 million in DC this year. Cindy Sheehan vigils. All over the world people have stood up. It doesn't get in the news much, but these type of activities shake up the powers that be.

They thought we were apathetic, complacent, drinking the koolaid.

They thought the press was fully bought. Almost, but a few wiggled out and during Katrina it was live TV and they pulled out all the stops and asked the pRes, "Where the hell are you? You should be here helping." Even Geraldo cried. He was on FAUX!

Jay Leno and David Letterman have taken off the gloves. Hey, if Clinton's antics provided years of comedy, my goodness, can you imagine how easy these guys lives are now? They will NEVER run out of material!

[oregonindy]

8. nail the bastard and the other treasonous members of his

culture of corruption

[nashville_brook]

9. i never believed it was a bitch-slap -- always figured it was Sibel Edmond

-type thing.

but if that were the case, seems like she'd have something to say. no?

regardless of the whole cloth, this yarn is remarkable in that it calls attention to some very interesting blind spots.

rec'd kick'd n fwd'd

:)

[nashville_brook]

11. wow! 5 votes for spooky!

:woohoo:

[Ksec]

12. Honestly, why couldnt he be indicted? He is a citizen.

And hes a criminal.

[Miss Chybil]

13. Ridiculous - about Wilson and the onion thing. Ridiculous. nt

[nashville_brook]

14. curious... why?

[Miss Chybil]

16. Why would Wilson be a part of a conspiracy to out his wife? nt

[nashville_brook]

18. good question -- anyone know if this is the point?

i haven't grokked that, but i could be wrong. i haven't read everything CS has written.

[understandinglife]

15. Interesting related article at AfterDowningStreet by Richard Mathews

Indicting a Sitting President

Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2005-10-19 16:14. Activism

By Richard M. Mathews

Precedent exists to indict a Vice President.

Vice President Aaron Burr was subject to indictments in two states while still in office. Burr stayed out of those two states to avoid prosecution.

In the case of Spiro Agnew, Solicitor General Robert Bork filed a brief arguing that, consistent with the Constitution, the Vice President could be subject to indictment and criminal prosecution. While still Vice President, Agnew plea bargained a deal in which he plead "no contest" to tax evasion. He resigned the same day he entered his plea.

For a President, there is no clear precedent one way or another. The closest is the case of Nixon. The Grand Jury reportedly wanted to indict Nixon. Prosecutor Jaworski convinced them to avoid the issue of whether the President may be indicted by naming him as an unindicted coconspirator. This was sufficient to get a subpoena for Nixon's records including the tapes. Nixon argued that the subpoena was invalid because he was not subject to indictment. The Supreme Court sidestepped the indictment issue by ruling that they did not need to answer that question in order to reach their conclusion that the subpoena was valid. United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683, 687 n. 2 (1974).

There is not a single word in the Constitution that supports a claim that the President cannot be indicted. On the contrary, the Constitution merely says this about impeachment:

Article I, Section 3, Clause 7:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Article II, Section 4:

The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Note that in the above sections the Constitution treats impeachment of the President exactly the same as impeachment of any other Officer. The only place where the Constitution treats the President differently with respect to impeachment is in that the Chief Justice sits as the presiding officer in the Senate trial of a President:

Article I, Section 3, Clause 6:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When
sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When
the President of the United States is tried the Chief Justice shall
preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of
two thirds of the Members present.

Since the Constitution treats the President identically to all other Officers ....

More at the link:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3820

I'm surprised this has not been posted by someone at DU as a separate thread because it is well referenced and well reasoned.

I admire CS's work, as well, and have cited it in more than one of my DU threads.

In any event, if Mr. Fitzgerald decides to indict Mr. Bush I think Mr. Bush had better have much better lawyers than Harry and torture boy looking after his butt (I know Jim, you just want do your Carlyle thing, but it looks like you may have to try to keep the kid out of prison).


Peace.

[DemReadingDU]

17. Recommended

very interesting, thanks