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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:47 PM
Original message
HEY: Brace yourselves...
...for the possibility that nothing will come of this.

Ugly thought, I know.

But ask yourself: How many times in the last five years have you geared up for an endgame, only to have it fizzle like a sparkler in a rainstorm?

If you had a nickel for every time you read "OMG, THIS IS IT, THEY'RE GOING DOWN!" here, if you had another nickel for every time that turned out not to be the case, how many nickels would you have?

I'd have a lot.

I know nothing more than you do. I expect indictments, particularly now that Hannah is cooperating.

But I have also reached that zen-like state where nothing surprises me about these guys, their ilk, their followers, and their lapdog media friends.

I refuse to be surprised if nothing comes of this. Try it, just in case.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ditto, wait, watch, listen and see, hopefully these days will go down in
history.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Given the depths to which these people will sink,
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 12:49 PM by Midlodemocrat
I tend to agree with you. I have been disappointed so many times, it isn't worth getting excited about anymore.

I hope and pray it goes down the way I want it to, but I'm not banking on it.

Call me cynical, I think it is just my old age.
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patrioticliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. i agree
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Law of Karma, where art thou?
But, yeah, I know Will -- steady breathing, just in case...
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. I know what you mean
But I fear if Fitzgerald simply closes up shop, it will not allow this country to heal. Things are building up, and they may very well explode. The indictments are like a pressure valve.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Amen, brother
I've been popping people's imaginary balloons here at DU for the past few weeks,and making no friends at all.

Until we know something, we know nothing. That's it. Fitzgerald has run a leak-proof investigation, something I've never witnessed in my 30 years as a Washington lawyer.

If only folks would remember what they endured after the November 2004 elections, and, worse, when the day came for the electoral college to meet and cast their votes, and nothing came from the Kerry camp.

It's entirely possible that no indictments will be forthcoming. That's just reality.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Ah, there you are. I was wondering what your thoughts were.
I personally, am ready for anything.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
50. Well,
all the good women always are, are we not?

I know what I wish, but I also know never to try to outguess a jury, grand or petit.

Time. We got time.

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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. Tell him not to get cocky, OldLeftie.
In all seriousness, I want you to know I really appreciate all of your input. We are lucky to have you on this forum. It's good to remember all of the disappointments we have endured over that past few years. We just have to remember to stay strong.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
52. Have you seen this?
I found it remarkably cheering, and on the front page of the Washington Post this a.m., no less - a paper that's trying so hard to change its sucking-up-to-Bush ways:

http://tinyurl.com/9tczt

Now, bring me your balloon......... heh heh heh

(thanks)
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm still cautiously optimistic. Why? Because I stayed out of this.
Even mentally. My curse did not taint whatever investigations were going on.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:51 PM
Original message
I expect something of this
Ordinarily, I'd be right with you Will.

Having lived in Illinois while Ryan was governor and having watched the licenses for bribes scandal unfold, all the while everybody saying Ryan would not be touched by it, I know for a fact some major players are going down on this one.

And they'll be going down hard.

Bush might escape, but he will be emasculated.

Rove may get away with just perjury and conspiracy charges.

I fully expect both Cheney and Bolton to go down big.

This is a major one, and it is not going to be pretty for these guys.

Then Fitzgerald can come back to Chicago and finish taking down Daley.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. "then Fitzgeral can come back to Chicago and finish...Delay"
I like your attitude, Walt.

They're going to make a movie about Fitzgerald one day. Who do you suggest for the lead?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
72. Daley, not Delay
:)

And Daley's a Democrat, but his administration is corrupt, so I want him taken down.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Oops! I'm not reading thoroughly again!
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 01:49 PM by FLDem5
I guess I saw what I wanted - I thought it meant the Delay/Abramoff stuff - I somehow assumed that what was you meant.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
84. As do all, who value integrity. For a hundred years, we've
dreamed about honest politics. Perhaps it's gotten so bad that we'll finally get it-at least somewhat.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. I know how you feel
I do think something will happen. Maybe not what we're all hoping for but I know whatever it is we'll all be shocked. For all we know it could go all the way up to Bush.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kind of like I felt when Pujols stepped up to the plate last night...
I hoped they would strike him out, but I wasn't investing my emotional well-being on it.
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. Something has to come of it , Will
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM by maine_raptor
It just FEELS right. Last time I felt this way, I was reading the Boston Globe on Sunday June 18, 1972, page 10. It was a small article on 5 men being arrested in Democratic National Headquarters at the Watergate the night before.

First thought upon reading it; "Nixon".
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. This does feel different
There's just something about this case. I hope we're all wrong and something big comes out of it. It will shake DC I think.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
77. Ah, there *you* are. Good to see one of the sensitives check in.
My bad feelings are gone...but I'm not necessarily sure that's a positive thing if the outcome we want is a downfall of somekind, even if it's only one administration official.
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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. I hear that....
The shocking things this administration has gotten away with -- and for so long -- have absolutely stunned me. *sigh*
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Been in that state for a while
we call it, plan for the best, (indictments) plan for the worst, cancelariton of the US Constitution, martial law, the works... oh and no indictments
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Agree! However,
don't you think this time BushCo. seems clearly rattled? This time they don't have that arrogant, machismo attitude that is so characteristic of all their previous screw ups.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Grrrrrr.
You are correct of course. This time I held off as long as I could but a couple of days ago I started to get giddy with excitement (or was it the Tequila?).

You sound just like my husband.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Difference being:
Fitzgerald is not "these guys, their ilk, their followers, and their lapdog media friends".
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. true-i've reached a comfortable detachment that does not exclude
interest in seeing all of them fry.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. nothing or something small
Wouldn't surprise me if there is more than nothing, but so little as to allow the RW to characterize it as nothing, and to go on the attack.

onenote
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for the cold slap in the face.
I needed that.

NGU.


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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. HOPE for the BEST, prepare for the WORST. We know, but....
...this one feels different. I think the dam will break.
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. Just keep watching 'em. They are bound to fall like a house of cards.
Hubris gets them all in the end. You just have to stand back and not get in the way of a good train wreck.

I fully expect that there will be indictments. Will anything come of it? Ehhh who knows. Will it wreak political damage on them? You bet! Just in time for midterm elections. If nothing else, that is what I'm waiting for.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. I am ready for anything...
in my brain, but in my heart, I will be devastated if these crooks aren't brought into the light. I am on pins and needles!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. But we've never had a prosecuter helped by a stooly
It seems that at long last the impenetrable wall of unity may have been breached.

Mordor faces serious attack from the Nazgul!

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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm waiting patiently and I'm hoping for the best but prepared for the
worst.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. LOL - you and I must be on the same wave length. See my post ^^^
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. I agree
Every time I feel myself getting all giddy, I shut down DU for a reality check, and every time I do, I realize that there aren't any indictments yet, GWB is still in the WH, and Tom Delay, Bill Frist, Rush Limbaugh and Ken Lay are still walking around as free men.
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mwdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. Zen-like state is right!
I have a dear friend from the D.C. area, in his late 60's, who just laughs whenever I try to bring the subject of indictments up. He and I both know this scenario too well.
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mattomjoe Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wish I could keep my hopes in check....
but unfortunately I tend to have that Charlie Brown Syndrome -- every time I keep thinking THIS is going to be time we kick the hell out of that football. I'm really hoping Lucy doesn't have a chance to pull it away from us this time....
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is the FIRST time we are witnessing a real GJ investigation
with REAL consequences.

I know what you're saying. I also got excited when I heard about the Downing St. memo, Dan Rather's report on TV, all the different House ethics charges against old Tom, etc! I too was disappointed each time!

BUT, there never charges brought, GJ's conveined, or Special Presecuters appointed on any of those.

I have no idea what's going to happen in the TX DeLay case. Tx is a State like no other, and I wouldn't be surprised if Tom's influence there just might get him off, but I think you're being way to pessimistic about the Fitz case. You may not see EVERYTHING you dream of, but this baby isn't going away!
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hope you're wrong ...
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 12:59 PM by Mme. Defarge
but I'm trying not to hold my breath. If the Administration were really going down, they wouldn't just be sitting around nervously waiting for indictments. Instead, they'd be wreaking havoc.

I've been around long enough to know that in the Post-Watergate era, about the only thing that will bring down a sitting President is inflation. The good/bad news is that, according to today's headlines, it's happening!
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
32. My prediction-
Bush and Cheney very carefully worked this out to get their "mission" accomplished. And having done that, they used everyone under them in a faux kamakazee attack. All of their underlings will fall like dominoes. And then they'll all be pardoned and put back in their boxes.


However, Wilson's civil suit might be that left jab from hell that they weren't expecting. I hope.
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
33. I sure wish I could argue with you
but my first thought was, been there, done that, t-shirt's in rags now. That zen-like state, no doubt.

I'm afraid of the same thing. Just like the 2004 election. I was so sure he wouldn't win reelection. But, it went down. I don't think I'll ever feel the same about America since Iraq and Katrina. It's only folks on here, and writers like you, that show it isn't over yet.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
54. You have one of those T-shirts, too?
Better hang on to it--cold winter coming up.
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. Wow, do you see how many responses he got?
I think it was a good point to make. Good one Will. Have to keep reality in perspective, and anymore our reality is a whole lot of people fighting a war against the truth. We'd better be ready to bounce back if they win another volley.

Winter. Funny. When I lived in Alaska, I learned that most people die of hypothermia in 50 some odd degree weather. No lie, exposure at what we'd consider mild, ordinarily. Not very cold at all. But thems the facts, most people die in mild weather, when they're exposed and don't know what to do. So, they say it's going to be a mild winter, but I know it doesn't have to be very cold to be dangerous, and I know a lot of people are going to be cranking down the thermostats this winter. So, even with a mild winter, this is a scary winter, to me. That's what I keep thinking, when they're talking about the mildness helping. It will help, but, it doesn't have to be that cold. Just winter is enough.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #76
89. I remember Alaska from the mid sixties.
If your car (if you were rich enough to own one) quit, the standing order was to stay with it. Your chances of survival, should you be dumb enough to abandon the car, went way, way down.You can't walk two miles back to town at fifty below.
Land your plane, drain the oil quickly while it would still pour, bring it and the battery indoors with you. Add a pint of gas to the oil so it would stay liquid when pouring it back into the sump and until the engine warmed up, evaporating the gas. Anything else indicated a death wish.

Will is often the voice of calm and reason, though sometimes mistaken, and is highly respected, deservedly so.
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. OH yes
and I remember the oil pan heater, engine block heater and interior heater assembly we had to rig up for the cars. To plug into the hbo's that sometimes were lined up in the parking lots like speakers at an old drive theater? I'll never forget the winter I saw that was stuck at -58 for, I swear, weeks. Strange life, wasn't it? Different. ha I remember getting in the car, at -20, and feeling like it was warm, compared to the outside -58. And the square tire effect? TOO odd :)

I can't imagine flying there, not that I can imagine flying anyway, but as I recall, the best pilots came from the area. Especially the one's that landed those planes on the island base. I swear, when I was on the island for a couple of weeks, in the space of about half an hour, I saw blowing snow, and ten minutes of bright sun, and it did that again a few time, and then the real blowing snow started. It was really something different!

And...I imagine if the greedy monsters keep winning elections, we'll be some of the last people to remember how the area was. It's sad, but, there's so much to be sad about anyway.
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. I know - sadly you are right.
Its been like this for at least a year now for me. I am getting used to feeling like pond scum........ :(
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
36. With Hannah, Fitz can tie
it all together with Chalabi, Miller, and the whole false case of going to war beyond just the yellowcake issue.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. But will he?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. I believe he has the latitude,
I guess it depends on his will.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
83. Why wouldn't he?
Really? We all have tied all of this together with the evidence that we've put together. He has the same info and more. If he was in bed with them all, if this was Gonzales or an Asshcroft puppet we'd know there was no hope that he'd protect them all but Fitzgerald isn't one of them. Why would an outsider have this long protracted investigation already damaging to the * administration if he wasn't for real?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
87. Will, go read some Chicago papers from 2002
Look at what Fitz did when every Illinois pubndit spewed how Ryan would never be connected to teh scnadal.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. Be prepared for anything. Distrust highs almost as much as lows.
Be prepared for anything. Even if there are major indictments and we want to celebrate Bush's problems, it will also mean that they have harmed the US. There may be no indictments at all, and no report, just a brief press conference. There may be a few minor indictments, a 9 day wonder and then it's all over. There may be a medium set of indictments and somebody like Libby goes down and then it's over. There may be major indictments, immediate resignations, major spins, Hussein's trial to suck up oxygen, and then a pardon for a treasured associate slipped in when it will make the least fuss.

I endorse Zen-like detachment. It ain't over till it's over, and the way these things are so complicated and intertwined and have multiple unfolding ramifications, it just keeps on rolling. One election blurs into the next.

Zen-like detachment makes cool determined unwavering focus easier.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. Actually the Hannah thing doesn't bode well to me
Why am I thinking this will end up isolated to Cheney's underlings and Cheney/ Rove and company will remain unscathed?

Oh yeah--I remember why, because this ALWAYS HAPPENS! UG!

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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
39. I'm ready for that outcome -- I really am.
But hope is what keeps us going. If this were to fizzle out, I'd find something else to pin my hopes on.

If you need another dose of encouragement, watch this PBS video about Fitzgerald. As I posted last night, if Fitzgerald would tenaciously go after the Chicago city hall for hiring fraud practices & the Illinois governor for doling out favors to friends for money/vacation, we can expect him to go after those who concocted an illegal war.

Here's the video: Fitzgerald's Background

Keep your chin up! I believe this is it.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'm way ahead of ya.
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. At the risk of being flamed for saying this ---
I began bracing myself for this over the past two days. My plans are to move outside the states if the right people are not indicted. I hadn't searched for Canadian real estate since around the time of inauguration, but have ran a few searches recently in preparation of no indictments.

Honestly, my feelings are that this MAY be the last hope we have. I was flamed post election for talking of moving out - I stayed and fought like so many said to do. I am tired.

Please, Fitz, do your best to indict as many as you can on as many charges as possible ---- that has became my thoughts of late.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
85. Some stay some leave
that is no reason to be flamed. Just saying. I am staying. I hope you find what you need to be happy.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. True. Maybe nothing will happen.
But ya know what?

The exhilaration and hope that I've seen on this board is worth it.

It's a hell of a lot better than the gloom and doom that prevailed here right after Dubya's second inauguration.

Hope.

It's what keeps us going.
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RepublicanElephant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
44. maybe, but at least....
...the terror alerts will still run on schedule.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. Very true Will and this is why I haven't bought the
champagne yet, let alone uncork it.

However, eventually the road must stop somewhere, and they have to run out of road. I have seen many changes in my little corner of the universe here. Mostly all the Bush/Cheney bumper stickers and lawn signs have disappeared although the Kerry/Edwards ones are still visible. I even saw a car pasted with signs stating that Bush was a liar and the driver, a self-described Republican Christian, regretted ever voting for him. He had all of this written on the back of his SUV. So little glimmers of hope are popping up all over the place.

My opinion is that our elected officials aren't going to do much, but we the people will do what they can't or are too afraid to do.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. As an Astros fan, I've learned to live with disappointment.
But I haven't given up hope.
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i_c_a_White_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. that was a tough loss last night
my condolences :shrug:
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. off topic, but wasn't that last night's game just like the 2004 election?
We pull ahead and work really hard to do it against all odds. Dems are popping champagne bottles open getting ready for the victory. Then....well you know the rest of the story. :cry:
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. Yup, someone claimed it was crooked!
My barista this AM said it's all a plot. More tickets sold, more TV ads.

The game? Probably not crooked. The election? Let me think about that.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. I've never expected an "endgame" type of scenario before.
And honestly- if nothing happens here, I'll assume it's because the evidence isn't there and I'll move on. Fitzgerald seems like a real pro, and his investigation doesn't stink of a whitewash, as all the previous ones did.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
51. I may be a pessimist, but I don't think anything
will come of it. Indictments maybe, but these guys will walk.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. I agree -- Been trying to ignore it as much as possible
The roller coaster gets stomach churning after a while.

I'm trying to maintain my equilibrium by assuming nothing will come of it, and we'll still be where we'd be if somebody hadn;t flapped their yap about the wrong person.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. It is always to one's advantage to ride the horse in the
direction he's going.
The point is the ride, not the end. Bring it on!
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
55. If it was nothing.
We would have already read the report. Just how long do you investigate only to say nothing happened? Six months? Twelve months? Eighteen? The longer the investigation lasts, the less likely that it will be for naught. The notable exception is the Clinton business, but we all know that that was more political assassination than criminal investigation. I think we can safely rule out political assassination as a motive here.

Those who claim that nothing will happen don't seem to be paying much attention to events or to what little information is leaking out. Indeed, the dearth of information is in itself important information. Nothing about Fitz's investigation smells like "no action will be taken". The drip-drip-drip of small revelations speaks loudly that not only is Fitz taking on the tiger, he has it firmly in his control.

Something important this way comes. Soon.

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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
57. Whenever I feel this way, I always think to myself:
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 01:29 PM by yodermon
Ommmmmmmmmm.

Eight Redacted pages.

"Voluminous classified filings." --Judge Tatel, p.72 of 83, ibid.

"the Special Counsels showing decides the case" --Judge Henderson, p. 36 of 83, ibid.

"In sum, based on an exhaustive investigation, the special
counsel has established the need for Millers and Coopers
testimony. Thus, considering the gravity of the suspected crime
and the low value of the leaked information, no privilege bars
the subpoenas."
--Judge Tatel, p. 81 of 83, ibid.

~~~nirvana~~~

Ommmmmmmmmmmm.

(ngu)

Edited to fix judge attribution. Ommm.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Gravity is such a nice word. It carries a lot of weight.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
59. Well if terror alerts are any indication....
looks like something is going to happen. Maybe it'll be revealed that Miers was Poppy and Babs lost lil baby...left on the doorstep to be raised by the Dratches along with her sister Rachel...

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maximovich Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
62. Come On! The Red Sox Won A World Series!
anything can happen.... I think.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
63. Call me crazy but I think it's different this time.
They had the ability to control all the executive branch and the legislative branch of the federal government and the SCOTUS but that may not be enough. Sure they've been packing the federal courts even with recess appointments but 5 years is not enough time to get everyone who isn't a devoted neo-con out of power completely. America just might be saved by just one prosecutor with the help of ordinary citizens and wouldn't that be just beautiful? Not just in the case of defeating the evil warmongerers in the direct sense but that the true spirit of America, the spirit of a representative Republic by the people for the people, the beauty and wisdom reflected in the Constitution could survive and ultimately prevail? That would mean that this grand experiment in Democracy will have passed its harshest test to date.

It's not about Democrats vs. Republicans but the survival of the Constitution. It's not politics but the actual process of democracy that could correct this horrible wrong or at least act as the catalyst.

I've been let down before and I'll survive and move forward despite whatever outcome of this grand jury. Yet, in my bones I think we've got a shot of the entire house of cards collapsing from their own hubris. I remain optimistic.
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
64. Oh Poo, you ol' grump!
I like to live in the momment and right now this is feeling preety good! If it all falls apart then I'll deal with that then but right now.......
Don't dump on my momment!
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
65. Thats why I ...
haven't gotten excited and I believe the rethugs have something up there sleeves. There are too many of them having problems, they will do something maybe start or plant a case on the Dems and then shift the focus, like these terror threats no telling with these thugs.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
66. We're up against a ruthless, power-drunk cabal that will do anything
to hold onto all they've stolen and plundered over the past 5 years.

I'm hopeful that justice will prevail, but I'm not banking on it.
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
68. I disagree with you.
All those other times Bush's approval wasn't at 39%. So...he's already going down. Everything he has ever done is bringing him down. We wanted him to drop like an acme safe....but...it's happening painfully slow.

Time will tell.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
69. I would rather live with the disappointment later
then to not live with hope right now. Treason was committed and we all suspect conspiracy so I'm putting a lot of faith into our system that the bastards will pay.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
70. I have fairly low expectations
I've always only expected an Iran-Contra-esque result. Some will take the fall, Bush will skate, and pardons will be given. However, in this case we are dealing with a very unpopular President so I do think the stench will have an affect on '06 and '08. I would only be thoroughly disappointed if not a single indictment came down but that seems highly unlikely. They've done this dance before. They know they have to give SOMEONE up - the only question is who it will be.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
71. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.
Someone's going to get in trouble. All the leaks and reports of the grand jury proceedings, particularly the extension, point to the likelihood that Fitzgerald is onto something.

I think someone is getting indicted. Maybe Rove cut a deal and threw it back at Cheney and Libby, but someone is going to get indicted, I guarantee it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
74. That zen-like state
might allow one to enjoy the process, without concern about the "results."
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Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
75. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I do think there is a shadow
government, or at least a group who pulls strings, gets things done, and can influence people. I would not be at all surprised if "someone" gets to Fitzgerald, and threatens him or his family. This will end with some minor flunky taking the fall.

:tinfoilhat: :banghead: :shrug:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
78. Well, there are Cheney resignation rumors flying
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
79. Either way, look at how much extra fiber we've been ingesting
by eating all this popcorn!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
80. We don't know - until we see some evidence ourselves. We have heard
much. But that does't mean much.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
81. Your exactly right
We can't get our hopes up too high.
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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
82. And ten to one DeLay will walk and so will Frist
For christsakes if you can fix national elections in this country, have the Supreme's decide Georgie is Pres and nobody NOBODY says shittin' boo, what makes you think any of these Princes of Darkness will pay?? The Princes of Darkness rule and prosper in this nation.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
86. These are the days to pay attention to details
I will keep visualizing Indictments and Impeachment
though . I must remain positive .
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SeattleRob Donating Member (893 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
88. I agreee - but....
The difference here - with all that has transpired in the past is big.

First off, this seems to be a power struggle between the CIA and the Neocons. Seriously, would you want to be in a power struggle against the CIA?

Secondly, the establishment press is now reporting critically on the chimperor and his cohorts. These people are survivors who like rats, will jump off a sinking ship.

I am cautiously optimistic that what we are seeing is the inevitable fall of the house of Bush. Until something concrete happens, I will reserve my judgement.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
90. if while prone to titanic fates, there may be no juggernaught...
on the scene with so near a relationship to apathy itself as this 'american life' we live imo, you may therefore be right, though of course my hope is that you are so very wrong, WillPitt
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
91. Yea, been doing that a lot lately
Gotten to the point to where I don't give a damn what they do around the beltway anymore. This global warming thing really don't care what party you are from and it looks like it's coming


http://www.bay13.net/pics/desktop/800
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
92. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Excuse me?
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
93. Ha! Look at how everyone wants to argue. I agree with you, though. nt
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
96. Yes, They hold all the cards. We hold none.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 06:39 AM by cassiepriam
They have the entire govt, treasury, media, slime machine, and a huge network of people willing to do anything for them.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. Good point.
Every time I hope, something comes to smash it. I wish I could get just the right outlook so I don't have emotional roller coaster rides.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. The correct view: it will be a long shot if justice is served.
Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst.
The con artists are in charge and will not let go, too much money, power and ego at stake.

The Repug motto: Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

THE BEST CRIMINALS DON'T BREAK THE LAWS, THEY MAKE THEM
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
97. probably a good idea
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:41 AM by marions ghost
to pay attention to one's emotional state right now.

It feels like we are crowded together on a precipice hoping for a ray of sunlight to break through. Realistically we could get thunder and lightning instead. Whatever the news, this will be a test. Whether this country has the resilience to come back from this manmade national disaster, I'm not sure. The fact that a large percentage of people want to impeach the principals at least indicates that many have seen the light. I take hope in that. We who have followed this closely want so much to believe in the judicial system...and to have the chance to turn this ship around. If nobody gets indicted we will have the right to be seriously upset--because we have invested heavily in seeing the truth come out... This country needs a real catharsis, a sweeping away of the thieves, liars, and their henchmen and a complete overhaul of the system to prevent it's ever being sabotaged again. We deserve that opportunity.

See you in the aftermath.

:grouphug: :kick: :grouphug: :kick: :grouphug: :kick:
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
98. Actually I will be more surprised if something were to come of this
They hold all the cards. All of them...Why should we expect them to indict themselves? Not only will there be no indictments but no explanation as to what even occurred. It will all just disappear as if it never happened but we know it did and Americans will continue to die because of it. My only hope is more Republicans die because of it than Democrats but that is also a pipe dream. They have pretty much dampened my enthusiasm to say the least.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
100. More to the point...
How many nickels would Raw Story have if thousands of people clicked on every "OMG, THIS IS IT, THEY'RE GOING DOWN!" teaser?

:)
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