Stripes letters: on "Under God" in the pledge

[lebkuchen]

In the beginning ...

This is to the writer of “Pledge ruling disturbing” (letter, Sept. 22). The Pledge of Allegiance in its original form did not contain the phrase “under God.” That phrase was added during the McCarthy era when the threat of communism was at its peak.

Staff Sgt. Marissa Almstrom
Ramstein Air Base, Germany


... there was no ‘under God’

Seeing “One nation under God” (letter, Oct. 4) made me have to write in.

The letter writer states that the U.S. was founded on “One nation under God.” Actually, that line was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, almost 200 years after the U.S. was founded. The U.S. was founded on the basis of religious tolerance, and that includes the right to not practice any religion at all, and to also not have it forced on you. We are a democracy, not a theocracy.

She goes on to say that “Our personal rights come from God.” Really? I always assumed my rights came from the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, which don’t even mention God.

The letter writer feels that removing “under God” from the pledge will cause our children “to be taught to believe in nothing” and asks “how can our children be taught to think for themselves if our God is removed from our schools?” and that removing “under God” will lead to the destruction of the United States.

Well, excuse me, but it seems you are talking about “your” God, not mine. My children have no problem thinking for themselves without someone forcing their religious beliefs on them. Religion is a personal choice, and parents can teach their beliefs to their children at home or in churches.

Simply, I do not wish for my children to have to recite “under God” in a public school that I help fund, and I feel that as a tax-paying veteran, that is my right.

The future of our nation rests on our children’s shoulders, and I can assure you mine are law-abiding, honest and trustworthy citizens, all without having to recite “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Sgt. James Dylan
Logistics Support Area Anaconda, Iraq


Practice religion ... or not

The United States is a democracy, not a theocracy (“Pledge ruling is sad,” letter, Oct. 4). Although it was founded by those seeking freedom from religious oppression its founders were astute enough to separate government and religion. Even if we decide to trace our country’s roots according to the letter writer, it remains clear that religion was not the foundation of this country.

There are no direct references to religion in the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution makes only one reference to religion in Article 6, Clause III. Even when this clause is combined with the Establishment clause of the First Amendment, all that the Founding Fathers provided were safeguards to religious liberty by protecting religions and religious convictions from government interference or control.

Additionally, there appears to be a common misconception regarding the Pledge of Allegiance that is conveniently overlooked by those seeking to imbue religion into government. The pledge was originally written in 1892 by a Baptist minister, Francis Bellamy, who specifically did not include the phrase “under God.” The phrase “under God” was added in 1954 after a campaign by the Catholic organization Knights of Columbus encouraged Congress to do so in order to respond to the threat of the atheist and communist Soviet Union.

What differentiates the United States from countries such as Iran or Saudi Arabia is that we allow individuals to practice, preach and proselytize any or no religion. According to our president, one of the reasons we are here in the Middle East is to help spread democracy, which includes the freedom to practice or not practice a religion. The best way to spread democracy is to be the “shining beacon” at home.

To quote Thomas Jefferson “… religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god. …” Let’s not change that, or rewrite history for that matter.

First Lt. Adrian Markocic
Camp Arifjan, Kuwait


Keep God to yourself

I’ve read the letters to the editor blaming atheists for the recent court decisions regarding the Pledge of Allegiance. One letter writer (“One Nation Under God,” letter, Oct. 4) advised everyone to “...stand up for something.” Well, I am.

I am an atheist. I bet your reaction proves my point — that you are just as offended by my saying that as we are every time you force your religion on us. The Religious Right wants us to keep our views to ourselves. All we’re asking is you do the same. Keep your God to yourself.

The original pledge was written in 1892 and made no mention of God. Not until 1954, did Congress add “under God.” The pledge then became a public prayer. The First Amendment states, “Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion.” Look at what the U.S. accomplished from 1776-1954 without “under God” recited publicly everyday.

For those who say atheists are making a mockery of our religious heritage, consider the following quotes

Thomas Jefferson: “I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature.”

John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which states: “The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

James Madison: “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”

Benjamin Franklin: “In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by lack of it.”

And finally, ask your school-age children what the pledge means to them, since they are the ones forced to recite it. I bet they don’t know what it means. It’s our job to teach our children morals and values, not the schools’ and certainly not the government’s.

Tech. Sgt. Mark Mastrorocco
Naples, Italy

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=32130

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I'm glad to know

that some of our military people know their history and understand what is the foundation of our nation.

[rockymountaindem]

2. While that's refreshing to see

I can't say I'm surprised. A lot of people I know who enlisted in the military are skeptical young people who are very patriotic but not exactly "pro-establishment". One of the most sarcastic, ascerbic people I know (a great friend and cool guy) is now a Marine. Others are just regular Joes and Janes who want money for college or other benefits and don't subscribe to either religious belief or strong patriotism.

The people who went to the AF Academy, on the other hand, they're the religious conservative ones.

[sallyseven]

5. I went through Grammar School,

Jr. High School and High School and never said under god in the pledge of Allegiance. It wasn't in there. I remember when they put it in and I though how dumb is that. We are having a hard time and the war is just over, is that all they have to do????

[rockymountaindem]

8. The fundies always talk about "taking God out of schools"

I asked my dad, who is probably your age and grew up in Philadelphia, whether or not he ever had class prayers in school. Of course, the answer was no. Same for my mother who grew up in the LA area.

How can we "take God out of schools" when it was never there to begin with. Although, I suppose the situation might be different in the south and midwest.

[jody]

3. Those LTTE will shock some who post implying all troops are a

bunch of right-wing, uneducated, fundies.

:toast: to Staff Sgt. Marissa Almstrom, Sgt. James Dylan, First Lt. Adrian Markocic, and Tech. Sgt. Mark Mastrorocco.

[Dhalgren]

4. Refreshing LTTEs. Especially coming from the soldiers

indentured to the Bush family. I am glad to hear this kind of real Americanism in the ranks...

[Az]

6. Excellent post

recommended.

[Lugnut]

7. I remember when it was changed

I was 9 years old and in 3rd grade. When I learned the pledge "under God" wasn't there.

[bobbieinok]

15. I remember when it was changed; I was in jr high......told my students thi

this

also told them.....'You don't know that what I said is true; you just know that I said it. At the very least, you now know you should look up if the phrase was always there and/or when it was added.'

[progressoid]

9. Why do they hate America? - Sorry, someone had to say it.

I'm sending this the my RW M-I-L. She eats that "under gawd" crap up with a spoon.

Thanks for the link!

[malmapus]

10. Recommending

Will admit that I am ignorant on this topic, I had no idea when the phrase "under God" was added in, always just assumed it was always there.

Now I know.

[Peace Patriot]

13. Here's something else. The man who wrote the pledge was a...

SOCIALIST!

[ContraBass Black]

16. GASP!

Blasphemy! Hide the children!

[Warren Stupidity]

11. You know what? There is hope! EOM.

[unblock]

12. those who want "under god" in the pledge are not celebrating god

instead they are celebrating governmental coersion.

they are encouraging people to come to a believe in god through indoctrination, intimidation, and brainwashing rather than through faith.

they are undermining exactly what they claim to achieve.

they are taking the faith out of religion and replacing it with compulsion.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

20. excellent point

never thought of it that way, but you're right.

[intheflow]

14. On kids not knowing what the pledge means.

Here's a little version of the pledge I just worked up based on various punchlines I found online about kids not knowing the pledge:

My friends are leeches, in a bag
of the United States of America
And to the republic for Richard Stands.
One Nation underground
With liver tea and juice it's for all!

:silly:

Great post. I nominated because this proves one need not say "under God" to be patriotic. :patriot:

[Vektor]

17. Excellent letters!

Well thought out, and well written. Thanks for this post. Kicked and recommended.

[Solly Mack]

18. Not surprised

:)

[really annoyed]

19. Excellent

:)

[malmapus]

21. Couple more in today's Letters

Common misinterpretation

If the writer is disturbed by the court’s ruling (“Pledge ruling disturbing,” letter, Sept. 22), I am more disturbed by his common misinterpretation of atheism.

Removing “phrases and monuments” from public buildings does not say the government is sponsoring atheism. If the government did, we would have a big monument saying “Your God does not exist!”

Removing such statements does not offend anyone except those who care to impose their religion upon others.

Not all our Founding Fathers were Christians. One of the most important ones, Thomas Jefferson, was deist. Most would be shocked to find what that entails.

The laws of our country are not based on the Ten Commandments, because if it were so, people from other countries such as China, India and Saudi Arabia would have never survived this long since the Ten Commandments are not exactly popular in those countries. But yet, for some reason, they, too, frown upon murder, adultery, theft, taking their God’s name in vain, etc. American law has nothing to do with religion, it is just common sense.

Spc. Christian Truong
Forward Operation Base O’Ryan, Iraq



Let the stoning begin

We are all born atheistic; theism is learned. It is the extent of our theism, not our atheism, that is the query. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in a deity/deities. One can be a Christian (theist) and also be atheistic toward other deity/deities.

Occidental Christians have chosen the word “atheist” to pertain to only their deity, as they believe there is only one deity. It is a distorted use of the word “atheist.”

The U.S. Constitution, from which our local-state-federal laws are derived, makes no mention of the Judeo-Christian deity for a good reason. The scribes of the Constitution, regardless of their personal beliefs, knew the dangers of mixing church and state.

If one feels the Ten Commandments should be posted, then by all means do so. But also post the punishments for breaking the commandments and enforce those punishments. Let the stoning begin!

For those who would prefer to live in a theocratic nation, might I suggest they simply moved to Iran.

Claudia Johnston
Neuhausen, Germany

[lebkuchen]

23. Thanks. Here's the URL

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=32147

for archiving purposes.

[flygal]

22. Thanks Lebkuchen

We're moving to a military town soon and I was dreading getting right-wing fundie crap everywhere I turn - this gives me a little more positive outlook.