Could Progressives and DLC types coalesce around the following:

[Perky]

The Democratic Party needs to be seen not at the moralist party but as the party that defends the pursuit of the American Dream AND the party that makes it more attainable for everyone.

I am talking in general terms here ( we die when we try to define things) just as way of branding who we are as political position in 2006 and 2008?

[blm]

1. Good, honest, competent GOVERNANCE that doesn't favor crony capitalism

at the expense of the welfare and the good of the entire country.

[Perky]

2. Do you honestly think

that a motif that is anti-capitalism is winnable?

[dcfirefighter]

3. It doesn't have to be explicitly anti-capitalist

Merely pro-work.

Our tax & financial systems favor capital over labor. Keep free markets & noninterventionist government, but let labor compete with capital on an even field, and make owners pay for holding land and resources.

Think of it this way:

Wal-marts and other big box stores outcompete small mom & pop stores, and it's not just because of some economy of scale. It's because at a Wal-mart, the customer does so much of the work that would otherwise have to be done by paid (and taxed) labor. The customer drives to the walmart, rather than having a teamster deliver goods to the local store. The customer wanders the shelves rather than having a stockboy retrieve something from the storeroom. The customer loads his car and delivers the goods to his home, rather than having the deliveryman do it. Each one of those employees faces at least a 15.3% payroll tax against his labor. 15.3% is a lot. Remove that tax, and labor becomes that much more competitive.

[blm]

6. Anti capitalism - NO. Anti CRONY-capitalism - YES.

BIG difference.

[JAbuchan08]

4. It's not anti-capitalism

it's anti-corruption and anti-cronyism. I hate to flame you, but the freedom to make money is not the most important freedom in America. As many people have said "your freedom to swing your fists ends at my nose."

[blm]

8. Reread my post. I specify CRONY capitalism.

Crony capitalism as a form of government favoritism is vastly different capitalism.

[JAbuchan08]

22. I was addressing the above post

and actually defending your post. I thought that was clear.

[blm]

9. REREAD the post. Anti CRONY-capitalism.

Specifically, a crony-capitalism that is FAVORED by government OVER sound decisions for a healthy capitalist economy.

[Chan790]

5. No

I'd say unlikely. The internicene rift in the Democratic tent is not easily bridged...many of the progressives view the DLC as "as bad as the GOP" and many DLCers view progs as "more interested in defending their issues than winning". In neither case is it all or even most, but a vocal fraction. (perhaps a minority but again possibly as much as 50%) In any case, even as a die-hard progressive, I can't say that either of the above memes is true. What is true is that you're never going to be able to get either excited about the other's candidates. The overview is great, but what it means specifically to each is in direct conflict.

[Mr_Spock]

20. Thanks for the optimistic view.

I can see why a coalition will never be obtained. I always get the impression that it's all or nothing from a few hardliners on DU - and it ruins it for people who want to get out from under the cloud of the Republicans - we need a big tent, not a bunch of self-centered ass-holes...

[Pithy Cherub]

7. No. Was the Iraq War moral?

The Iraq War is morally wrong on so many levels that if one says they voted for it and have strong values for the American people, it practically invites hypocrisy charges.

[Perky]

13. But who would level the charge??

Are lefty going to beat up DLC types on this front? ALl that reallsucceeds in doing is pulling the voting lefties into their coulmen when they were probably already there. THere really is not much to gain by bashing moderates

Truth be told all politicians are hyporcrites on one issue or another.

[Pithy Cherub]

16. Everyone who believes that morality is important.

The DLCers that wish to remain united with Bush on the War and ALL that entails, are free to stay in that morality mess with him.

[Perky]

21. SO what you are saying is that..

You would rather lose with a progressive then have a moderate Dem as your rep if he voted for the war?

[markus]

10. I think you need to seperate DLCers (bad) from moderates (OK)

It's a matter of making clear that the DLC as an organization sucks, and is effectively an attempt by corporate America to sabotage the Democratic Party.

If someone says "I think Al From is the true spiritual leader of the Democratic Party", as far as I'm concerned there about one degree to the rational from Rush Limbaugh.

But people who think that some of the nonsense eminating from the DLC make sense aren't intrinsically a lost cause, any more than Bush voters are intrinsically a lost cause.

They need to be presented with the hard facts, and asked why they would continue to believe such nonsense?

I think once a lot of moderates see progressives winning at any level are going to jump on the bandwagon. They're not terribly happy at being economically raped by energy companies, or about the war in Iraq, or anything else that pisses us off as well.

They've just bought the right wing spin about the right of center shift. It's not a fatal condition. But the way to win is economic populism. If you really buy the DLC view that Corporations Are Good For You, you're never going to be with us.

If you're interested in winning elections so that average working people are no longer being economically and politically marginalized, then we have to figure out how to get together and win with progressive candidates.

Becuase, frankly, a lot of us are done with being taken for granted by the party.

[blm]

12. Al From should not be allowed to speak for the DLC. He doesn't even

articulate their actual positions as an organization.

He gets unnecessarily bombastic at all the wrong times.

If DLC wants unity in the party, then they should get a wiser voice who knows how to speak optimistically and with forward thinking goals while reaching out to those further to the left.

From should be silenced.

[Perky]

15. LIke Bill Clinton or Al Gore?

[blm]

18. heh...Anyone on the furthest left of the DLC would be the better voice to

find common cause with the progressives. Bill Clinton has the ability to do it, but too often doesn't take advantage it.

Gore and Kerry certainly have spent time listening to the far left and preserving credibility with it. Gore more so in recent years after breaking some of his links to the centrists.

[Perky]

14. AAAAARGGGGHHHHHH

That position is precicely what I am trying to avoid. It is fantasy at best to think that moderates will be attracted to a "progressive" message and leader.


WHen was the last time A progressive acttually won the WH?

The fundamental problem is that the moderate voter and the middle class voters decide on bread and butter issues. DO I trust this guy to be fair on taxes and help me protect my way of life?

Democrats have NEVER had an effective respose to "Tax and SPend Liberalism" except to say We only want to tax the highest income earners and fat cats while the GOP wants to piss on the poor.

That message does not appeal to the middle because it comes across as being more for the poor and not for the middle class who aspires to make it to the highest tax bracket.

We alwayes lose on taxes with a liberal message.

It's the "share's my values" question. And the GOP does a very good job on portraying DEMs as not doing that.

[Tactical Progressive]

11. The Democratic party is the moral party!

Why would we want to eschew that?

And cede the meme to the propaganda of the party of personal and political corruption in the process?

Democrats should start talking about how we are the moral party and the Republicans are not. Shying away from that is the WRONG direction, which we've been letting them get away with for as long as I can remember.

[bloom]

17. The basics have been laid out

And I think they make good sense:

Congressional Progressive Caucus - The Progressive Promise

1. Fighting for Economic Justice and Security in the U.S. and Global Economies

2. Protecting and Preserving Civil Rights and Civil Liberties

3. Promoting Global Peace and Security



http://www.congressionalprogressivecaucus.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5019481&mesg_id=5019481

[Armstead]

19. Check out this related thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5022876&mesg_id=5022876